Loving these new tree box installations outside of Tower City.  My photo doesn't do it justice (I was chasing my 2 yo and 5 yo around), but I counted approx 25 new trees.

Edited January 10, 20232 yr by Blimp City

Already such a big improvement! Looks great, and I can’t wait to see the rest of the enhancements. 

 

2 hours ago, Blimp City said:

Loving these new tree box installations outside of Tower City.  My photo doesn't do it justice (I was chasing my 2 yo and 5 yo around), but I counted approx 25 new trees.

 

They should stick a few of those on the roundabouts on Franklin Ave

 

Very nice touch!  

Wow - can't wait for these to get done.

 

🚴‍♂️🚴‍♂️🚴‍♂️

 

-------

 

(link)

 

Cleveland City Council Approves $54M in New Bike Infrastructure | Cleveland News | Cleveland | Cleveland Scene (clevescene.com)

 

Cleveland City Council Approves $54M in New Bike Infrastructure

The projects, which included the long-delayed Superior Midway, promise 4.3 miles of protected bike lanes

By Mark Oprea on Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 6:38 pm

 

Proposed rendering of the proposed Lorain cycle track, scheduled to break ground in 2025.

 

I'm excited for the Lorain Ave project. Bummer it will be a while but I think that stretch will get a lot of use for pedestrians and bikers with how much development is going on further down lorain there. Lots of apartments are popping up around W25th and Lorain (Intro, Waterford Bluffs, Abbey Ave Apartments) and a bike lane going from there out west will be a huge help to connect the new population base with cool businesses like Xinji Noodle bar or Forrest City or Platform and the new ones going up around there. 

 

Really a good step forward towards the 15min city we keep hearing about.

That IS great news. If we don't have a downtown comprised of mostly narrow streets then the way to take advantage of our oversized ones is to put a continuous center strip of trees and bike lanes. They will not only be beautiful but they should cater to bikes and walking/jogging. And you, it's things like this that make young people say "I could live here. "

For $54,000,000 we’re not getting sewers rebuilt, light rail lines laid, or infill housing near these roads. We’re not getting BRT developed, pedestrian-only thoroughfares, or even a guarantee this project will be done on time. For $54,000,000 we’re not getting a bike route that spans the city or even all of Lorain/Carnegie or Detroit/Superior. 
For God‘s sake, for $54,000,000 we’re getting 6 miles of bike paths and some street paving which, let’s be frank everyone, will be done “a la Cleveland style.” I’m not a cynical or pessimistic person, but this particular project absolutely throws me off the deep end. I’ve read all of their reports and analysis thus far, and I’m so sick of the honeypot politics that arise every time we almost get something decent for this city. The midway was a fabulous concept, but this price cannot be justified when I go into my office every day to work for the residents of this city who are starving, homeless, or infirm. I always have been a booster for dense new development and infrastructure that enhances Cleveland’s regenerating urban environment, but this is too much for too little. I’m proud to live, work, and pay taxes here— I cannot look someone in the eyes and say this 6 miles of bike paths is a good use of $54,000,000. I’m sorry. 

For $54,000,000 we’re not getting sewers rebuilt, light rail lines laid, or infill housing near these roads. We’re not getting BRT developed, pedestrian-only thoroughfares, or even a guarantee this project will be done on time. For $54,000,000 we’re not getting a bike route that spans the city or even all of Lorain/Carnegie or Detroit/Superior. 
For God‘s sake, for $54,000,000 we’re getting 6 miles of bike paths and some street paving which, let’s be frank everyone, will be done “a la Cleveland style.” I’m not a cynical or pessimistic person, but this particular project absolutely throws me off the deep end. I’ve read all of their reports and analysis thus far, and I’m so sick of the honeypot politics that arise every time we almost get something decent for this city. The midway was a fabulous concept, but this price cannot be justified when I go into my office every day to work for the residents of this city who are starving, homeless, or infirm. I always have been a booster for dense new development and infrastructure that enhances Cleveland’s regenerating urban environment, but this is too much for too little. I’m proud to live, work, and pay taxes here— I cannot look someone in the eyes and say this 6 miles of bike paths is a good use of $54,000,000. I’m sorry. 

Most of this is federal money so I don’t know what you’re upset about. It’s not like the City gets the money first then decides what to spend it on. You’re upset for the wrong reasons.


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You may not be getting a pedestrian-only thoroughfare, but my read of the plans is that you're getting multimodal thoroughfares that will safely increase the volume of people and accessibility of residences and employers along those important corridors for all people regardless of financial or physical mobility. It will also increase the attractiveness of investing in jobs and housing in those corridors by making them more accessible and by increasing the volume of the people that can use each travel corridor. Increased accessibility = increased wealth.

 

Wait, did l miss that the lower level of the Detroit Superior bridge is for sure going to be turned into a park or is this just wishful thinking? 

17 minutes ago, cadmen said:

Wait, did l miss that the lower level of the Detroit Superior bridge is for sure going to be turned into a park or is this just wishful thinking? 

It looks to be something that Ronayne is proposing. He has some ARPA funds available, so maybe he'll make it happen.

Literally anything would be better than having it sit empty and locked up all year. So I'm for it; as long as they can keep it safe and unvandalized this is purely positive, even if it falls short of everyone's expectations. 

 

Unfortunately I can't get rid of my pessimistic thought that this would likely turn into a homeless encampment if steps aren't taken to prevent that. Obviously I hope I'm wrong. 

11 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Literally anything would be better than having it sit empty and locked up all year. So I'm for it; as long as they can keep it safe and unvandalized this is purely positive, even if it falls short of everyone's expectations. 

 

Unfortunately I can't get rid of my pessimistic thought that this would likely turn into a homeless encampment if steps aren't taken to prevent that. Obviously I hope I'm wrong. 

 

FWIW as part of the sale between the county and Bridgeworks an easement was granted to access the bridge deck. I wonder if that plays into things when it comes to securing(?) the bridge if this were to happen.

14 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Literally anything would be better than having it sit empty and locked up all year. So I'm for it; as long as they can keep it safe and unvandalized this is purely positive, even if it falls short of everyone's expectations. 

 

Unfortunately I can't get rid of my pessimistic thought that this would likely turn into a homeless encampment if steps aren't taken to prevent that. Obviously I hope I'm wrong. 

 

Between security cameras, entrances that close at certain hours, and dedicated staff akin to DCA in Public Square... it will probably still be a homeless encampment but hopefully a relatively safe and sanitary one.

I always thought it would be neat to convert the lower level into some kind of trolley museum and have a trolley running across it for visitors to ride.

 

Edited January 12, 20232 yr by LibertyBlvd

 

I think this is great, every great city has attractions that serves both as useful to it's residents and also something tourists would love to see and utilize when they visit and if done correctly this could be it. Tie in creative Easter eggs and designs that pay homage to its past and you have a home run.

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Local media starting to pick this up. Not a lot of meat in the article, but it could help get the necessary public attention to make this actually happen.

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/plans-underway-to-reopen-detroit-superior-bridge-streetcar-corridor-within-2-3-years-cuyahoga-co-exec-says

4 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Local media starting to pick this up. Not a lot of meat in the article, but it could help get the necessary public attention to make this actually happen.

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/plans-underway-to-reopen-detroit-superior-bridge-streetcar-corridor-within-2-3-years-cuyahoga-co-exec-says

So many people have enjoyed the single-day openings of this I would think it would garner a lot of support.   

15 hours ago, ELaunder said:

For $54,000,000 we’re not getting sewers rebuilt, light rail lines laid, or infill housing near these roads. We’re not getting BRT developed, pedestrian-only thoroughfares, or even a guarantee this project will be done on time. For $54,000,000 we’re not getting a bike route that spans the city or even all of Lorain/Carnegie or Detroit/Superior. 
For God‘s sake, for $54,000,000 we’re getting 6 miles of bike paths and some street paving which, let’s be frank everyone, will be done “a la Cleveland style.” I’m not a cynical or pessimistic person, but this particular project absolutely throws me off the deep end. I’ve read all of their reports and analysis thus far, and I’m so sick of the honeypot politics that arise every time we almost get something decent for this city. The midway was a fabulous concept, but this price cannot be justified when I go into my office every day to work for the residents of this city who are starving, homeless, or infirm. I always have been a booster for dense new development and infrastructure that enhances Cleveland’s regenerating urban environment, but this is too much for too little. I’m proud to live, work, and pay taxes here— I cannot look someone in the eyes and say this 6 miles of bike paths is a good use of $54,000,000. I’m sorry. 

Roads are expensive. Let me rephrase... they're actually VERY expensive; shockingly, disgustingly expensive. Please take a look at this report from the department of transportation: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/23cpr/appendixa.cfm#hers-improvement-costs

 

The table lists the typical cost per LANE mile in thousands of 2014 dollars. Since 2014 inflation has made things 23.6% more expensive, so multiply everything by 1.236. We're looking at a minimum of resurfacing 4 lanes of a principal arterial road in a major urbanized area, which is $5.6M/mile in 2023 dollars at the bare minimum. $33.7M for the full 6 miles, and that's just to resurface a 4 lane road and doesn't take into account that a good portion is over a bridge.

 

This isn't just a resurface though, it's a major upgrade. Maximally, we would be reconstructing 4 lanes of road which is $29.0M/mile in 2023 dollars. For 6 miles that's $173.7M in the worst case.

 

With an estimated best/worst case range of $33.7-173.7M, $54M doesn't really seem all that bad, especially when most of it is coming from the fed.

 

One other tidbit I just realized, is that by reducing the number of lanes traveled by cars the city is reducing its maintenance costs.

8 minutes ago, dastler said:

One other tidbit I just realized, is that by reducing the number of lanes traveled by cars the city is reducing its maintenance costs.

 

Very good point here that is often overlooked! More roads = more ongoing costs in terms of resurfacing, repairs, snow prep/removal, etc. 

5 hours ago, Ethan said:

Literally anything would be better than having it sit empty and locked up all year. So I'm for it; as long as they can keep it safe and unvandalized this is purely positive, even if it falls short of everyone's expectations. 

 

Unfortunately I can't get rid of my pessimistic thought that this would likely turn into a homeless encampment if steps aren't taken to prevent that. Obviously I hope I'm wrong. 

 

Those are valid considerations. So vital to have stakeholders, e.g. retailers and others who are fiscally and emotionally bought into the space. I am maybe being optimistic that it's special enough to attract a good deal of visitors. 

25 minutes ago, surfohio said:

 

Those are valid considerations. So vital to have stakeholders, e.g. retailers and others who are fiscally and emotionally bought into the space. I am maybe being optimistic that it's special enough to attract a good deal of visitors. 

I love the idea of bringing in retail. New York’s High Line, a reference point for Ronayne as he calls it a “Low Line”, features a Shake Shack and seasonal vendors. They also have tours of the area and some really cool public art. 
 

Between this and the proposed bike lanes from 65th to 20th, it would be a huge step for pedestrians in connecting Detroit Shoreway and Ohio City to Downtown. 

Roads are expensive. Let me rephrase... they're actually VERY expensive; shockingly, disgustingly expensive. Please take a look at this report from the department of transportation: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policy/23cpr/appendixa.cfm#hers-improvement-costs
 
The table lists the typical cost per LANE mile in thousands of 2014 dollars. Since 2014 inflation has made things 23.6% more expensive, so multiply everything by 1.236. We're looking at a minimum of resurfacing 4 lanes of a principal arterial road in a major urbanized area, which is $5.6M/mile in 2023 dollars at the bare minimum. $33.7M for the full 6 miles, and that's just to resurface a 4 lane road and doesn't take into account that a good portion is over a bridge.
 
This isn't just a resurface though, it's a major upgrade. Maximally, we would be reconstructing 4 lanes of road which is $29.0M/mile in 2023 dollars. For 6 miles that's $173.7M in the worst case.
 
With an estimated best/worst case range of $33.7-173.7M, $54M doesn't really seem all that bad, especially when most of it is coming from the fed.
 
One other tidbit I just realized, is that by reducing the number of lanes traveled by cars the city is reducing its maintenance costs.

Fantastic analysis man


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On 1/10/2023 at 4:12 PM, urbanetics_ said:

Already such a big improvement! Looks great, and I can’t wait to see the rest of the enhancements. 

 

 

 

More of these planters have been put down both sides of Ontario between Prospect and Public Square and I even saw a few heading East a bit on Euclid (in front of The May).

 

It'll be nice once the trees in the planters get some leaves on them!!

Planters are one thing. Trees are another. 

 

I know it's not going to happen but there is an easy way to take advantage of our extra wide streets and sidewalks. Instead of those deep (and mostly empty) sidewalks imagine if we carved out strips of concrete and replaced them with dirt and trees planted together. You know, like in Nature. Cities around the world do something like that all the time and let me tell you, those trees are much healthier than our stunted little things. 

 

Oh well, never mind.

 

 

30 minutes ago, dar124 said:

 

 

More of these planters have been put down both sides of Ontario between Prospect and Public Square and I even saw a few heading East a bit on Euclid (in front of The May).

 

It'll be nice once the trees in the planters get some leaves on them!!

I was shocked to see so many, with trees! Hopefully they get cared for properly. It’s a major improvement for that stretch. And they’re real trees

12 minutes ago, marty15 said:

I was shocked to see so many, with trees! Hopefully they get cared for properly. It’s a major improvement for that stretch. And they’re real trees

 

 

Yep, the trees will definitely have more of a presence than if there were smaller plants / flowers in the planters.  And again with leaves on the trees it'll bring some life to the area!!  I agree, I hope they're cared for and can handle some of the winds down in that area!!

They actually want to ban center bike lanes in cities over 300k. Absolutely ridiculous. https://www.cleveland.com/news/2023/02/ohio-lawmakers-seek-1-billion-for-rural-highways-propose-ban-on-center-bike-lanes-and-county-traffic-camera-programs.html

^ Everybody contact this moron: 

 

State Rep. Tom Patton, a Strongsville Republican who proposed the ban, said he’s heard complaints expressed by businesses along Superior Avenue that they will no longer be able to make left turns, as well as safety concerns made by the Ohio Trucking Association that the bike lane will make deliveries “very challenging in some places.”

 

Patton said he’s “all for bicycle lanes” in general. “All this does is, hopefully, make (City Council) representatives reach out and say, ‘Let’s sit down and explain it,’” Patton said. “I don’t think 99% of the people in the city of Cleveland know it’s going to happen.”

 

Patton said that Cleveland’s frosty winters only allow for bike riding about seven months out of the year. “That middle lane’s going to be there 12 months out of the year.”

26 minutes ago, surfohio said:

^ Everybody contact this moron: 

 

State Rep. Tom Patton, a Strongsville Republican who proposed the ban, said he’s heard complaints expressed by businesses along Superior Avenue that they will no longer be able to make left turns, as well as safety concerns made by the Ohio Trucking Association that the bike lane will make deliveries “very challenging in some places.”

 

Patton said he’s “all for bicycle lanes” in general. “All this does is, hopefully, make (City Council) representatives reach out and say, ‘Let’s sit down and explain it,’” Patton said. “I don’t think 99% of the people in the city of Cleveland know it’s going to happen.”

 

Patton said that Cleveland’s frosty winters only allow for bike riding about seven months out of the year. “That middle lane’s going to be there 12 months out of the year.”

Why is a state rep from Strongsville fielding complaints from Cleveland 

Edited February 22, 20232 yr by freefourur

2 hours ago, freefourur said:

Why is a state rep from Strongsville fielding complaints from Cleveland 

 

Because he is funded by the George family. The George family owns property in the Superior Arts District.

8 hours ago, freefourur said:

Why is a state rep from Strongsville fielding complaints from Cleveland 

 

Why did Steve LaTourette deal with Cleveland concerns while in Congress?

 

Or perhaps the business owners live in his district.

Edited February 22, 20232 yr by E Rocc

6 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Because he is funded by the George family. The George family owns property in the Superior Arts District.

Of course they would have some negative say in all of this. Can't have anything nice with them.

6 minutes ago, Mogradal said:

Of course they would have some negative say in all of this. Can't have anything nice with them.

 

The concerns do sound legitimate.  You may not agree with them, but to a business owner truck access is key.

15 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

The concerns do sound legitimate.  You may not agree with them, but to a business owner truck access is key.

 

The concerns may be legitimate, and that may be a reason the Superior Midway project should be reworked. That does not mean the State should block all center-lane bike infrastructure in the three Cs. 

 

Its a bad policy Patton is proposing and his rational is worse. 

3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

The concerns do sound legitimate.  You may not agree with them, but to a business owner truck access is key.

Concerns about truck access are legitimate, but feeling entitled to a direct left turn into your place of business is not. If the trucks have to make a U-turn so they can turn right that is manageable. Lots of business exist on streets with large medians. In Michigan this required maneuver is common enough I've heard it called a Michigan left. If for some reason that is insufficient (edit: impossible) the city could add a space to make this turn, but torpedoing the project makes no sense. 

 

Should there be a dedicated thread for Superior Midway / Lorain cycle track? 

From what I can tell to date those leading the project have gone out of their way to be transparent and listen to the concerns of all people directly affected by the bike lanes, ESPECIALLY the business community.  Obviously not sufficient for the heavy handed Georges.  

More dense cities have center bike lanes and have adjusted just fine. I'd say this proposed change has no legs but this is Ohio and they have passed worse. But the businesses would just have to divert any truck and delivery traffic to the next street over. Drive down that street and make their way towards Superior to that business.

Ohio hates change, adjustments and progress which is why we're such a stagnant state in population growth.

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3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

The concerns do sound legitimate.  You may not agree with them, but to a business owner truck access is key.

 

A truck might have to make one or two extra turns to get to their destination, adding about 60 seconds to their trip.  The idea that the burden of this minor inconvenience to truck drivers warrants cancelling the entire project is absurd.  It's not like we're walling off the driveways of every business on Superior.  They still have truck access.

 

A buffered center lane cycle track is a great improvement for everyone.  Bikers don't have to worry about cars coming out of driveways or parked cars dooring them.  And motorists get bikes off the roadway, out of their way.  

At the risk of piling on to all the toxic and disfunction that is Ohio government l'll just say l am sick of our political "leadership."  

 

We are an ignorant backward state now. I hate that we are sorting ourselves by our beliefs but l fully understand why people move to regions that mirror their sensibilities. God help us. And l'm an atheist.

Cyclists have too much say in traffic engineering projects these days, haphazardness and inconsistency, poor overall vision, and strange experiments in my new hometown of DC are unfolding to the detriment of city dwellers like me who are less single-minded.  - That said, center bike tracks are great for cities and resolve several problems involved with sharing the road along curb lanes.

 

I commute by bike into the very of core of DC daily, yet at other times I'm in my car picking up the kids, bringing home groceries, delivering supplies of one sort or another, and navigating across town on work assignments to more far-flung neighborhoods of the city.  Balance is essential.  Closing off major downtown streets and calling it "progress" is selfish and should not be happening.  

 

From what we experience thanks to the bike lobby(WABA - of which I admit I'm a member) in DC, I'm not optimistic. Cocktail party conversation among my set of Logan/Dupont/NoMA/Truxton Circle friends is that it's become just too much and it's time to move further from the downtown core where the overkill is less cumbersome for all - at least until the kids are grown. Nearly all of us use bikes for most things these days when we are on our own or with our mates.

 

IMO Here comes the next major urban exodus, and the cities, once again, city governments have only themselves to blame.  DC used to do its damned best to support getting car-loving office workers out of the city at 6pm. Traffic engineers ruined neighborhoods like mine (Logan) to do it.  This has ended, but been replaced with a new tyranny on DC. - an inability to get around.  Cleveland, take heed.

23 minutes ago, ryanfrazier said:

 

A truck might have to make one or two extra turns to get to their destination, adding about 60 seconds to their trip.  The idea that the burden of this minor inconvenience to truck drivers warrants cancelling the entire project is absurd.  It's not like we're walling off the driveways of every business on Superior.  They still have truck access.

 

A buffered center lane cycle track is a great improvement for everyone.  Bikers don't have to worry about cars coming out of driveways or parked cars dooring them.  And motorists get bikes off the roadway, out of their way.  

This whole truck argument is ridiculous. Im in Savannah at the moment where every turn is tight. I see trucks make way more complicated turns, and this city is no less thriving because of it.

 

They don't have center bike lanes here but they certainly have very tight autecentric boulevards,  with trees in lieu of bikes. You just widen the major intersections by pushing the boulevard component further away from the intersection allowing the left hand turn lane more room. 

 

This add on to the bill is a republican agenda hidden as an excuse. 

Edited February 22, 20232 yr by KFM44107

10 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Because he is funded by the George family. The George family owns property in the Superior Arts District.

 

This is actually, unfortunately, true. 

 

I know Tom and his family, and he's a good guy an is in politics for the right reasons. However, every time he says something stupid like this, it always has one source - and @KJPnailed it here. 

44 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

This is actually, unfortunately, true. 

 

I know Tom and his family, and he's a good guy an is in politics for the right reasons. However, every time he says something stupid like this, it always has one source - and @KJPnailed it here. 

 

I don't know how you can reconcile any of the above with his actual actions, which is try to screw over the city for political briber... errr I mean donations. 

48 minutes ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

Cyclists have too much say in traffic engineering projects these days, haphazardness and inconsistency, poor overall vision, and strange experiments in my new hometown of DC are unfolding to the detriment of city dwellers like me who are less single-minded.  - That said, center bike tracks are great for cities and resolve several problems involved with sharing the road along curb lanes.

 

I commute by bike into the very of core of DC daily, yet at other times I'm in my car picking up the kids, bringing home groceries, delivering supplies of one sort or another, and navigating across town on work assignments to more far-flung neighborhoods of the city.  Balance is essential.  Closing off major downtown streets and calling it "progress" is selfish and should not be happening.  

 

From what we experience thanks to the bike lobby(WABA - of which I admit I'm a member) in DC, I'm not optimistic. Cocktail party conversation among my set of Logan/Dupont/NoMA/Truxton Circle friends is that it's become just too much and it's time to move further from the downtown core where the overkill is less cumbersome for all - at least until the kids are grown. Nearly all of us use bikes for most things these days when we are on our own or with our mates.

 

IMO Here comes the next major urban exodus, and the cities, once again, city governments have only themselves to blame.  DC used to do its damned best to support getting car-loving office workers out of the city at 6pm. Traffic engineers ruined neighborhoods like mine (Logan) to do it.  This has ended, but been replaced with a new tyranny on DC. - an inability to get around.  Cleveland, take heed.

Cleveland is so so so far away from over indulging bicyclists when it comes to infrastructure.
 

I empathize with your situation in DC, but if we are struggling to get protected bike lanes built, I have a hard time imagining a world where major downtown streets are closed off anywhere in Cleveland. I’m unaware of any proposals to do so. 
 

Frankly, I think this proposed language demonstrates the opposite of your concerns and exposes the lack of influence in Cleveland’s bike lobby as well as the lack of interest in supporting this infrastructure at the state level. 

1 hour ago, ExPatClevGuy said:

Closing off major downtown streets and calling it "progress" is selfish and should not be happening.  

 

 

What closed off major downtown streets are you referring to?  DC or Cle?  I'm not aware of that happening in either city.  In DC the only street I'm aware of being closed was Beach Drive inside Rock Creek Park, which is not a major downtown street.  In Cle, the Superior project maintains vehicle lanes.  Nothings getting closed off.

I'm responding to posts about closing down Huron Rd behind Tower City (so trucks will only spend 30 seconds to go another way) and the suggestion about removing parking form Prospect Ave altogether as mentioned above in this thread.

Edited February 22, 20232 yr by ExPatClevGuy

47 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

I don't know how you can reconcile any of the above with his actual actions, which is try to screw over the city for political briber... errr I mean donations. 

 

To be frank - his primary concern is working with firemen, police, and small businesses. Usually if he takes up a cause outside of that purview it's as a favor. 

 

And I mean it in the sense that he's a good father and good guy overall. At the end of the day, I promise you he won't hold this up as long as the city meets with him (pie me in the face if I'm wrong lol). Having said that, I don't love that he carriers water for the biggest tool in Cuyahoga County