1 hour ago, viscomi said:

I wont take the twitter image to be 100% to what is going to happens but if it is, its just cutting into the ped right of way not the road surface and might actually even have the opposite effect tree lawns give to drivers that they are buffered and separate from the pedestrian realm.  

If it’s actually landscaped (I.e. not just grass), that in and of itself can have traffic calming effects. But obviously it takes time to have mature trees, etc. 

6 hours ago, JB said:

Do this with most streets.

I wonder why someone downvoted this.
 

Agreed, it makes total sense from an aesthetic and environmental standpoint to do this to all streets. 

I'm not so sure about that.  Just having tree lawns is not going to result in any environmental benefits, and requires constant mowing.  So there are environmental costs, too.  I'd rather see planter boxes for trees installed (and maintained).

2 hours ago, X said:

I'm not so sure about that.  Just having tree lawns is not going to result in any environmental benefits, and requires constant mowing.  So there are environmental costs, too.  I'd rather see planter boxes for trees installed (and maintained).

I should have clarified: any plants that replace concrete, whether that be tree lawns, trees or planters. 

9 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

I should have clarified: any plants that replace concrete, whether that be tree lawns, trees or planters. 

I took it as them lining up the street with trees. They could also plant some native plants/grasses to take up the space as well. These help the local ecosystem and requires way less maintenance.

50 minutes ago, JB said:

I took it as them lining up the street with trees. They could also plant some native plants/grasses to take up the space as well. These help the local ecosystem and requires way less maintenance.

 

Adding rain gardens into the mix would also be hugely beneficial and relatively low maintenance. 

On 5/24/2024 at 10:55 AM, GISguy said:

 

Why is the bottom image not a no? It is just as bad.

On 5/24/2024 at 7:21 PM, X said:

I'm not so sure about that.  Just having tree lawns is not going to result in any environmental benefits, and requires constant mowing.  So there are environmental costs, too.  I'd rather see planter boxes for trees installed (and maintained).

 

4 hours ago, columbus17 said:

Why is the bottom image not a no? It is just as bad.

I'd imagine the main environmental benefit has to do with runoff. Impermeable surfaces create lots of problems with regards to runoff. I'm not quickly able to find any studies on the matter, but I'd be willing to bet breaking up the impermeable surfaces with natural permeable surfaces is better with respect to runoff. 

 

As other commenters have pointed out there are even better solutions that could be explored, but I'm glad to see the city doing something. I'm sure this will result in a more pleasant street for those living in this area, and I'm happy to celebrate this little win. 

 

And it's worth remembering, they are planting 67 new trees. Perhaps that's not game changing, but it's still significant. Again, little wins! Will they be as tall as I'd like? Probably not. Could there be more? Probably. But at this point I'm glad to see any forward progress and I'm hoping to see more. Imperfect movement in the right direction is good and should be encouraged. 

7 hours ago, Ethan said:

 

I'd imagine the main environmental benefit has to do with runoff. Impermeable surfaces create lots of problems with regards to runoff. I'm not quickly able to find any studies on the matter, but I'd be willing to bet breaking up the impermeable surfaces with natural permeable surfaces is better with respect to runoff. 

 

As other commenters have pointed out there are even better solutions that could be explored, but I'm glad to see the city doing something. I'm sure this will result in a more pleasant street for those living in this area, and I'm happy to celebrate this little win. 

 

And it's worth remembering, they are planting 67 new trees. Perhaps that's not game changing, but it's still significant. Again, little wins! Will they be as tall as I'd like? Probably not. Could there be more? Probably. But at this point I'm glad to see any forward progress and I'm hoping to see more. Imperfect movement in the right direction is good and should be encouraged. 

It needs trees. Not just grass - just grass is useless, will become a weak spot for the surrounding concrete, and will grow weeds and become even more unsightly.

Is this a worn out lawn Im looking at? 
Can’t they maintain this better? 

No, they can’t. 

Omg there’s the largest body of fresh water right there lol. We still cannot keep grass alive? It’s not even summer yet! 

A lot of events happened lately most likely causing this. Curious to see if in a few weeks it has been treated and in much better shape.

yeah I was going to say I was there last Sunday for the marathon and it was as green as could be so this must have been very recent. Will probably bounce back with this recent rain I would think. Either way it has not looked like that for very long. few days tops

Any idea when/if they’ll be turning the Public Square fountains on?

when they are done with the construction

@KJP any updates on when the three art installations on the malls by Dion will be ready? I hope they weren’t cancelled.

Can someone explain why they always seem to fully repave a street BEFORE they tear it back up to do utility work? 

 

They repaved the rough portion of 105th street by University Circle FINALLY just to tear up portions of the street for utility work of some sort. 

1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Can someone explain why they always seem to fully repave a street BEFORE they tear it back up to do utility work? 

 

They repaved the rough portion of 105th street by University Circle FINALLY just to tear up portions of the street for utility work of some sort. 

 

Possibly a utility repair but if it's an expansive area it was probably poor planning. Basically the agency responsible for paving is not talking to the agency responsible for utilities. There should be a moratorium on work after a street is paved but I have no idea if Cleveland operates like that.

2 hours ago, Rustbelter said:

 

Possibly a utility repair but if it's an expansive area it was probably poor planning. Basically the agency responsible for paving is not talking to the agency responsible for utilities. There should be a moratorium on work after a street is paved but I have no idea if Cleveland operates like that.

The portion of the repaved street is about a city block, with work being done on about 5 different areas underground. Your explanation makes a lot of sense though.

Edited June 5, 20241 yr by MyPhoneDead

Couldn't snap a pic because I was driving but they are really deep into the work on public square middle section. Saw some bollards already installed and the whole street was torn up and being worked on. Didn't realize it was happening so quickly 

Here’s a crummy pic I snapped Monday   

Here's a map of the 100 speed tables going in, definitely leaves something to be desired BUT love to see some of these through streets get limited. 

 

https://clevelandgis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/instant/basic/index.html?appid=0b4e789a00d4449c9e21aac3a9c7cf13

Edited June 8, 20241 yr by GISguy
Tried to do an xpost but didn't work

Definitely a needed thing on even more side streets. It's crazy the number of people who blast through residential side streets.

I'm very happy to see this and hope they just start adding another 100 every year. We really need some in areas that see a lot of pedestrians. The one in Tremont is the only one that maybe counts. I get that this was targeted at lower traffic areas, but we need a lot more if they want to keep improving the growing areas of the city. 

 

Being someone who walks 10k+ steps a day and bikes all over, it's absolutely wild what I see and how unsafe I feel outside of a car at times in our "trendy" and walkable areas. Bike lanes are used as passing lanes, cars averaging 40 in 25 zones and maybe 5% actually stop for pedestrians. At least the main strip of W25 is almost always backed up enough that cars can't drive too fast. 

 

The hingetown area is a perfect example of this. In the .4 miles from W25 to W33, you have around 1,000 people living right there on Detroit. Then you have all of the people visiting the neighborhood and walking around. People drive like it's the shoreway because the road is horribly designed. A few times a day you will see a car going 60+ down Detroit. Instead of waiting for the car infront of them to turn left, people maintain their 40mph and use the bike lanes to pass. They even speed around cars that have stopped for pedestrians to cross which is even more dangerous. The bike lane markers were all destroyed within months when they were put up 2 years ago and they're often just treated as extra parking. There's a 12 foot wide bike lane, but half of the people ride their bikes on the sidewalk because it's not safe. 

 

I've seen 2 accidents happen right in front of me, and my friends in the neighborhood see even more. One was almost hit crossing the street with their dog by some car going 60-70. I can't believe no one has been killed in that stretch. 

Edited June 9, 20241 yr by PlanCleveland

Was downtown yesterday and the amount of dead trees was staggering. Add that on to the random holes in the road and sidewalk I noticed a well. City has a lot of work to do.

3 hours ago, JB said:

Was downtown yesterday and the amount of dead trees was staggering. Add that on to the random holes in the road and sidewalk I noticed a well. City has a lot of work to do.

 

Soon to be several more. It's difficult to grow trees in those 4x4 squares surrounded by impervious surface without a huge amount of tending.

2 hours ago, Mendo said:

 

Soon to be several more. It's difficult to grow trees in those 4x4 squares surrounded by impervious surface without a huge amount of tending.

You’d think they use a different method to grow these trees. 

On 6/9/2024 at 12:46 PM, PlanCleveland said:

I'm very happy to see this and hope they just start adding another 100 every year. We really need some in areas that see a lot of pedestrians. The one in Tremont is the only one that maybe counts. I get that this was targeted at lower traffic areas, but we need a lot more if they want to keep improving the growing areas of the city. 

 

Being someone who walks 10k+ steps a day and bikes all over, it's absolutely wild what I see and how unsafe I feel outside of a car at times in our "trendy" and walkable areas. Bike lanes are used as passing lanes, cars averaging 40 in 25 zones and maybe 5% actually stop for pedestrians. At least the main strip of W25 is almost always backed up enough that cars can't drive too fast. 

 

The hingetown area is a perfect example of this. In the .4 miles from W25 to W33, you have around 1,000 people living right there on Detroit. Then you have all of the people visiting the neighborhood and walking around. People drive like it's the shoreway because the road is horribly designed. A few times a day you will see a car going 60+ down Detroit. Instead of waiting for the car infront of them to turn left, people maintain their 40mph and use the bike lanes to pass. They even speed around cars that have stopped for pedestrians to cross which is even more dangerous. The bike lane markers were all destroyed within months when they were put up 2 years ago and they're often just treated as extra parking. There's a 12 foot wide bike lane, but half of the people ride their bikes on the sidewalk because it's not safe. 

 

I've seen 2 accidents happen right in front of me, and my friends in the neighborhood see even more. One was almost hit crossing the street with their dog by some car going 60-70. I can't believe no one has been killed in that stretch. 

 

I only 'love' this because this is why I'm so vocal about it and upset by the city patting themselves on the back over these. 100 is better than zero, but conditions are terrible out there and it's crazy how slow they seem to be working. I get it, nothing is easy, bureaucracy, cost, etc. etc., but "People Over Cars" is more than putting traffic calming in the hip neighborhoods, or scattershot speed tables here and there. The streets aren't getting any narrower (outside of Ohio City/D-S with recent interventions) so why aren't we installing 1000 variations of these over a summer. I continuously go back to Detroit, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh - similar financial situation and it seems like these speedbumps are on sooo many streets.

 

In the meantime I'll keep white knuckling my bike commute into downtown from OB - W25/Pearl (25 mph) is dreadful at almost all times of the day.

1 hour ago, GISguy said:

"People Over Cars" is more than putting traffic calming in the hip neighborhoods, or scattershot speed tables here and there. The streets aren't getting any narrower (outside of Ohio City/D-S with recent interventions) so why aren't we installing 1000 variations of these over a summer. I continuously go back to Detroit, Buffalo, and Pittsburgh - similar financial situation and it seems like these speedbumps are on sooo many streets.

I've noticed a lot of improvements in Cincy and Columbus over the past few years as well.

 

There are a couple intersections with some bike lane markers to day light them, but other than that I haven't seen or heard of many other improvements coming. There are so many cheap and quick ways to do these things, but it's like the city refuses to do anything that isn't permanent structure, or even just test things out. I know some people working for the city are really trying, but I guess they just aren't being prioritized. There are cities like Buffalo and Cincy testing out a lot of different traffic calming strategies with cheap, impermanent things to see what works and if they should move forward with a more permanent solution. Other cities are testing out things like pedestrianizing a few streets for a month or 2 during the summer. We need to be doing more trials of things so people can actually see the possibilities and outcomes of these projects. Businesses are weary of closing down part of W29? Get 8 crowd control fences the city already has and close it down for a month to show the businesses the impact on their bottom line. Businesses on Lorain are scared of the bike lane? Remove and block off parking on one side of the street for a month and temporarily create the bike way. Instead we let their fears grow for 10+ years while we plan and look for funding. See how it impacts their business and make adjustments if needed before spending millions on something they're all scared of and opposed to. 

 

I can think of 1 test that was actually done in the last 12-18 months, the Bridge/44 intersection next to Mason's. It was very successful over the 6 months, but then they removed the "loaned deliniators and planters" and are waiting for funding for a permanent solution. Can we really not afford a few thousand deliniators and planters to do things like this at other intersections?This test was largely built and painted by volunteers as well. People who live nearby will do the work if you just give them the tools. They could probably go to the Cleveland Foundation or another nonprofit and ask for $50k to do 100 intersections. 

 

Sorry I always word vomit on topics like this haha. But I would just like to see the city be a bit more cutting edge, vs being lapped by our peer cities on simple things like this. 

I'm with you @PlanCleveland- I'm always 2.3 seconds away from buying 100 plungers and gluing them to the road overnight to show that no, the bike lane is not a passing lane but you know the city would be out the next day removing them. Funny how they move quickly on some things and glacial pace on others. I don't know how many ppl dying it requires for them to put it first, but we're trending in a very wrong direction right now and there's little sign of it easing up. 

 

I was kind of shocked this weekend out and about in OC/D-S how many people were using the sidewalk on their bikes (in spite of certain people in City Hall saying Franklin is one of the safest bike boulevards in the city), it's arguably the safest place to bike in the city, no doubt, but obviously not safe enough...now extrapolate that to areas that don't have the political clout of OC and see how bike/ped improvements are completely non-existent.

 

The process to get a temporary speed table is atrocious (and they only installed ~10 when they had 100) - you need to request a speed sign that records all the info about traffic, it stays up for ~3 days and that's what they base their decisions off of. I'm sorry, but I don't care how many cars fall in the median, if two cars go 70 up my street, that's two cars too many.

19 minutes ago, GISguy said:

if two cars go 70 up my street, that's two cars too many.

This is such a great point. Who cares what the median is, the max is the data point we should be focusing on and limiting. 

 

 

But even when they see the data, most of the time nothing is done. I know someone in the Columbus Rd/Duck Island area block club. A few years ago they all complained so much about the Columbus hill the city finally sent officers to observe drivers for a few days. They radared someone going 80mph down the hill at 1 in the afternoon. Supposedly after that, the city asked some CSU students for project ideas on how to calm the traffic there. Then said none of them would work, or they were worried the changes could cause someone going a high speed to crash into the bridge and cause shipping delays. People are already going 80 and could damage the bridge today, don't you think we should be trying to prevent that? This area will soon have 1000 new residents next to it on Scranton, and has all of the new and existing parks a short walk away. 

You know safer streets and Vision Zero have no hope when the Mayor's SUV is running red lights and causing accidents.

Had lunch in downtown Toledo. It’s not half the Cleveland is of course. But they’ve done a fantastic job with keeping it clean, plants and trees are all alive etc. 

From the old pics l've seen of Toledo it had a real nice downtown density with a great old midrise skyline. It's too bad the city has fallen on hard times. 

People complain about the trees here all the time, but I think we need to get on the city about the utter disgrace some of the downtown streets are in.  I was walking by the Daily Planet on Saturday, and just LOOK at the condition of the roads!!!! The Bibb administration should be ashamed!  I was only passing by, but it had clearly caused at least one accident!  Typical City of Cleveland, leaving these potentially dangerous eyesores everywhere!

/s

 

Ok, now seriously, they've turned Superior into downtown Metropolis for filming of the new Superman movie (which, based on the flag, apparently they're putting Metropolis in Delaware?).  The best places to get a look are the second floor windows from the Stokes wing of the library or through the grating in the middle park/annex area.  Obviously this is exciting, but I wonder what is being done with the actual businesses that are there.  Also, once the rubble is cleared up, will the city use this as a chance to do any beautification on the area?  Do the movie people just make it look like it was?  Anyone know?

 

Also, this seemed like the most logical thread for this, but if it fits better elsewhere...sorry...

Some shots of PS redo (feel free to move to PS thread): 

 

Really hoping the asphalt looking patch fades...!

 

 

 

still trying to figure out why they used black filler instead of gray ugh

^ Cleveland Dept of Public Works vs James Corner Field Operations. 

Sadly - it’s better than I’d expect them to do after the 9th and Euclid disaster. 

44 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said:

^ Cleveland Dept of Public Works vs James Corner Field Operations. 

 

It was a private contractor, but(!) that means someone at the city had to approve this crap. 

1 hour ago, GISguy said:

Some shots of PS redo (feel free to move to PS thread): 

 

Really hoping the asphalt looking patch fades...!

 

 

That was the color of the stuff when it originally went in, so I think the answer is yes, it will fade or dirty to the color on the left.

Looks fantastic now!  Not sure why the city did not originally include pollards.  Why would Frank Jackson and his administration not include regulations when they hired the Conors firm?  Glad it is now improved.  

I wish and wonder if it is still necessary to paint the crosswalks and road lanes through Public Square. It is nice to see it clear of markings

54 minutes ago, sizzlinbeef said:

 

That was the color of the stuff when it originally went in, so I think the answer is yes, it will fade or dirty to the color on the left.

I hope you’re right, but this is cropped from a photo I took literally the week it opened. 

I thought the stones were originally set with a sand mixture.  I added this link to show photos back from May 2016 that say a sand mixture was used to set the stones. 

 

I also note how many trees have been lost on the southern half of Public Square. I don't understand why they were not replaced.

https://www.cleveland.com/architecture/2016/05/first_look_nearly_finished_pub.html

 

Edited July 11, 2024Jul 11 by dave2017

I'm  a little confused about these recent Public Square upgrades. Most of it still looks like a regular street and cars are always parked there. Also, the curb at those bollards where the pavers were installed should be a flat/mountable type.

3 hours ago, Rustbelter said:

I'm  a little confused about these recent Public Square upgrades. Most of it still looks like a regular street and cars are always parked there. Also, the curb at those bollards where the pavers were installed should be a flat/mountable type.

The curb was added on the cobblestone "promenade" paths because Mayor Jackson found those two crossings to be dangerous. They consolidated the  crosswalk to the center of Public Square and by adding the curb it deters pedestrians from using those paths

This is sooooooo much better. Now I won't have to be embarrassed to show people from out of town what public square looks like lol. 

It will never not be embarassing until they eliminate the road through the middle of it. Completely half assed project for a decent original design.