This would connect Rt. 62 (east-west route along the Mahoning/Columbiana County borders) near Alliance to Rt. 11 (north-south route from Y-town to East Liverpool), near North Lima - basically making a faster trip from the Canton area to Youngstown.

 

62/11 link pegged at $131.7 million

 

By LARRY SHIELDS/Salem News staff writer

 

SALEM - A $131.7 million application by the Ohio Department of Transportation to fund the U.S. 62 connector from Alliance to state Route 11 in Columbiana County is due at the Transportation Review Advisory Council (TRAC) Friday.

The project is planned to link U.S. 62 north of Salem via four lanes to state Route 11 which cuts across the eastern edge of Columbiana and Mahoning counties.

 

The eight-member TRAC panel, formed in 1997, uses a numbers-driven system for choosing major (more than $5 million) new transportation projects.

 

...

 

http://salemnews.com/

Interesting that ODOT is bringing several highway projects back from the dead for the Youngstown area.

 

The latest proposal from the Feds concerning their Transportation bill had money alocated for the Hubbard Connector (US 62/SR 7 from the east end of the Y-town innerbelt northeast to I-80) which had been dead as long as this US 62/Oh14 connector.

 

Sounds like Mahoning County will be the place to go to watch highway construction in the near future. :)

 

Sandor

Cool!

The Ohio Department of Transportation will  install ramp meters at all eastbound exits between Interstates 74 and 75 in Hamilton County.

 

I'm not too sure how much of an effect these are going to have on the number of accidents. I know from experience that the sun is the real cause of most of these accidents, especially earlier in the morning.

 

My one and only experience with these meters was in Chicago. I was on some onramp a little north of the city, there was no one one the expressway, and had to stop. Thirty seconds or so later, a mass of cars came rolling down the freeway; I finally get a green light. Let's just say I had to use all the power the Northstar could give me to merge. I am not a fan of these things.

oh those are awful, i remember when i was in LA and really all they do is divert all the traffic jams from the highway back further onto the ramps.

I have heard 4 metro's have removed or turned off their ramp meter systems. Austin,Columbus,Dallas and San Antonio.

When I was in Columbus they seemed to be on and were always green.

Columbus only uses it during rush hour. Otherwise, they are off.

Kudos to Cincinnati if those things work. God knows they don't do a damn thing out here in CA to alleviate our traffic problems. :sad:

They'll just cause backups on some of the poorly designed ramps, IMHO.

 

It's funny that these folks are thinking about this at the same time that many places are thinking of phasing it out.

They have them in Denver, I hated them! Uggg!

^ We have them in Chicago... they actually aren't that bad. Again, they only run during rush hours.

Oh, from the "threads that I never follow up" file, the following excerpts from the 7/26/04 Green Twp. trustees meeting:

 

Trustee Mitchell moved to pass a resolution opposing installation of ramp meters by the Ohio Department of Transportation at the North Bend Road and the Harrison Avenue ramps to eastbound I-74. Trustee Grote seconded the motion. Trustee Grote: Aye; Trustee Mitchell: Aye; Chairman Upton: No.

 

In other words, it's not on the table right now and ODOT doesn't have anything going on, either.

That's Somewhat of a shame. As it stands right now Harrison Avenue is well backed up at all times of the day, but especially during rush hour mornings. It's a good thing I live on the less developed side of the interchange. Something really needs to be done with that interchange. Traffic seriously backs up on Harrison Avenue in the morning and on the Rybolt Road Off Ramp in the Evening. Often times there are long merging delays at the 74/75 interchange for 74 traffic. Traffic is only destined to become worse on 74 in the future; something really needs to be done to preempt that. While traffic meters may not be a viable answer for this problem, political leaders will have to realize that what once was the underused 74 isn't quite that underused anymore, and to ignore that may cause some expensive needs in the future.

I agree 100%.

This project has been long dormant, and it doesn't appear that it will happen any time soon.  This article covers the entire length of the proposed highway, but it does include Ohio.  From the Myrtle Beach Sun News, 4/10/05:

 

Interstate 73 backers look to other states

By Zane Wilson

The Sun News

 

COLUMBIA - Michigan and Ohio have no construction planned for Interstate 73, and highway officials in those states don't know if they ever will.  "Ohio has no plans to pursue I-73," said Joel Hunt, Ohio Department of Transportation spokesman. "It's not part of our long-range plan."     

 

I-73 is one of 44 priority corridors designated by Congress in 1991.  Only five of those were to be interstates, but Congress never promised the road any money, so each state has had to piecemeal nibbles here and there for studies and engineering.  The road starts near Myrtle Beach at S.C. 22, and runs through North Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Ohio and Michigan to its end at Sault Ste. Marie.     

 

Finding ways to get the other I-73 states kick-started on the highway is part of the task as a plane-load of Myrtle Beach Area Chamber of Commerce members heads Tuesday to Washington.  S.C. leaders view I-73 as critical to the region's future, but they say it won't fulfill its full potential if the road doesn't cover its complete six-state path between Myrtle Beach and Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

 

MORE: http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/local/11358286.htm

 

more proof that more ohio money should stay in ohio?

So, would 73's path go through Toledo, Columbus and then exit through south east Ohio?  Great, lets pave over more farmland.  I am glad that Ohio is showing little interest.

^ Most of the plan was to use existing rights-of-way...US-23, for example.

We already have more highways than we can afford to maintain.  I'm pleasantly surprised ODOT seems to recognize this.

It's unfortunate.  I think a lot of people in Ohio would be happier if all the cities shrivelled up and everyone went back to being cow tipping redneck farmers.  There is no vision of the future in this state.  No hope and no prospects.

 

People need to travel from the NW part of the state to the SE part of the state.  This includes people from Ohio, and folks from other states.  A proper expressway is needed at least between Toledo and Columbus.  But in Ohio there is a fear of expressways, and strange romantic fascination with 2 lane country roads.  That hurts progress, along with a lot of other things.

 

NC, SC, and Virginia all have extremely low taxes for their citizens, whereas Ohio has amongst the highest taxes in the nation.  But then how is it that these states have money to construct the road, but Ohio does not?  It makes you wonder where the money is goiing in this state.

Locutus,

 

There are much better ways to spend our money than on additional highways.  Our future as a state would be much brighter if we put more more into higher education. 

Just a guess, but this seems like something that would benefit the Carolinas a lot more than it would Ohio.  Something from Toledo to Columbus might be nice, but the rest of it in Ohio doesn't sound like it would be good for much.

Umm...Locutus, you're acting as if Ohio doesn't already have one of the largest interstate systems in the country.  Might that be where some of those tax dollars are going?

Umm...Locutus, you're acting as if Ohio doesn't already have one of the largest interstate systems in the country. Might that be where some of those tax dollars are going?

 

Yeah no shit, and the point of Ohio policy should be to keep it that way, instead paying through the nose in taxes that go to other states and no money for development of severely clogged routes like U.S. 23 in our state.

 

Not that much money goes into infrastructure spending in Ohio.  70% of it goes into Medicare and K-12 spending alone.

 

Something from Toledo to Columbus might be nice, but the rest of it in Ohio doesn't sound like it would be good for much.

 

Once again, no shit.  All roads benefit those that live along them the most.  With 1.4 million people in Northwest Ohio, 2 million in Central Ohio, and maybe a half million more in the southeast pat of the state, it sures seems to me that this route would speed up travel for a lot of people.

 

Our future as a state would be much brighter if we put more more into higher education. 

 

Are you member of a teachers union?  Or just a left-winger?  I don't think I've ever met a liberal satisfied with the amount of education spending.  Education spending in Ohio is sufficient.  The bigger problem is that Ohio is #1 in the country for public college graduates that move to other states in search of employment after graduation.  Maybe we should dump even more cash into education to prop up the economies of states that keep luring all the smart people from Ohio (and better yet, make the teachers and professos even wealthier) ?

US-23 is already four lanes its entire length, except for a few segments.  In almost every case, the two-lane segments are rather short and in relatively uninhabited areas.  Powell/Delaware are the only other major glaring issues (Carey to Toledo can be avoided by jumping on 4-lane OH-15 to I-75).

 

The main problem is Columbus, where I-270 to I-71 to OH-315 to I-270 and back to US-23 gets you through pretty quickly.

 

So my question is:

 

Would upgrading what is already mostly 4-lane rural driving up to 100% interstate standards going to save commuters so much time that the costs can be justified?

 

Hey Locutus,

 

Let's not revert to any childish debate tactics.  That's immature and not the correct way to find the solution to a problem.  I don't see what teachers' unions have to do with this topic.  Also, if you are going to paint the world in black and white terms (left wingers), I seriously doubt that you will have the ability to clearly consider the different sides of arguments. 

 

Anyways, I don't think that you understand this topic.  We need more money in the cutting-edge academic fields.  Cleveland finally got a software engineer program this year.  Did you know that Progressive just opened  a 1,000 worker tech center in Colorado because they could not find workers with the right training in Cleveland?  At any time, Progressive has about 300 open tech jobs in Cleveland. Our academic institutions need to better address today's business needs.  I am glad that some schools are beginning to realize that, but the state could do a lot more good if it put money into such programs instead of into an overbuilt highway system that will only bleed future budgets.  Do you realize how schools in other states spin off new companies because there is adequate support from the state to their research institutions.  I don't think that building more highways is the answer to these problems.   

Absolutely.  They just keep adding more and more stoplights to U.S. 23.  It can take hours to get through Delaware County on Friday evenings.

 

There's so much stuff on U.S. 23 in Delaware county that it would probably be too difficult to change into an interstate.  They would definitely have to look for a different alignment for I-73, maybe the road that goes from Dublin to Marysville and then to Findlay, or just have lots of bypasses on U.S. 23.

 

I think we need I-73 a lot more than many other ODOT projects, such as the half billion I-280 bridge which will primarily be of benefit to people from Detroit travelling to the East Coast.

 

Hey Locutus,

 

Let's not revert to any childish debate tactics.  That's immature and not the correct way to find the solution to a problem. I don't see what teachers' unions have to do with this topic. Also, if you are going to paint the world in black and white terms (left wingers), I seriously doubt that you will have the ability to clearly consider the different sides of arguments.

 

Anyways, I don't think that you understand this topic.  We need more money in the cutting-edge academic fields.  Cleveland finally got a software engineer program this year.  Did you know that Progressive just opened  a 1,000 worker tech center in Colorado because they could not find workers with the right training in Cleveland?  At any time, Progressive has about 300 open tech jobs in Cleveland. Our academic institutions need to better address today's business needs. I am glad that some schools are beginning to realize that, but the state could do a lot more good if it put money into such programs instead of into an overbuilt highway system that will only bleed future budgets. Do you realize how schools in other states spin off new companies because there is adequate support from the state to their research institutions.  I don't think that building more highways is the answer to these problems. 

 

There is no proof that dumping more money into education produces proportionatly better results, in fact it doesn't because of diminishing returns.  Nor is there proof that people will stick around in an area just because they went to college there, actually they don't.  Florida is one of the fastest growing states in the country, with much of the growth being in well paying new economy jobs.  Miami has a "Silicon Beach".  But there are no world class academic institutions in Florida, actually, the whole education system there is supposed to be shit.  But they still attract lots of smart people who are educated elsewhere because they have fantastic economic policies.

 

I went to Cornell University.  In Ithaca, NY there is no growth whatsoever.  There are few, if any startups.  The town is dirt poor.  This despite having one off the world's top academic institutions in town.  That's because the economic policies in Ithaca are all absolute shit.  No one in their right mind would startup a business there.

So, are you saying that we ought to strip out higher educational institutions of money because it is a waste?  And, c'mon, you know why places such as Florida are able to attract good workers.  They can do so because of the weather and the coolness factor.  It is the same reason why Boston and New York can attract great workers and still have some of the highest tax burdens in the country.  Its not all about taxes.  It if were, then places such as Sweden wouldn't have a better per capita income than we do.  Its obvious that you have a fear of taxes. If you are going to develop a good policy, you can't start out with the presumption that taxes are bad per se.  Its like taking vitamins--too much or too little will kill you. 

Several items of note.

West Virginia hasn't decided if I-73 will be two lanes, 4 lanes lanes with access, or 4 lanes with restricted access.  And I've seen conflicting reports over the years as to which way WVa will go.

 

There are only two cities in Ohio who want I-73.  Toledo and Portsmouth.  Why?  So they can get to Columbus quicker (Toledo's mayor actually complained about not having a direct freeway connection to Columbus back in 1994).  And there is the thought (through out the states) that being along an interstate will atract businessses to your area.

 

 

 

This and more about I-73 can be found at http://www.roadfan.com/i73nat.html written by yours truely.

 

Is there any way to find information on how much through traffic there is on US 23 in Delaware County?  (That is, going to or from points farther north such as Toledo.)

 

In my experience most of 23 itself is not too bad; the worst is just the 3 mile stretch from the interchange with 270 and 315 (the worst single spot) to Polaris Parkway/Powell Road.  And that, of course, is only with rush hour traffic.  I don't drive it every day or anything, but on occasion when I have driven it at the busiest times it hasn't seemed truly awful, apart from the aforementioned interchange with 270.

Is there any way to find information on how much through traffic there is on US 23 in Delaware County? (That is, going to or from points farther north such as Toledo.)

 

I would start with the Delaware Planning Commission http://www.dcrpc.org/ (you'll have to contact them, there are no traffic counts on their website) and if they have nothing, contact MORPC (http://www.morpc.org).  Maybe the ODOT district building, over on E. William would have local traffic counts (or else at their library in Columbus)

 

Happy researching. :-)

 

 

 

It's unfortunate.  I think a lot of people in Ohio would be happier if all the cities shrivelled up and everyone went back to being cow tipping redneck farmers.  There is no vision of the future in this state.  No hope and no prospects.

 

People need to travel from the NW part of the state to the SE part of the state.  This includes people from Ohio, and folks from other states.  A proper expressway is needed at least between Toledo and Columbus.  But in Ohio there is a fear of expressways, and strange romantic fascination with 2 lane country roads.  That hurts progress, along with a lot of other things.

 

Not quite, ODOT has been steadily improving the "macro" corrdiors (US 35, 33 etc) to 4 lane expressways (not frewways). Take a read of the Access Ohio Plan on the ODOT web site http://www.dot.state.oh.us/planning/default.htm.

 

Is there much of a traffic demand between Toldeo and Columbus to warrant a full freeway, or is the US 23/SR 15/ I-75 route sufficient (Conisdering that is already a macro corridor)?

Is there any way to find information on how much through traffic there is on US 23 in Delaware County? (That is, going to or from points farther north such as Toledo.)

 

I would start with the Delaware Planning Commission http://www.dcrpc.org/ (you'll have to contact them, there are no traffic counts on their website) and if they have nothing, contact MORPC (http://www.morpc.org).  Maybe the ODOT district building, over on E. William would have local traffic counts (or else at their library in Columbus)

 

Happy researching. :-)

 

 

ODOT Counts are available at http://www.dot.state.oh.us/techservsite/availpro/Traffic_Survey/TSR_Report/default.htm

for routes on the state system

 

Not quite, ODOT has been steadily improving the "macro" corrdiors (US 35, 33 etc) to 4 lane expressways (not frewways). Take a read of the Access Ohio Plan on the ODOT web site http://www.dot.state.oh.us/planning/default.htm.

 

Is there much of a traffic demand between Toldeo and Columbus to warrant a full freeway, or is the US 23/SR 15/ I-75 route sufficient (Conisdering that is already a macro corridor)?

 

The I-75-Oh 15-US 23 corridor is just fine....outside of maybe widening I-75.

But Findley to Delaware is just fine as is.

On U.S. 23 they keep adding new traffic lights.  It's not a matter of lanes.  A 4 lane expressway might carry as much traffic as an 8 or 10 lane city road, because the former has no stops and traffic going by at a higher speed.  Adding more and more lanes to U.S. 23 is not the way to go.  Everytime I drive from Columbus to Toledo there is a new traffic light on U.S. 23 in Delaware county.  Someone from Marion, OH told me that the route was pretty good until a few years ago, when they started adding traffic lights.  If they keep adding more traffic lights, more traffic will be backed up, and they will end up adding new lanes.  The situation is untenable.

 

Even if it was just two lanes through Delaware county, but with those two lanes being dedicatted lanes with no businesses off to the side and no stops or intersections, thatt would probably be better than thte current situation.

locutus, why are you criticizing sprawly development so much?....

...

 

locutus, why are you criticizing sprawly development so much?....

...

 

 

Oh I have no problems with the general concept of growth in Delaware county.  I just think the people of Ohio deserve a dedicatted highway that cuts through it. :)

A lesson from Kentucky...

 

Kentucky was unfortunatly somewhat bypassed by the Interestate System for east-west in-state connections, particulary the part of the state west of Louisville & Bowling Green.

 

The response was for the state to construct its own limited access highway system, more or less engineered to interstate standards.  Hence, the Western Kentucky & Bluegrass Parkways connecting the Frankfort/Lexington areas with Elizabethtown and points west to Paducah/Kentucky Lake.

 

Additional parkways where built to supplement this main stem, and into Eastern Kentucky (Cumberland, Daniel Boone, and Mountain Parkways).

 

All of these where toll roads, with the tolls coming off during the late 70s and early 80s.

 

So perhaps Ohio should build a Toledo/Columbus/Portsmouth/Ironton highway as a tollroad.  Actually it probably wouldnt be too difficult to upgrade the roads that are already there to true limited access w. interchanges, the way US 35 is between Chillicothe and Xenia.

 

 

Even if it was just two lanes through Delaware county, but with those two lanes being dedicatted lanes with no businesses off to the side and no stops or intersections, thatt would probably be better than thte current situation.

 

The Mountain Parkway and Daniel Boone Parkway in Kentucky are as you say..in parts they are two, or three lanes, w. an alternating passing lane, but true limited access, with interchanges and no buisness frontage.

On U.S. 23 they keep adding new traffic lights. It's not a matter of lanes. A 4 lane expressway might carry as much traffic as an 8 or 10 lane city road, because the former has no stops and traffic going by at a higher speed. Adding more and more lanes to U.S. 23 is not the way to go. Everytime I drive from Columbus to Toledo there is a new traffic light on U.S. 23 in Delaware county. Someone from Marion, OH told me that the route was pretty good until a few years ago, when they started adding traffic lights.

 

In 1987 there were 5 traffic lights along US 23 between I-270 and Waldo (Campus View, Powell Rd, Hyatt-Shanahan Rds, Oh 315-Stratford Rd, and Delaware State Park), and for shits and giggles only 25 traffic lights in all of Delaware County.  Today, you can find 25(!) traffic lights on US 23 between I-270 and Waldo. Just as many as there were in all of Delaware County less than 20 years ago.  And its quite possible to have 100 traffic lights in all of Delaware County today (I'm not going to bother trying to count).

 

Of course there are a multitude of reason as to why that is so today.

 

Even if it was just two lanes through Delaware county, but with those two lanes being dedicatted lanes with no businesses off to the side and no stops or intersections, thatt would probably be better than thte current situation.

 

I've been noting the new traffic lights on 23, too.  There are 2 or 3 that I'm certain are new since my arrival in Delaware for school in 2001, but there are probably more that I haven't paid close enough attention to.

 

What's more interesting to me is to predict the spots where new lights will go in the future.  There are several I'm quite certain of.

Meanwhile, Myrtle Beach really, really, really wants Ohio (and that state up north as well) to build I-73.

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/sunnews/news/opinion/11372069.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

 

Posted on Tue, Apr. 12, 2005   

 

EDITORIALS

 

Selling Other States on Interstate

Convincing Michigan, Ohio residents of need for I-73 is vital

 

It's disappointing that highway officials in Michigan and Ohio are showing little interest in making plans for Interstate 73 a reality, as leaders in West Virginia, Virginia and the Carolinas have.

But those in the southern states of the proposed interstate route shouldn't let the attitudes of those along the northern sections be too discouraging.

We agree with Rep. Alan Clemmons, R-Myrtle Beach and president of the S.C. I-73 Association, who says public demand for the road can change the position of highway officials in those two states. Residents of Ohio and Michigan are frequent visitors to the S.C. coast, and they probably will pressure their officials to complete the road to the north when it appears definite that the southern part of the route will be built.

Even though Congress has designated I-73 as a priority corridor, a commitment by the states involved is essential. No federal money has been promised for the project, so funding is left up to the states.

Members of the Myrtle Beach Area Chamber of Commerce headed to Washington, D.C., today plan to spend time lobbying for support of I-73 on their trip. Grand Strand leaders, wisely, are determined to keep reminding other states of the importance of the project. An interstate stopping at the West Virginia-Ohio border would not give our region the same economic boost as the proposed route stretching from Sault Ste. Marie, Mich., to Myrtle Beach.

Re-forming an association of the six states the road crosses could be an important key to building public demand for the interstate in Michigan and Ohio. The association formed in the early 1990s but broke down after no federal funding was promised.

It is important that Grand Strand leaders, as well as others along the proposed route, convince those in Michigan and Ohio of the value of I-73.

 

If you are interested in seeing another, more "national," debate about this latest flare up in I-73 news, you can (try to) follow this following thread:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.transport.road/browse_frm/thread/842e68118103c2d8/a01eabc8e804058c?tvc=1#a01eabc8e804058c

 

 

Well one thing is for sure, the economic boom in the New Sunbelt states of North and South Carolina has just begun, and will likely last several decades.  This states will grow in population, political clout, and improve the living standards of their citizens.  Make no mistakes: they don't need Ohio, or Ohioans.  But Ohio could use a new link to this booming part of the country.  One thing that pays economic dividends for Ohio today (while so many other things are faltering) is Ohio's location as a "crossroads".  This is due to highways such as 80,90, 70, and 75 passing through the state.  UPS has a hub in Toledo because of its highway access and the fact that it is a major rail hub, for example.  A new road link to the South East could help Ohio maintain its advantage, and maybe add some jobs in the process.

 

But will Ohio's leaders be smart enouugh to capitalize on this, even if the Southerners hand it to them on a platter with federal funding? That remains to be seen.  Many of Ohio's leaders belong to the dumb-old, dumb-old cowbelt school of thinking, where they worship the agrarian form of life, and oppose any kind of development such as expressways.  Others will see the Southerners enthusiasm for it, and oppose purely on that basis in hopes of spiting them.  But it will be Ohio that suffers the most.  :drunk:

I don't know if they will upgrade the whole thing all the way to Ft. Wayne, but the most proximal segment to Toledo (22 miles) is going to become a proper freeway if the funding holds:

 

http://www.usrt24.com/news_01_14_2005.asp

 

The old U.S. 24 will be preserved, and the new U.S. 24 will be a few miles North of it.

There is a Henry County in Ohio, too?

 

 

^so they don't need ohio? well that's good cause ohio don't need no I-73.

 

now there is a pot 'o dumb new highway loot that would be better spent on building the ohio hub rail project.

 

LocutusOfBoard you mean these places are playing catch-up. Ohio will still be superior than those states.

 

now there is a pot 'o dumb new highway loot that would be better spent on building the ohio hub rail project.

 

 

Whether it's better spent or not for the Ohio Hub is irrelevant. It's against Ohio and federal laws to use highway funding for intercity rail service.

 

KJP