Wooooooowzer!!!!!!! What a horrible loss. I just hit up a buddy who works at the tournament every summer who said there is a lot more to this story that will be coming out shortly! And apparently the Ohio folks are furious like reallyyyyy mad.

Edited May 10, 20232 yr by 646empire

Any way the Art Modell law applies here?


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No decision has been "made" expected later this "summer"....They also want like $130 million from the state of North Carolina so it's not a slam dunk to happen....

Not surprised, the history of the tournament doesnt matter anymore. Everyone knew as soon as this tournament was purchased the grand plan was to relocate it further south. Benjamin Navarro wouldnt have bought the tourney to keep it in Cincinnati, he wants to bring it closer to his empire. The state of NC and the Charlotte business community will find the 130 million dollars for an event like the Western Southern. It was great while it lasted, have to wonder why Barrett was trying to make a pitch about moving the tennis tournament closer to the city. He knew what was being planned as well. 

16 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

No decision has been "made" expected later this "summer"....They also want like $130 million from the state of North Carolina so it's not a slam dunk to happen....

Sounds like he is shopping it around and using it as leverage. I would be more concerned with Charleston given his home market. 

Charlotte has the airport but I am sure the USTA would prefer the current location if it shows to be viable which it is. 

3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Sounds like he is shopping it around and using it as leverage. I would be more concerned with Charleston given his home market. 

Charlotte has the airport but I am sure the USTA would prefer the current location if it shows to be viable which it is. 

Not sure why the tournament would go to the Ohio House for $ 22.5 million with $150 mil expansion plans if it wasn't being considered.I think if Charlotte gets their funding in place it probably relocates though.

On 4/26/2023 at 5:57 PM, nicker66 said:

 

A billionaire that is passionate about tennis and passionate about his hometown cannot be reasoned with.  I really hope the tournament stays here forever, but this would be the least surprising move ever.  

🤷‍♂️ I knew it was Charlotte but you guys kept confusing me.  Where's the clown who keeps saying I'm wrong about the information I post.  

 

This is just a massive shakedown to get State of Ohio funds, and also a shakedown for North Carolina to get them to "build it so they will come."   Our only hope is that Charlotte is just added as a new tournament, but this tournament is unfortunately gone.  

Edited May 10, 20232 yr by nicker66

5 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

Not sure why the tournament would go to the Ohio House for $ 22.5 million with $150 mil expansion plans if it wasn't being considered.I think if Charlotte gets their funding in place it probably relocates though.

He certainly would prefer Charlotte it seems, but it would be much cheaper to keep in Mason, so we will see. I have always hated Charlotte. 

17 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Sounds like he is shopping it around and using it as leverage. I would be more concerned with Charleston given his home market. 

 

The guy isn't originally from the South.  He's from Massachusetts and worked for a hedge fund or some such in New York City before starting his own company in South Carolina.  

 

Remember when Carl Lindner brought Chiquita to Cincinnati from Boston?  There are bragging rights from buying a company or a tournament and then there are mega-bragging rights that come with moving it.  

 

Apparently Western-Southern and other local parties bid on the tournament, but billionaires love overpaying for art/teams/tournaments.  

 

1 hour ago, nicker66 said:

🤷‍♂️ I knew it was Charlotte but you guys kept confusing me.  Where's the clown who keeps saying I'm wrong about the information I post.  

 

This is just a massive shakedown to get State of Ohio funds, and also a shakedown for North Carolina to get them to "build it so they will come."   Our only hope is that Charlotte is just added as a new tournament, but this tournament is unfortunately gone.  

He owns the Tennis complex is in Charleston, SC where the women's tournament (Credit One Charleston Cup) is located. The Charlotte thing is completely new, but he must think the State of NC and Charlotte Business community can pony up more than Charleston. 

Is there a chance of keeping the tournament if we match the NC state funding request?

What's weird is that Charlotte is only about 10 miles from the South Carolina border, meaning he might be seeking money/investors from South Carolina, not North Carolina.  

 

What's really weird is that not one but two states are named for King Charles I of England.  One would think that English colonies that defected from England and formed a democracy would change their names to something other than an English king, especially one that was executed en route to England's short-lived attempt to form a republic of its own.  

The ATP has to sign off on any relocation.Could be it stays.Either way the tournament needs to have double the amount of courts it currently has.The ATP tournament field is going from 56 to 92 players and from 7 to 14 days in length

 

 

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/warren-county/mason/western-southern-open-owner-proposes-moving-tennis-tournament-from-mason-to-charlotte

2 hours ago, 646empire said:

Wooooooowzer!!!!!!! What a horrible loss. I just hit up a buddy who works at the tournament every summer who said there is a lot more to this story that will be coming out shortly! And apparently the Ohio folks are furious like reallyyyyy mad.

Basically this came as a surprise (sort of). Apparently they knew the group was going to develop plans to stay and move but was not aware this announcement was coming publicly. The feeling now is the new owner wants a bidding war for the tournament and yes if the Ohio side puts up enough it will in fact stay. This has now left a very sour taste in many mouths, they should have not come out with this unless they was sure on a location one way or the other.

2 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Basically this came as a surprise (sort of). Apparently they knew the group was going to develop plans to stay and move but was not aware this announcement was coming publicly. The feeling now is the new owner wants a bidding war for the tournament and yes if the Ohio side puts up enough it will in fact stay. This has now left a very sour taste in many mouths, they should have not come out with this unless they was sure on a location one way or the other.

 

Chances are, this guy, as a resident of the Carolinas, no doubt has deeper political connections there, and so is set up to get a richer deal.  

 

Maybe he'll swap us that women's tournament he owns in Charleston.  

 

 

On 4/26/2023 at 4:24 PM, DEPACincy said:

Speaking of money talking, the Lindner Family Tennis Center is the only non-Grand Slam event venue with more than two stadiums. The Charleston location has one, which even after expansion is smaller than Lindner's Center Court. Are they going to build three more stadiums on the Charleston grounds? It would be very foolish to abandon one of the nicest tennis centers in the world to move the tournament and have to put tens of millions into the new location to bring it up to par. I'm not saying it is impossible. Billionaires sometimes do foolish things in the name of ego (see Elon Musk), but it would be very dumb.

 

Well, I didn't see Charlotte coming at all. But I'll double down on what I said above. He might move it, but he'd be stupid to do so. 

 

I think more likely he's just trying to put pressure on Ohio to cough up more money. We'll see.

 

I’m hearing today again this tournament WILL be staying in Cincinnati as long as the upgrades are robust enough. I’m also hearing Western Southern will pull sponsorship of the tournament if it is moved. Cincy is definitely striking back, We shall see!

Why would the Western & Southern Open move to Charlotte, N.C.?

By Meg Erpenbeck  –  Digital editor, Cincinnati Business Courier

May 17, 2023

 

When Beemok Capital first purchased the Western & Southern Open in 2021, the first question for many within Greater Cincinnati was: Will it remain in Mason?

 

Less than a year later, reports reveal Beemok is working through preliminary plans to move the tournament to a new permanent home in Charlotte, N.C.

 

What is Beemok Capital?

Beemok Capital is the family office of Charleston, S.C., billionaire Ben Navarro. Navarro's portfolio includes Sherman Financial Group and interests in credit cards, loans, real estate and distressed consumer debt. Navarro made a bid for the Carolina Panthers in 2018 but lost out to David Tepper, who paid $2.275 billion to acquire the NFL franchise.

 

MORE

 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/05/26/beemok-capital-city-of-charlotte-tennis.html?cx_testId=7&cx_testVariant=cx_9&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

$132 million government payout on a $400 million capital project seems like a bad deal to me. If I was Charlotte I would offer a lot less. There's no way they would recoup $132 million on a $400 million project in 10 years if the property tax rate is, what, 2.5% there? At minimum at that rate it would take 14 years. 

A huge factor that isn't mentioned is this tournament has too double in size by 2025.Charlottes tennis complex would not be ready until 2026 at the earliest date.....So?

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/05/30/beemok-capital-western-southern-open-mecklenburg.html

 

Yeah I still like Cincinnati's chances of keeping this just due to the cost and the Mason complex already being in place.

 

 South Carolina billionaire Ben Navarro bought the Western & Southern Open from the USTA last summer, and the event is his to do as he pleases. The tournament is a private business. Navarro can’t be forced to keep it at the Lindner Family Tennis Center. Navarro and Western & Southern CEO John Barrett recently met as part of Greater Cincinnati’s efforts to keep the tournament. A move to Charlotte isn’t imminent, I’m told, but Cincinnati can’t afford any hiccups in the effort to fund a $150 million expansion to the Lindner Family Tennis Center. 

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/jason-williams/2023/05/25/skepticism-grows-about-keeping-western-southern-open-tennis-tournament-in-cincinnati/70256502007/

Edited May 30, 20232 yr by ucnum1

Pretty detailed information.Greater Cincinnati needs to keep this.

 

https://www.journal-news.com/community/mason-state-propose-millions-of-dollars-to-keep-professional-tennis-tournament/YB6E36QCKNF43OA57DYHWYOSAE/

Mason commits $15M to Western & Southern Open, Lindner Family Tennis Center expansion

 

Mason City Council approved an ordinance June 5 that adds $15 million to Ohio’s financial package aimed at keeping the Western & Southern Open in Greater Cincinnati after the tournament was purchased by an out-of-state owner.

 

Business, government and community leaders were present at the special city council meeting Monday to hear from Ford Perry, chief operating officer of Beemok Capital, which finalized its purchase of the tournament in October 2022.

 

Beemok Capital estimates $375 million is needed to complete “critical improvements,” facilitate year-round activation and execute on a comprehensive master plan at the Lindner Family Tennis Center, the tournament's long-time home. Those upgrades would be necessary to not only handle an expanded tournament, but to make the tennis center the year-round sports tourism destination Beemok believes it could become.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2023/06/05/mason-commits-millions-western-southern-open.html

3 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

$15M

 

 

Chump Change.

8 hours ago, Lazarus said:

 

 

Chump Change.

 

Did you read the article? The actual amount committed by the state, county, and city combined is much higher.

On 5/30/2023 at 4:41 PM, ucnum1 said:

Yeah I still like Cincinnati's chances of keeping this just due to the cost and the Mason complex already being in place.

 

 South Carolina billionaire Ben Navarro bought the Western & Southern Open from the USTA last summer, and the event is his to do as he pleases. The tournament is a private business. Navarro can’t be forced to keep it at the Lindner Family Tennis Center. Navarro and Western & Southern CEO John Barrett recently met as part of Greater Cincinnati’s efforts to keep the tournament. A move to Charlotte isn’t imminent, I’m told, but Cincinnati can’t afford any hiccups in the effort to fund a $150 million expansion to the Lindner Family Tennis Center. 

 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/jason-williams/2023/05/25/skepticism-grows-about-keeping-western-southern-open-tennis-tournament-in-cincinnati/70256502007/

The more I think about it, I do too. The business community will make it very difficult to pull the tourney and the community seems to be coming to the table to pretty much give the tournament whatever they want (within reason). As much as Beemok may prefer Charlotte, Mason provides a lot of advantages that Charlotte cannot. If you can turn the current facility into a state of the art facility (which I do not see why you cant) then Mason is the easy choice.

The biggest thing, all things being equal facility wise, is that with Mason, you only have to invest 150 million into the facility vs in Charlotte triple the amount to create the same facility. Furthermore, Mason already has a dedicated base of support and the tourney is already very successful in Mason. There is every expectation that it will be successful for decades to come. In Charlotte, you have no guarantee of success. There is no built in fan base or expectation and such an event may fail there. It may be popular for 2-3 years as a novelty when it arrives but then support and interest will wane and people may quit coming, or come in much smaller numbers. In Mason, the base is already there and you do not have to spend as much marketing money to establish that base. If Mason is willing to invest the money to keep it, to me, it is the much safer choice for a company such as Beemok to make as opposed to charting a new course in Charlotte (after all, Atlanta once had a tennis tourney and it failed too, so what says Charlotte will be successful)

22 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

The biggest thing, all things being equal facility wise, is that with Mason, you only have to invest 150 million into the facility vs in Charlotte triple the amount to create the same facility

 

But the tennis facility/tourney is going to anchor a brand-new development in Charlotte.  It appears to be similar to the strategy employed recently by The Atlanta Braves in their move to a large mixed-use development that they own.  The Chicago Bears just bought a horse track and are planning the same thing.  The developers of So-Fi Stadium in Inglewood, CA also plan to develop and own the mixed-use stuff around their new stadium (also a former horse track).  Closer to home, FC Cincinnati is doing it in the West End.  

 

 

 

This again illustrates the weakness of the current site in Mason.  It's a nondescript location where the owners of the tournament aren't able to leverage it to increase the value of surrounding real estate that they also own.  

 

 

 

 

The new owner is a hedge-fund guy.  Those guys make money by "unlocking value".  He saw this tournament as something with a lot of value that couldn't be realized in its current setup.  

14 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

 

But the tennis facility/tourney is going to anchor a brand-new development in Charlotte.  It appears to be similar to the strategy employed recently by The Atlanta Braves in their move to a large mixed-use development that they own.  The Chicago Bears just bought a horse track and are planning the same thing.  The developers of So-Fi Stadium in Inglewood, CA also plan to develop and own the mixed-use stuff around their new stadium (also a former horse track).  Closer to home, FC Cincinnati is doing it in the West End.  

 

 

 

This again illustrates the weakness of the current site in Mason.  It's a nondescript location where the owners of the tournament aren't able to leverage it to increase the value of surrounding real estate that they also own.  

 

 

 

 

I get it, but who says Mason can't be transformed into that. Yes, the land is developed, but a golf course can be redeveloped for a better use. The city owns the golf course and could sacrifice it to anchor a similar development if that is what is desired.

 

Also, to me, the big kicker is that there is no guarantee of success in Charlotte, development or not whereas in Mason you have a proven commodity. I think Beemok would prefer Charlotte all things being equal but it may be easier to keep it in Mason. 

15 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

 

But the tennis facility/tourney is going to anchor a brand-new development in Charlotte.  It appears to be similar to the strategy employed recently by The Atlanta Braves in their move to a large mixed-use development that they own.  The Chicago Bears just bought a horse track and are planning the same thing.  The developers of So-Fi Stadium in Inglewood, CA also plan to develop and own the mixed-use stuff around their new stadium (also a former horse track).  Closer to home, FC Cincinnati is doing it in the West End.  

 

 

 

This again illustrates the weakness of the current site in Mason.  It's a nondescript location where the owners of the tournament aren't able to leverage it to increase the value of surrounding real estate that they also own.  

 

 

 

 

Jason Williams is a click bait writer and has always been that.Beemok does not own the surrounding property at the proposed tennis complex in Charlotte.This isn't a done deal by any means 

6 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

Jason Williams is a click bait writer and has always been that.Beemok does not own the surrounding property at the proposed tennis complex in Charlotte.This isn't a done deal by any means 

From what I have read, the Charlotte project is a very heavy lift to accomplish whereas Mason is an easier lift. 
I think the concept of a mixed use village of apartments entertainment, etc centered around tennis is a great idea. It can open it up to full use more often during the year. Revamp the golf course to allow for more development or get rid of it altogether. The city of Mason owns the golf course and if it can bring in more for redevelopment, its time as a golf center may have passed. 

Yeah if a development around the tennis facility is what the new owner wants then sell them the golf course land.  The Braves new stadium is in the northern burbs of Atlanta aka the exact same thing as Mason.  

If the golf course is a bargaining chip in the negotiating process, the city took a hard line against its use on Monday. For good reason—the course was designed by Jack Nicklaus.

 

If anything, the county seems to want to create an event complex (maybe a mini convention center) that the golf course and tennis campus could share. So, no mixed-use component, but emphasis on health and wellness in accord with Mason’s stated vision of itself. 

 

Take a look at the county proposal in the second presentation at the end of this story. The county wants to demolish the Grizzly lodge and the golf clubhouse. The pickleball facility would go at the clubhouse site and the lodge and the space around it would become a “corporate and innovation facility,” which reads a bit like “Lorem ipsum.” A quasi-convention space/event complex might be a smart move there for a county that’s among the state’s largest and fastest growing but (and I need to check on this) doesn’t appear to have any large, programmable event space currently. 

 

https://www.fox19.com/2023/06/05/everyones-attention-is-this-mason-unveils-plan-keep-ws-open-greater-cincinnati/

Edited June 6, 20232 yr by Pdrome513

28 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

Yeah if a development around the tennis facility is what the new owner wants then sell them the golf course land.  The Braves new stadium is in the northern burbs of Atlanta aka the exact same thing as Mason.  

 

At least with Mason, it's a pretty vibrant place and one of Ohio's top suburbs. From an aesthetic perspective, even if Ohio as a whole might not be "flashy" enough for the tournament, Mason itself at least is putting one of our best possible places in the state forward. Whether or not we like to admit it as urbanists is a whole different issue, I'm not a fan of suburbia either, but for the most part it's suburbia done right.

 

So it's going to be hard to make a case to pull the tournament out because the community doesn't look or act the part for it. They just bought it to poach it for the carolinas, it's simple as that. If building some kind of a village there, at the golf course site keeps it, then that's what should happen. There's demand for housing, office, residential, etc. there so it won't go to waste. I personally think the idea of moving it downtown, somehow, is pretty cool and if done properly could justify the Fort Washington Way caps.... but that would require an owner who doesn't have a sole goal of pulling it out. 

 

Somehow the Crew got saved, thank goodness, maybe this can be saved too.

11 hours ago, Lazarus said:

 

 

Chump Change.

 

That's just the city of Mason itself. Not the county, state, etc.

29 minutes ago, SWOH said:

So it's going to be hard to make a case to pull the tournament out because the community doesn't look or act the part for it. They just bought it to poach it for the carolinas, it's simple as that. If building some kind of a village there, at the golf course site keeps it, then that's what should happen. There's demand for housing, office, residential, etc. there so it won't go to waste. I personally think the idea of moving it downtown, somehow, is pretty cool and if done properly could justify the Fort Washington Way caps.... but that would require an owner who doesn't have a sole goal of pulling it out. 

This is my positive takeaway from what is going on. If it were Charleston, I would have been less optimistic since that is "Hometown" for Beemok. Charlotte is nice but not necessarily a city that Beemok has a fondless or love over IMO. They may be more familiar with it over Cincinnati, and there are certainly benefits to Charlotte over Cincy but it is still a rather risky and more challenging move to pull it.  

The only way to justify a move is personal preference only because the economics of the deal favor Mason. If Beemok is in it to make money and get a better return on their investment, then Mason is the best choice. 

Reading between the lines from yesterday, Beemok bought the tournament because it is bullish on tennis as a long term investment option and sees the writing on the wall that its current asset in Charleston is about to be majorly devalued by the WTA so it decided to get into the game with a Masters event. My intuition is the Charlotte move was an assumption built into their purchase but that Mason came back with a better proposal than they expected. Hard to say what happens now but I doubt a move is a fait accompli at this point. 

Edited June 6, 20232 yr by Pdrome513

1 hour ago, SWOH said:

 

At least with Mason, it's a pretty vibrant place and one of Ohio's top suburbs. From an aesthetic perspective, even if Ohio as a whole might not be "flashy" enough for the tournament, Mason itself at least is putting one of our best possible places in the state forward. Whether or not we like to admit it as urbanists is a whole different issue, I'm not a fan of suburbia either, but for the most part it's suburbia done right.

 

So it's going to be hard to make a case to pull the tournament out because the community doesn't look or act the part for it. They just bought it to poach it for the carolinas, it's simple as that. If building some kind of a village there, at the golf course site keeps it, then that's what should happen. There's demand for housing, office, residential, etc. there so it won't go to waste. I personally think the idea of moving it downtown, somehow, is pretty cool and if done properly could justify the Fort Washington Way caps.... but that would require an owner who doesn't have a sole goal of pulling it out. 

 

Somehow the Crew got saved, thank goodness, maybe this can be saved too.

The tournament is going to double in size in a few years.  There's not way this could fit anywhere downtown.  

48 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

This is my positive takeaway from what is going on. If it were Charleston, I would have been less optimistic since that is "Hometown" for Beemok. Charlotte is nice but not necessarily a city that Beemok has a fondless or love over IMO. They may be more familiar with it over Cincinnati, and there are certainly benefits to Charlotte over Cincy but it is still a rather risky and more challenging move to pull it.  

The only way to justify a move is personal preference only because the economics of the deal favor Mason. If Beemok is in it to make money and get a better return on their investment, then Mason is the best choice. 

I'm not sure how you could make these statements.  It might cost more money upfront to move the tournament but that doesn't mean long term it would make more money here.  Charlotte is a bigger city that is growing faster then Cincy and has become a financial hub of the south.  They also have more fortune 500 companies then us which likely means more sponsorship money.  I want the tournament to stay but let's not act like we know all the finances at play. 

Charlotte is kind of bigger than Cincinnati, and it is growing faster, but I think one thing we have working for us is the geographic pull. Charlotte plus the surrounding Winston Salem / Greensboro, Columbia etc is around 5.3 million people. Mason is 1/4 the way to Columbus, plus Dayton is even closer and that alone is 5.8 million, then you add Indy, Louisville, Lexington etc and it we have way more people. Charlotte's tourney location is right next to CLT which is a bigger airport with more connections than CVG, and CVG is 40 miles away. That too me is the only real objective 'win' for Charlotte, everything else is pretty even or could be argued either way. Clearly the new owner just prefers the city closer to home that he is more familiar with so Cincinnati is going to need to make an offer he can't refuse. 

Edited June 6, 20232 yr by ucgrady

46 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

I'm not sure how you could make these statements.  It might cost more money upfront to move the tournament but that doesn't mean long term it would make more money here.  Charlotte is a bigger city that is growing faster then Cincy and has become a financial hub of the south.  They also have more fortune 500 companies then us which likely means more sponsorship money.  I want the tournament to stay but let's not act like we know all the finances at play. 

I would not say Charlotte is bigger. It is growing faster, and will be bigger someday but Cincinnati is bigger and Cincinnati/Dayton (which is what you have with a facility in Mason) is a significantly larger market than Charlotte.  Yes, Charlotte does have a corporate community but you would need to cultivate that (not saying it cant be done) but there is a lot of groundwork there (W&S will not follow the tourney to Charlotte). Also, in Mason you have a built in fanbase that has been coming there for 40+ years, you have a great tennis community there. This is not the case in Charlotte. You do not know if the fans will show up and continue coming back.  Not saying it cant happen, and not saying that there may be a bit more upside there in the long long run, but in the short term and medium term, Mason offers more profitability for the tourney.  Atlanta had tennis aspirations at times past and could not get it together.

 

Looking at the logistics of relocating this tournament or staying and expanding it.If relocating to Charlotte it is just not possible to build a half a billion dollar tennis complex with 30 courts by 2025.I guess the tournament could relocate to New York for a year or 2 again but that is not ideal.Mason is really 2 phases of expansion proposed the initial $150 million to be ready by 2025 and $375 million long term plan.Keeping it in Mason is the only way not to logistically screw this tournament and fan base up for years 

3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 Atlanta had tennis aspirations at times past and could not get it together.

 

 

Cincinnati + Columbus + Dayton, combined, are roughly the same size as Atlanta and 2X the size of Charlotte.    

 

But I'd bet that the TV contract is the same, no matter where it is held.  

 

The local corporate sponsorship in Cincinnati is irrelevant since any number of companies larger than Western-Southern could sponsor it.  

 

Assuming that we do retain the tournament, they ought to make the 1899 founding of the tournament much more prominent in the branding.  The tournament needs a story.  Have a few early televised matches at the original site of the tournament:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1341433,-84.469023,188m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, ucnum1 said:

Looking at the logistics of relocating this tournament or staying and expanding it.If relocating to Charlotte it is just not possible to build a half a billion dollar tennis complex with 30 courts by 2025.I guess the tournament could relocate to New York for a year or 2 again but that is not ideal.Mason is really 2 phases of expansion proposed the initial $150 million to be ready by 2025 and $375 million long term plan.Keeping it in Mason is the only way not to logistically screw this tournament and fan base up for years 

I have been to Charlotte many times and just do not see it as a big tennis town (no bigger than most that size). It is akin to  putting a hockey team in Columbus or Atlanta. They may be nice markets and have demographic growth but, you do not have the built in base there and have to develop it from scratch. That takes a lot of money and effort to build that up. On the flip side, take FC Cincinnati as an example. You had a built in soccer market that was built to thrive despite macro demographics that may have indicated otherwise. This is what the risk would be to move the tourney to Charlotte. 

15 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

 This is what the risk would be to move the tourney to Charlotte. 

 

Cincinnati is, by far, the lowest-profile city that hosts an ATP 1000 event (Los Angeles and Miami are the other two American cities).  But Charlotte would also be the smallest city.  My assumption is that sale of the tourney allowed it to move but not to move overseas - otherwise it would decamp for Dubai, Qatar, etc.  

 

This indicates that the local market doesn't really matter that much to the income the thing can generate, since most of that is likely TV.  If there was more income to be had by having higher ticket prices, more robust local sponsorship, etc., then the new owner would be looking to move the event to Chicago, Dallas, or Houston.  

 

 

 

23 hours ago, Lazarus said:

 

 

This again illustrates the weakness of the current site in Mason.  It's a nondescript location where the owners of the tournament aren't able to leverage it to increase the value of surrounding real estate that they also own.  

 

 

I don't think this is true. You could consolidate the sprawling parking into a few garages and unlock a ton of developable land.

20 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

I'm not sure how you could make these statements.  It might cost more money upfront to move the tournament but that doesn't mean long term it would make more money here.  Charlotte is a bigger city that is growing faster then Cincy and has become a financial hub of the south.  They also have more fortune 500 companies then us which likely means more sponsorship money.  I want the tournament to stay but let's not act like we know all the finances at play. 

 

Charlotte has a slightly larger metro population and a few more Fortune 500 companies. But about 9.4 million people live within 100 miles of downtown Cincinnati compared to 7.9 million for Charlotte. We are the center of a larger region to draw people from. The other thing at play is risk. You have to factor that in. Mason is a proven commodity. Charlotte may have a lot of upside but it also has a risk of downside.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

Charlotte may have a lot of upside but it also has a risk of downside.

People are also not considering the tennis infrastructure already in place. Now, I admit I am no expert on Charlotte, but If you look at the club tennis scene in Cincinnati, it is very developed and there is an excellent tennis club scene in town in all areas of the city. This is the built in fan base for the tourney that has kept it strong and growing for the last 100 years.  While Charlotte sizewise may be a comparable city, I would be willing to bet that their tennis infrastructure is no where near as developed as Cincinnati is and that it would be a considerable expense in order to develop this out. 

 

Similarly, this was one of the most overlooked things when FC Cincinnati came to town. Even though Cincinnati may not have checked most of the demographic boxes, it had a very large youth soccer base, was the base for SAY soccer  and there were a lot of just casual soccer fans in town that were itching for a local team to support. 

Edited June 7, 20232 yr by Brutus_buckeye