To help provide a little more clarity into these - the final result is NOT loose gravel and rocks. The permeable pavement that is being used will be a solid (although spongy) surface, so there will be no need to worry about loose gravel being kicked around.

 

A few were installed the other day, with more to be installed and finished up on Monday. Ultimately if / when these prove to be successful (as they are in other cities), it will be great to get them implemented at a larger scale throughout Downtown.

17 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said:

To help provide a little more clarity into these - the final result is NOT loose gravel and rocks. The permeable pavement that is being used will be a solid (although spongy) surface, so there will be no need to worry about loose gravel being kicked around.

 

A few were installed the other day, with more to be installed and finished up on Monday. Ultimately if / when these prove to be successful (as they are in other cities), it will be great to get them implemented at a larger scale throughout Downtown.

 

From the standpoint of peeing animals, that's worse not better.

11 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said:

To help provide a little more clarity into these - the final result is NOT loose gravel and rocks. The permeable pavement that is being used will be a solid (although spongy) surface, so there will be no need to worry about loose gravel being kicked around.

 

A few were installed the other day, with more to be installed and finished up on Monday. Ultimately if / when these prove to be successful (as they are in other cities), it will be great to get them implemented at a larger scale throughout Downtown.

They are in many neighborhoods througout DC. Like @urbanetics_said, they are solid with a sponge-like feeling when you walk on them. It feels very similar to the material that is used in most new playgrounds. I say skip the testing period and implement a large scale rollout. 

Regarding the dog pee issue - That totally is understandable how that would be a concern. However, with everything learned about / all of the discussions that have been had, that has never come up as an issue. Cities that have installed them seem very pleased and happy with them, and I have not heard about the pee being a concern.

 

IF that does come up to be the case, at least this initial test will help demonstrate that along with possible solutions. But otherwise, it seems like their long-term maintenance, effectiveness, and success have been fantastic from all of the other examples and best practices learned. It's exciting to at least be trying out some new ideas and getting our streetscapes more safe, aesthetically pleasing, and well-maintained! :)

Gotta love seeing greenery and color added throughout Downtown - it’s the little details like these that make a big difference! 

 

Absolutely!

More greenery for downtown!

 

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2022/05/somebody-planted-a-flower-garden-in-a-euclid-ave-sidewalk-hole.html

Funny but a sad commentary on the lack of care given to public spaces throughout Cleveland. I’m currently in Phoenix and the effort put into the general aesthetic is amazing. I know their maintenance demands are different but even the areas along expressways are clean and well kept. Where we have overgrown grass and weeds along with the scrappy random tree - they’ve lined with stone and local plants and cacti. And the upkeep is visible. What a difference it makes. 

3 hours ago, scg80 said:

More greenery for downtown!

 

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2022/05/somebody-planted-a-flower-garden-in-a-euclid-ave-sidewalk-hole.html

 

I love this. But it irks me that they took - and published - that photo without picking up the garbage first. 

For those avoiding CLE dot com:

 

Another great pic:

Edit: argh this view cropped it. Here’s the pic:

Edited May 18, 20223 yr by Boomerang_Brian
Added embedded photo

On 5/17/2022 at 4:06 PM, OldEnough said:

Funny but a sad commentary on the lack of care given to public spaces throughout Cleveland. I’m currently in Phoenix and the effort put into the general aesthetic is amazing. I know their maintenance demands are different but even the areas along expressways are clean and well kept. Where we have overgrown grass and weeds along with the scrappy random tree - they’ve lined with stone and local plants and cacti. And the upkeep is visible. What a difference it makes. 

Not a close comparison as it’s not apples to apples. I spend time in Phoenix for work on occasion, and, while I don’t loathe it as much as some members on this forum based on comments I’ve seen, I wouldn’t want to live there.  
 

When Phoenix doesn’t have rain, snow, ice, trees or grass, it’s easy to keep the decorative stone and gravel on the side of the road looking good. 

Fair enough, Jeremy. But the point I was attempting to make is that we don’t even seem to try. There’s virtually no thought or effort put into making things look good - or maintaining things that do.  

4 hours ago, OldEnough said:

Fair enough, Jeremy. But the point I was attempting to make is that we don’t even seem to try. There’s virtually no thought or effort put into making things look good - or maintaining things that do.  

 

From what I've seen the costs for the city to plant or maintain trees etc. is astronomical.  

22 hours ago, surfohio said:

 

From what I've seen the costs for the city to plant or maintain trees etc. is astronomical.  

Why can't we have streets that look like this?

 

If cost is the problem, then how does Portland, OR have a thousand bajillion big tall trees all over downtown? It costs them about $4.6 million per year. We spend about $3 million per year. Portland is about 2x the land area of Cleveland. So they have way better urban forestry and spend less per acre.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Come on now. It can't be THAT expensive to hire a few tree experts to manage city trees. I think it could even save money. Rather than planting willynilly and watching huge tree die off if you plant the right kind of trees the correct way and maintain them that's less money needed for constant replacement. 

Hey guys, don't come at me with your common sense when I'm talking about the City of Cleveland lol. 

 

But seriously, there's obviously a major issue with how the City services operate. Whether it's corruption or simply some wasteful bureaucratic problem I've no idea. 

Being torn out now, but bravo to Jack and crew for this delightful installation. 
 

 

Hopefully this commission acts as a central organization to direct the various initiatives announced recently and coordinate organizations and agencies towards a common goal and not just another level of bureaucracy. It sounds like the commission should at least result in enforcing existing laws to preserve what trees we currently have and a funding mechanism through fines to start to restore some of what we've lost. 

 

Cleveland to resurrect tree commission

Updated: May. 25, 2022, 8:52 a.m. | Published: May. 25, 2022, 8:42 a.m.

 

Quote

Legislation establishing a 15-member Urban Forestry Commission is making its way through City Council and could be approved as early as June 6, which would essentially bring back to life a similar commission that existed in the 1990s but stopped operating in the early 2000s for unknown reasons.

 

...

 

Though the city already has numerous tree-related laws on its books, they’re generally not being enforced, which means the city isn’t collecting fines that could be used to pay for tree planting and care. Some of the laws date back to 1924 and aren’t relevant anymore, like prohibitions against horses being tied to trees and causing damage. But others remain relevant, such as requiring developers to maintain or plant new trees as part of projects.

 

The commission would help the Urban Forestry section determine how to start collecting such penalties, which range up to $1,000, according to DiDonato.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/05/cleveland-to-resurrect-tree-commission.html

Edited May 25, 20223 yr by Luke_S

2 minutes ago, Luke_S said:

Hopefully this commission as a central organization to direct the various initiatives announced recently and coordinate organizations and agencies towards a common goal and not just another level of bureaucracy. It sounds like the commission should at least result in enforcing existing laws to preserve what trees we currently have and a funding mechanism through fines to start to restore some of what we've lost. 

 

Cleveland to resurrect tree commission

Updated: May. 25, 2022, 8:52 a.m. | Published: May. 25, 2022, 8:42 a.m.

 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/05/cleveland-to-resurrect-tree-commission.html

 

Call me cynical but I had the same reaction - oh great another level bureaucratic org consisting of meetings about meetings by people who love meetings - it doesn't take a commission to look around Public Square's chopped down trees, Euclid Ave.'s chopped down trees, the Shoreway, etc. to see we have a major problem. Curious how the enforcement goes- will they start fining CPP? ha

Hey, I can be cynical too but in this case l'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. This strikes me as another example of Mayor Bibb getting it. Jackson had me so beaten down with his sclerotic administration l gave up on city government doing much of anything other than balance the books.

 

How much success this tree commission has will depend on the people chosen for it but, come on, even a half assed focus on urban trees will produce a better result than what we're used to. This is music to my ears. 

18 minutes ago, cadmen said:

Hey, I can be cynical too but in this case l'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. This strikes me as another example of Mayor Bibb getting it. Jackson had me so beaten down with his sclerotic administration l gave up on city government doing much of anything other than balance the books.

 

How much success this tree commission has will depend on the people chosen for it but, come on, even a half assed focus on urban trees will produce a better result than what we're used to. This is music to my ears. 

Thank you for some optimism lol I have to keep reminding myself that this is a different admin... 

Finally! Maybe the city took note of Jack's antics up the street and figured they should do something...still embarrassing how long this has taken

 

 

Yes but, god those trees look sick. We need to do a much better job of figuring out the best kind of trees to plant in an urban setting, plant them correctly and maintain them properly.

 

The new tree commission can't get started too soon for me.

1 minute ago, cadmen said:

Yes but, god those trees look sick. We need to do a much better job of figuring out the best kind of trees to plant in an urban setting, plant them correctly and maintain them properly.

 

The new tree commission can't get started too soon for me.

 

Putting concrete over the roots like that won't help either.

 

Anybody know if it's permeable under the pavers or just concrete like in the photo? If the latter it's no wonder they keep having to cut down the trees along Euclid.

Maybe l'm not seeing things correctly but l swear when l travel to other cities around the country most seem to have a much larger and healthier tree canopy. While ours mostly seems to struggle. I have to believe if we just stopped treating trees has an afterthought we could do much better. It's not rocket science right?

I was talking to a representative from Urban Forestry last week, and he was saying with the transition of mayors, “the budget for planting and maintenance was overlooked.” They’re planning on a Fall planting season, but they’re not sure if they’ll get the money to do so inked into the budget, because council “forgot” last time. So while new trees downtown sound great (and the ash that was lost in front of my house that I’m trying to secure a permit to replace, hence contacting UF), who knows when we’ll start to see action. 
If I wrote a letter, would they be more likely to see an email or a carrier pigeon at city council? 

Cleveland City Council lingo decipher……”overlooked” = Fleeced,stolen

It’s my belief that the city wants all street trees to die. Leave the stump or fill with concrete is the fix. 

We need a campaign to reclaim the title Forest City - not just by name - but by design throughout our urban corridors. 

I like the fact the SHW presentation for June 3rd includes frontier elm trees.  They look just like the old elm trees but they're a size smaller.  Wash DC has been successful planting some, notably around the martin Luther King Memorial.  If we're losing the ashes, at least we can get the elms back.

2 hours ago, Dougal said:

I like the fact the SHW presentation for June 3rd includes frontier elm trees.  They look just like the old elm trees but they're a size smaller.  Wash DC has been successful planting some, notably around the martin Luther King Memorial.  If we're losing the ashes, at least we can get the elms back.

The amount of street trees that were gaining is one of my favorite parts of this project. And they’re leaving the beautiful honey locusts that ring the parking lots along W. 6th and St. Clair.

So many times we see the trees clear cut for no reason before construction starts. Only to be replaced by some ornamental dwarf trees. The large locusts along W. 25th recently met their demise for Irishtown Bend park that won’t be a reality for another 5-10 years. Completely unnecessary loss.

^ Right. for some god-forsaken reason we seem to treat trees in this town like grass. Any little change on the street, well just mow'em down. We can always replace any thriving trees with new saplings. What's the problem??

With your indulgence, I’d like to continue the exchange about “tower lighting” that @Mov2Ohiomentioned in the SW thread.  
 

While checking out some nighttime skyline photos of Cleveland and Cincy, I thought that the Queen City had some outstanding night lighting - a lot due to its Great American Tower with its illuminated Tiara. 
 

I love what CLE does with the Terminal Tower, of course, but I’d love to see  more done with a few of the bigger towers in town - this shot of EY at night shows how much the additional lighting complements our PS towers and adds to a bigger city feel. 
 

Imagine what lighting for Erieview or the Stokes Courthouse or One Cleveland Ctr. would do - and, of course, SW on the way in 2 years. 

Edited May 30, 20223 yr by CleveFan

 

Glad to see this finally being fixed - bricks are being laid today. I know the Euclid Ave sidewalks are tricky due to some fuzziness with property owners vs city responsibility, plus the way these were designed to begin with. But supposedly this new concrete foundation is replacing the metal one that existed previously, which hopefully won’t result in the failing / corroding metal that has caused the sinkage in these spots.

 

Just glad the City stepped up to take care of this and is getting it done. Hope it’s successful and this can be used to help fix the other areas soon that need it too.

On 5/28/2022 at 2:40 PM, Dougal said:

I like the fact the SHW presentation for June 3rd includes frontier elm trees.  They look just like the old elm trees but they're a size smaller.  Wash DC has been successful planting some, notably around the martin Luther King Memorial.  If we're losing the ashes, at least we can get the elms back.

 

i was equally happy about this.  When i was still living in DC they had redone Penn Ave. in front of the White House and used Princeton Elm.  They had notable size in just 3 years.  Frontier, somewhat less course and smaller overall canopy is still rather quick growing and will develop a fairly large canopy.  

23 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said:

Glad to see this finally being fixed - bricks are being laid today. I know the Euclid Ave sidewalks are tricky due to some fuzziness with property owners vs city responsibility, plus the way these were designed to begin with. But supposedly this new concrete foundation is replacing the metal one that existed previously, which hopefully won’t result in the failing / corroding metal that has caused the sinkage in these spots.

 

Just glad the City stepped up to take care of this and is getting it done. Hope it’s successful and this can be used to help fix the other areas soon that need it too.

 

 

So did they pour concrete up to an inch or two away from the trunk of the tree?  Seems like it could use some more room for water, no?  And if the tree does grow won't it be pushing up the sidewalk?

36 minutes ago, ryanfrazier said:

 

So did they pour concrete up to an inch or two away from the trunk of the tree?  Seems like it could use some more room for water, no?  And if the tree does grow won't it be pushing up the sidewalk?

 

Yep, as great as it is to have this fixed they did a crap job w/concrete and the fact it took nearly two months is mind boggling. Maybe the administration got flustered with the 'euclid garden' and the press it received. Hopefully the city can work to have more of a pep to their step when it comes to one of the city's signature streets.

Edited May 31, 20223 yr by GISguy

23 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

Yep, as great as it is to have this fixed they did a crap job w/concrete and the fact it took nearly two months is mind boggling. Maybe the administration got flustered with the 'euclid garden' and the press it received. Hopefully the city can work to have more of a pep to their step when it comes to one of the city's signature streets.

I honestly don’t know, but is it the city’s responsibility to replace and repair sidewalks?

22 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

I honestly don’t know, but is it the city’s responsibility to replace and repair sidewalks?

 

Not sure how it works in the downtown core, and I guess this also falls within the DCA special assessment area so maybe DCA shares some responsibility? Either way past the Arcade headed W the sidewalk is starting to bow pretty good. Whoever's responsible better get on it soon. 

 

Edit: down the street they were working around a CPP box, so maybe that's where the city comes in?

Edited May 31, 20223 yr by GISguy

The sidewalks here are the property owners' responsibility. I do know that some additional conversations were had, since this is a larger-scale issue, seeing as the Euclid Ave sidewalks are beginning to fail like this all down the street. So thankfully the City did jump in to take some responsibility and help lead this repair.

In much of the civilized world, sidewalks are the city's responsibility and rightly so.  Can you imagine what the impact would be on streets and driving if property owners were similarly responsible for the half of the street that's contiguous with their land? If we really care about pedestrian access, then the city needs to take over and eliminate the hopscotch policy approach of property owners dictating the accessibility of their community.

The Homestead Elms appear to be doing well surrounding Public Square. Should these trees be considered healthy enough to become the proper replacement trees for street plantings in Cleveland? 

I feel like UO should be its own city council chair. This is great stuff! Reactivating Urban Forestry, publicizing flawed aspects of our walkways, and even the good aspects, citizens initiative to offer their creative efforts to better culture and nurture our atmosphere. I applaud the city to making quick efforts like these. But we still deserve a seat in city hall.

Some great Downtown streetscape and pedestrian experience updates in the Gateway District:

It’s worth mentioning that future permeable pavement installations will be using brown instead of black, to provide a more natural and aesthetically pleasing end result.

46 minutes ago, urbanetics_ said:

Some great Downtown streetscape and pedestrian experience updates in the Gateway District:

It’s worth mentioning that future permeable pavement installations will be using brown instead of black, to provide a more natural and aesthetically pleasing end result.

Plant maintenance comment arriving in 3…2…

1 hour ago, bumsquare said:

Plant maintenance comment arriving in 3…2…

Don't do that, please.

PSA. The trees on the sidewalk on the east side of East 9th by St John’s have recently been remulched (traditional mulch, not that permeable stuff posted above). The other night, I stepped onto the bed to avoid a couple of Bird-bikers and sank in to well above my ankle! Dunno what the hell they filled those beds with, but it must be over 50% air. Can only assume it was some contractor who was charging by the cubic yard and making a few extra $$. 

1 hour ago, roman totale XVII said:

PSA. The trees on the sidewalk on the east side of East 9th by St John’s have recently been remulched (traditional mulch, not that permeable stuff posted above). The other night, I stepped onto the bed to avoid a couple of Bird-bikers and sank in to well above my ankle! Dunno what the hell they filled those beds with, but it must be over 50% air. Can only assume it was some contractor who was charging by the cubic yard and making a few extra $$. 

They finally replaced the two dead trees by Constantinos on West 9th. Those two trees have been dead for over three years.