7 hours ago, taestell said:

Whether or not they were "in cahoots", Cranley has been previously accused of the same thing:

Reading through the enquirer article tonight, I do not quite see the "there" there. It seems like it may be a hard case to prove, although the hidden PAC definitely hurts him. A lot of what was released in the Enquirer looks a lot like PG's hubris and an ego play instead of anything overly illegal. Certainly does not place him in a great light, but it seems like there has to be more to it. 

The indictment itself is thin. It imputes wrongdoing rather than demonstrating it. The very phrasing of the interactions points to circumstantial evidence, which is made worse in the context of a project PG said he supported prior to receiving any of the alleged contributions.

 

The lone point at which wrongdoing is more than suggested is when the agents allegedly fed him an idea about rezoning the property (can't recall the details) and he acted on it. That's dicey because he can't argue he was already going to act on something about which he had no foreknowledge. But I'd say that's pretty thin as well in the larger context. 

 

Otherwise it does paint the picture of a egotistical PG, albeit one who seemed to go out of his way to ensure the contributions were above board, ironically enough. 

Edited November 20, 20204 yr by Pdrome513

11 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

Ever notice that when there's employee theft the first person who volunteers to help find the stolen item turns out to be the thief?  I mean, Smitherman's brother owns a goddamn concrete company that is all over all of the projects listed in his fantasy audit!

 

https://www.fox19.com/2020/11/19/vice-mayor-calls-forensic-audit-development-deals/

 

Does the City's Solicitor's office have the resources or personnel available to perform a forensic audit? Is that even a thing you do in this case? It kind of seems like the FBI is already on it and you're not going to find something they haven't.

16 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

How do you scroll past #25?

 

I couldn't figure out a way to do it on that site. The FEC's website has quarterly and annual reports you can flip through that list all of the donors and expenses:

 

https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/fecimg/?C00668640

 

I flipped through casually and there are some oddities in there - like $20,000 in donations from people and LLC's at the same address on Main Street. It looks like the exact same thing PG told the undercover FBI agents to do (you can see the FBI's donations, too, all from LLCs at Illinois addresses). I'm surprised no local journalist has bothered to flip through the FEC documents, look at the large donations, and cross reference them against what developments PG was pushing and/or voting at the time. FOX 19 hinted at it, but didn't do any of the legwork.

15 minutes ago, Ram23 said:

 

I'm surprised no local journalist has bothered to flip through the FEC documents, look at the large donations, and cross reference them against what developments PG was pushing and/or voting at the time. FOX 19 hinted at it, but didn't do any of the legwork.

 

Perhaps this year's nonsense is the beginning of the future - virtually zero oversight of local politicians and development deals by local journalists because there basically aren't any local investigative journalists.

 

In the past, you had investigative journalists competing with each other for stories.  NYC, Washington, and Chicago of course had multiple big papers, but the mid-sized cities like Cincinnati had two or more newspapers as well.  Now there aren't any investigative reporters, let alone a motivation to break a story first. 

 

 

 

 

 

I put this graph together year or so ago. The Cincinnati area has 2,200,000 people. 300,000 of them live in Cincinnati. The other 1,900,000 live in the other 268 units of local government. Cincinnati gets probably 90% of the local media coverage and the other 268 get 10%.

 

How much corrupt stuff is going on out there?

 

I’m sure there’s some sweetheart deals being handed out in the Indiana suburbs.

 

This list doesn't include school districts or RTA or sewer and water districts. Lots of stuff flying under the radar.

 

Actually I think Amelia dissolved so this list is slightly out of date

22 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

I put this graph together year or so ago. The Cincinnati area has 2,200,000 people. 300,000 of them live in Cincinnati. The other 1,900,000 live in the other 268 units of local government. Cincinnati gets probably 90% of the local media coverage and the other 268 get 10%.

 

How much corrupt stuff is going on out there?

 

Clermont County is a cesspool of corruption. They don't even try to hide it, but they know, for the most part, no one is watching. 

I started off feeling really sad for our city yesterday especially after this third arrest.

 

But I woke up this morning actually angry that these people would use their power to line their pockets. 

 

The Tamaya Dennard one almost seemed like she was begging for help, it was pretty pathetic, but Pastor and Sittenfeld were extremely overt.

 

Hopefully now we can clean up and everyone gets a fair shot here to develop and we can have a more open economy. Word gets around and no doubt many developers just said we aren't going in there anymore.

 

I feel bad for their families but not for them.

8 minutes ago, IAGuy39 said:

I feel bad for their families but not for them.

 

I don't feel bad for political wives - they sign up for a ton of drama.  When my dad held a minor office when I was a kid we received threatening phone calls, had our house vandalized, had tires slashed, and people didn't let their kids play with myself and my brothers.   

2 hours ago, IAGuy39 said:

I started off feeling really sad for our city yesterday especially after this third arrest.

 

But I woke up this morning actually angry that these people would use their power to line their pockets. 

 

The Tamaya Dennard one almost seemed like she was begging for help, it was pretty pathetic, but Pastor and Sittenfeld were extremely overt.

 

Hopefully now we can clean up and everyone gets a fair shot here to develop and we can have a more open economy. Word gets around and no doubt many developers just said we aren't going in there anymore.

 

I feel bad for their families but not for them.

Dennard was interesting. She definitely was one of more desperation and ability to mismanage money. She was nice, but every time i met her, you could tell she did not understand much about finance and money. 

 

Pastor clearly seemed corrupt. Even campaigning, there always seemed like there was something or somebody who was pushing him to get him elected. Something just seemed off there.

 

Sittenfeld, I think got corrupted by power and saw how many politicians were doing things and becoming kingmakers. He saw a time where he may not be front and center in local politics and may have been in a different role (because term limits and such) but still wanted to make his influence known. 

 

I am not willing to pass judgment on PG. I think he is an ok guy, not a huge fan of his, but what I have seen so far does not make me want to pass judgment for or against him. I personally need to see more.

PG posted a statement today on Twitter and the peanut gallery responded.  PG = Prison Girlfriend.  

 

I have no idea why politicians waste their time "engaging" the public on Twitter since the whole thing turns on you in an instant.  Live by the bird, die by the bird.  

Nah, prisoners are super nice to corrupt politicians since the thought is that the pol might help them on the outside.

You can limit who can respond to your tweets. They would still be able to quote tweet, but they wouldn't be able to just reply to the original. Would probably cut down on all of that. I don't know why more people don't do that.

22 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

You can limit who can respond to your tweets. They would still be able to quote tweet, but they wouldn't be able to just reply to the original. Would probably cut down on all of that. I don't know why more people don't do that.

From a political standpoint it is a bit tricky. If you are blocking people who you represent it is not a good look. Even if they did not vote for you, you still need to be a representative of all the people in the city. 

Just now, Brutus_buckeye said:

From a political standpoint it is a bit tricky. If you are blocking people who you represent it is not a good look. Even if they did not vote for you, you still need to be a representative of all the people in the city. 

You can do it on an individual tweet basis. People could all still read your tweets, tweet at you, and quote tweet. You just wouldn't have a stream of negative tweets right under your statement. 

1 minute ago, ryanlammi said:

You can do it on an individual tweet basis. People could all still read your tweets, tweet at you, and quote tweet. You just wouldn't have a stream of negative tweets right under your statement. 

yes, but my point is that it may look bad from an optics standpoint.

 

 

Councilman Jeff Pastor agrees to suspension from office

 

Indicted Cincinnati Councilman Jeff Pastor has agreed to be suspended from office, Attorney General David Yost announced Monday evening.

 

“While allegations of public corruption are resolved in the courtroom, a suspension is the right course of action as even the appearance of corruption has no place in government," Yost said in a statement.

 

The suspension will be a paid one under state law, but the city could attempt to recover Pastor's $65,000-per-year salary if he is convicted of any of the bribery, money laundering, extortion and honest services fraud charges he faces. Pastor has pleaded not guilty.

 

...

 

Under state statute, Hamilton County Probate Judge Ralph Winkler, a Republican, shall appoint a temporary replacement for Pastor.

It appears that Pastor will technically still be a councilman, but will have someone appointed by Judge Winkler to fulfill his duties on council pending the outcomes of his trial. I'm not fully prepped on the state law being used here, but if Pastor did end up resigning or being removed from office, then it appears Chris Smitherman would name his replacement. But until that point, Winkler's replacement will be used. 

On 11/20/2020 at 4:54 PM, GCrites80s said:

Nah, prisoners are super nice to corrupt politicians since the thought is that the pol might help them on the outside.

 

Plus the three of them can learn to code.  

 

^I'm not sure what the minimum required sentence was, but in my opinion this is a pretty lengthy sentence as compared to the sum of money involved. There was more money involved in both Pastor and Sittenfeld's situations so we should expect longer sentences for them but the specifics along with different lawyers mean we could very well see one or both of them walk out of the courtroom with slaps on the wrist, in which case we can expect a wave of twitter anger.     

On 11/23/2020 at 6:32 PM, ryanlammi said:

It appears that Pastor will technically still be a councilman, but will have someone appointed by Judge Winkler to fulfill his duties on council pending the outcomes of his trial. I'm not fully prepped on the state law being used here, but if Pastor did end up resigning or being removed from office, then it appears Chris Smitherman would name his replacement. But until that point, Winkler's replacement will be used. 

 

This could get interesting:

 

 

I think the easy option for Winkler would be to name a veteran Republican who has no interest in running in 2021. A professional who the public has voted for before.

 

An interesting pick would be Amy Murray since she was elected in 2017 and left to join the soon-to-end Trump Administration.

On 11/25/2020 at 10:24 AM, ryanlammi said:

I think the easy option for Winkler would be to name a veteran Republican who has no interest in running in 2021. A professional who the public has voted for before.

 

An interesting pick would be Amy Murray since she was elected in 2017 and left to join the soon-to-end Trump Administration.

I think the goal is to get new blood and allow them to establish a name so they can run in 2021. Since Murray can’t run, it won’t be her. 
 

I think Murray has higher ambitions and is going to make a run at Chabots seat 

On 11/28/2020 at 9:57 AM, Brutus_buckeye said:

I think the goal is to get new blood and allow them to establish a name so they can run in 2021. Since Murray can’t run, it won’t be her. 
 

I think Murray has higher ambitions and is going to make a run at Chabots seat 

 

That shouldn't be the goal of a judge trying to ensure stability, integrity, and honesty in a governmental body that has has 1/3 of its members arrested.

 

Yes, that should be the Hamilton County Republican Party's goal, but Judge Winkler's role is not to build the bench of future Republican candidates in Ohio.

On 11/28/2020 at 9:57 AM, Brutus_buckeye said:

I think the goal is to get new blood and allow them to establish a name so they can run in 2021. Since Murray can’t run, it won’t be her. 
 

I think Murray has higher ambitions and is going to make a run at Chabots seat 

Chabot's district does not include Hyde Park does it?

 

22 minutes ago, Jimmy Skinner said:

Chabot's district does not include Hyde Park does it?

 

Not currently, but that would likely change after redistricting.

23 minutes ago, Jimmy Skinner said:

Chabot's district does not include Hyde Park does it?

 

Redistricting before the next election. Chabot has claimed he is going to run in 2022, so I'm sure he got assurances from the State GOP that he would continue to run in a safe district.

Judge appoints interim Cincinnati councilmember

 

 

Attorney Steve Goodin will replace Jeff Pastor on the Cincinnati City Council on an interim basis pending Pastor's trial on corruption charges.

 

Hamilton County Probate Court Judge Ralph "Ted" Winkler made the appointment Monday morning.

 

Goodin, a Republican, was under consideration for a council seat earlier this year when Councilwoman Amy Murray, also a Republican, resigned to take a job in the Trump administration in Washington D.C. Goodin has experience with city government, having served as outside counsel on pension matters.

 

Goodin's appointment will continue until the outcome of Pastor's corruption trial on honest services wire fraud, bribery and extortion. If Pastor is acquitted, he could reclaim his seat under state law.

I forgot that Murray left back in March. Wonder if she's regretting the move now?

 

How many actual elected councilmembers are currently on City Council?

So far Murray and Dennard are no longer on council permanently and have been replaced.

 

Pastor has been replaced on an interim basis until after his day in court.

 

Sittenfeld is currently still a sitting councilmember, but I could maybe see him doing something similar as Pastor where someone is named on a temporary basis until he is cleared of wrongdoing or found guilty.

 

Murray was term limited before the 2021 election, so I don't think she regrets the decision. Even if it was with the Trump administration, she was an administrative person that wasn't a political position. So it's not like she has any stink on her from Trump.

6 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

So far Murray and Dennard are no longer on council permanently and have been replaced.

 

Pastor has been replaced on an interim basis until after his day in court.

 

Sittenfeld is currently still a sitting councilmember, but I could maybe see him doing something similar as Pastor where someone is named on a temporary basis until he is cleared of wrongdoing or found guilty.

 

Murray was term limited before the 2021 election, so I don't think she regrets the decision. Even if it was withdown the Trump administration, she was an administrative person that wasn't a political position. So it's not like she has any stink on her from Trump.

Sittenfeld will have to step down on an interim basis or else the Attorney General will essentially force him out until his case is resovled. 

14 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Sittenfeld will have to step down on an interim basis or else the Attorney General will essentially force him out until his case is resovled. 

There isn't a mechanism to temporarily step down other than an agreement with the attorney general, is there? I know that Winkler has the power to remove from office as well, but is that also a suspension or a permanent removal? Either he resigns and allows his dem colleagues to nominate a replacement or he leaves it up to Winkler.

 

 

This is a horribly sad situation...now I can't stop thinking about the dennison hotel building demolition on main street and the joseph auto sweet heart deal...

 

I can't help but think every deal that was made with developers is being looked at with a fine tooth comb for any irregularities. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, JohnClevesSymmes said:

There isn't a mechanism to temporarily step down other than an agreement with the attorney general, is there? I know that Winkler has the power to remove from office as well, but is that also a suspension or a permanent removal? Either he resigns and allows his dem colleagues to nominate a replacement or he leaves it up to Winkler.

 

Things are a little bit wonky because of the fact that Cincinnati is a charter city, so we have many of our own rules and processes for how our city government functions. My understanding is that when there is a gap in our Charter, it falls back to state law, but there may be different legal interpretations in some cases. For example, there was a discussion a few years ago about whether it would be possible to recall the mayor since Cincinnati's Charter does not lay out any procedure for doing so. Some argued that the state's procedure could be used, but others argued that it couldn't because of Cincinnati's right to home rule. Likewise, our Charter lies out a procedure for replacing a City Council member who resigns or otherwise leaves office, but it does not address what would happen in the case of a suspension.

1 hour ago, JohnClevesSymmes said:

I know that Winkler has the power to remove from office as well, but is that also a suspension or a permanent removal? Either he resigns and allows his dem colleagues to nominate a replacement or he leaves it up to Winkler.

To be clear, Winkler does not have the unilateral ability to remove someone from office. There are 2 separate processes going on that both involve Winkler:

 

-Suspension from office
Initiated by either the State AG or the County Prosecutor. If approved, the County Probate Court, Winkler, picks a temporary replacement to keep the seat occupied. This is what has happened to Pastor. He reached an agreement with the AG, which just shortened the process. Yost has already filed to have Sittenfeld suspended as well.

-Forced removal from office
Initiated by elector petition. This gets tried in the County Probate Court, again Winkler, with the City Solicitor acting as the prosecution. If successful, the City's replacement procedures take effect. This was filed by COAST against Pastor. Last week, he didn't show to the pre-trial hearing though the City asked for more time to present a case. Pastor previously selected Smitherman and Murray to choose his replacement. I haven't seen if anyone has filed this against Sittenfeld but you would imagine someone will soon.

 

^ Here is the process that was followed to suspend Pastor from office and is now being used by the AG against Sittenfeld:

 

https://codes.ohio.gov/orc/gp3.16v1

 

Assuming the same process unfolds (albeit with less cooperation on the part of Sittenfeld), Winkler, a Republican, will get to name Sittenfeld's temporary replacement.

 

Sittenfeld could have a council member of his choice pick his replacement if he resigns (permanently), but I think he's way too into himself to do that. We will likely see him suspended by the state attorney general since his circumstances are virtually identical to Pastor's, meaning Winkler will get to pick another council member.

 

It's possibly Sittenfeld will be on the mayoral primary ballot next spring while he is suspended from council.

Edited December 1, 20204 yr by Ram23

^He's term limited from City Council. He is ineligible to run.

PG is temporarily stepping down from council:

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/p-g-sittenfeld-to-temporarily-step-down-from-cincinnati-city-council-amid-federal-charges

 

 

 

 

As with Pastor (which Winkler did not choose to do), the easy pick for a replacement would be someone not seeking office again, who has the experience needed to work at city hall. Roxanne Qualls, Jim Tarbell, and Charlie Luken could be easy picks who still meet the general stances of the person being temporarily suspended.

My immediate questions about this is whole debacle:

 

1) Do they just maintain the current staff from the suspended councilmembers? Can they bring in their own people?

2) Does the city have to pay full salaries to the temps? Are they then just out that money if either person avoids being found guilty?

14 minutes ago, ryanlammi said:

My immediate questions about this is whole debacle:

 

1) Do they just maintain the current staff from the suspended councilmembers? Can they bring in their own people?

2) Does the city have to pay full salaries to the temps? Are they then just out that money if either person avoids being found guilty?

 

Re: number 2, the state law requires the city to pay, in full, both the suspended candidate and the temporary replacement until the charges are resolved.

 

I'm sorry, but in no way would Rayshon Mack or Jim Neil qualify as "a real honest, clean person that wouldn’t be also divisive."

We'll see what he ends up doing, but if he picks a Republican instead of a Democrat or Independent, that will not be ok. Flynn would have been an ok choice, but I think with his announcement that he is running for council, I do think it's inappropriate to replace Sittenfeld with someone who is seeking a full term.

41 minutes ago, taestell said:

And PG should just step down so his Democratic colleagues can fill his seat with another Democrat.

 

He's convinced himself that he's innocent and thinks quitting council would hurt his mayoral campaign. He's probably picturing a triumphant return to City Hall a month before the election.

 

The latest stats I could find are from 2018 - and of the 79,704 people to face federal charges that year - only 320 went to trial and won. That's a long shot. And even if PG manages to get an acquittal, it will probably be the end of his career in politics. Tamaya Dennard and Jeff Pastor will likely both be sitting behind bars while a rich, young, white male walks on what are virtually the same charges (minus some nuance). Talk about bad optics for a progressive Democrat.

 

 

The circumstances of each of the three cases do seem quite different, and we don't know the outcome in 2 of the 3 cases, so I wouldn't start playing identity politics quite yet.

1) is PG progressive? I don't really label him that way. I see him as a young establishment Democrat. Just because he's young and says he's progressive doesn't really mean that he is. 

 

2) The only way I see PG still running and having a shot at the mayoral campaign is if the FBI agrees to dismiss charges without a trial well before the primary. They might even have to apologize to him for the initial charges to be able to win. That's got to be his primary legal route is to convince the FBI they don't have a case. I'm not a lawyer, so I won't comment on his chances. 

 

I've never been a big fan of Sittenfeld. I can see how he could be innocent if the FBI is playing fast and loose with the quotes in the indictment, but I'm not convinced he is innocent.

 

Tamaya certainly is guilty, and the quotes released of Pastor asking for a cut of the development profits for his vote are really damning.