Nearly 20 years after this forum started, I'm starting the first Philadelphia transit thread!

 

I drove the Roosevelt Boulevard in 1989 out to Torresdale when my sister lived in Philadelphia. I wondered why this busy area didn't have at least a trolley if not a subway. Hopefully this can happen....

 

 

 

#167 APRIL 2023/FEATURED/TRANSPORTATION
Roosevelt Boulevard subway could slash congestion, save lives and bring investment to the Northeast

https://gridphilly.com/blog-home/2023/04/03/roosevelt-boulevard-subway-could-slash-congestion-save-lives-and-bring-investment-to-the-northeast/

The Philly El has defintely struggled a lot with criminals, smokers, homeless, mentally ill, etc, the last few years though that can be said about most local train systems in major US cities. God knows the CTA has utterly collapsed in many ways, in particular the 24-hour lines, and my niece and her husband have had some rough experiences on the MTA since COVID. This s**t isn't getting better.

 

 I wonder if there's really support for billions of investment when what's existing is so broken. 

18 minutes ago, TBideon said:

The Philly El has defintely struggled a lot with criminals, smokers, homeless, mentally ill, etc, the last few years though that can be said about most local train systems in major US cities.

That suggests that Philly should be investing in more transit police and social services.

You've got that right. They, and other cities, need to think wayyyyy outside the box for dramatically improving safety and safety perceptions. No more goddamn bandaids. There should be armies of city police, social workers, volunteers, city ambassadors, deputized civlilains, etc, in all these major systems.

 

And huge incentive programs in exchange for participating in these programs i.e. property tax abatements, local tax abatements, sales tax abatements, green card status after serving x hours, citizenship after serving x hours, guaranteed public employment after serving x hours, etc. Outside-the-box thinking is desperately needed. I don't know why America accepts people being terrorized in trains and buses, but it needs to stop.

 

Once we match Western European safety levels (god forbid we're ever on par with Asian countries), then the appetite for massive capital investments will grow. Pipe dreams until then.

I'll bump the thread, not sorry. The problem with SEPTA is it's severely underfunded by a state that hates Philly and had been run by the GOP until recently. Imagine if SEPTA had the funding NYC, Chicago, Boston, DC. etc. gets it would blow the rest of the country out of the water in transit quality. Sometimes I think the state of PA and rest of the country are secretly jealous of Philly's greatness and want to undermine it so they can feel better. SEPTA with proper funding can be as good as Europe and much better than NYC's MTA or even Toronto. We have the ONLY through-running commuter rail system that can easily turn into an S-Bahn or RER but SEPTA doesn't have the money or planning acumen to do so. And the Market Frankford El probably has the best non-peak frequencies in the country (if there's another line that's better please enlighten us).

Not my idea, but I do agree with this video making a case for Philadelphia having the best transit system in the US. Feel free to argue but Philly's SEPTA is the gold standard for all transit agencies as it has been problem free for so long and not riddle with wasteful spending and half-assed and inefficient expansion projects way over budget like we've seen with NYC.

Probably better to respond here....

 

On 4/10/2025 at 3:50 PM, ColDayMan said:

SEPTA plans to cut service on dozens of routes and may lay off staff amid funding crisis

 

Summary:

• 50 bus routes cut
• No Metro or Regional Rail service after 9 PM
• Paoli, Cynwyd, Chestnut Hill West, Trenton, and Wilmington Lines cut
• 10 and 15 trolleys converted to bus operation
• Closing 66 stations (!!!)

• Whole bus depots would be closed.

• Fares would increase from $2.50 to $2.90 a ride.

More below:

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/transportation-and-transit/septa-budget-proposal-transit-death-spiral-philadelphia-pennsylvania/4156727/ & https://wwww.septa.org/fundingcrisis/

 

 

Not surprising. SEPTA ridership is a shadow of its former self. When I visited my sister who was living in Philadelphia in the late 1980s, station parking lots overflowed with commuters' cars and the trains and trolleys were full. Now, there seems to be more homeless than commuters riding and occupying the stations.

Even with the cuts SEPTA still has more bus and rail service than all of Ohio put together. The 3C's wish they could have Philly's rail network, even though at least Cleveland could use something half the size.

It's an appraisal; not an attack. I rode SEPTA lines in 2023 and was horrified to see how much the system has declined despite all the urban core development. Same deal in Cleveland and other cities where most of the gentrifiers living in the urban core own cars or take Uber/Lyft, walk and bike everywhere but won't be caught riding transit. But Philly was a mini New York to me transit-wise when I was a young adult and saw it as an equal to Toronto's transit scene -- especially right after completion of the Center City tunnel that unified the former Reading and PRR systems. Not anymore. Not even close. BTW, when my family and I visited Philly two years ago, I loved it but my European wife and 10-year-old son thought it was dirty and seedy. I don't mind a gritty city -- I live in Cleveland after all!

11 minutes ago, KJP said:

It's an appraisal; not an attack. I rode SEPTA lines in 2023 and was horrified to see how much the system has declined despite all the urban core development. Same deal in Cleveland and other cities where most of the gentrifiers living in the urban core own cars or take Uber/Lyft, walk and bike everywhere but won't be caught riding transit. But Philly was a mini New York to me transit-wise when I was a young adult and saw it as an equal to Toronto's transit scene. Not anymore. Not even close. BTW, when my family and I visited Philly two years ago, I loved it but my European wife and 10-year-old son thought it was dirty and seedy. I don't mind a gritty city -- I live in Cleveland after all!

 

I looked it up, they are also a result of a late 1970s merger of systems.  

 

I wonder if they had their own Norman Krumholz, railing against any accommodation to the preferences or priorities of "fat cats".

 

In Cleveland, that's what caused those with options to eschew transit, and that mindset persists.

3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

I looked it up, they are also a result of a late 1970s merger of systems.  

 

I wonder if they had their own Norman Krumholz, railing against any accommodation to the preferences or priorities of "fat cats".

 

In Cleveland, that's what caused those with options to eschew transit, and that mindset persists.

Of course there was a merger - nearly all metro area transit systems went through mergers in that era, because if they hadn’t they would have financially collapsed and ceased operating. You keep bringing this up, but it is not remotely relevant to the discussion of transit systems today. The options were to merge or to cease operating. We can criticize modern transit operations and funding without pretending like not merging would have led to some better current reality. All of the US transit systems that work reasonably well were ALSO the result of transit system mergers over the decades. 
 

Would we have a better park system with a dozen-plus parks departments instead of Metroparks? Would we have a better library system with 40 separate library districts instead of the county system? Of course not! Why would transit be any different?