Does Bedrock own that property?

22 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Does Bedrock own that property?

 

GCRTA owns the hillside/air rights north of Eagle. The city and MLO Properties owns the land/air rights south of Eagle to Lorain-Carnegie.

Ian, that is fantastic and the vision Cleveland needs. 

4 hours ago, KJP said:

 

 

 

 

I’m nominating @urbanetics_for mayor - imagine the look of the city after one term with him at the helm!  It’s so much about vision and creative thinking. We’ve all seen those home remake  shows where creative designers transform a living space or an entire house.  Afterwards, you wonder how the redo wasn’t obvious to everyone before! Imagining a streetscape or vista in a new way requires passion , creativity and vision.  Cleveland is a city that has the potential to transform into one of America’s  great cities in which to live. In certain ways we know that to be true already.   I know it’s been said many times before - but every time I see a new transformational vision like what Ian presented - it reminds me of the still untapped potential of this town. To be sure, there are huge challenges ahead, but I still feel a sense of excitement about what’s to come and what is possible and I really appreciate the insights of contributors here on this forum.  Props to those like Mr. McCormack that are working another Kind of creativity - the political  heavy lifting to turn  visions into reality. 

Edited August 9, 20204 yr by CleveFan

Those are nice pictures but who would use this space? I feel like Cleveland has a knack for creating green space where nobody can utilize it. There are probably 0 people that live within half a mile of that intersection.

Even if no one ever uses it, just having an improved garden area there at the entrance to downtown would be worthwhile. But I think it would get used by joggers, much like the Centennial Trail that links Tremont with Scranton Peninsula where no one lives, yet somehow gets used. And I think it would be a useful route for bicycles between downtown and the Towpath Trail. I can also see it getting used by pedestrians on the 130+ days that there's a Cavs, Indians or other event at Gateway.

 

But just as important, I think it might spur development of the MLO Properties and city-owned land just north of Carnegie. And it will make the current Sherwin-Williams HQ more attractive for a residential conversion. 

Edited August 9, 20204 yr by KJP

58 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

Those are nice pictures but who would use this space? I feel like Cleveland has a knack for creating green space where nobody can utilize it. There are probably 0 people that live within half a mile of that intersection.

Throw one of these puppies in there and watch it fill up.

On 8/9/2020 at 8:52 AM, bumsquare said:

Those are nice pictures but who would use this space? I feel like Cleveland has a knack for creating green space where nobody can utilize it. There are probably 0 people that live within half a mile of that intersection.

There are going to be a lot more people very close with easy access to that area in the very near future - if you think of that area As part of a larger connected network of walkable and bike able paths and trails around downtown and neighborhoods like Ohio City you might think a little differently about it’s potential. There’s no reason to go there now but that doesn’t mean it has to be that way in the future. 

On 8/9/2020 at 8:52 AM, bumsquare said:

Those are nice pictures but who would use this space? I feel like Cleveland has a knack for creating green space where nobody can utilize it. There are probably 0 people that live within half a mile of that intersection.

How big do you think downtown is?  there are probably 10K people live within a 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile of that intersection. maybe more.  Plus have you ever heard of "running the bridges"?? People run that loop every day.  people bike and run over Hope bridge from Ohio City and Tremont also.  I won't even mention the 2 massive sports venues across the street. 

35 minutes ago, mack34 said:

How big do you think downtown is?  there are probably 10K people live within a 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile of that intersection. maybe more.  Plus have you ever heard of "running the bridges"?? People run that loop every day.  people bike and run over Hope bridge from Ohio City and Tremont also.  I won't even mention the 2 massive sports venues across the street. 

It’s 3/4 of a mile to public square. It’s 6/10 of a mile to Heinen’s. It’s 3/4 of a mile to the Lumen. It’s a mile to the Warehouse district. That’s how big I think it is. 

and a whole bunch of people live there

39 minutes ago, mack34 said:

How big do you think downtown is?  there are probably 10K people live within a 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile of that intersection. maybe more.  Plus have you ever heard of "running the bridges"?? People run that loop every day.  people bike and run over Hope bridge from Ohio City and Tremont also.  I won't even mention the 2 massive sports venues across the street. 

 

Was going to mention that this is a very popular running route with the near west-siders. Didn't know it had an official name though, lol.

 

I would like to point out that this particular plan doesn't address the biggest issue, in that there is no sidewalk on the south side of Huron. 

^^ yup, they tried to get one added to the plan, if memory serves, but there was no political will to push for it.  More important to have those 6 lanes of traffic!!

 

13 minutes ago, mack34 said:

^^ yup, they tried to get one added to the plan, if memory serves, but there was no political will to push for it.  More important to have those 6 lanes of traffic!!

 

 

ugh. I'm used to it now but It's not a good look to the new or potential residents to the city in my opinion. 

What would be enlightening  would be to hear some actual details/news pertaining to what Kerry McCormack alluded to - that there are conversations happening about this area.  Wonder what kind of conversation and who is part of it. 

I don't know how you'd fund this.. don't think it would qualify for Clean Ohio funds. 

On 8/9/2020 at 8:52 AM, bumsquare said:

Those are nice pictures but who would use this space? I feel like Cleveland has a knack for creating green space where nobody can utilize it. There are probably 0 people that live within half a mile of that intersection.

My significant other and I use this space often. From breaks during biking/running, to meeting with other people coming downtown from the west side or taking our dog to the grassy area. Huron Rd E/Prospect Ave E is within a half mile and that street houses over 1 person(s). Beyond beautifying an entrance to the city, it's great to have well maintained, functional areas to break/relax in.

Not that I think it won't be used, but amenities like that aren't necessarily targeted to current users, but to encourage the type of development you want to see around it. Public infrastructure is often (usually, actually) a seed to future development, not a reaction to what's there already.

 

There is a chicken and egg problem with that section in particular of no residents AND no amenities. But as-is, a lot of people pass THROUGH that area on foot or on bike*. A simple park / resting area seems like the perfect start to me.

 

* A lot of that traffic is driven by the Jake and the Q, and I'm sort of hoping/assuming things will be more normal by the time this project gets done. But that question looms over almost every project.

 

 

VERY exciting for me... they are replacing the streetlights along Euclid Avenue today!  We will see what night brings but hoping these are brighter.  So many are out so this is a big step!

^ If they are like the one they just put up outside my house, they will be very, very bright.  You will be able to read a newspaper by them.

I just got one myself (W 40s). 

6 minutes ago, gruver said:

^ If they are like the one they just put up outside my house, they will be very, very bright.  You will be able to read a newspaper by them.

Are you on a main road? They can dim them (I'm in OB and I noticed they were MUCH brighter when I went to visit a buddy in the W. 80's) but I don't know how you'd go about requesting something like that.

41 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Are you on a main road? They can dim them (I'm in OB and I noticed they were MUCH brighter when I went to visit a buddy in the W. 80's) but I don't know how you'd go about requesting something like that.

Depending on your situation (e.g. if the light was coming into your home window), the luminaire could also be aimed incorrectly. One of the positives of the LEDs is that the light stream is much more controlled.

Maybe they can remove the Christmas tree lights off of the center median posts that now remain all year long. 

@dave2017 I call that out every chance I get on social media.  Looks like we are just going to have to do it ourselves lol

The new lights are great. Driving up Fairhill, its like night and day (no pun intended) when you go from Cleveland into Shaker. The road on the other hand, is the complete opposite. At least the bright lights on the Cleveland side allow you to properly see and avoid the potholes now.

Speaking of the lights, the map from the last page has been updated through Tuesday, 8/25 and now says 71.60% complete - 43,522/60,779.

 

https://www.cpp.org/Initiatives/LED-Streetlight-Installation

This certainly counts as atmosphere....

 

 

Okay so, I've become absolutely smitten with Norton Commons, pedestrian oriented neighborhood in Prospect, KY. Seen below

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3249284,-85.5654942,3a,75y,277.9h,95.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZI0cd5nUerIeXAqXK7q3zw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Could you imagine if we could re-plan portions of the East end of Downtown into Midtown as this sort of development, except with elements of mixed income to avoid displacement 

But first we have to deal with this (watch the video) which is not only unsightly, lazy and anti-pedestrian, it's destroying sidewalks and probably not compliant with federal law,  aka the ADA Act....

 

 

Edited October 14, 20204 yr by KJP

What exactly is going on there?  Whose cars are those?  Yeesh. 

My guess is City of Cleveland, otherwise they would be towed in a minute.

 

9 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Okay so, I've become absolutely smitten with Norton Commons, pedestrian oriented neighborhood in Prospect, KY. Seen below

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3249284,-85.5654942,3a,75y,277.9h,95.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZI0cd5nUerIeXAqXK7q3zw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Could you imagine if we could re-plan portions of the East end of Downtown into Midtown as this sort of development, except with elements of mixed income to avoid displacement 

 

Like the building style? Or the layout? 

10 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Okay so, I've become absolutely smitten with Norton Commons, pedestrian oriented neighborhood in Prospect, KY. Seen below

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3249284,-85.5654942,3a,75y,277.9h,95.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZI0cd5nUerIeXAqXK7q3zw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Could you imagine if we could re-plan portions of the East end of Downtown into Midtown as this sort of development, except with elements of mixed income to avoid displacement 

Almost looks like Prospect between I90 and E55, if some of the parking lots were filled in more. 

1 hour ago, viscomi said:

 

Like the building style? Or the layout? 

the layout. A pedestrian friendly residential development with retail/restaurants/grocery and green space all centrally located. That would be a dream.

 

I don’t think the architectural style would fly up here though lol

I think some of that scale of development would work well on secondary and side streets of Downtown's eastern side and Midtown.  But it would be hard to replicate that "layout", as it's a product of a centralized plan and singular developer working on a large greenfield space.  Any attempt at integrating those ideas into an existing urban neighborhood is going to be necessarily more ad-hoc, owing to the limitations of existing building stock and infrastructure and fragmented land ownership.  Any attempt to replicate it in whole would be pretty much bound to fail.

6 hours ago, YABO713 said:

the layout. A pedestrian friendly residential development with retail/restaurants/grocery and green space all centrally located. That would be a dream.

 

I don’t think the architectural style would fly up here though lol

Architecture seems nice as well though. No absurd McMansion style designs. Hidden parking. Design varies from house to house preventing any kind of boring cookie cutter development. Plentiful front porches to enliven the experience. Historic motifs. But to be fair, 2.5/3 stories for houses would be nicer and give a more urban feel than it's 1-2. And there's definitely still some ugly ones. But something reminiscent of this plan would be incredible for just east of downtown.

9 hours ago, X said:

I think some of that scale of development would work well on secondary and side streets of Downtown's eastern side and Midtown.  But it would be hard to replicate that "layout", as it's a product of a centralized plan and singular developer working on a large greenfield space.  Any attempt at integrating those ideas into an existing urban neighborhood is going to be necessarily more ad-hoc, owing to the limitations of existing building stock and infrastructure and fragmented land ownership.  Any attempt to replicate it in whole would be pretty much bound to fail.

 

INNOVATION DRIVES GREATNESS! Draw up some alternatives, @X lol. Let's go pitch it to a builder.

23 hours ago, YABO713 said:

Okay so, I've become absolutely smitten with Norton Commons, pedestrian oriented neighborhood in Prospect, KY. Seen below

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.3249284,-85.5654942,3a,75y,277.9h,95.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZI0cd5nUerIeXAqXK7q3zw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Could you imagine if we could re-plan portions of the East end of Downtown into Midtown as this sort of development, except with elements of mixed income to avoid displacement 

 

I'm looking for more out of our Midtown, more of a flow from Downtown to UC, where you hardly notice a difference driving from Case to Public Square.  More along the lines of a NY Midtown than the KY deal. 

13 minutes ago, NR said:

 

I'm looking for more out of our Midtown, more of a flow from Downtown to UC, where you hardly notice a difference driving from Case to Public Square.  More along the lines of a NY Midtown than the KY deal. 

Issue being - we could develop our midtown with new, single family neighborhoods being walkable to the centralized commercial areas. We just don’t have the population to support a midtown with anything comparable to NY’s massing.

My issue with using that layout (in it's entirety) is it would require a scorched earth approach. That's non-starter for me, there is just way too many lovely factories, warehouses and walkups east of downtown. Too much Cleveland would be lost.  But ya we could defiantly apply some of that layout ad-hoc within the existing blocks, which are huge to begin with. We need to break the blocks up with narrow streets, 18'ish. Do this and then re-parcel (small) plots to sell off individuals or small developers to let them plug in the fine grain structures. That's how I would go about it anyways. I actually think about this stuff often, it's probably not healthy lol. All this would require a very strong progressive city plan and I just don't see it that happening anytime soon. 

Midtown is so odd to me. Euclid Avenue downtown sees TONS of residential projects. University Circle's section of Euclid Avenue see's the same. Midtown though struggles. Residential developers seem hesitant to pull the trigger and more than a decade after the Euclid Corridor project it still lacks a true identity and direction to me. They call it the Health Tech Corridor but not much has been built regarding that since that designation popped up. 

17 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Midtown is so odd to me. Euclid Avenue downtown sees TONS of residential projects. University Circle's section of Euclid Avenue see's the same. Midtown though struggles. Residential developers seem hesitant to pull the trigger and more than a decade after the Euclid Corridor project it still lacks a true identity and direction to me. They call it the Health Tech Corridor but not much has been built regarding that since that designation popped up.

It is strange.  I suppose that happens when a city loses half its population.  A decade or so ago, I mused whether the City should just finish the job, and with a few architectural jewels excepted, level everything between Carnegie and Chester and create a "Central Park."

I'm glad someone else brought up Norton Commons in Prospect, KY, but I don't get why that type of manufactured development would do well in Downtown Cleveland. However, I really really like that development. Most of those master-planned mixed use communities end up being badly planned, too car oriented, or look too perfect. Norton Commons on the other hand is really well build and essentially takes the design of a traditional small town. Very walkable, nice main street commercial district. Most places like it have way too much parking, or huge car oriented plazas instead of main streets. I also like the variation of architecture for each building so it looks more organically built. If you took someone who isn't into urbanism like us and placed them on the main street in Norton Commons, they'd probably not know it was all brand new, especially as many of the buildings are built in the local historic architectural styles. This street scene for example looks very organic and nothing like most manufactured suburban "town centers"

Edited October 16, 20204 yr by Dblcut3

14 hours ago, gruver said:

It is strange.  I suppose that happens when a city loses half its population.  A decade or so ago, I mused whether the City should just finish the job, and with a few architectural jewels excepted, level everything between Carnegie and Chester and create a "Central Park."

Funny - I’ve had a similar fantasy before  - an expansive  park - one inspired by “Central Park” -but  in the midtown corridor. Of course, I’m sure that acquisition of land would make the idea a non-starter. All I know is that midtown should be more than a drive- through  between two growing downtowns. 
While positives are occurring in midtown, they seem to be somewhat random at best -I was thrilled to see a Dream Hotel unveiled - and then disappointed to see it quickly put “on hold”.  I’m certain there are others on the forum with better expertise and insight into the state of midtown.  What would be the necessary game- changer to spark midtown and motivate new residents and businesses to locate there? Perhaps the health corridor was thought to be that linchpin but I don’t think the related development has been significant in midtown. It seems like an ongoing and daunting challenge. Hoping to hear topical  insight from Forumers familiar with the realistic possibilities.  Also, I apologize - I mistakenly posted in Streetscapes - thinking I was in “Midtown development”- if someone knows how to port this post over to the midtown thread -  please feel free! 

Edited October 16, 20204 yr by CleveFan

Giving an opinion based on literally nothing other than my own thoughts, I think the big issue with Midtown development is honestly that UC and Downtown still have so much development capacity left. Maybe a developer that has a higher tolerance for risk will go for it, but I would guess we're still a ways away from Midtown truly turning the corner. The chance of a project flopping there is just so much higher than in the other two places. Who knows, maybe Sherwin filling in the Square and taking one of the biggest plots of land available will lead to development working it's way further east.