And, it only makes it more expensive to actually give Central Pkwy a makeover since they'll have to go through the process again whenever they decide to improve Ezzard to Plum.

 

How is that "improved" bike lane/cycletrack even going to work if it's only for 1/4 mile?

Just now, taestell said:

 

It just confirms what we all already knew, that this projects is primarily for the benefit of the stadium/team ownership.

It's possible they are leaving the door open south of Ezzard Charles for a streetcar expansion, but that's a pretty generous reading on the situation.

 

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

That makes sense why the price went down, I was wondering what was cut out of it but cutting out nearly half the length to get it 1/4 cheaper doesn't make much sense to me even with construction prices being inflated. 

I'm worried there are some constraints we are not aware of, especially with it sitting on the tunnel.

 

Overall, I'm not impressed by the project. Only having 1 raised crosswalks in this section is not enough. I don't understand why there is any on-street parking at all and every single one of the minor side streets should be continuous sidewalks.

I'm guessing their thinking is to not do the road south of Ezzard until it's figure out what will go on the CET site.  If an arena ends up there part of the sidewalk and/or road would probably have to get torn up.  

From Wetterich:

 

Clarified to say the segment they're planning with this money is Liberty Street to Ezzard Charles. The overall scope has not changed.

On 3/6/2024 at 1:27 PM, taestell said:

From Wetterich:

 

Clarified to say the segment they're planning with this money is Liberty Street to Ezzard Charles. The overall scope has not changed.

So basically they will need to do another estimate / bidding to move it further south to Central Parkway?

1 hour ago, IAGuy39 said:

So basically they will need to do another estimate / bidding to move it further south to Central Parkway?

No, just a separate ordinance to authorize funding to pay for the construction documents with the same company.

16 hours ago, Dev said:

No, just a separate ordinance to authorize funding to pay for the construction documents with the same company.

Ah I see, thanks for the explanation!

 

So basically when they start the project it still should be from Liberty to the turn on CP?

 

I feel I've been super lazy lately and not looking into things more myself and piggybacking on every one else's knowledge, I appreciate the help!

2 hours ago, IAGuy39 said:

So basically when they start the project it still should be from Liberty to the turn on CP?

We don't know yet for sure, but probably not. It's likely that this is going to be broken into 2 phases.

 

FCC wants this to happen in time for them to host the All-Star game in 2026. So breaking it into 2 pieces is likely due to labor and construction costs eating away at the budget and timeline. I would assume the FCC section is done in 2026, and the southern section after the All-Star game, probably in 2027. The future of the CET site could also be playing a factor, and a potential streetcar expansion could further delay the southern option, if that ends up happening. There just isn't enough publicly known to be certain.

40 minutes ago, Dev said:

We don't know yet for sure, but probably not. It's likely that this is going to be broken into 2 phases.

 

FCC wants this to happen in time for them to host the All-Star game in 2026. So breaking it into 2 pieces is likely due to labor and construction costs eating away at the budget and timeline. I would assume the FCC section is done in 2026, and the southern section after the All-Star game, probably in 2027. The future of the CET site could also be playing a factor, and a potential streetcar expansion could further delay the southern option, if that ends up happening. There just isn't enough publicly known to be certain.

I’ve heard 2028ish on phase 2, the team/city also doesn’t want construction on the 2nd phase during the big 2026 soccer year So they would wait until after to start, I’m thinking construction starts spring of 27

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/03/20/cincinnati-central-parkway-overhaul-federal-money.html
 

Central Parkway received more federal money than it had asked for. They asked for 3.5 and are receiving 4.1 million. Doesn’t mention a timeline. 

Amazing what can happen when your region actually has a US Representative that is fighting to bring federal dollars home.

Cincinnati gets more federal money for Central Parkway overhaul than expected

 

Cincinnati will get more money from Congress for its planned reimagination of Central Parkway than initially thought.

 

An initial version of the federal appropriations bill had $3.5 million for the project. U.S. Rep. Greg Landsman, D-Mount Washington, had requested funding through Congress’ community project appropriations and ended up getting $4.1 million in appropriations bills signed by President Joe Biden.

 

Central Parkway’s first phase will cost $15.5 million.

 

“These are our dollars. We’re all paying taxes,” Landsman told the Business Courier. “It’s really important to bring as many of those dollars back home as possible based on what people are working on. We were very strategic in our advocacy going right to the folks who would be making a call on that. This one was one that had a great deal of interest.”

 

Under the city’s preferred alternative, the planned Central Parkway overhaul will reduce the road to one or two lanes of traffic, plant a tree canopy and add a pedestrian plaza adjacent to FC Cincinnati's TQL Stadium. The goal is to redesign part of the artery to be more pedestrian friendly and spur development.

 

The project, one of 15 local projects that got $15 million in funding because of Landsman’s requests, is important because it connects downtown to Over-the-Rhine and the West End.

 

“It’s a huge part of economic development and how you make this investment and all of the investments around it succeed,” Landsman said. “It’s the kind of city people want to live in and stay in. This could be one of Cincinnati’s postcard spots. This is going to be a destination and one with the kind of experience that young people and families are looking for where you can walk around and not worry about traffic. You can ride your bike, you can take a seat and have a sandwich.”

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/03/20/cincinnati-central-parkway-overhaul-federal-money.html

 

Have any renderings shown how the Central Parkway bend and intersection with Plum Street will be handled? The current configuration doesn't make sense and confuses a lot of drivers.

10 minutes ago, taestell said:

Have any renderings shown how the Central Parkway bend and intersection with Plum Street will be handled? The current configuration doesn't make sense and confuses a lot of drivers.

Last time I heard it’s going to look something similar to this.

10 minutes ago, taestell said:

Have any renderings shown how the Central Parkway bend and intersection with Plum Street will be handled? The current configuration doesn't make sense and confuses a lot of drivers.

I'm not seeing anything from the ground level view, but the feedback before the second meeting was not good on this:
 

Quote

*Match existing conditions at Plum St intersection

The aerial shows essentially existing conditions although the west side is bumped out to accommodate an off-street bike lane. There is also a bump-out at Charles, since the preceding lane is for parking only, so southbound drivers will have to veer right before heading straight through the intersection. This is disappointing; I would think this would be a great spot for a Dutch style roundabout.

 

Is that "off-street bike lane" just going to be different colored sidewalk akin to how it is in front of the stadium currently? I.E. Not really a bike lane, but kind of?

6 minutes ago, Dev said:

 

If they're going to make minimal changes, they should just eliminate the "middle" left turn lane from westbound Central Parkway to Plum Street. In the long term, I think this would be a great location to have a roundabout. If it won't fit in the existing footprint, they can bump into the city-owned parking lot in the Central Parkway bend.

I think I heard that the "turn" was not part of the scope of this project.

21 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Is that "off-street bike lane" just going to be different colored sidewalk akin to how it is in front of the stadium currently? I.E. Not really a bike lane, but kind of?

Yes, although it looks like it will be a more varied color, instead of the current conditions where it's just a different shade of concrete gray. I think the idea here is to copy the Dutch standard for bike infrastructure in cities:

1 hour ago, jwulsin said:

I think I heard that the "turn" was not part of the scope of this project.

Yeah isn't this first portion stopping at Ezzard Charles.  If so there won't be any changes to Plum connection until whenever phase 2 happens.  

1 hour ago, Cincy513 said:

Yeah isn't this first portion stopping at Ezzard Charles. 

 

Am I reading t his correctly?  $15 million for 1,300 feet of roadway?  So $1 million~ per each 100 linear feet? 

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Yes, although it looks like it will be a more varied color, instead of the current conditions where it's just a different shade of concrete gray. I think the idea here is to copy the Dutch standard for bike infrastructure in cities:

 

Interesting. Curious to hear what you think of this, @Dev. I tend to see the one in front of the stadium (and the other small section a few blocks north) to come off as half measures and usually just pop into the street when I approach them as to avoid pedestrians, but the example you posted doesn't seem all that bad? At least the symphony can't park buses in this version. 

 

Still can't believe how poorly the original CPKWY bike lane was done. 

3 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

 

 

 

Still can't believe how poorly the original CPKWY bike lane was done. 

 

The recent extension is as bad or worse.  Instead of spending the money to do it the right way (build a bike path on the landscaped west side of the parkway and/or on the rapid transit ROW) they created terrible conflict points at the Marshall, Monmouth, and Ludlow intersections.  You have to do a complicated maneuver on the bike going northbound to continue in the marked lanes...an actual pain if you're clipped in, meaning people will just break the law and travel diagonally through the intersection. Also, tons of broken glass is already in the new bike lane. 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Interesting. Curious to hear what you think of this, @Dev. I tend to see the one in front of the stadium (and the other small section a few blocks north) to come off as half measures and usually just pop into the street when I approach them as to avoid pedestrians, but the example you posted doesn't seem all that bad? At least the symphony can't park buses in this version.

Yeah that's fair. The example I sent probably isn't 100% useful, given that it's more comparable to a random side street in OTR, not the major thoroughfare. Anyways, the existing raised lane is such a short segment, and the only one in the whole region, makes it tough for pedestrians to understand or notice it. Personally, I think more should have been done to make it clear what it is by doubling the amount of pavement markings and mini-bollards, as well as painting the lane a different color. That only goes so far of course. The only comparisons that I can think of are trails that go through a dense area, like LMST through Loveland, or ORT along Smale. Those are a little different given that the trails themselves are already designed to be mixed-modes.

I think raised, off-street, like what they have planned, is the ideal setup, given that the goal of the project overall is to create a corridor that has a ton of human activity. In other words, it should have enough people on a random Tuesday lunch in the summer, that someone on a bike is going no more than 10 mph, regardless of whether the infrastructure is raised or level, on or off-street. If the overall project is not successful, as in there isn't a large amount of daily non-event traffic, then it'll be this weird purgatory where someone walking their dog down the bike lane gets hit by a MAMIL going at top speed because both users had different expectations on how to use the infrastructure.

In the current renderings, there is a lot of landscape buffering between the pedestrian zone and the bike lane, something that the current setup does not have, so I'm optimistic they are at least trying to keep the modes separated. The pedestrian zone is pretty wide too, so people should not be spilling into the bike lane, other than huge peak times, like a soccer game. Hopefully, the only reason people would have to cross the bike lane would be to get to a bus stop, a parked car, or to cross the street.

Berding on Cincinnati's Central Parkway overhaul: ‘This is not a small-minded project’

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jul 30, 2024

 

U.S. Rep. Greg Landsman, FC Cincinnati co-CEO Jeff Berding and former Mayor Mark Mallory touted the planned re-imagining of Central Parkway at a July 29 event, but the cost remains in flux even as the city will receive $4.1 million in federal funding for the project.

 

“This is not a small-minded project,” Berding said of the first phase, which will run from Ezzard Charles Drive to Liberty Street in front of FCC's TQL Stadium. The project includes narrowing the street to one lane of through traffic and is aimed at bringing more private investment in the corridor. “It’s not just a beautification project.”

 

The plan includes a tree canopy and a pedestrian plaza adjacent to the stadium. The goal is to redesign the part of the artery that connects downtown to Over-the-Rhine and the West End to be more pedestrian friendly and spur development.

 

MORE

Unlike the proposed Liberty Street Diet which sold property back to adjacent property owners, the public ROW is what it is here. The total ROW from building facade to building facade is still very large and there will be a lot of unprogrammed hardscape especially on the back side of music hall, but as a pedestrian crossing the street it will still have a big impact. I thinks this plan shows that change really well:

 

Ironic that the post-road diet Liberty Street will be wider than Central Parkway at the intersection where the two roads meet. I don't think the city ever followed through with the idea of selling any of the land back to the adjacent property owners either. Another failure of the Cranley administration.

Central Pkwy will be so much better with these changes. I love the bike infrastructure.

On 7/30/2024 at 1:11 PM, taestell said:

Ironic that the post-road diet Liberty Street will be wider than Central Parkway at the intersection where the two roads meet. I don't think the city ever followed through with the idea of selling any of the land back to the adjacent property owners either. Another failure of the Cranley administration.

Just like most diets, it didn't really work... Hopefully Central Ave is focused on permanently changing it's habits. 

 

One interesting thing about the Central parkway project when they presented to the city DOTE is that to improve drainage you would normally dig down lower, however this road (obviously) has a subway tunnel under it. So to get the new layout, including the wide sidewalks/plazas,  to work out with storm water they are actually raising the ground level of some of the surrounding sidewalks/plazas and raising the intersection of Liberty and Central slightly. 

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

Hopefully Central Ave is focused on permanently changing it's habits. 

Sorry for being nitpicky, but try to not conflate "Central Ave" and "Central Parkway". It is confusing because the streets are so similarly named and are so close to each other (separated by only one block for a long stretch). 

Spotted a terrible parking job yesterday by a near-mint circa-1990 Geo Prizm:

 

I mean, that thing is in incredible condition.