May 17, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, Pablo said: Here's a list: https://www.motortrend.com/price/under-30000/ I get a kick out of those bite-size crossovers they have now like the Ford EcoSport and Buick Encore. Jeez, just buy a car. Edited May 17, 20232 yr by GCrites80s
May 18, 20232 yr Has Ohio law on tinted windows has changed in the past few years? It seems like everyone now has very darkly tinted windows, even on the windshield, and it makes it much harder for me as a bicyclist to judge whether the driver sees me. When the glass is clear, we can indicate intentions to each other at 4-way stops for example. The clear glass is also helpful when I am behind a car and can see through the glass to see what is up ahead.
May 18, 20232 yr I've been wondering about this too. Usually us car folk hear about stuff like this. People are even tinting their front windshields dark which was super illegal.
May 24, 20232 yr Tanks for nothing! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 28, 20232 yr Transportation Agencies: Improve Your Models or Hire More Lawyers Transportation models are biased in ways that result in inefficient, unfair and environmentally harmful planning decisions. Improve your analysis or prepare to be sued. https://www.planetizen.com/blogs/122817-transportation-agencies-improve-your-models-or-hire-more-lawyers "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 29, 20232 yr WTF?? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 29, 20232 yr New Jersey is a case study in post-World War II highway destruction. It's all about speeding cars through the state to a bottleneck at the bridge and tunnels.
May 29, 20232 yr 7 hours ago, Cleburger said: New Jersey is a case study in post-World War II highway destruction. It's all about speeding cars through the state to a bottleneck at the bridge and tunnels. Yup. The "main street" in my hometown was a 55 mph roadway, lined with businesses. Speed of traffic was usually 65 plus. I liken the experience to growing up in a Mad Max scenario.
May 29, 20232 yr ^ Yep. Former NJ resident here. Before I lived there I used to visit on business. The first time I went to the office I stayed at a hotel on Rt 46. I had booked a rental car from a place literally across the ‘street’. There was absolutely no way to cross the road, in fact, you couldn’t even walk there by going out of your way. There was literally no way to get there from here as a pedestrian. I had to take a 10 min, 2-3 mile cab ride to a place that was 100 yards away. My hovercraft is full of eels
May 30, 20232 yr 21 hours ago, roman totale XVII said: ^ Yep. Former NJ resident here. Before I lived there I used to visit on business. The first time I went to the office I stayed at a hotel on Rt 46. I had booked a rental car from a place literally across the ‘street’. There was absolutely no way to cross the road, in fact, you couldn’t even walk there by going out of your way. There was literally no way to get there from here as a pedestrian. I had to take a 10 min, 2-3 mile cab ride to a place that was 100 yards away. NJ could definitely be the star of the show for a course on incredibly poor planning lol. Yet sadly the legacy lives on in the suburban sprawl plaza-fication we still see being created across the USA.
June 19, 20231 yr America has become destructively self-centered, not to mention physically unhealthy. Our car-centric lifestyles and the government largesse that sustains its interia is to blame. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 20, 20231 yr Similar attacks by US liberals on density, biking. Same false arguments too. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 20, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: Similar attacks by US liberals on density, biking. Same false arguments too. The "leading progressive" newspaper in the US, the New York Times, has similarly fallen off the progressive wagon. While existing "15 minute cities" are very rare, they do tend to be more expensive and cater to the wealthy. That shows their desirability, but just because that is the current situation doesn't mean that a 15-minute city can't be affordable. I would argue that they're not more expensive as a result of their design. Fewer cars means narrower roads that don't have to be repaired nearly as often, for example. And even a somewhat more expensive neighborhood can be more affordable if it removes the NEED to HAVE TO own a car to live there. 'Cause cars ain't cheap no more. Quote Average car price is at an all-time high of $47,000 going into 2022 https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-car-price/ Quote The cost of buying a new or used car has increased substantially in recent years due to inflation and supply chain issues. As of February 2023, the average cost of a used car was $26,510, according to Kelly Blue Book. For a new car, the average cost was $44,697. . . . The annual cost of car ownership in 2022 was $10,728, up from 2021’s yearly cost of $9,666, according to AAA’s Your Driving Costs study. This increase is in line with the most recent Consumer Price Index report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), which shows an increase of 5.75 percent on all transportation costs (except gas) between February 2022 and February 2023. https://www.bankrate.com/insurance/car/cost-of-car-ownership/ Even the average used car, at $26,510, is nearly half the median annual family income in Ohio -- which is only $61,938! That's the median, which means that half of Ohio FAMILIES live on less! Quote Median household income (in 2021 dollars), 2017-2021 $61,938 https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/OH/INC110221 NEEDING to own a car to live in Ohio is likely a huge obstacle for the poor to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" to get out of poverty. If you want people to climb out of poverty, you have to provide sufficient support to make it happen -- affordable housing, affordable transportation, affordable healthcare, affordable childcare, affordable food -- if you can manage all of that at minimum wage you can look for a better job, improve your education, start a business -- and climb out of poverty and pay more taxes to help the next generation and support social security for preceding generations. You can buy an electric bike for $1,000, and if you have balance issues, an electric trike for under $5,000; annual maintenance under $200. Either would generate a lot less noise and pollution in our neighborhoods. Our cities would be a lot more pleasant (and safer, and healthier) if we could save the car for the roadtrip, and live our daily lives within 15 minutes (at a max speed of 20mph on an electric bike, that's about a 5mile radius, about 30 square miles).
June 20, 20231 yr 3 minutes ago, Foraker said: NEEDING to own a car to live in Ohio is likely a huge obstacle for the poor to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" to get out of poverty. If you want people to climb out of poverty, you have to provide sufficient support to make it happen -- affordable housing, affordable transportation, affordable healthcare, affordable childcare, affordable food -- if you can manage all of that at minimum wage you can look for a better job, improve your education, start a business -- and climb out of poverty and pay more taxes to help the next generation and support social security for preceding generations. Until very recently (2017~) - so for upwards of 100 years - there were always dirt-cheap apartments in Ohio's downtowns or within walking or short bus ride distance of them. The problem is that when people's bills are low, they work less. Almost nobody who is poor voluntarily works a second job for 5+ years to save up $100k and get out of their situation.
June 20, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, Lazarus said: The problem is that when people's bills are low, they work less. Almost nobody who is poor voluntarily works a second job for 5+ years to save up $100k and get out of their situation. Second jobs (and sometimes first jobs) also affect their benefits.
June 20, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, Lazarus said: The problem is that when people's bills are low, they work less. Almost nobody who is poor voluntarily works a second job for 5+ years to save up $100k and get out of their situation. Besides the other things mentioned, can you back this up with anything?
June 20, 20231 yr 13 minutes ago, Toddguy said: Besides the other things mentioned, can you back this up with anything? Also 100k over 5 years from a second job is like $20/hr rate (assuming 20hr weeks for 52 weeks a year). Would love to know where these second jobs are so easy to come by paying over 2x the minimum wage.
June 21, 20231 yr 9 hours ago, Toddguy said: Besides the other things mentioned, can you back this up with anything? I like your optimism!
June 21, 20231 yr 9 hours ago, dwolfi01 said: Also 100k over 5 years from a second job is like $20/hr rate (assuming 20hr weeks for 52 weeks a year). Would love to know where these second jobs are so easy to come by paying over 2x the minimum wage. Wait tables, tend bar, deliver pizzas. If you are at a good restaurant, you can easily make $2,000/mo after taxes working 4 shifts per week. My company's warehouse is now paying $18/hr to part-timers. I'm not sure what the full-timers make, but many full-time non-management warehouse jobs in Ohio are paying over $50k with full benefits.
June 21, 20231 yr 10 hours ago, Lazarus said: Wait tables, tend bar, deliver pizzas. If you are at a good restaurant, you can easily make $2,000/mo after taxes working 4 shifts per week. My company's warehouse is now paying $18/hr to part-timers. I'm not sure what the full-timers make, but many full-time non-management warehouse jobs in Ohio are paying over $50k with full benefits. What about all those people who don't work at a "good" restaurant? And what if you have to provide your own vehicle for delivering pizzas -- can you make more than the cost of the car? That full time warehouse job sounds awesome -- with "over $50k" minus taxes you could even afford a NEW car to live in with your kids. (Who needs food?!) Seriously, with the cost of buying and maintaining a car these days, your arguments for "just get another job" or "just get a better job" completely miss the point that MOST jobs would be a lot more desirable at lower pay levels if the workers didn't HAVE to have a car to get to or do the job. Car-centered design of our cities is a hidden tax that particularly hits start-up and small businesses hard, the business that can't afford to pay top dollar for new employees.
June 21, 20231 yr 14 minutes ago, Foraker said: can you make more than the cost of the car? There's this thing called "math" and then there's this thing called "behavior". You need to align math and behavior to get ahead. Does the typical person make significantly more money as a tipped restaurant employee as compared to a cook or dishwasher? Absolutely. Unfortunately, much of that cash income typically goes to cigarettes, marijuana, and alcohol. A straight-edge waiter/waitress or delivery driver who deposits their cash tips and invests a portion of the surplus is like a mythical creature. 22 minutes ago, Foraker said: Car-centered design of our cities is a hidden tax that particularly hits start-up and small businesses hard, the business that can't afford to pay top dollar for new employees. Yes and no. Cities that are difficult for work and delivery trucks to navigate = much more expensive food, deliveries, repairs, etc. When I lived in Boston, I recall that my roommate had a free piano that he acquired from a coworker delivered in the middle of the night because the movers only worked at night to avoid the city's daytime gridlock. I don't know what their numbers were, but maybe they could deliver 6 pianos working overnight as compared to 4 pianos during daylight hours.
June 21, 20231 yr 8 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Does the typical person make significantly more money as a tipped restaurant employee as compared to a cook or dishwasher? Absolutely. Unfortunately, much of that cash income typically goes to cigarettes, marijuana, and alcohol. A straight-edge waiter/waitress or delivery driver who deposits their cash tips and invests a portion of the surplus is like a mythical creature. So you're saying that people are poor because they have poor morals, or just that they lack discipline? Oh boy. 10 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Cities that are difficult for work and delivery trucks to navigate = much more expensive food, deliveries, repairs, etc. When I lived in Boston, I recall that my roommate had a free piano that he acquired from a coworker delivered in the middle of the night because the movers only worked at night to avoid the city's daytime gridlock. I don't know what their numbers were, but maybe they could deliver 6 pianos working overnight as compared to 4 pianos during daylight hours. -- because of all the cars. Replace 90% of the cars with bicycles -- problem solved for your delivery men.
June 21, 20231 yr On 6/20/2023 at 10:48 AM, Foraker said: You can buy an electric bike for $1,000, and if you have balance issues, an electric trike for under $5,000; annual maintenance under $200. Either would generate a lot less noise and pollution in our neighborhoods. Our cities would be a lot more pleasant (and safer, and healthier) if we could save the car for the roadtrip, and live our daily lives within 15 minutes (at a max speed of 20mph on an electric bike, that's about a 5mile radius, about 30 square miles). While this is true, it's also extraordinarily utopian even for Ohio's largest cities. In fact, it's likely utopian even for substantial portions of larger coastal metropolises. Most people cannot live, let alone live and work, within a 5-mile radius of home; this isn't medieval Europe where families would generally stay in the same tiny villages in which they were born. And if you're suggesting that everyone find a job within 5 miles of where they live, I think that's even more out-of-touch than some other points asserted here about making bank with a side hustle. My family comes closer than most to what you're describing: wife works remotely full-time from home (definitely not an option for everyone--many entire industries simply cannot do this), I at least work from a fixed office building and don't need to drive all over the place for work, and we live in a smaller city with many residential options at different price points within 5 miles of the city center. My commute to work is between 4 and 5 miles. And we've looked at getting an e-bike (it was as we were looking at that that I found the article on rising e-bike popularity that I linked upthread), but there's no way that we will be able to go car-free. I can't even fathom the amount of reconstruction of the existing city that would be required to make that viable--you'd almost need to level the entire burg and start over. And I live in the city proper. It would be even worse in the suburbs and even worse in the outlying townships.
June 21, 20231 yr 14 minutes ago, Gramarye said: While this is true, it's also extraordinarily utopian even for Ohio's largest cities. In fact, it's likely utopian even for substantial portions of larger coastal metropolises. Most people cannot live, let alone live and work, within a 5-mile radius of home; this isn't medieval Europe where families would generally stay in the same tiny villages in which they were born. And if you're suggesting that everyone find a job within 5 miles of where they live, I think that's even more out-of-touch than some other points asserted here about making bank with a side hustle. My family comes closer than most to what you're describing: wife works remotely full-time from home (definitely not an option for everyone--many entire industries simply cannot do this), I at least work from a fixed office building and don't need to drive all over the place for work, and we live in a smaller city with many residential options at different price points within 5 miles of the city center. My commute to work is between 4 and 5 miles. And we've looked at getting an e-bike (it was as we were looking at that that I found the article on rising e-bike popularity that I linked upthread), but there's no way that we will be able to go car-free. I can't even fathom the amount of reconstruction of the existing city that would be required to make that viable--you'd almost need to level the entire burg and start over. And I live in the city proper. It would be even worse in the suburbs and even worse in the outlying townships. There's also the considerations that younger children don't do well with being cooped up, will sometimes wander off, don't always listen, and are quite creative about finding ways to get into things they shouldn't. Hell, since Ardyn was born I've become convinced that the popularity of the drive thru has at least as much to do with parenting as convenience, let alone "laziness". And yes, there are people out there kids need to be kept away from. It's pretty much a non starter for parents, especially those with multiple kids.
June 22, 20231 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20231 yr On 6/21/2023 at 11:53 AM, Gramarye said: While this is true, it's also extraordinarily utopian even for Ohio's largest cities. In fact, it's likely utopian even for substantial portions of larger coastal metropolises. Most people cannot live, let alone live and work, within a 5-mile radius of home; this isn't medieval Europe where families would generally stay in the same tiny villages in which they were born. And if you're suggesting that everyone find a job within 5 miles of where they live, I think that's even more out-of-touch than some other points asserted here about making bank with a side hustle. My family comes closer than most to what you're describing: wife works remotely full-time from home (definitely not an option for everyone--many entire industries simply cannot do this), I at least work from a fixed office building and don't need to drive all over the place for work, and we live in a smaller city with many residential options at different price points within 5 miles of the city center. My commute to work is between 4 and 5 miles. And we've looked at getting an e-bike (it was as we were looking at that that I found the article on rising e-bike popularity that I linked upthread), but there's no way that we will be able to go car-free. I can't even fathom the amount of reconstruction of the existing city that would be required to make that viable--you'd almost need to level the entire burg and start over. And I live in the city proper. It would be even worse in the suburbs and even worse in the outlying townships. Ah, Mr. Negativity -- I see your "it's not possible" and highly recommend the book "we can make it incrementally better." Look, I agree that it is completely ridiculous for anyone to think that the US, which has a built environment designed for everyone-has-a-car, could simply buy an electric bike and no longer drive anywhere. It's not going to happen. What if you did ride your bike to work -- you'd take a car off the road and make driving slightly better for your coworker who drives 20 miles to your office building. Now think how much more pleasant driving would be with even 30% fewer cars on the road. If just 30% of all trips now taken by car were done on foot and by bike, we'd be healthier and happier. (Even with electrification, we shouldn't need so many cars, and increased brake dust and tire debris and road damage that cars bring.) I'm not suggesting that we banish cars and we all revert to our own feet, bikes, trains, sailboats, horses for all of our transportation (even if that was my ideal). I'm suggesting that we start thinking about that 15-minute city in our planning and future development so that there will be SOME places where people CAN live without a car, and a lot MORE places where car use can be decreased. Maybe you only need a car to go to work, or to take the kids to hockey, or to visit grandma, or go to the building supply or garden supply store -- but you don't need a car to go to the pub, a park, the library, the grocery, school, or work. "OR" being the operative word here. Having no other way to get anywhere other than by car is the problem that not everyone can afford but is the reality in our 20th century city development pattern. It took us less than a century to build a dense rail network throughout Ohio and another century of driving to dismantle almost all the rails and build out cities to accommodate driving personal cars. If you are saying we should continue on that path, I disagree. Cities around the world provide proof that public and other non-car transportation systems can work and create really nice places to live. People still drive cars in the Netherlands, the world's cycling capitol, as they do in Tokyo, which has an arguably redundant system of subways. Making our city centers carfree is achievable in the US, over the long term, if we plan for it and make incremental improvements over time to get there. Making our cities car-optional or less-car-dependent is an ideal objective, even if it isn't going to be possible immediately.
June 23, 20231 yr I'll take a market approach here. Look at the urban neighborhoods that are walkable, safe and mixed-use -- Ohio City, Tremont, Little Italy, German Village, Short North, Clintonville, Over-The-Rhine, Mt. Adams, Clifton. What else do they have in common? Their housing is relatively expensive compared the rest of the city and even most surrounding suburbs. Why? Because they're in demand and because the supply of such neighborhoods is limited. People want the low-mileage lifestyle which is economically and physically healthy. Isn't that reason enough to supply more of it? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 23, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, KJP said: I'll take a market approach here. Look at the urban neighborhoods that are walkable, safe and mixed-use -- Ohio City, Tremont, Little Italy, German Village, Short North, Clintonville, Over-The-Rhine, Mt. Adams, Clifton. What else do they have in common? Their housing is relatively expensive compared the rest of the city and even most surrounding suburbs. Why? Because they're in demand and because the supply of such neighborhoods is limited. People want the low-mileage lifestyle which is economically and physically healthy. Isn't that reason enough to supply more of it? It absolutely is. But that wasn't the question. And even in those neighborhoods, most households will own a car. The slipperiness of this discussion lies in the distinction between "car dependency" as needing to own a car vs. needing to always use that car whenever you leave your residence. The discussion upthread (including the tangent about side hustles, second jobs, etc.) was about the high and unfortunately rapidly rising costs of owning a car. An e-bike is in addition to that expense, not a much more affordable replacement for it, unless a family reaches the point where they really can forego the car entirely. And even in those good urban neighborhoods you mentioned, most families can't get there.
June 23, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Gramarye said: It absolutely is. But that wasn't the question. And even in those neighborhoods, most households will own a car. The slipperiness of this discussion lies in the distinction between "car dependency" as needing to own a car vs. needing to always use that car whenever you leave your residence. The discussion upthread (including the tangent about side hustles, second jobs, etc.) was about the high and unfortunately rapidly rising costs of owning a car. An e-bike is in addition to that expense, not a much more affordable replacement for it, unless a family reaches the point where they really can forego the car entirely. And even in those good urban neighborhoods you mentioned, most families can't get there. Or maybe families can just reduce car trips, go from two cars to one, or from a new car every few years to once a decade — either way, overall savings.
June 23, 20231 yr On 6/20/2023 at 1:25 PM, Toddguy said: Besides the other things mentioned, can you back this up with anything? https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/sds/docs/loewenstein/NYCCabdrivers.pdf
June 27, 20231 yr 7 hours ago, Lazarus said: 1993 Adjusted for inflation that's $1.89. when you account for significant improvements in fuel economy over the past 30 years, people may not actually be paying that much more of their real income towards gasoline.
June 30, 20231 yr @Gramarye said: While this is true, it's also extraordinarily utopian even for Ohio's largest cities. In fact, it's likely utopian even for substantial portions of larger coastal metropolises...this isn't medieval Europe where families would generally stay in the same tiny villages in which they were born Just speaking to a few points you made. I'm not interested in the upthread argument about second jobs, etc. Much of Europe today was built after WWII. e.g. 60% of the Netherlands was built after WWII and they were all in with the car until the early 70s. To go further with the Netherlands example... What The Netherlands accomplished since had nothing to do with utopia. It changed because people got tired of kids dying under the wheels of cars. And, they didn't change overnight, they did it a little at a time over ~50 years. There was opposition. There were naysayers. Local gov't officials sometimes received death threats. Making U.S. cities more liveable by increasing transport options has nothing to do with utopia either. No one is saying every city has to do it, but it's not unreasonable to respond to the woefully underserved market demand that exists. Furthermore, car-centric development in the U.S. is financially stressing cities. Conservatives who decry the size of gov't should be all in for smarter development patterns that will make cities less dependent on state and federal handouts to meet their infrastructure maintenance obligations (which dwarf their pension obligations). As an example, the 62-year old infrastucure in my neighborhood in Berea (streets, sidewalks, water sewer and storm sewer lines) had to be re-built with a grant from outside city coffers (I forget which level(s) of gov't above the city the money came from). Berea is going to be in even more trouble when the infrastructure maintenance bill comes due for the Sandstone Ridge development, built in the mid-00's and for which the city gave 10-yr tax abatements to home buyers for. Bottom line, financial pressure is likely to motivate many cities to do things differently in the coming years. Cities are starting to get it as we are seeing more attempts to change development patterns and transport options. Oh... and in those U.S walkable neighborhoods, most households own a car because the transport options still suck. NYC is perhaps the biggest exception, but if they want to travel outside the metro area, the transport options degrade rapidly. Edited June 30, 20231 yr by gildone Clarity, omissions
July 5, 20231 yr The impossible paradox of car ownership https://www.vox.com/23753949/cars-cost-ownership-economy-repossession New car prices have risen so much that purchasing one is quickly becoming out of reach for many buyers: A new car cost about $48,000 in May 2023, roughly 25 percent more than one cost in May 2020...consumers are increasingly turning to the used car market, driving up those prices, too. Over almost the same time period, the price of an average used car rose about 50 percent.
July 5, 20231 yr Gotta love Bill Nye's piece on cars in the 1990s "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 5, 20231 yr On 6/27/2023 at 8:53 AM, Ethan said: Adjusted for inflation that's $1.89. when you account for significant improvements in fuel economy over the past 30 years, people may not actually be paying that much more of their real income towards gasoline. When you compare car-for-like-car yes fuel economy has improved. But when you account for how many small to midsized cars have been replaced with SUVs and trucks the picture is far less rosy.
July 9, 20231 yr With just 8% of new vehicles costing under $30,000, ‘it’s the least affordable car market in modern history,’ expert says https://www.allpar.com/threads/with-just-8-of-new-vehicles-costing-under-30-000-‘it’s-the-least-affordable-car-market-in-modern-history-’-expert-says.244214/
July 9, 20231 yr I'm continuously surprised there isn't a market for more economically priced new vehicles. One of my co workers bought a new car for $16,000 just a year or two ago. It's about as cheap as you can go (manual windows for instance), but apparently there isn't much demand for cheap new vehicles, as that model (Chevy Spark I believe) has been discontinued. I'm pretty sure the robust used vehicle market just outcompetes the cheap new vehicle market, but I'm sort of surprised there aren't more people who just want a new car they can rely on for a few years, without all the bells and whistles.
July 9, 20231 yr Automakers shifted their focus to Boomers and people who make a lot of money right out of school such as engineers, tradespeople and nurses. People in other situations are pointed at used cars. This is in contrast to the '80s and '90s when people of many different occupations were buying new cars in their early 20s or even late teens.
July 9, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, GCrites said: Automakers shifted their focus to Boomers and people who make a lot of money right out of school such as engineers, tradespeople and nurses. People in other situations are pointed at used cars. This is in contrast to the '80s and '90s when people of many different occupations were buying new cars in their early 20s or even late teens. What happens in 10-15 years when the Boomers aren't driving? (Or, scarier thought -- they're still driving! 😄)
July 9, 20231 yr I think a lot of people are going to get paid to drive them around in the Boomers' own cars. They are hoarding so much cash that they won't have to do things like go in a home or move to senior condos. Since they have so much more money than everyone else they get to stay in the McMansion and pay their kids well over market rate to quit their warehouse or coffee jobs and put the effort into full time elder care. Edited July 10, 20231 yr by GCrites
July 17, 20231 yr On 7/9/2023 at 1:54 PM, Ethan said: I'm continuously surprised there isn't a market for more economically priced new vehicles. One of my co workers bought a new car for $16,000 just a year or two ago. It's about as cheap as you can go (manual windows for instance), but apparently there isn't much demand for cheap new vehicles, as that model (Chevy Spark I believe) has been discontinued. I'm pretty sure the robust used vehicle market just outcompetes the cheap new vehicle market, but I'm sort of surprised there aren't more people who just want a new car they can rely on for a few years, without all the bells and whistles. So I hit a deer in my Honda Fit over the July 4 weekend and I can attest that used car prices are insane right now. Long story short, I paid idk ~$12,500 for a 2015 Fit EX w/Manual Transmission in 2018 and these days the lower end version of that (LX) with similar miles would go for like $20k, it's insane. Of course Honda killed off the Fit a year or two ago, makes a ton of sense. Needless to say, thankfully my car wasn't totaled because of how insane the market is currently - they valued it at $12k (it's got ~115k miles on it now) and honestly if I got a second appraiser I bet it would've come in higher. It kind of effed me up looking at used car prices before my valuation came back, you can't get most used cars w/decent mileage for under $20k, absolutely insane.
July 18, 20231 yr Glad you and any passengers weren't hurt. Wow, that's a major crash. How fast were you going at impact?
July 18, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, DO_Summers said: Glad you and any passengers weren't hurt. Wow, that's a major crash. How fast were you going at impact? Appreciate it! I was somewhere around 60-65 if I had to guess. Thankfully about 10 miles from my hometown, but still not ideal haha. The crumple zone makes it look worse than it was- thankfully no airbags or anything like that. According to the bodyshop tons of ppl are hitting deer this year, the wait to get my car back is 6-8 weeks hah
July 18, 20231 yr On 5/16/2023 at 12:05 PM, Pablo said: I drive a 24 year old car. Maintaining it is less expensive than new car payments and new car insurance. The key is to get a vehicle with known longevity. Next year I can get historic plates! Be careful with that--technically you can only drive a limited amount with those (to car shows, repairs etc). Certain suburbs with too much time on their hands will pull you over with the historic plates and check on your destination.
July 18, 20231 yr On 7/9/2023 at 1:54 PM, Ethan said: I'm continuously surprised there isn't a market for more economically priced new vehicles. Because the car makers themselves don't want to sell the small cars since the margins are so much lower. If we had to pay cash for cars, we'd have tons of affordable small cars. Instead, almost everyone thinks in terms of payments, and with 6-year loans, most people can afford a $45,000 car. Same problem with student loans. If people had to cash flow college, they wouldn't eff around as much.
July 18, 20231 yr 7 hours ago, Lazarus said: Because the car makers themselves don't want to sell the small cars since the margins are so much lower. It sounds like what you're describing is up selling, and while it's real, it's not unique to the auto industry. If there was demand that could be reasonably satisfied, one of the auto companies would move to meet that demand. 7 hours ago, Lazarus said: If we had to pay cash for cars, we'd have tons of affordable small cars. While this is likely true, it's also a bit silly. Applying this logic to the rest of the economy, and no one but the uber rich would ever buy a house (condo) ever again. While I agree that a monthly payments do a decent job of hiding costs, the people who don't see through this tend to have pretty bad credit, and will struggle to get large loans anyway. I think the more compelling answer is that the people who would be buying cheap new cars, buy used cars instead. Honestly that's probably better anyway, as it greatly extends the life of the car. Less waste and all that.
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