Cool idea. I'm no traffic expert, but I do know I hate this intersection in Lakewood. I've seen so many near-misses there with cars, pedestrians and bikes. Confused drivers blast through the red lights all the time.

 

[edit: There appears to be ample room for a roundabout conversion.]

 

Rosewood has been cut off from the intersection which helps a bit but Carabel is the real problem here.

I used to live on Mt Soledad and used to drive and bike through those roundabouts almost daily too.  La Jolla blvd doesn't get the same amount of traffic as the Lakewood intersection. Roundabouts are great if they are designed well taking traffic counts into consideration. Nevermind the flow that they often improve, but they eliminate dangerous T-bone accidents.  I say increase the number of roundabouts but realize there is a learning curve associated with them for the designers and the users.

I'm not sold on the two-lane roundabouts ODOT seems to like. One-lane roundabouts are great.

Properly designed roundabouts are more efficient, safer and extremely intuitive to drive. I really don’t understand why there is so much opposition to them, besides it being different. That being said, the W14th roundabout is NOT a good example of one well designed with two lanes. I’ve driven thru plenty in Indiana however that are great.

 

Regarding the center island, the are specifically landscaped to restrict being able to see across. The reasons range from making it conspicuous to drivers that they are approaching a roundabout, requiring driver focus to be to the left, reducing headlight glare and discouraging pedestrians traffic thru the center island.

 

Edited*

In Cleveland they should rework MLK/Cedar/Carnegie/Stokes/Stearns area by the rapid stop. And also the part in Cleveland Heights as you head up the hill and it crosses Euclid Heights. Whenever I drive over there, I have no idea where I'm going to get spit out. I just leave it to the fates and course correct after I get through it.

Properly designed roundabouts are more efficient, safer and extremely intuitive to drive. I really don’t understand why there is so much opposition to them, besides it being different.

 

The only real obstacle is the footprint. I don't know exactly what the minimum footprint ODOT requires but in the UK, there needs to be at least a 28m (~91ft) diameter land area for roundabout installation

The preferred diameter is 130 feet, but that can be shrunk if an engineering study deems it acceptable.

Those Twinsburg roundabouts on Liberty and 91 are criminally small. Dangerous.

 

Whether or not the traffic circles in, say, Pepper Pike at Lander are roundabouts or not - they are large, wide - understood by motorists - and work very well

 

 

I got sideswiped in Lander Circle a couple years back.  The lady lived up in that area and muttered that I didn’t know how to drive in one, until the police officer explained to her it was the other way around.

In Cleveland they should rework MLK/Cedar/Carnegie/Stokes/Stearns area by the rapid stop. And also the part in Cleveland Heights as you head up the hill and it crosses Euclid Heights. Whenever I drive over there, I have no idea where I'm going to get spit out. I just leave it to the fates and course correct after I get through it.

 

Although, the removal of the roundabout at MLK/ East Blvd has greatly improved the intersection there.

I'm not sold on the two-lane roundabouts ODOT seems to like. One-lane roundabouts are great.

 

They over-complicate it, I think they are trying to make it easier to people who aren't used to them but it has the opposite effect. As far as I know most of the British ones are one lane, and I don't recall any in Italy that have lane lines at all. The one in Cleveland by Steelyard Commons (Quigley and W. 14th?), I am spending most of my focus trying to figure out what lane to go into instead of watching for traffic. Last time somebody honked at me but I don't know if I even did anything wrong.

The roundabouts in Italy don't have lanes at all but again, it doesn;t seem like any roads in Italy have lanes but merely suggestions.  :)

^I know that intersection in Lakewood and its highly functional. I would HATE to see a roundabout there, taking out the park and some buildings. The intersection works fine. If you want to make enhancements, update the paint so its clear who turns and who doesn't'; upgrade signs or signaling, but do not pour lots of pavement and take out buildings for a big, unsightly pavement circle.

 

As someone who bikes there often, I respectfully disagree that it's functional.

 

Plus, would it have to be big and unsightly? CHeck the San Diego pic as it is clearly neither.

 

That San Diego one is very different than the demand at Lakewood. Plus Lakewood would have six spokes, so it would have to be really large to be safe.  It makes no sense at Madison/Hilliard.

 

Okay, maybe for cyclists, its not functional. but a roundabout is not the answer. striping, bumps, signaling, flashing signs, or whatever, but not tearing down buildings and parks for all the mighty car.

I'd like to nominate the traffic light soup where Chester-MLK-Euclid meet in University (ahem) Circle.

Five intersections in central Toledo are being replaced by roundabouts. Three are complete, two at the the former "Thousand Islands" where Cherry, Detroit, Collingwood, Berdan and other streets intersected north of downtown; and one on Jeep Parkway where the former Willys-Overland plant used to be.

 

Two more will be built as the reconstruction of I-75 in the area wraps up next year.

 

"Thousand Islands" (2): https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6854734,-83.5555365,279m/data=!3m1!1e3\

 

Video of completed roundabouts at Thousand Islands:

 

Jeep Parkway: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6821075,-83.5676414,280m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

Coming: Berdan at Haverhill: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6891282,-83.5627404,280m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

Coming: Berdan and Jeep Pkwy: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6874999,-83.5604636,138m/data=!3m1!1e3

 

http://www.wtol.com/story/23983576/city-plans-roundabouts-to-replace-thousand-island-intersection

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/gallery/Roundabout-at-Cherry-and-Detroit

 

ODOT has reconfigured several suburban intersections in metro Toledo recently (SR 25 and I-475 in Perrysburg; Central Ave and I-475 in Sylvania) but none with roundabouts. One was recently completed on SR 199 just south of Perrysburg.

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2017/09/18/Roundabout-closes-State-Rt-199-in-Perrysburg-Township.html

 

Lucas County has been constructing several roundabouts in the exurban western sections:

 

https://www.co.lucas.oh.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/44254

 

Temporary roundabout in downtown Toledo, 2013:

 

 

http://toledoblade.typepad.com/bladeslices/2013/12/belated-snow-picture-of-temporary-toledo-roundabout.html

 

Well designed roundabouts are great for keeping cars flowing through an intersection with out having to stop.  Which makes then awful for pedestrians.  Which makes them inappropriate for urban locations, full stop.

 

Poorly designed roundabouts are great for creating accidents and starting road rage incidents.  I use the W. 14th St. roundabout at least twice a day, and there's seldom a time that somebody isn't screwing it up and making the situation tense and dangerous for everyone.  And it's been there for years, so don't tell me about learning curves.  Frankly, every time I drive that roundabout I find myself hating traffic engineers more and more.

That's why the Champs-Elysees has a pedestrian subway

Dayton has a billion of these little roundabouts in various neighborhoods.  They are simple and do the trick without widening roads.

 

Seattle has a ton of them too.  I know that those are called roundabouts, but I'm not really sure they work on the same principle as the large traffic circles on arterial roads that we have mostly been discussing.  They seem to slow traffic more than speed it along, even though they eliminate stop signs.

Well designed roundabouts are great for keeping cars flowing through an intersection with out having to stop.  Which makes then awful for pedestrians.  Which makes them inappropriate for urban locations, full stop.

 

See the "Before and After" San Diego example above. THe roundabouts are much better for pedestrians in that case. I'm no traffic engineer, but somehow they were able to cut the road width down from five lanes of traffic to only two.

Cutting down the number of lanes and adding crosswalks, a median, and friendly landscaping is what made that pedestrian friendly, not the roundabout.  It doesn't even look like they allow pedestrians to cross at the roundabout, but rather shunt them down the block a little ways.

Attached are the two intersections in Norwood I mentioned in the OP which I think could benefit from roundabouts.

 

Both instances have streets meeting at odd angles and take up a significant amount of real estate as it is. Add to that the large uncontrolled zones in the middle of the intersections and it would seem like a roundabout would be an obvious solution

I'm no expert on roundabout design but I sometimes play one at work. Both of these intersections have right of way constraints and sight distance restraints and appear (from google maps  ;) to be pretty low volume.  I wouldn't think these would make good candidates for a roundabout.  Ideally, the center of a roundabout is offset from the  approaches to the roundabout entrances. In other words, it isn't just a circle centered around the intersection of streets. The sweeping movements into the roundabout make it work better. That would not be possible in these existing scenarios.

Roundabouts are fun. I wish there were more in Ohio.

 

 

Somehow the cost of the project jumped to $634 million.  No controversy, of course.  Expected to open in late 2018. 

 

http://www.portsmouth-dailytimes.com/news/25369/bypass-is-ahead-of-schedule

Wow, a 50% increase over the cost ODOT estimated in 2016. And yet no conservative, anti-tax groups have raised a stink nor will they. Road projects always get a pass.

"As has been highly publicized in the past, the new four-lane, limited-access freeway is the first-ever public/private road enterprise in Ohio. Fuller said had the state decided to build the $634 million project on its own, it most likely would have been built in phases stretching over 15 to 25 years. The unique funding mechanism used cut that time to three-and-a-half years."

 

Is this going to be towed? Or the state has been duked of 200+ million to get it done earlier???

No, this road was originally going to be built as a "public private partnership" (P3) but it was not going to be tolled. I don't quite understand the logic of using a P3 to build an ordinary, non-tolled road, but I assumed it was a way to funnel money toward Kasich's campaign donors. That plan fell apart for whatever reason, and now will just be built by ODOT as a non-tolled road.

^Where did you hear that? I believe the private entity is still involved.

 

The benefit is that the state can make payments over many years instead of coming up with the entire amount at once.

^I think they've stuck to the same P3 plan. The money is coming from the state (no tolls), but a private consortium has been financing, designing, and building the thing and will maintain it for 35 years or so. Not sure how the payments from the state are calculated- the contract references some kind of model. 

Maybe the contractors think the P3 is going to go bankrupt so they raised the price.

According to federal highway...

 

<i>“$646.3 million (total cost including preconstruction activities, design, construction, and financing)”</i>

 

Idk if the 400 million number has been spouted off to be purposefully misleading but this sounds like a truer cost.

^Where did you hear that? I believe the private entity is still involved.

 

Sorry, I misread the sentence, "Fuller said had the state decided to build the $634 million project on its own" as "Fuller said the state had decided to build the $634 million project on its own."  It's still a P3.

The Portsmouth Bypass (now called the Southern Ohio Veterans Memorial Highway) is now complete! ODOT brags that this project is "the largest in ODOT history"!

 

 

We’ll soon see if this road brings much anticipated prosperity to Portsmouth... by diverting travelers away from Portsmouth. 

Is there any freeway in this state not named or sub-titled the Veterans Memorial Highway? Even the 70/75 Crossroads of America is officially named the ridiculous-sounding "Freedom Veterans Crossroads".

Edited December 13, 20186 yr by BigDipper 80

4 hours ago, thebillshark said:

We’ll soon see if this road brings much anticipated prosperity to Portsmouth... by diverting travelers away from Portsmouth. 

 

But, but... ODOT's spox insists that this project is bring prosperity and wealth to Southern Ohio!

 

 

He also seems to think that anyone criticizing this infrastructure boondoggle is attacking the people who live in Southern Ohio ... ???

 

 

I bet eventually a dry carryout that looks like a pole barn and sells chicken will open. It will have a big conspicuous blank wall where the beer would be if the area wasn't dry.

Just now, GCrites80s said:

I bet eventually a dry carryout that looks like a pole barn and sells chicken will open. It will have a big conspicuous blank wall where the beer would be if the area wasn't dry.

 

And it'll be owned by an Indian family. 

I just got around to watching the drone video and it looks like they had to blast through a lot of terrain to build this thing. No wonder it was so expensive to build.

I was told that they chose to build directly through the hills in order to avoid eminent domain battles and "impacting" area residents. 

I mean, this is a literal tragedy and yet we have these people in Cincy combining about a streetcar. 

On 12/13/2018 at 4:23 PM, jmecklenborg said:

I was told that they chose to build directly through the hills in order to avoid eminent domain battles and "impacting" area residents. 

 

I guess, when money's no object ... bring in the dynamite!

I spent some time in SE Ohio this past weekend and saw the completed bypass with my own eyes for the first time. I really struggle to understand the purpose of this massive investment. Sure, it will cut about 10 minutes off of the drive between Columbus, Ohio and Huntington, WV. I can't think of any other major city pair that benefits from this bypass. Is that really worth $1.2 billion of taxpayer money over the next 35 years? This extremely expensive highway segment might make sense as part of a larger project like the I-74 extension, but I fail to see how this bypass makes any sense on its own.

Same state government that turned away federal funds to pay the entire capital cost for a three-C train service.  I'll never really get over the juxtaposition of that decision with this insane highway project.

14 minutes ago, taestell said:

I spent some time in SE Ohio this past weekend and saw the completed bypass with my own eyes for the first time. I really struggle to understand the purpose of this massive investment. Sure, it will cut about 10 minutes off of the drive between Columbus, Ohio and Huntington, WV. I can't think of any other major city pair that benefits from this bypass. Is that really worth $1.2 billion of taxpayer money over the next 35 years? This extremely expensive highway segment might make sense as part of a larger project like the I-74 extension, but I fail to see how this bypass makes any sense on its own.

 

"Too many semis were crashing on Rosemount hill" and "Too many semis were jamming up 23 and 52 in Portsmouth and New Boston".

So it's essentially a direct subsidy to the trucking industry. Nice.

There were also some Russian steel mills that were supposed to get built on 52 that never happened.

Good grief.  Another traffic circle FAIL:

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/richland-avenue-temporarily-closed-roundabout

 

How is that a roundabout fail?  That can happen anywhere.  

Ohio Highways Getting High-Tech Traffic Congestion Updates

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation is spending millions of dollars to install new warning system technology on highways across the state that will warn drivers of upcoming traffic congestion. 

 

The new automatic traffic queue warning systems are designed to cut down on “end-of-queue” crashes that occur on highways when drivers aren’t able to spot slowed or stopped traffic in time, resulting in a collision at the end of a traffic slow-down. 

 

Thirteen highway sites will have the warning systems installed, which are designed to notice slow or stopped traffic that will trigger a message board to warn drivers of upcoming slow traffic.

 

“The advanced cameras monitoring live traffic that feed into ODOT traffic management center will be tapping in real time when traffic is slowing down,” Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine said Thursday during a press conference. “That technology will then immediately turn on a digital message warning drivers approximately two miles back of the upcoming slowdown.”

 

More below:

https://columbusunderground.com/ohio-highways-getting-high-tech-traffic-congestion-updates-ocj1/