Posted February 8, 20232 yr Incoming! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 20232 yr Maybe the Caraustar property? I know KJP hinted at a development there in another thread a few days ago.
February 8, 20232 yr Resurrecting plans to build that 25story apartment tower on the viaduct??? One could only hope lol
February 8, 20232 yr The creativity displayed here when we get one of these incoming bomb notices is something to behold!
February 8, 20232 yr I'd love to hear something is being done with the CMHA Riverview Towers building.
February 8, 20232 yr Intro Phase II and Bridgeworks. Bridgeworks finally gets financed when they cave to pressue and agree to build a giant skywalk connecting it with Intro II.
February 8, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, zbaris87 said: You guys are all wrong... Think a little further to the south Is the Pearl property actually getting developed? Or that mixed use rehab project across from Intro we haven't heard anything about in forever
February 8, 20232 yr Now that we’ve started whittling it down I guess the speculation game isn’t as fun, but someday I would like to see something across the street from where Treo is now.
February 8, 20232 yr Or if I would’ve actually looked at that wonderful site layout that @RMBposted above, my dreams may be a little closer to reality than previously imagined, lol.
February 8, 20232 yr 6 minutes ago, ELaunder said: Now that we’ve started whittling it down I guess the speculation game isn’t as fun, but someday I would like to see something across the street from where Treo is now. This is already in the works so doesn't qualify as the mystery project. Nvm, this is across 25th from the project that's in the works by Knez on the APL land. Edited February 8, 20232 yr by dastler
February 8, 20232 yr Author Sorry this is taking longer than I suspected. The article is mostly done. Just waiting for quotes and the OK to publish. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 20232 yr Author Ohio City development to expand south of tracks By Ken Prendergast / February 8, 2023 Opportune Development LLC, an affiliate of ARPI LLC, is seeking to build a three-building project called Hub 27 one block west of West 27th Street and south of the railroad tracks in Cleveland’s Clark-Fulton neighborhood. While there has been much development activity on the east or Tremont side of West 25th south of the tracks, this is the first major development to push south of Ohio City into the Clark-Fulton side of West 25th. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2023/02/08/ohio-city-development-to-expand-south-of-tracks/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 20232 yr I wonder if they'll keep the public tv or the public art around...sidenote this was a sleeper of a street - I was jealous of those houses when I first biked over that way.
February 9, 20232 yr This development is an important inflection point for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which being upward pressure on rents and land prices in the lower income area stretching between Lorain and Clark. With this new grocery store ~0.7 miles away from CentroVilla25 (another upcoming grocery store) and the Westside Market, respectively, the surrounding neighborhood within a 15-minute walk of this stretch of West 25th is suddenly going to become a lot more attractive for a lot more people. Also, this announcement makes me feel like a potential redevelopment of this industrial building on West 25th could be lurking around the corner, especially with Treo going up across the street. If they figured out a way to create an entrance from the West 25th Street bridge, it would no doubt make the stretch from Lorain to Clark infinitely more interesting from a pedestrian perspective. Either way, this is great news - will be fun to watch how things unfold down this stretch over the coming years.
February 9, 20232 yr I'm happy for the development but That's an awful lot of parking spaces.Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
February 9, 20232 yr Author @ASP1984 There has been a lot of interest in that building lately. And right across the tracks is a vacant 1.3-acre property owned by Jason Lin's HCI Inc. I'm told he has a buyer for it who wants to develop it but I don't know who the buyer is. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 9, 20232 yr Author Article updated and corrected to note that the site is actually in Clark-Fulton. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 17, 2024Sep 17 Author Two apartment buildings in Hub 27’s first phase By Ken Prendergast / September 17, 2024 A revised plan is moving forward to fill in more of the development gap along West 25th Street between Cleveland’s booming Ohio City neighborhood to the north and the growing La Villa Hispana community to the south. In between is where the latest development, Hub 27, is poised to rise and join other existing, underway and planned developments at the north end of the Clark-Fulton neighborhood. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/09/17/two-apartment-buildings-in-hub-27s-first-phase/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 17, 2024Sep 17 Pretty disappointing. Thought we would continue to see market rate push down 25th street. I know current policy promotes LIHTC new construction, but I wish affordable units could instead be rolled into market rate developments. It seems like we’re just recreating the mistakes of the past here, at 74th and Detroit, and on Lorain at 44th.
September 17, 2024Sep 17 I wouldn't say it's disappointing. Sure, new market rate housing is good but so is new housing geared to affordable rents. We need both as there is a market for both. If we want to grow our population we will need all kinds of new housing. We're still coming up short there so l'm glad for these shovel reading apartment developments. Just keep building - there's still plenty of vacant land in the city for both.
September 17, 2024Sep 17 1 hour ago, cadmen said: I wouldn't say it's disappointing. Sure, new market rate housing is good but so is new housing geared to affordable rents. We need both as there is a market for both. If we want to grow our population we will need all kinds of new housing. We're still coming up short there so l'm glad for these shovel reading apartment developments. Just keep building - there's still plenty of vacant land in the city for both. Well said. We just read a story about how Cleveland needs new housing badly, not market rate, not affordable, housing in general. We aren't in the position to favor one over the other we need everything we can get. As long as it is designed and integrated well that is what I care about.
September 18, 2024Sep 18 3 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: Well said. We just read a story about how Cleveland needs new housing badly, not market rate, not affordable, housing in general. We aren't in the position to favor one over the other we need everything we can get. As long as it is designed and integrated well that is what I care about. I read that also, however what I don't understand is why housing is so affordable and cheap in inner city Cleveland? In one breath they say we're severely under-built, yet the market doesn't seem very competitive. I could be wrong. Just an observation.
September 18, 2024Sep 18 1 hour ago, Jenny said: I read that also, however what I don't understand is why housing is so affordable and cheap in inner city Cleveland? In one breath they say we're severely under-built, yet the market doesn't seem very competitive. I could be wrong. Just an observation. It depends on the area. In much of Cleveland it's cheap because there is limited demand (i.e. no incentive for developers), which frankly is the majority of Cleveland proper if we're being honest. So no driver to build new, quality housing in cheaper areas; leaving subpar options for folks with limited means. It's not cheap in Ohio City/Tremont/Gordon Sq/Little Italy unless it's a dump or subsidized. As someone who has been looking to possibly purchase a house in these areas I'd say lack of market rate inventory is driving up costs for the limited amount of housing on the market, which in turn leads to subpar units getting away with higher costs or rents. So from my perspective I see the barrier as lack of inventory unless I want to gut rehab a dump (I don't), purchase a $600k+ property (out of my budget), or get into a bidding war on one of the few properties in between (not ideal). To me it's perplexing to still see a good number underdeveloped lots and run down houses (slumlord investor type places) remain in areas that are said to be "booming" with quality houses demanding $400k-500k or more and rents in new buildings demanding $2,000+/mo. It's also odd to see some of these large sites lately getting earmarked as strictly affordable housing developments given these dynamics, which I don't think is a good thing for overall market dynamics but also leaves me second guessing the momentum to sustain development in these areas.
September 18, 2024Sep 18 5 hours ago, Rustbelter said: It's also odd to see some of these large sites lately getting earmarked as strictly affordable housing developments given these dynamics, which I don't think is a good thing for overall market dynamics but also leaves me second guessing the momentum to sustain development in these areas. You said it better than I did. But I believe the answer is simply that developers can make money more easily at the moment by throwing up a LIHTC project. So in a fringe area like this, despite the seeming momentum with other market rate projects, we’ll get more concentrated lower income housing because the developer can make money right now. And obviously we need a lot more affordable housing construction, but I wish we could do it in a better way. We should incentivize developers to include affordable units in market rate projects. Instead, on this project at least, we’ll get a value engineered box that provides little benefit except to the developer. Edited September 18, 2024Sep 18 by bumsquare
September 18, 2024Sep 18 If Cleveland didn't let its housing stock get so outdated to the point where its better to demolish than renovate we probably wouldn't be at this crossroads. I am of the belief that if you provided updated/new housing options for people to buy or even rent then we wouldn't have seen such a large exodus of people to the suburbs (yes people would leave due to schools etc.). People want a nice house and attractive neighborhood to live in for them and their family, the suburbs, due to them not experiencing disinvestment like Cleveland, offers that. If we would have been able to keep our neighborhoods stable by offering better housing options over time we could focus solely on market rate housing. Since we didn't we now have to replace OLD housing stock that still remains affordable to keep existing residents (we do have a poverty rate in the 30% range, lets not forget) while working to build attractive market rate/luxury housing to those that are more financially stable which leads to higher property values etc.
September 18, 2024Sep 18 I'm not sure its Cleveland's fault, or the former residents' fault. Cleveland was stable, and people nonetheless fled to the suburbs and the draw of the new. Block busting and redlining didn't help.
September 18, 2024Sep 18 2 hours ago, gruver said: I'm not sure its Cleveland's fault, or the former residents' fault. Cleveland was stable, and people nonetheless fled to the suburbs and the draw of the new. Block busting and redlining didn't help. When you say "the draw the new" I feel like you're referring to the suburban exodus from the 50's to the 70's. I was referring to a 30 year stretch, from the 80's up until the 2010's. At that point (the 80's) our housing was already 60-70 years old (my house was built in 1914) and we should've been working to replace/update that housing. I feel that if we would've been on the ball and keeping our neighborhoods appealing with new housing stock our population would be floating around 450K-500K with room for growth in the 2020's due to already stabilized, updated neighborhood's. We still would've lost population due to the continued loss of major corporations around the late 70's to 80's but it wouldn't have been as severe.
September 18, 2024Sep 18 24 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: When you say "the draw the new" I feel like you're referring to the suburban exodus from the 50's to the 70's. I was referring to a 30 year stretch, from the 80's up until the 2010's. At that point (the 80's) our housing was already 60-70 years old (my house was built in 1914) and we should've been working to replace/update that housing. I feel that if we would've been on the ball and keeping our neighborhoods appealing with new housing stock our population would be floating around 450K-500K with room for growth in the 2020's due to already stabilized, updated neighborhood's. We still would've lost population due to the continued loss of major corporations around the late 70's to 80's but it wouldn't have been as severe. Cities don’t build housing. They can incentivize and regulate but we live in a capitalist system and everything is determined by profit. Crazy to blame the city of Cleveland for something that happened in literally every single industrial city in the Midwest. There are myriad factors that drive population loss, and a city pulling itself up by its bootstraps is about number 432 on the list. To steer this back to the subject development, this is the kind of thing that can be built currently, at this location, at a profit. And I think that’s kind of a bummer when we were going to get market rate housing with an anchor grocery.
September 18, 2024Sep 18 3 hours ago, bumsquare said: To steer this back to the subject development, this is the kind of thing that can be built currently, at this location, at a profit. And I think that’s kind of a bummer when we were going to get market rate housing with an anchor grocery. Yes, the original development would have been nice. And train avenue, while currently a mess, could actually be turned into an interesting corridor all the way to Scranton with the right vision IMO. I mean really this entire area is awkward with that Nestle plant and the bleak streetscape along W 25th, so it would take some creativity or massive changes to make it into something more suitable for good urbanism. I'm hoping the large Vega Ave property at Fulton turns out better, so maybe at least Fulton can become an interesting corridor. My hope for Fulton would be major market rate projects at Vega, the scrapyard property, and building up multiple parcels around the Lorain Ave intersection (i.e. the gas station, Planet Fitness, Fridrich property, & MetroHealth property). And if we're getting crazy an infill Rapid Station and trail entrance at Fulton. Now that would make a nice little urban corridor!
September 18, 2024Sep 18 Let's not use this project as an example to diagnose the status of market rate development as a whole. I'd put this more in the "inexperienced equity needs any available exit option" than "the market cannot support more market rate development". The only concern to me would be that this is one in a bunch of groups overpaying for land thinking they were three years earlier when it came to interest rates and construction costs, and then not accepting selling at the true value (i.e. for a loss), and the land and project just sitting empty for a while. The vacant property on Vega and Fulton is a good example of that.
September 18, 2024Sep 18 ^ Oh, I think there is demand. I'd question the competency or capacity of local developers, along with public leadership. I know the pandemic and rates threw things off kilter but I'm not totally buying that excuse. I see better progress with smaller, piecemeal developments over the past few years in other cities in similar type neighborhoods. So the lesser version of this project is an example of that. Edited September 18, 2024Sep 18 by Rustbelter
September 19, 2024Sep 19 I'd echo other people's points that to get from OHC to this new area it's a pretty miserable experience. The section from Treo south also isn't great but there's a lot of potential (and a TON of underutilized land) down towards the Clark intersection. Maybe this is a loss if the project site were in a vacuum, but there's so much vacant land and underutilized land south of here on W25 that could create a nice city feel heading towards OHC. Maybe once the 25 connects project gets rolling and W25/Pearl is reduced in size a bit, you'll see more pedestrian friendly amenities, but right now you couldn't pay me to live on that road. My rambling aside: I feel like I've got a better photo of this site, but in lieu of me finding it, here's a view from Queen Ave-ish (I'll take another gander through my photos)- there's some really good unobstructed views of downtown from here (this is from 2021).
September 19, 2024Sep 19 Author Here's a few more pics I took in that area in 2022 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 6Mar 6 Author Cleveland’s new hot spot: BVQ District. Here’s why… By Ken Prendergast / March 6, 2025 There’s an underutilized 50-acre area on Cleveland’s near-West Side dubbed the BVQ District. It is surrounded by Ohio City, Tremont and the La Villa Hispana section of Clark-Fulton. All of those neighborhoods have seen, and continue to see a lot of investment. BVQ has been walled off from that activity by Interstate 90 and the Red Line tracks. But like water overtopping a dam, soon that dam is going to break. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/06/clevelands-new-hot-spot-bvq-district-heres-why/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 6Mar 6 Cool good news! Wishing these developments the best! If this area takes off maybe we'll finally get an infill redline stop on near Fulton (or W41st though that doesn't directly serve this development area) The new station could also serve as a connection point for the red line Greenway which would also be a boon for this development. If this area really does take off, we'll need to address the pedestrian experience on most of bridges that connect this isolated area to the surrounding neighborhoods. Particularly the W25th bridges.
March 6Mar 6 I love this because it aligns with my personal dream of Train Ave getting some TLC to become a beautiful residential corridor. Which then keeps the veryyyyyyy slim dream of some sort of passenger rail on the Flats Industrial Rail lines alive.
March 27Mar 27 I might have missed it, but those handsome structures on the corner of Vega and Fulton.. those aren't getting demolished, right?
March 27Mar 27 9 minutes ago, FutureboyWonder said: I might have missed it, but those handsome structures on the corner of Vega and Fulton.. those aren't getting demolished, right? West or east side of Fulton? The western side is Platform's former brewing ops and is/was(?) for sale: https://www.crexi.com/properties/1557530/ohio-turnkey-beverage-production-and-distribution-facility. The other section is also for sale/mentioned in Ken's article.
March 27Mar 27 I definitely should have mentioned I'd hate to see either go down so I'm curious about the viability of both. It's shame platform crashed and burned, because how viable is it to repurpose an old brewery? Anyone have any thoughts about it continuing its hoppy legacy with a new company? As far as the eastern side goes i understood it was changing hands, but whether the structure could be used or not wasn't mentioned. I particularly enjoy the way these 2 building frame the bridge coming and going and I think it'd be cool to see them both reused.
April 5Apr 5 Author More! Next in Cleveland’s BVQ District: Vega Ave. Studio Lofts By Ken Prendergast / April 5, 2025 If it seems like a new development is popping up just about every month in Cleveland’s Barber-Vega-Queen (BVQ) District, you’re right. The latest to pop up on public records is the Vega Avenue Studio Lofts. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/04/05/next-in-clevelands-bvq-district-vega-ave-studio-lofts/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
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