May 24, 20241 yr Not sure if this is the correct place or not, but does anyone know if gas tax revenue by county is reported anywhere? I haven't been able to find anything. I've had a small personal project going to see if/how badly the big cities/counties are being hurt by the distribution of different Ohio state tax revenues sitting in excel for a while, and someone on reddit who recently claimed cities are subsidized by rural and suburban areas finally got me to start working with those numbers again. I'm guessing the gas tax revenue by county would be a similar percentage to the income tax revenue, if not a little higher due to more people visiting the bigger counties by car and more freight diesel tax revenue. Obviously there will be some other money spent in different counties based on state routes and interstate projects too. But just some quick figures based on that income tax revenue hunch from the Ohio Department of Taxation 2023 annual report... --In total County and municipality distributions, Franklin/Cuyahoga/Hamilton counties pay 34% of state income tax revenue, make up up 28.5% of the population, and received about 17% of state gas tax distributions. --In total County and municipality distributions, the top 12 most populated counties pay 63% of state income tax revenue, make up 56% of the population, and received 36% of state gas tax distributions. --The top 25% or 22 most populated Ohio Counties make up 72% of the population and received 48% of gas tax $$ --The bottom 75% or 66 populated Ohio Counties pay 20% of state income tax revenue, make up 28% of the population and received 52% of gas tax $$ --There are 3 counties (Vinton, Morgan, and Noble) that received more in gas tax distributions than they owed in state income taxes.
August 29, 2024Aug 29 Quote Governor Mike DeWine announces that Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) Director Jack Marchbanks will step down as Director on September 30, 2024, and that Pamela Vest Boratyn will be nominated to serve as ODOT Director beginning October 1, 2024. Boratyn will need to be confirmed by the Ohio Senate. https://hoodline.com/2024/08/ohio-department-of-transportation-welcomes-new-director-as-jack-marchbanks-steps-down/
October 4, 2024Oct 4 Not exactly an ODOT project or news, but ODOT has a survey to help determine transportation needs across the state. I was pleasantly surprised how many of the questions were oriented towards driving alternatives (walking, biking, public transit, rail). Fingers crossed this makes a difference! https://www.odotsurvey.com
October 4, 2024Oct 4 17 minutes ago, mrCharlie said: Not exactly an ODOT project or news, but ODOT has a survey to help determine transportation needs across the state. I was pleasantly surprised how many of the questions were oriented towards driving alternatives (walking, biking, public transit, rail). Fingers crossed this makes a difference! https://www.odotsurvey.com ODOT has done surveys in the past. I'm familiar with ones they've done going back into the 1990s. The results have consistently shown strong public support for more rail and transit funding. But ODOT doesn't entirely control their own budget, although they have more flexibility than they're often willing to admit. And since Ohio is a pay-to-play state, and the voters aren't contributing to campaigns the way the special interests are, the status quo/feedback loop is always going to win out. ODOT is an ATM machine for the road contractors and as long as Ohio is a pay-to-play state, the money is going to stay with those who have the money. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 4, 2024Oct 4 10 hours ago, KJP said: ODOT has done surveys in the past. I'm familiar with ones they've done going back into the 1990s. The results have consistently shown strong public support for more rail and transit funding. But ODOT doesn't entirely control their own budget, although they have more flexibility than they're often willing to admit. And since Ohio is a pay-to-play state, and the voters aren't contributing to campaigns the way the special interests are, the status quo/feedback loop is always going to win out. ODOT is an ATM machine for the road contractors and as long as Ohio is a pay-to-play state, the money is going to stay with those who have the money. Do any of the advocacy groups (like All Aboard) have any sway?
October 4, 2024Oct 4 40 minutes ago, JB said: Do any of the advocacy groups (like All Aboard) have any sway? They can get more people to respond to the survey but none of them have any money to contribute to campaigns in a meaningful way. There is no rail industry construction supply group for Ohio, though I tried starting one a dozen years ago. And even if there was, few of them have any idea how do lobby for public dollars because there's been little or no public money for rail to acquaint them how to do it. It's a chicken-and-egg situation, which means we have to evolve toward it -- something that will take many years, likely decades. Think of where we are if the road-building industry is our model. The Ohio Department of Highways was created by the legislature in 1905 to get Ohio farmers' shipments out of the mud-rutted roads. We're not even at that point yet. Yes, we have an Ohio Rail Development Commission. AAO's predecessor OARP created that, thanks to the late-OARP President Howard Harding and State Rep. Bob Hagan in 1994. But most of ORDC's funding was taken away from it shortly after it was created. It was taken by the railroads, no less. ORDC was funded by the corporate franchise tax and the railroads didn't want to pay the tax so they paid the legislature to get rid of it, leaving ORDC to beg for $4 million per year every two years from the Ohio General Assembly. All of that goes to shortline freight railroad capital projects. ORDC also gets some highway money to pay for road-rail grade crossing improvements. In 1996, ORDC was about ready to ask the legislature for $60 million from the state capital budget for start developing 3C Corridor, Cleveland-Pittsburgh and Cleveland-Akron-Canton commuter rail. Governor Voinovich's Chief of Staff Paul Mifsud came to that ORDC commissioners meeting and public berated them for being "in outer space" for even considering funding for passenger rail. Mifsud, by the way, later went to prison on corruption charges. It would be another 10 years before passenger rail planning began taking hold again, this time for the Ohio Hub plan that soon attracted $400 million from the feds for developing 3C Corridor. We all know what happened with that. It set back Ohio at least 15 years in passenger rail development. AAO was the fiscal agent for a lobbying campaign called Linking Ohio during that 3C effort. We paid out money to lobbyists, advertising companies, polling firms and more. We oversaw more money (about $100,000 which is small for a lobbying effort) during that campaign than we had seen in a decade, going back to when I leading a two-corridor campaign called the CTC Corridor Campaign and the 3C Corridor Campaign. I raised $100,000 in a couple of years back then which helped get the Ohio Hub planning going and to get Ohio to join the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Commission. I worked with Ohio Republican Senator Jeff Armbruster (whose Lorain County-based family got rich owning gas stations of all things) to get Ohio to join MIPRC. Today, AAO is much more broad-based than when I was among those running it. There was anywhere from 1-3 of us involved on a daily basis with more involved on a weekly basis. Today, it seems like more people are involved and that's good. Ohio elected officials pay attention to likely voters. And they pay attention to money. They use the money to manipulate voters and to get other lawmakers to fall in line. I've had lawmakers brazenly tell me they can't (not just won't, but can't) do anything for passenger rail unless we donate to their campaign. And the amounts that make a difference are in the tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and it won't start turning for you in Ohio unless you grease it. Nobody is greasing it for passenger rail. By law, Amtrak can't lobby. Ohio rail industry suppliers don't know how. And the likes of AAO don't have any money. Companies like Brightline do, and that's where our salvation may lie. Ohio's politics are a lot like Florida's and Brightline greased the wheels the down there for Miami-Orlando. Now they are focused on Las Vegas-LA/Rancho Cucamonga. They aren't going to take a hard look at Ohio or anywhere else until after these Service Development Plans are done and there's some data for them to look at. Then Brightline will compare the more than two dozen SDPs around the country, decide where they want to invest, and force the others to wait their turn. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 4, 2024Oct 4 I did the survey. It only takes about 5 minutes and it can't hurt for more of us to get our opinion out there.
October 4, 2024Oct 4 Yes, by all means speak up. If we don't, the road gang will use it as ammo for their highways uber alles cause. So it will actually hurt if you DON'T speak up. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 12Feb 12 Preliminary US-23 Delaware County Feasability Study is out: https://publicinput.com/q554343 There's a lot to look at so take your time. Lots of RIROs is all I can say. Edited February 12Feb 12 by GCrites
February 12Feb 12 2 hours ago, GCrites said: Preliminary US-23 Delaware County Feasability Study is out: https://publicinput.com/q554343 There's a lot to look at so take your time. Lots of RIROs is all I can say. I’m sure whatever decision is chosen will only be helpful for a few years. Then they will say it needs more lanes.
February 12Feb 12 30 minutes ago, Pablo said: $1,600,000,000.00 Sorry, there just isn’t any money for rail! edit: I’m being sarcastic in this post Edited February 12Feb 12 by VintageLife
February 12Feb 12 3 hours ago, GCrites said: Preliminary US-23 Delaware County Feasability Study is out: https://publicinput.com/q554343 There's a lot to look at so take your time. Lots of RIROs is all I can say. 16 minutes ago, Pablo said: $1,600,000,000.00 9 minutes ago, VintageLife said: Sorry, there just isn’t any money for rail! $1.6B for that 23 mile road upgrade is roughly 2.5x what a respectable 3C&D passenger rail service would cost that would serve more than 60% of Ohio’s population. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 12Feb 12 11 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: $1.6B for that 23 mile road upgrade is roughly 2.5x what a respectable 3C&D passenger rail service would cost that would serve more than 60% of Ohio’s population. It’s even crazier because that is just one project they have. There is so much damn money in this state, we could have rail from every big city
February 12Feb 12 11 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: $1.6B for that 23 mile road upgrade is roughly 2.5x what a respectable 3C&D passenger rail service would cost that would serve more than 60% of Ohio’s population. This project will help someone living in Lewis Center save a minute and a half driving to Orange Theory. Rail...smdh...how elitist of you.
February 12Feb 12 14 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: $1.6B for that 23 mile road upgrade is roughly 2.5x what a respectable 3C&D passenger rail service would cost that would serve more than 60% of Ohio’s population. Ha, someone did the math - it’s $69M / mile. Nice. At least we’ll be able to remember it. (Technically $69.56M per mile) When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 12Feb 12 30 minutes ago, VintageLife said: It’s even crazier because that is just one project they have. There is so much damn money in this state, we could have rail from every big city but Ohians need a faster route from Columbi to Waldo for some reason over all else. We wish NOACA had the same pull and results with ODOT and the Statehouse as impressively as MORPC always does.
February 14Feb 14 Wow I hope this means my dream of spending $2 billion to turn Kinsman into a full blown highway out to Burton is closer to reality... It amazes me how little financial restraint/responsibility/common sense we have in this country when it comes to road and highway projects. But some of the most obvious rail and public transit projects that would be more useful and provide more of a monetary return have no hope of being built.
February 14Feb 14 24 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said: Wow I hope this means my dream of spending $2 billion to turn Kinsman into a full blown highway out to Burton is closer to reality... It amazes me how little financial restraint/responsibility/common sense we have in this country when it comes to road and highway projects. But some of the most obvious rail and public transit projects that would be more useful and provide more of a monetary return have no hope of being built. Probably the reason being is that with a state like Ohio with stagnant population growth, it very difficult to justify spending billions on rail projects.
February 14Feb 14 18 minutes ago, vulcana said: Probably the reason being is that with a state like Ohio with stagnant population growth, it very difficult to justify spending billions on rail projects. You missed KJP's analysis above that rail would actually save the state money. Plus, we already have more roads and bridges than we can afford to maintain. So if population growth is the standard, we should be downgrading rural roads to gravel to make them easier to maintain and put a moratorium on any new construction. I don't expect any of that to happen. Just more potholes and whinging about potholes.
March 4Mar 4 The US 23 corridor should be upgraded to a freeway between Delaware and Columbus, though the latest proposal does not include this. Between Circleville and Columbus, only incremental improvements are planned. However, a full interstate corridor—Interstate 73—may be back on the table. Study to examine proposed Interstate 73 in Ohio On February 25, 2025, the Ohio Legislature introduced House Bill 54, a measure designed to improve the state's transportation infrastructure and services. The bill allocates up to $2 million in Fiscal Year 2026 for a feasibility study on developing an Interstate Route 73 corridor to Toledo. The study will evaluate the potential for a new transportation route and its impact on regional development and economic growth.
March 4Mar 4 2 hours ago, seicer said: The US 23 corridor should be upgraded to a freeway between Delaware and Columbus, though the latest proposal does not include this. Between Circleville and Columbus, only incremental improvements are planned. However, a full interstate corridor—Interstate 73—may be back on the table. Study to examine proposed Interstate 73 in Ohio On February 25, 2025, the Ohio Legislature introduced House Bill 54, a measure designed to improve the state's transportation infrastructure and services. The bill allocates up to $2 million in Fiscal Year 2026 for a feasibility study on developing an Interstate Route 73 corridor to Toledo. The study will evaluate the potential for a new transportation route and its impact on regional development and economic growth. Building more highways when we can't keep up with maintenance on our existing roads and bridges is -- what's the word? Certainly not "financially responsible."
March 4Mar 4 I can't read the linked article. But here's some images I found on http://www.i73.com/ Assuming this route matches the one discussed in the article I have some questions. I can see the logic of an interstate between Columbus and Toledo, even up to Lansing the proposed routing more or less makes sense to me. But North of Lansing and South of Columbus I'm not sure I understand the proposed routing. Most of the unbuilt sections of this route are very rural, and I'm not sure why this route is going where it does. It seems like south of Columbus it should connect with I-77 sooner rather than carving a new route, probably prior to Charleston. The section through West Virginia seems like an unnecessary new route, and the section between I-40 and I-77 also seems unnecessary. I realize this isn't the best forum to get a steelman of the argument for this I-73 corridor, but I would be curious to hear one. Does anyone know the best arguments for this corridor? Is it meant to reroute freight similar to the proposed I-69? I genuinely don't know. Real question.
March 5Mar 5 My mother-in-law used to live in North Myrtle Beach. It was a surprisingly annoying drive, really not great route from here to Columbus. I wouldn't exactly advocate building a highway to it though - and one you are there, it's kind of awful.
March 5Mar 5 15 hours ago, Ethan said: I can't read the linked article. But here's some images I found on http://www.i73.com/ Assuming this route matches the one discussed in the article I have some questions. I can see the logic of an interstate between Columbus and Toledo, even up to Lansing the proposed routing more or less makes sense to me. But North of Lansing and South of Columbus I'm not sure I understand the proposed routing. Most of the unbuilt sections of this route are very rural, and I'm not sure why this route is going where it does. It seems like south of Columbus it should connect with I-77 sooner rather than carving a new route, probably prior to Charleston. The section through West Virginia seems like an unnecessary new route, and the section between I-40 and I-77 also seems unnecessary. I realize this isn't the best forum to get a steelman of the argument for this I-73 corridor, but I would be curious to hear one. Does anyone know the best arguments for this corridor? Is it meant to reroute freight similar to the proposed I-69? I genuinely don't know. Real question. They are probably hoping to boost economic development along the Kentucky - West Virginia border. Both those states punch way above their weight politically, especially in the US Senate. Perhaps they want to put people to work in that region as well. Let's keep in mind that part of the reason we build highways is it's a politically popular way to maintain a skilled construction workforce that might be needed in the event of disaster.
March 5Mar 5 19 minutes ago, E Rocc said: They are probably hoping to boost economic development along the Kentucky - West Virginia border. Both those states punch way above their weight politically, especially in the US Senate. Perhaps they want to put people to work in that region as well. Let's keep in mind that part of the reason we build highways is it's a politically popular way to maintain a skilled construction workforce that might be needed in the event of disaster. Trust me, there is plenty of work to be had without building completely new roads. Just look around and you can probably see for yourself where it’s needed. Making this an interstate seems absurd. If you want a better connection between Columbus and Toledo, upgraded this section to an interstate look-alike just like US 30, Ohio 11, US 422 etc etc etc.
March 5Mar 5 Doesn't making it an Interstate get you a higher federal match for construction and maintenance? Like 90-10 as opposed to 80-20? And, you're still doing the upgrade.
March 5Mar 5 13 hours ago, mrCharlie said: My mother-in-law used to live in North Myrtle Beach. It was a surprisingly annoying drive, really not great route from here to Columbus. I wouldn't exactly advocate building a highway to it though - and one you are there, it's kind of awful. People make that drive once or twice then start shopping for cheap airfares.
March 5Mar 5 15 minutes ago, GCrites said: People make that drive once or twice then start shopping for cheap airfares. We considered that, but then it's hard to bail a few days early. Edited March 5Mar 5 by mrCharlie
March 5Mar 5 50 minutes ago, mrCharlie said: We considered that, but then it's hard to bail a few days early. And you're strictly limited what you can bring along. And the sardines thing. Especially with multiple people and double especially with multiple drivers, it's better to drive when possible.
March 5Mar 5 2 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said: Doesn't making it an Interstate get you a higher federal match for construction and maintenance? Like 90-10 as opposed to 80-20? And, you're still doing the upgrade. Even if that were the case, you're still talking about a big spend to build the new highway (even if you can get 90% from the Feds) and higher maintenance costs -- forever. 31% of Ohio's major roads are in poor or mediocre condition. https://tripnet.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/TRIP_Fact_Sheet_OH.pdf The percentage of roads in acceptable condition has dropped from over 96% to 83.69% as of 2020. https://stacker.com/stories/ohio/how-road-conditions-ohio-have-deteriorated-2000 But sure, let's build more roads. Are there ANY fiscal conservatives overseeing ODOT?!?
April 10Apr 10 Public meeting planned for proposed US 33 Ohio River crossing on Thursday, April 10, 2025 The Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) and West Virginia Department of Transportation (WVDOT) invite the public to a meeting regarding a proposed four-lane US 33 crossing of the Ohio River between Ohio and West Virginia. The Existing Bridge The two-lane William S. Ritchie, Jr. Bridge (Ravenswood Bridge) stretches across the Ohio River and connects Ravenswood, West Virginia and Meigs County, Ohio. The US 33 approach roadway in Ohio is in direct alignment with the bridge. In West Virginia, traffic comes from an Interstate 77 interchange and then travels 2.3 miles on a four-lane roadway to a traffic light-controlled intersection. US 33 traffic then turns and travels 0.4 miles to an intersection with the bridge approach. A quadrant ramp then brings US 33 traffic to the bridge. The Study ODOT and consultants are currently studying alternatives to provide a four-lane US 33 crossing of the Ohio River between Ohio and West Virginia. US 33 is the direct route between Columbus, Ohio and Charleston, West Virginia and the southeastern U.S. via the connection with Interstate 77 at Ravenswood. Transport Ohio (Ohio's Freight Plan) places US 33 between Columbus and the Ohio River in the highest category of truck traffic growth (more than 500 additional trucks per day) for 2045. ODOT is advancing a series of projects on the US 33 corridor between Columbus and the Ohio River to improve safety and efficiency. This includes a project starting in summer 2025 which will convert the last 25.6 miles of two-lane highway to four lanes between Columbus and the Ohio River. This conversion to four lanes is planned for Athens and Meigs Counties and will bring a four-lane highway to the foot of the William S. Ritchie, Jr. Bridge. ODOT believes providing a four-lane US 33 crossing of the Ohio River between Ohio and West Virginia will improve safety and ensure this corridor is positioned for the future. The Public Meeting A public meeting will be held from 4:30-6:30 p.m. on Thursday, April 10, 2025 at Ravenswood City Hall, located at 1 Wall Street, Ravenswood, West Virginia. Additional information can be found on the project page on ODOT's website.
April 14Apr 14 Ravenswood Bridge Feasibility Study Three alternatives and bridge types have been prepared.
April 14Apr 14 As much as I'm never excited when ODOT (with zero hesitation) fires the money cannon at the latest highway project, two-lane 33 in Athens/Meigs does feel a bit sketchy when traveling southeast. Certainly better than it used to be before the super 2, but cars (and lots of trucks) traveling full highway speed makes it feel like a head-on collision is imminent. While US 50 is now divided and bypasses Parkersburg, that route looks to be an extra 27 miles. Guess the good news is it does look like the alignment would allow the current bridge to be twinned without too much trouble.
April 14Apr 14 Agreed, I think this project makes sense. I get that this isn't the forum for road expansion projects to get a sympathetic ear, but it's hard to argue with this one.
April 14Apr 14 The Athens-Darwin segment was completed as a limited-access two-lane expressway on a four-lane right-of-way in 2003 (photos from Jake), connecting to an existing limited-access four-lane expressway completed between Darwin and Pomeroy around 1977. The limited-access two-lane expressway on a four-lane right-of-way from Pomeroy to the Ravenswood bridge was completed in 2003 as well. The Ravenswood bridge is an outlier and was finished in 1981 to connect State Route 338 in Ohio to State Route 2 in West Virginia. Since its completion, traffic counts have generally risen, and so have accidents. These highways have some of the most serious accident types because of their design (two lanes without a physical divider), speed (average is 60-65 MPH), traffic counts, and the kind of traffic, with 16% of traffic comprised of tractor-trailers.
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