Posted February 11, 20232 yr $25,000?? Seriously? When all is said and done, I expect NS is going to be paying everyone for their homes because they won't be able to move back. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 11, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, KJP said: $25,000?? Seriously? When all is said and done, I expect NS is going to be paying everyone for their homes because they won't be able to move back. Cleveland.com reported that it's $1,000/person. Still way too low and a lawyer things that it's to prevent anyone who accepts the money from making additional claims. https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/02/attorney-warns-victims-of-east-palestine-train-derailment-not-to-accept-1000-inconvenience-checks-from-norfolk-southern.html On a related note, only reporting I've seen on this from cle.com... possible I missed it but this has been generally under reported by everyone.
February 11, 20232 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 13, 20232 yr Not sure if the East Palestine situation deserves its own thread, but I'm seeing more and more people questioning the government handling and messaging of what's going on there. Don't know if/when it dips into "conspiracy theory" territory, though. Very Stable Genius
February 15, 20232 yr Updates from East Palestine on Health Concerns, Water Contamination and Accountability Gov. Mike DeWine said Tuesday that it’s “absurd” the train that derailed in East Palestine wasn’t designated a “high hazardous material train,” urging U.S. Congress to change the current regulations. “We should know when we have trains carrying hazardous material that are going to the state of Ohio,” DeWine argued during a news conference. The Federal Railroad Administration defines a “high-hazard flammable train” as one with 20 cars in succession or 35 cars throughout carrying class 3 flammable liquids. The fireball and massive, black plume of smoke in East Palestine came from burning the contents of just five cars carrying vinyl chloride. DeWine, and a succession of cabinet officials, provided updates Tuesday about recovery efforts and safety monitoring. It’s a delicate balance — acknowledging the legitimate concerns of residents while also trying to allay their fears. The governor said he’s been in touch with President Joe Biden who assured him the federal government would supply “anything I needed.” DeWine also relayed his conversation with Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw. “I asked him directly — directly — if he would personally guarantee, if he would personally guarantee, that the railroad would stay there until absolutely everything was cleaned up,” DeWine said. “He gave me his word and his commitment that the railroad would do that. They would not leave until that was done.” More below: https://columbusunderground.com/updates-from-east-palestine-on-health-concerns-water-contamination-and-accountability-ocj1/ "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 15, 20232 yr Residents should start sending bottles of the contaminated water to government officials (De Wine). "De Water for De Wine!" Lets see if they drink it - I bet not. They will probably fine or imprison the residents for sending a bio-hazard.
February 15, 20232 yr Agreed - It's the biggest environmental disaster in the US in over 50 years and it took Pete 12 days to speak about it. If it had happened in Ukraine, they would have already sent over a few billion dollars.
February 15, 20232 yr Very constructive contributions to the conversation. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 15, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, ColDayMan said: Updates from East Palestine on Health Concerns, Water Contamination and Accountability Gov. Mike DeWine said Tuesday that it’s “absurd” the train that derailed in East Palestine wasn’t designated a “high hazardous material train,” urging U.S. Congress to change the current regulations. “We should know when we have trains carrying hazardous material that are going to the state of Ohio,” DeWine argued during a news conference. The Federal Railroad Administration defines a “high-hazard flammable train” as one with 20 cars in succession or 35 cars throughout carrying class 3 flammable liquids. The fireball and massive, black plume of smoke in East Palestine came from burning the contents of just five cars carrying vinyl chloride. DeWine, and a succession of cabinet officials, provided updates Tuesday about recovery efforts and safety monitoring. It’s a delicate balance — acknowledging the legitimate concerns of residents while also trying to allay their fears. The governor said he’s been in touch with President Joe Biden who assured him the federal government would supply “anything I needed.” DeWine also relayed his conversation with Norfolk Southern CEO Alan Shaw. “I asked him directly — directly — if he would personally guarantee, if he would personally guarantee, that the railroad would stay there until absolutely everything was cleaned up,” DeWine said. “He gave me his word and his commitment that the railroad would do that. They would not leave until that was done.” More below: https://columbusunderground.com/updates-from-east-palestine-on-health-concerns-water-contamination-and-accountability-ocj1/ It's absolutely naive of DeWine to believe that the corporation that intentionally underfunded maintenance and safety to line their own pockets and therefore caused the disaster can be taken at their word that they're committed to doing the right thing now.
February 16, 20232 yr I could have sworn some rail workers and unions were saying s**t like this had and will happen again. And yet that awful contract was still ratified via executive decree due to the usual "too big to fail" talking point. At least the 9/11 first responders have been healthy with their medical care well funded for 20+ years. We can certainly trust the same will happen here too.
February 16, 20232 yr Author Remember that in 2020, Norfolk Southern rerouted perhaps a half-dozen 100+ car freight trains carrying nothing but oil off a lightly populated route through Mansfield to a northern Ohio route through Cleveland with six times more people. NS got the Federal Railroad Administration to approve removing passing sidings along the less populous so that the rerouted trains couldn't return to their original route without spending $100 million+ to restore those passing sidings. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 16, 20232 yr Has it been determined that the accident was in fact caused by deferred/poor maintenance? It seems like people are jumping to that conclusion.
February 17, 20232 yr 14 minutes ago, X said: These are fascinating political analysis. Can we get back to the derailment? Sorry.
February 17, 20232 yr Isn’t it ironic that the anti-science, defund the EPA, diesel truck driving, Ryan home living, climate change is fake, etc crowd is now concerned? Trump got rid of the electric brakes rule for trains carrying these hazardous materials and DeWine is doing god knows what but this is Biden’s fault. Lol Edited February 17, 20232 yr by Clefan14
February 17, 20232 yr Quote Almost two weeks after a Norfolk Southern Railway train derailed in the village located just west of the Pennsylvania state line, the Ohio governor requested federal assistance for residents dealing with the aftermath. https://www.theepochtimes.com/ohio-gov-no-fema-assistance-for-east-palestine-residents-in-wake-of-toxic-train-derailment_5063691.html Quote The sheer bulk of the 150-car train that went off the rails Feb. 3 is just one factor investigators are expected to consider amid the unfolding ecological disaster near the Ohio-Pennsylvania border, which caused a massive fireball, forced an evacuation and has left a lingering odor, fears of lasting contamination and thousands of dead fish. Quote In a 2019 study, the Government Accountability Office said 150 cars is more than twice the average length of freight trains operated by major railroads from 2008 through 2017. The GAO found that average freight train lengths had increased by 25 percent since 2008, and noted that some stretch to nearly three miles long. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/16/ohio-derailment-train-east-palestine-00083122 Quote It is too early to say if these car inspection policies, or any Norfolk Southern policy, had anything to do with 32N’s derailment. But the National Transportation Safety Board, which is investigating the derailment, confirmed the authenticity of doorbell camera videos that showed a car axle on fire about 20 miles before the derailment. Trackside monitors called hot box detectors, placed every 10 to 20 miles, are supposed to alert crews and dispatchers if a wheel is heating up to dangerous levels. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported that the 20-mile distance between the footage of the axle on fire and the derailment raises questions about whether the monitors were working properly. In theory, the monitors should detect a hot wheel or axle long before it is on fire. https://www.vice.com/en/article/88qze4/32-nasty-rail-workers-say-they-knew-the-train-that-derailed-in-east-palestine-was-dangerous
February 17, 20232 yr 43 minutes ago, Clefan14 said: and DeWine is doing god knows what Mike DeWine is incredibly ill-equipped to handle well, pretty much anything at this point. He makes Ted Strickland look llike FDR. He couldn't be botherd to give a crap about this until his police started arresting reporters. It took him two weeks to ask for Federal assistance, and only after the mushroom cloud pictures started circulating.
February 17, 20232 yr Cincinnati closing Ohio River water intakes to prevent contamination from East Palestine derailment Greater Cincinnati Water Works will close Cincinnati's water intake in the Ohio River ahead of anticipated contaminated water from the East Palestine train derailment, the agency announced Friday morning. The contamination is expected to reach the portion of the Ohio River from which Cincinnati draws its drinking water late Saturday night or early Sunday, GCWW said. Closing the intakes is "out of an abundance of caution," GCWW said.
February 17, 20232 yr This is about as major of a developing story as it gets, several posters have some pretty good insight on the background, and some seem to be trying to get it locked down.
February 17, 20232 yr ah, this is nothing new. It happened in Painesville in 2007 http://www.mainstreetpainesville.org/
February 17, 20232 yr Author "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 17, 20232 yr 45 minutes ago, eastvillagedon said: ah, this is nothing new. It happened in Painesville in 2007 There have been three major derailments in NE Ohio in the last few months. Ravenna, and one in Huron or Norwalk (I forget which) the same day as EP.
February 17, 20232 yr "In a 2019 study, the Government Accountability Office said 150 cars is more than twice the average length of freight trains operated by major railroads from 2008 through 2017. The GAO found that average freight train lengths had increased by 25 percent since 2008, and noted that some stretch to nearly three miles long." Yeah, because it takes more people to run two 75 car trains than one 150 car train. Of course a longer train is at more risk of derailment than a shorter one, that is basic physics. It's hard to say the unions didn't warn that this could happen, and even the Democrats blew them off. They own this as much as the GOP does. Both parties are handling this so softly one wonders....
February 19, 20232 yr This is such a disaster, glad the media is finally giving it the attention it deserves. Had it been in California we'd probabaly heard about it ad-nauseum. On a side note I grew up in NE Ohio and never heard it pronounced "East Palisteen". That was new to me.
February 19, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, metrocity said: This is such a disaster, glad the media is finally giving it the attention it deserves. Had it been in California we'd probabaly heard about it ad-nauseum. On a side note I grew up in NE Ohio and never heard it pronounced "East Palisteen". That was new to me. Had the train derailed 15 minutes earlier, it would have literally been in the backyard of the house I grew up in. The security cam footage of the train that was sparking and on fire miles before the derailment? Yep, all too painfully familiar with the area. And yes, “northeast Ohio” in some ways is a world away from Columbiana County, where it’s always been pronounced ‘East Palisteen’. clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
February 19, 20232 yr 7 hours ago, MayDay said: Had the train derailed 15 minutes earlier, it would have literally been in the backyard of the house I grew up in. The security cam footage of the train that was sparking and on fire miles before the derailment? Yep, all too painfully familiar with the area. And yes, “northeast Ohio” in some ways is a world away from Columbiana County, where it’s always been pronounced ‘East Palisteen’. I swear I had friends at Kent State that said they were from East Palis"stein"
February 19, 20232 yr Something I've thought about is if the train had derailed maybe even roughly a couple minutes later than it had, all we would have been hearing about is "a train derailment in Pennsylvania"
February 19, 20232 yr DJT will be going to East Palestine this week. This doesn't say much about him or his people. it is an obvious move. It say a lot about the Biden Administration in general and Buttigieg in particular that they left this door open. They would rather blame him for actions they have had two years to reverse. They are perceived as taking the white working class for granted and this perception, not without some merit, is precisely why DJT was ever President to begin with.
February 21, 20232 yr Updates from East Palestine Angela Hacker’s East Palestine home backs up to the train tracks. “Literally, my fence goes up against the railroad tracks,” she explained. “And when this happened, the train was stopped by my house for three days until they backed it out.” “That was the safe part of the train, but still — when you see what happened to it, they were still connected. And I’m like scared, you know?” ‘Inconvenience’ Hacker’s home is 1.1 miles from the crash site. She knows because Norfolk Southern initially denied her request for a $1,000 inconvenience check offered to those living within one mile. “To me, that’s almost an insult of a word,” she said after a long pause. She noted Norfolk Southern has since expanded eligibility to cover the entire zip code. But she criticized how company representatives have nothing but “shallow answers” to offer residents. “An inconvenience is something that delays me a couple of minutes not possibly a lifetime.” More below: https://columbusunderground.com/updates-from-east-palestine-ocj1/ "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 21, 20232 yr Author EPA Orders Norfolk Southern to Conduct All Cleanup Actions Associated with the East Palestine Train Derailment EPA order comes as state-led emergency response transitions to environmental cleanup phase; EPA will continue to work with local, state, and federal partners to ensure the health and safety of East Palestine community https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-orders-norfolk-southern-conduct-all-cleanup-actions-associated-east-palestine "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 22, 20232 yr Author Bad move. Instead, force freight trains to be shorter. Check out the law proposed by Arizona. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 22, 20232 yr Hey @KJP you’re getting some traction w Councilor Spencer on calling out NS for routing traffic through the city that should travel elsewhere When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 22, 20232 yr Author Just now, Boomerang_Brian said: Hey @KJP you’re getting some traction w Councilor Spencer on calling out NS for routing traffic through the city that should travel elsewhere About three years too late "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 22, 20232 yr 18 hours ago, KJP said: Bad move. Instead, force freight trains to be shorter. Check out the law proposed by Arizona. ELI5 what is "PTC" and why was its implementation effed up?
February 22, 20232 yr 15 minutes ago, Gramarye said: ELI5 what is "PTC" and why was its implementation effed up? Positive Train Control - safety system for trains. Was screwed up on the Pacific Northwest higher speed rail that derailed a few years ago. I’m also curious from those in the know how else it has been screwed up. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 22, 20232 yr 18 hours ago, KJP said: Bad move. Instead, force freight trains to be shorter. Check out the law proposed by Arizona. This, right here. At least trains carrying hazardous cargo, broadly defined. Fewer, longer trains mean fewer workers. Which is what the unions were getting at.
February 22, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, TBideon said: Nationalize those bastards. Hope this is sarcastic. Rail transport would become irrelevant within a decade. Imagine GCRTA's management structure, writ nationwide.
February 22, 20232 yr Too big to fail = too big to be privately held. Edited February 22, 20232 yr by TBideon
February 22, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, TBideon said: Too big to fail = too big to be privately held. No. Government bureaucracies are protected from failure, or that matter consequences, an order of magnitude more than any private company.
February 22, 20232 yr Author I support nationalizing the infrastructure, particularly the rights of way. Too many shippers and towns are captive to one railroad company. And when that railroad decides it doesn't want to maintain that infrastructure anymore because it doesn't make enough money to satisfy their Wall Street overlords (yes, some profitable infrastructure has been abandoned because it doesn't make *enough* profit), that infrastructure is often gone. In no other mode of transportation is infrastructure supposed to be a profit center. Nationalizing infrastructure would offer many benefits including more rail access, more competition, lower shipping costs, preservation of lighter density rail lines and externalizing infrastructure costs on to the public which is where it should be. Several costs are no longer valid including the need to charge enough to attain a profit margin plus insurance costs as well as interest because the government enjoys a lower interest rate on long-term capital debt structures. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 23, 20232 yr 18 hours ago, KJP said: I support nationalizing the infrastructure, particularly the rights of way. Too many shippers and towns are captive to one railroad company. And when that railroad decides it doesn't want to maintain that infrastructure anymore because it doesn't make enough money to satisfy their Wall Street overlords (yes, some profitable infrastructure has been abandoned because it doesn't make *enough* profit), that infrastructure is often gone. In no other mode of transportation is infrastructure supposed to be a profit center. Nationalizing infrastructure would offer many benefits including more rail access, more competition, lower shipping costs, preservation of lighter density rail lines and externalizing infrastructure costs on to the public which is where it should be. Several costs are no longer valid including the need to charge enough to attain a profit margin plus insurance costs as well as interest because the government enjoys a lower interest rate on long-term capital debt structures. Wouldn't this also massively reduce conflicts because the Federal government would control dispatching, just like with air travel?
February 23, 20232 yr 22 hours ago, E Rocc said: Hope this is sarcastic. Rail transport would become irrelevant within a decade. Imagine GCRTA's management structure, writ nationwide. Maybe you have misunderstood and thought someone was suggesting that the federal government own and run the trains -- that's not it. Federal management of infrastructure that is used by private companies can work well -- truck traffic is booming on the federal interstate highway system. Imagine if RTA only managed the rails and a private company managed the trains running on them. Same idea -- federal ownership, management of the construction and maintenance of the routes, federal control of the scheduling, private operators run and maintain the trains. Also not too dissimilar from how the FAA regulates airlines and traffic controllers.
February 24, 20232 yr Here’s the initial NTSB report https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/RRD23MR005 East Palestine OH Prelim.pdf When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 24, 20232 yr And the actions leading to the Sandusky derailment seem relevant When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 25, 20232 yr If only they were capable of shame: Original Tweet: The letter (image is also linked to Politico’s posting): When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
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