July 22, 20222 yr 14 hours ago, jonoh81 said: To be perfectly honest, I think it's going to be very difficult to hit 40,000 residents within another 18 years. There are 2 main problems I see stopping it: 1. Household size is smaller now than what it was the last time Downtown had 40K-50K residents. 2. Building height/density in modern projects has generally not been big enough to offset those smaller households. If we were building 10-20 story residential projects with 300-500 units each, it would be more doable, but we're still getting a lot of low-rise development with 100-150 units for single people and couples. Consider all of the Downtown develpment that has occurred since the early 2000s when Coleman was pushing for housing there. Now consider that only roughly 7,000 people have been added over the last 20 years with all of those new buildings and renovations and it's still barely 25% of the way there. Something's got to change to reach those lofty numbers. As for a Broad Street makeover like that pictured... we've heard that song and dance for decades. I'm going to be from Missouri until I see the asphalt being pulled up. I think maybe 30,000 might be doable.
July 22, 20222 yr 14 minutes ago, Toddguy said: I think maybe 30,000 might be doable. That’s what I’m thinking as well. Downtown would definitely need a grocery store for it to happen.
July 22, 20222 yr 50 minutes ago, NW24HX said: No one remembers this now but Coleman's original goal in 2002 wasn't 10,000 residents but 10,000 residential units downtown by the city's bicentennial in 2012 It's 2022, and we still haven't hit that number (to my knowledge) In fairness, the recession didn’t help that at all. During that time a lot of smaller builders and companies went under, so there just wasn’t as many companies to build either.
July 22, 20222 yr 1 minute ago, Kriegs said: That’s what I’m thinking as well. Downtown would definitely need a grocery store for it to happen. The peninsula project is trying to pull a grocer
July 22, 20222 yr 1 minute ago, Kriegs said: That’s what I’m thinking as well. Downtown would definitely need a grocery store for it to happen. Or two. And an urban Target(or something like it), and...well you know. All of the things that would make it a real viable neighborhood for living. *I don't think they really need to fly the coop and put in an Applebee's and all but you know what I mean lol.
July 22, 20222 yr If Downtown had the same density of Paris we would have a population of 127,200 (2.4 Sq Miles x 53,000/sq mi). Paris is mostly 5-7 story buildings. Of course this population wouldn't be possible because our R/W are wider and there are a lot of uses other than residential. But I think the 40,000 could be reached as long as we keep filling in parking lots with 5-7 story buildings.
July 22, 20222 yr 3 minutes ago, VintageLife said: The peninsula project is trying to pull a grocer That would be great for that area and East Franklinton. We could also use one for the other side of our downtown across the river. I just wanted to post this so I could discuss us having two sides to our downtown, on either side of the river lol. Just give us a few towers on the west side part and it is done!
July 22, 20222 yr 14 hours ago, jonoh81 said: To be perfectly honest, I think it's going to be very difficult to hit 40,000 residents within another 18 years. What are you talking about? Millennial Tower is coming to save the day.
July 22, 20222 yr ...and we can all live in Harmony... while a towering Christopher Columbus watches over all from the top of Capitol Place Tower... like a pheonix from the as...phalt... they shall rise...
July 22, 20222 yr 9 minutes ago, DTCL11 said: ...and we can all live in Harmony... while a towering Christopher Columbus watches over all from the top of Capitol Place Tower... like a pheonix from the as...phalt... they shall rise... Live in Harmony...Tower? And if the CPT is 900=1000 feet tall they can put a small statue of CC on the top-out of reach of being pulled down...plus maybe it can be part of like a lightning rod so he is getting zapped now and then as punishment for his innumerable sins of the times????
July 22, 20222 yr 15 hours ago, VintageLife said: That’s what part of this plan covers. It talks about needing to get the parking lots filled in and shows higher density buildings. We don’t have tall builds yet, because the land isn't scarce enough yet. I think once things start rolling, those taller projects will come in. It needs to start happening now, though, to reach that kind of goal. And developers keep proposing short, relatively low density projects and they keep getting approved for the most part.
July 22, 20222 yr 12 minutes ago, jonoh81 said: It needs to start happening now, though, to reach that kind of goal. And developers keep proposing short, relatively low density projects and they keep getting approved for the most part. The recent projects have started gaining a little height. Once parking lots start filling up and once more businesses and people move downtown, the developments will continue getting taller.
July 22, 20222 yr That rendering of the Warehouse District they have in there.... If we are going to get to 40K residents we need infill like that. Had no idea the Warehouse District was like 70% parking lots as I never really go over there. Start turning more of these under used ugly surface parking lots into 7+ story buildings already!
July 22, 20222 yr Serious question, do we think there is still the same demand to live in a downtown area today as there was pre-pandemic. I've heard estimates that only about 55-60% of downtown workers have come back to the office, leaving about 40% who now work from home. Part of the former appeal of living in a downtown setting was the "live, work, play" lifestyle where you could roll out of bed and walk to work. Also, downtown Columbus has historically been a ghost town on Saturdays and Sundays - and post-pandemic it is now a ghost town Friday through Monday. Combined, I see those two factors as greatly diminishing the allure of living in a downtown setting.
July 22, 20222 yr 22 minutes ago, Mogilny89 said: Serious question, do we think there is still the same demand to live in a downtown area today as there was pre-pandemic. I've heard estimates that only about 55-60% of downtown workers have come back to the office, leaving about 40% who now work from home. Part of the former appeal of living in a downtown setting was the "live, work, play" lifestyle where you could roll out of bed and walk to work. Also, downtown Columbus has historically been a ghost town on Saturdays and Sundays - and post-pandemic it is now a ghost town Friday through Monday. Combined, I see those two factors as greatly diminishing the allure of living in a downtown setting. I saw that downtown rentals are at a 90% rate so there must still be a huge demand. My wife and I would love to move downtown for the close proximity to so many great things, but we struggling with finding something in the price range we feel comfortable with. The draw for us has nothing to do with the work aspect, but more to do with living in an area that feels like a city. Being around so much, not needing to drive every time we go somewhere, and just having that city feeling is what draws us there. With gay st and so many more developments coming, on the peninsula and in franklinton, I don't see a large downturn in people wanting to live downtown.
July 22, 20222 yr 41 minutes ago, Mogilny89 said: Serious question, do we think there is still the same demand to live in a downtown area today as there was pre-pandemic. I've heard estimates that only about 55-60% of downtown workers have come back to the office, leaving about 40% who now work from home. Part of the former appeal of living in a downtown setting was the "live, work, play" lifestyle where you could roll out of bed and walk to work. Also, downtown Columbus has historically been a ghost town on Saturdays and Sundays - and post-pandemic it is now a ghost town Friday through Monday. Combined, I see those two factors as greatly diminishing the allure of living in a downtown setting. I go downtown for lunch on weekdays sometimes and it doesn't feel like a ghost town to me, although it's not what I would call crowded either (if it was, I probably would not be driving down there for lunch). Downtown is usually pretty hopping on weekends when there are events as well. It's not like it's ever going to be Manhattan levels of crowded on the sidewalks in Columbus though.
July 22, 20222 yr 12 hours ago, amped91 said: https://downtowncolumbus.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/220719-Community-Workshop-3-Slide-Deck-LR-v4-1.pdf Here’s a link to the full presentation, if anyone wants to take a look through it. Regarding the population goal, I do think 40,000 will be difficult to hit, but I don’t think it’s completely impossible, either. I would have to double check to say for sure, but I believe Downtown’s population has been growing by about 1000/yr the past few years. It would need to increase that by 500-600 in order to hit the goal. Tough, but there’s a lot going on. Housing wise, just between the three office conversions that are underway or planned (PNC, Continental, OJFS), that’s several hundred new units. I would expect to see even more conversions over the next couple of decades. Conversions combined with the couple hundred acres of surface lots we have to build on, we could easily make room (1800 units are possible just for the Peninsula alone). Also by 2040, Intel’s buildout will be complete (assuming), bringing tens of thousands of jobs to the region. Some percentage of those people will want to live Downtown. NCH has major expansions in the works, and Downtown should be able to capture some of that employee base, with the proximity. Ultimately, though, it will all come down to how committed TPTB are to making Downtown a desirable place to be over the course of the next two decades, and making sure that everyone is able to afford to live there. Downtown population has been growing, but not as quickly as you suggest. Here is the breakdown of tracts and population that the traditional Downtown has had over time. The tracts have changed names and sizes over time, but they largely represent the same area, but it's not exact. There's about a 0.6 square mile difference between 1950 and now, for example. 1930 Population and Density 0001A: 3,131- 6262.0 0002A: 5794- 18106.3 0003A: 2,195- 6097.2 0004A: 6,292- 16133.3 0005A: 4,359- 7925.5 0001B: 7,028- 13780.4 0002B: 7,896- 19258.5 0001C: 3,834- 6970.9 0002C: 4,936- 19744.0 Total Pop: 45,465 Avg. Density: 11452.1 based on 3.97 square miles. 1940 Population and Density 30 (Was 0005A): 4,720- 8581.8 31 (Was 0003A): 2,568- 7133.3 32 (Was 0001A): 4,626- 8115.8 33 (Was part of 0002A- Ohio Pen Only): 3,649- 91225.0 34 (Was part of 0002A): 1,983- 7082.1 35 (Was 0004A): 6,453- 16546.2 39 (Was 0002B): 8,666- 21136.6 40 (Was 0001B): 6,811- 13354.9 41 (Was 0002C): 5,180- 16709.7 42 (Was 0001C): 4,069- 7398.1 Total Pop: 48,725 Change: +3,260 Avg. Density: 12273.3 based on 3.97 square miles. 1950 Population and Density- Population Peak 30: 4,535- 8245.5 31: 2,908- 8077.8 32: 4,813- 8843.9 33: 4,417- 110425.0 34: 1,945- 6946.4 35: 7,725- 19807.7 39: 10,379- 25314.6 40: 7,557- 14817.7 41: 5,535- 17854.8 42- 3,834- 6970.9 Total Pop: 53,648 Change: +4,923 Avg. Density: 13513.4 based on 3.97 square miles. 1960 Population and Density 30: 4,506- 8192.7 31: 1,730- 6178.6 32: 585- 991.5 33: 3,785- 94625.0 34: 975- 2437.5 35: 6,046- 17274.3 39: 8,140- 19853.7 40: 4,322- 8644.0 41: 4,463- 15389.7 42: 3,168- 5369.5 Total Pop: 37,730 Change: -15,918 Avg. Density: 9432.5 based on 4.0 square miles. By 1960, Urban Renewal and highway construction was really hitting Downtown hard. 1970 Population and Density 30: 1,008- 1832.7 31: 1,346- 4807.1 32: 2,155- 3780.7 33: 1,980- 49500.0 34: 562- 1405.0 35: 1,975- 5642.9 39: 2,636- 7322.2 40: 1,333- 2468.5 41: 3,603- 11622.6 42: 1,862- 3266.7 Total Pop: 18,460 Change: -19,270 Avg. Density: 4649.9 based on 3.97 square miles. 1980 Population and Density 30: 180- 327.3 31: 797- 2846.4 32: 1,961- 3323.7 33: 1,452- 36,300.0 34: 347- 867.5 35: 913- 2608.6 39: 1,679- 4663.9 40: 1,408- 2560.0 41: 3,062- 8505.6 42: 1,262- 3004.8 Total Pop: 13,061 Change: -5,399 Avg. Density: 3349.0 based on 3.90 square miles. 1990 Population and Density 30: 1,474 (31 and 35 added to 30)- 1249.2 32: 1,819- 3083.1 33: 0- 0.0 34: 159- 397.5 39: 1,212- 3366.7 40: 1,497- 2721.8 41: 2,631- 7308.3 42: 1,301- 3097.6 Total Pop: 10,093 Change: -2,968 Avg. Density: 2587.9 based on 3.90 square miles. 2000 Population and Density- Population Bottom 30: 2,179 (33 and 34 Added to 30)- 1345.1 32: 1,824- 2850.0 40: 2,195 (39 added to 40)- 2385.9 42: 1,432 (41 added to 42)- 2701.9 Total Pop: 7,630 Change: -2,463 Avg. Density: 2056.6 based on 3.71 square miles. 2010 Population and Density 30: 3,105- 1940.6 32: 2,147- 3407.9 40: 2,941- 3231.9 42: 1,370- 2537.0 Total Pop: 9,563 Change: +1,933 Avg. Density: 2584.6 based on 3.70 square miles. 2020 Population and Density 30: 4,189- 3059.9 32: 3,500- 5468.8 4001: 1,253 (40 split into 4001 and 4002)- 4176.7 4002: 4,245- 8179.2 42: 1,107- 2108.6 Total Pop: 14,294 Change: +4,731 Avg. Density: 4266.9 based on 3.35 square miles. Most of this size reduction was in Tract 30, which no longer includes some of the railroad track area on the northern side, so population itself was not really affected. So between 2000 and 2020, Downtown added 6,664 people, or 333 people per year on average. That number did increase from 193 per year during the 2000s to 473 in the 2010s, but it's nowhere near 1000 a year. The 14,294 figure is somewhat generous because it includes the Thurber Village and Michigan Avenue area north of 670, which wouldn't technically be Downtown, so you can probably knock off a least 1000 from that figure. Even if we took that whole number, Downtown was still almost 26,000 behind the 40,000 goal in 2020. It's obviously grown some since then, but probably not by that much given the pandemic and fewer construction projects the past few years. So maybe 15000 in 2022? Let's say current growth rates are a bit higher than they were in the past decade- say 600 per year. Over the next 18 years, that would add under 11,000, which doesn't get us to to even 30K. Even at 1000 per year, the population would reach around 33K. You'd have to see annual growth around 1,500 per year to reach 40,000 by 2040, more than 3x the rate Downtown was growing the past decade. I just don't see it happening with current construction and growth rates, with the types of projects Downtown is getting and the relatively small household sizes. Not trying to be negative, just putting the numbers out there. 40,000 is very ambitious and I would love to see it happen, but it's going to take a wholesale change in how Downtown is being developed to come close. That means every vacant and otherwise underutilized lot from here on out has to be maximized density. If everything gets filled with 3-6 story buildings, I can see population getting to 25K-30K tops assuming at least some families move in. To get families, you will need grocery options and transit and just a much more pedestrian friendly environment, etc. That's just my take and I'm sure people disagree, but I'm just basing it on the numbers and trends.
July 22, 20222 yr 2 hours ago, VintageLife said: The recent projects have started gaining a little height. Once parking lots start filling up and once more businesses and people move downtown, the developments will continue getting taller. It's not just height. Height can allow for greater density in smaller lot sizes, but there still has to be an increased number of units within the projects. The conversion of 150 E. Gay is a great project because the unit number is significant. We need more of that type of unit count in new projects. HighPoint was like 300 units, but I would argue it's bad density because it takes nearly 2 blocks of High Street to get there. We need 300 unit projects in half that space, minimum.
July 22, 20222 yr 6 minutes ago, jonoh81 said: Downtown population has been growing, but not as quickly as you suggest. Here is the breakdown of tracts and population that the traditional Downtown has had over time. The tracts have changed names and sizes over time, but they largely represent the same area, but it's not exact. There's about a 0.6 square mile difference between 1950 and now, for example. 1930 Population and Density 0001A: 3,131- 6262.0 0002A: 5794- 18106.3 0003A: 2,195- 6097.2 0004A: 6,292- 16133.3 0005A: 4,359- 7925.5 0001B: 7,028- 13780.4 0002B: 7,896- 19258.5 0001C: 3,834- 6970.9 0002C: 4,936- 19744.0 Total Pop: 45,465 Avg. Density: 11452.1 based on 3.97 square miles. 1940 Population and Density 30 (Was 0005A): 4,720- 8581.8 31 (Was 0003A): 2,568- 7133.3 32 (Was 0001A): 4,626- 8115.8 33 (Was part of 0002A- Ohio Pen Only): 3,649- 91225.0 34 (Was part of 0002A): 1,983- 7082.1 35 (Was 0004A): 6,453- 16546.2 39 (Was 0002B): 8,666- 21136.6 40 (Was 0001B): 6,811- 13354.9 41 (Was 0002C): 5,180- 16709.7 42 (Was 0001C): 4,069- 7398.1 Total Pop: 48,725 Change: +3,260 Avg. Density: 12273.3 based on 3.97 square miles. 1950 Population and Density- Population Peak 30: 4,535- 8245.5 31: 2,908- 8077.8 32: 4,813- 8843.9 33: 4,417- 110425.0 34: 1,945- 6946.4 35: 7,725- 19807.7 39: 10,379- 25314.6 40: 7,557- 14817.7 41: 5,535- 17854.8 42- 3,834- 6970.9 Total Pop: 53,648 Change: +4,923 Avg. Density: 13513.4 based on 3.97 square miles. 1960 Population and Density 30: 4,506- 8192.7 31: 1,730- 6178.6 32: 585- 991.5 33: 3,785- 94625.0 34: 975- 2437.5 35: 6,046- 17274.3 39: 8,140- 19853.7 40: 4,322- 8644.0 41: 4,463- 15389.7 42: 3,168- 5369.5 Total Pop: 37,730 Change: -15,918 Avg. Density: 9432.5 based on 4.0 square miles. By 1960, Urban Renewal and highway construction was really hitting Downtown hard. 1970 Population and Density 30: 1,008- 1832.7 31: 1,346- 4807.1 32: 2,155- 3780.7 33: 1,980- 49500.0 34: 562- 1405.0 35: 1,975- 5642.9 39: 2,636- 7322.2 40: 1,333- 2468.5 41: 3,603- 11622.6 42: 1,862- 3266.7 Total Pop: 18,460 Change: -19,270 Avg. Density: 4649.9 based on 3.97 square miles. 1980 Population and Density 30: 180- 327.3 31: 797- 2846.4 32: 1,961- 3323.7 33: 1,452- 36,300.0 34: 347- 867.5 35: 913- 2608.6 39: 1,679- 4663.9 40: 1,408- 2560.0 41: 3,062- 8505.6 42: 1,262- 3004.8 Total Pop: 13,061 Change: -5,399 Avg. Density: 3349.0 based on 3.90 square miles. 1990 Population and Density 30: 1,474 (31 and 35 added to 30)- 1249.2 32: 1,819- 3083.1 33: 0- 0.0 34: 159- 397.5 39: 1,212- 3366.7 40: 1,497- 2721.8 41: 2,631- 7308.3 42: 1,301- 3097.6 Total Pop: 10,093 Change: -2,968 Avg. Density: 2587.9 based on 3.90 square miles. 2000 Population and Density- Population Bottom 30: 2,179 (33 and 34 Added to 30)- 1345.1 32: 1,824- 2850.0 40: 2,195 (39 added to 40)- 2385.9 42: 1,432 (41 added to 42)- 2701.9 Total Pop: 7,630 Change: -2,463 Avg. Density: 2056.6 based on 3.71 square miles. 2010 Population and Density 30: 3,105- 1940.6 32: 2,147- 3407.9 40: 2,941- 3231.9 42: 1,370- 2537.0 Total Pop: 9,563 Change: +1,933 Avg. Density: 2584.6 based on 3.70 square miles. 2020 Population and Density 30: 4,189- 3059.9 32: 3,500- 5468.8 4001: 1,253 (40 split into 4001 and 4002)- 4176.7 4002: 4,245- 8179.2 42: 1,107- 2108.6 Total Pop: 14,294 Change: +4,731 Avg. Density: 4266.9 based on 3.35 square miles. Most of this size reduction was in Tract 30, which no longer includes some of the railroad track area on the northern side, so population itself was not really affected. So between 2000 and 2020, Downtown added 6,664 people, or 333 people per year on average. That number did increase from 193 per year during the 2000s to 473 in the 2010s, but it's nowhere near 1000 a year. The 14,294 figure is somewhat generous because it includes the Thurber Village and Michigan Avenue area north of 670, which wouldn't technically be Downtown, so you can probably knock off a least 1000 from that figure. Even if we took that whole number, Downtown was still almost 26,000 behind the 40,000 goal in 2020. It's obviously grown some since then, but probably not by that much given the pandemic and fewer construction projects the past few years. So maybe 15000 in 2022? Let's say current growth rates are a bit higher than they were in the past decade- say 600 per year. Over the next 18 years, that would add under 11,000, which doesn't get us to to even 30K. Even at 1000 per year, the population would reach around 33K. You'd have to see annual growth around 1,500 per year to reach 40,000 by 2040, more than 3x the rate Downtown was growing the past decade. I just don't see it happening with current construction and growth rates, with the types of projects Downtown is getting and the relatively small household sizes. Not trying to be negative, just putting the numbers out there. 40,000 is very ambitious and I would love to see it happen, but it's going to take a wholesale change in how Downtown is being developed to come close. That means every vacant and otherwise underutilized lot from here on out has to be maximized density. If everything gets filled with 3-6 story buildings, I can see population getting to 25K-30K tops assuming at least some families move in. To get families, you will need grocery options and transit and just a much more pedestrian friendly environment, etc. That's just my take and I'm sure people disagree, but I'm just basing it on the numbers and trends. Good lord that 1950 population density would be amazing. I think you have to also figure in that a lot of the downtown development has only been happening for about 5 or so years. It’s steadily grown every year and will continue to. Now 40,000 is a grand plan, but it could be possible and in the end if it’s only 35,000, that still wouldn’t be bad.
July 22, 20222 yr Just now, VintageLife said: Good lord that 1950 population density would be amazing. I think you have to also figure in that a lot of the downtown development has only been happening for about 5 or so years. It’s steadily grown every year and will continue to. Now 40,000 is a grand plan, but it could be possible and in the end if it’s only 35,000, that still wouldn’t be bad. True, I'm not discounting an acceleration of growth. It's more that I think there is a limit to how fast and how much it can grow if we're only going to be having low rise buildings taking up entire blocks with only 150-200 units.
July 22, 20222 yr 2 minutes ago, jonoh81 said: True, I'm not discounting an acceleration of growth. It's more that I think there is a limit to how fast and how much it can grow if we're only going to be having low rise buildings taking up entire blocks with only 150-200 units. I would 100% agree with that. That is why the city needs to stop dragging it’s damn feet on getting the zoning changed. It needs to be an east streamlined progress, some of these projects take years just to clear hurdles.
July 22, 20222 yr 2 minutes ago, VintageLife said: I would 100% agree with that. That is why the city needs to stop dragging it’s damn feet on getting the zoning changed. It needs to be an east streamlined progress, some of these projects take years just to clear hurdles. I'm not sure zoning changes would really affect Downtown too much. Height and density limitations are not as much of an issue already, and I am under the impression that there are no Downtown parking requirements, either. Maybe I'm incorrect about that, though.
July 22, 20222 yr 3 minutes ago, jonoh81 said: I'm not sure zoning changes would really affect Downtown too much. Height and density limitations are not as much of an issue already, and I am under the impression that there are no Downtown parking requirements, either. Maybe I'm incorrect about that, though. You are probably correct
July 22, 20222 yr 19 minutes ago, jonoh81 said: Downtown population has been growing, but not as quickly as you suggest. Here is the breakdown of tracts and population that the traditional Downtown has had over time. The tracts have changed names and sizes over time, but they largely represent the same area, but it's not exact. There's about a 0.6 square mile difference between 1950 and now, for example. 1930 Population and Density 0001A: 3,131- 6262.0 0002A: 5794- 18106.3 0003A: 2,195- 6097.2 0004A: 6,292- 16133.3 0005A: 4,359- 7925.5 0001B: 7,028- 13780.4 0002B: 7,896- 19258.5 0001C: 3,834- 6970.9 0002C: 4,936- 19744.0 Total Pop: 45,465 Avg. Density: 11452.1 based on 3.97 square miles. 1940 Population and Density 30 (Was 0005A): 4,720- 8581.8 31 (Was 0003A): 2,568- 7133.3 32 (Was 0001A): 4,626- 8115.8 33 (Was part of 0002A- Ohio Pen Only): 3,649- 91225.0 34 (Was part of 0002A): 1,983- 7082.1 35 (Was 0004A): 6,453- 16546.2 39 (Was 0002B): 8,666- 21136.6 40 (Was 0001B): 6,811- 13354.9 41 (Was 0002C): 5,180- 16709.7 42 (Was 0001C): 4,069- 7398.1 Total Pop: 48,725 Change: +3,260 Avg. Density: 12273.3 based on 3.97 square miles. 1950 Population and Density- Population Peak 30: 4,535- 8245.5 31: 2,908- 8077.8 32: 4,813- 8843.9 33: 4,417- 110425.0 34: 1,945- 6946.4 35: 7,725- 19807.7 39: 10,379- 25314.6 40: 7,557- 14817.7 41: 5,535- 17854.8 42- 3,834- 6970.9 Total Pop: 53,648 Change: +4,923 Avg. Density: 13513.4 based on 3.97 square miles. 1960 Population and Density 30: 4,506- 8192.7 31: 1,730- 6178.6 32: 585- 991.5 33: 3,785- 94625.0 34: 975- 2437.5 35: 6,046- 17274.3 39: 8,140- 19853.7 40: 4,322- 8644.0 41: 4,463- 15389.7 42: 3,168- 5369.5 Total Pop: 37,730 Change: -15,918 Avg. Density: 9432.5 based on 4.0 square miles. By 1960, Urban Renewal and highway construction was really hitting Downtown hard. 1970 Population and Density 30: 1,008- 1832.7 31: 1,346- 4807.1 32: 2,155- 3780.7 33: 1,980- 49500.0 34: 562- 1405.0 35: 1,975- 5642.9 39: 2,636- 7322.2 40: 1,333- 2468.5 41: 3,603- 11622.6 42: 1,862- 3266.7 Total Pop: 18,460 Change: -19,270 Avg. Density: 4649.9 based on 3.97 square miles. 1980 Population and Density 30: 180- 327.3 31: 797- 2846.4 32: 1,961- 3323.7 33: 1,452- 36,300.0 34: 347- 867.5 35: 913- 2608.6 39: 1,679- 4663.9 40: 1,408- 2560.0 41: 3,062- 8505.6 42: 1,262- 3004.8 Total Pop: 13,061 Change: -5,399 Avg. Density: 3349.0 based on 3.90 square miles. 1990 Population and Density 30: 1,474 (31 and 35 added to 30)- 1249.2 32: 1,819- 3083.1 33: 0- 0.0 34: 159- 397.5 39: 1,212- 3366.7 40: 1,497- 2721.8 41: 2,631- 7308.3 42: 1,301- 3097.6 Total Pop: 10,093 Change: -2,968 Avg. Density: 2587.9 based on 3.90 square miles. 2000 Population and Density- Population Bottom 30: 2,179 (33 and 34 Added to 30)- 1345.1 32: 1,824- 2850.0 40: 2,195 (39 added to 40)- 2385.9 42: 1,432 (41 added to 42)- 2701.9 Total Pop: 7,630 Change: -2,463 Avg. Density: 2056.6 based on 3.71 square miles. 2010 Population and Density 30: 3,105- 1940.6 32: 2,147- 3407.9 40: 2,941- 3231.9 42: 1,370- 2537.0 Total Pop: 9,563 Change: +1,933 Avg. Density: 2584.6 based on 3.70 square miles. 2020 Population and Density 30: 4,189- 3059.9 32: 3,500- 5468.8 4001: 1,253 (40 split into 4001 and 4002)- 4176.7 4002: 4,245- 8179.2 42: 1,107- 2108.6 Total Pop: 14,294 Change: +4,731 Avg. Density: 4266.9 based on 3.35 square miles. Most of this size reduction was in Tract 30, which no longer includes some of the railroad track area on the northern side, so population itself was not really affected. So between 2000 and 2020, Downtown added 6,664 people, or 333 people per year on average. That number did increase from 193 per year during the 2000s to 473 in the 2010s, but it's nowhere near 1000 a year. The 14,294 figure is somewhat generous because it includes the Thurber Village and Michigan Avenue area north of 670, which wouldn't technically be Downtown, so you can probably knock off a least 1000 from that figure. Even if we took that whole number, Downtown was still almost 26,000 behind the 40,000 goal in 2020. It's obviously grown some since then, but probably not by that much given the pandemic and fewer construction projects the past few years. So maybe 15000 in 2022? Let's say current growth rates are a bit higher than they were in the past decade- say 600 per year. Over the next 18 years, that would add under 11,000, which doesn't get us to to even 30K. Even at 1000 per year, the population would reach around 33K. You'd have to see annual growth around 1,500 per year to reach 40,000 by 2040, more than 3x the rate Downtown was growing the past decade. I just don't see it happening with current construction and growth rates, with the types of projects Downtown is getting and the relatively small household sizes. Not trying to be negative, just putting the numbers out there. 40,000 is very ambitious and I would love to see it happen, but it's going to take a wholesale change in how Downtown is being developed to come close. That means every vacant and otherwise underutilized lot from here on out has to be maximized density. If everything gets filled with 3-6 story buildings, I can see population getting to 25K-30K tops assuming at least some families move in. To get families, you will need grocery options and transit and just a much more pedestrian friendly environment, etc. That's just my take and I'm sure people disagree, but I'm just basing it on the numbers and trends. I went back to try to figure out where I got the ~1000 number from. I guess I was looking at the increase from 10,342 in 2020 to 11,200 in 2021. This is from the information provided by the CDDC. I don’t know if they’re basing it off of Census data, or if it’s based off their own estimations. Either way, yes, Downtown population growth would need to average ~1500/yr from now until 2040 to hit that goal. Potentially doable, but it’s going to take a lot of work.
July 22, 20222 yr 2 minutes ago, Pablo said: There are no zoning related Downtown parking requirements. I did know that, I feel like I read that the way zoning is now, it is very hard for smaller companies to get things approved because of cost. I don’t know if that dealt with downtown though.
July 22, 20222 yr 3 minutes ago, amped91 said: I went back to try to figure out where I got the ~1000 number from. I guess I was looking at the increase from 10,342 in 2020 to 11,200 in 2021. This is from the information provided by the CDDC. I don’t know if they’re basing it off of Census data, or if it’s based off their own estimations. Either way, yes, Downtown population growth would need to average ~1500/yr from now until 2040 to hit that goal. Potentially doable, but it’s going to take a lot of work. To be fair, there could've been a year or two during that timeframe that saw closer to 1000, it's just not been the average.
July 22, 20222 yr So we're sitting here trying to cook up new zoning requirements when we could just apply the Downtown zoning to more neighborhoods.
July 22, 20222 yr 28 minutes ago, GCrites80s said: So we're sitting here trying to cook up new zoning requirements when we could just apply the Downtown zoning to more neighborhoods. Yes, but why do that when the city can pay consultants a few million to produce results that may or may not actually be used. It's what they do on transit.
July 22, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, jonoh81 said: It's what they do on transit. And downtown strategic plans
July 23, 20222 yr CBF’s write up on the third meeting, including quotes from CDDC prez: Downtown Columbus could see more retail, residents in the next decade “The city is already engaged in turning some one-way streets into two-way streets, Taylor said, to slow down traffic. For instance, Front Street through much of downtown will become two-way. "One-way streets are good at getting people in and out quickly," Taylor said. "But we want to bring people to downtown, not just through downtown." Taylor said CDDC also plans to support efforts such as LinkUS, which would transform the region’s transit and mobility systems as well as encourage development along key corridors, and efforts to bring AmTrak downtown. Increasing transit also means making downtown more walkable. In the 2010 strategic plan, there was a proposal for a pedestrian bridge from the Scioto Peninsula to the area where Astor Park is now located. It seemed like a bridge to nowhere at the time, but Taylor said it's now more viable.” https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2022/07/23/downtown-columbus-retail-residents-transit-plan.html
July 23, 20222 yr On 7/21/2022 at 3:18 PM, amped91 said: God, how I would love for Broad to get some sort of improvement/diet like this: Downtown Plan: New Visuals Show Redesigned Streets, High-Density Neighborhoods “ A question about the bus lanes.. How will the passengers board the bus? The doors are to the outside in this drawing so will they have to venture out into the traffic lanes to board?
July 23, 20222 yr 6 minutes ago, John7165 said: A question about the bus lanes.. How will the passengers board the bus? The doors are to the outside in this drawing so will they have to venture out into the traffic lanes to board? There is a bus stop in the middle and I would assume the rendering just didn’t have the doors on the right side, or are not detailed enough to see it.
July 23, 20222 yr 1 hour ago, VintageLife said: There is a bus stop in the middle and I would assume the rendering just didn’t have the doors on the right side, or are not detailed enough to see it. They make buses with doors on either side, or only on the side necessary for boarding.
July 24, 20222 yr 48 minutes ago, jonoh81 said: They make buses with doors on either side, or only on the side necessary for boarding. I need to get out more. Most city buses I've seen have their door opposite the bus driver.
July 24, 20222 yr Look up pictures of Indianapolis' new BRT line if you aren't familiar with it - that's likely the same style and type of service any line on Broad St will be. The buses are larger, articulated, and have doors to board on both sides Edited July 24, 20222 yr by NW24HX
July 26, 20222 yr Normandy Avenue Residences (7-23-22) Last 2 of the 5 North 5th infill between Gay and Long Work on the small 4-unit townhouse development at the NE corner of Long and North 6th Standard Building Renovation
July 26, 20222 yr 9 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said: Work on the small 4-unit townhouse development at the NE corner of Long and North 6th Finally! That site has been fenced off for such a long time. Glad to see some more parking lots getting filled in. I saw that the single-story commercial building just east at the corner of Long and Grant will be renovated and will house a new dispensary.
July 26, 20222 yr Is it weird to be attracted to a garage access alley? Because that's one fine looking alleyway!
July 26, 20222 yr 3 hours ago, amped91 said: Finally! That site has been fenced off for such a long time. Glad to see some more parking lots getting filled in. I saw that the single-story commercial building just east at the corner of Long and Grant will be renovated and will house a new dispensary. That link didn’t work for me, and I’ve never seen anything mentioned for these, do you have another link?
July 26, 20222 yr 26 minutes ago, VintageLife said: That link didn’t work for me, and I’ve never seen anything mentioned for these, do you have another link? That’s the link for the cannabis dispensary. Or did you mean the link @NorthShore647posted?
July 26, 20222 yr 1 minute ago, amped91 said: That’s the link for the cannabis dispensary. Or did you mean the link @NorthShore647posted? Sorry, I meant a link for the townhouses
July 26, 20222 yr 3 minutes ago, VintageLife said: Sorry, I meant a link for the townhouses I’d be interested in seeing it myself.
July 26, 20222 yr 24 minutes ago, amped91 said: 27 minutes ago, VintageLife said: Sorry, I meant a link for the townhouses I’d be interested in seeing it myself. From the September 2021 Downtown Commission Meeting - 314 East Long Street
July 26, 20222 yr 12 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said: From the September 2021 Downtown Commission Meeting - 314 East Long Street Ah yeah, I remember these, guess I didn’t realize the location. Thank you
July 27, 20222 yr 21 hours ago, amped91 said: Finally! That site has been fenced off for such a long time. Glad to see some more parking lots getting filled in. I saw that the single-story commercial building just east at the corner of Long and Grant will be renovated and will house a new dispensary. Likewise. This area of East Long St. stretching north to the Warehouse District is aching for more parking lot infill. A lot of progress has been made already, but I'm really digging these smaller developments to add more variety to the streetscape along with the block-length developments like Industry. 18 hours ago, TIm said: Is it weird to be attracted to a garage access alley? Because that's one fine looking alleyway! Not at all! Neighborhood Launch has done wonders for the area, despite initial concerns about the lack of height. The development is architecturally pleasing with a lot of residential design features not seen in the urban core. No doubt this has set the stage for other developments we've seen along East Long St.
July 27, 20222 yr I spent quite a bit of time yesterday trying to research. It’s been so long since Neighborhood Launch was first announced, though, that many of the original articles about it are gone/moved. Will the four-unit condo build pretty much be the last piece of NL, or are there still any more lots left to develop?
July 27, 20222 yr 11 minutes ago, amped91 said: I spent quite a bit of time yesterday trying to research. It’s been so long since Neighborhood Launch was first announced, though, that many of the original articles about it are gone/moved. Will the four-unit condo build pretty much be the last piece of NL, or are there still any more lots left to develop? I have no idea of the full size, but found this on a website about the area. The Location Currently, Neighborhood Launch is projected to grow into a nine block neighborhood and extend near the Columbus College of Art & Design. I don’t think it has taken up 9 blocks yet has it? Edited July 27, 20222 yr by VintageLife
July 27, 20222 yr 44 minutes ago, CMHOhio said: Not at all! Neighborhood Launch has done wonders for the area, despite initial concerns about the lack of height. The development is architecturally pleasing with a lot of residential design features not seen in the urban core. No doubt this has set the stage for other developments we've seen along East Long St. Yea, this is a perfect example of a quality urban development greatly improving downtown without being a tower. Yes, we all want more towers, but not every new development has to be a 300+ foot tower in order to greatly improve our downtown. Now, if we could just manage to do something the surface lots along the south side of Gay Street (outlined in red) and the Midland Garage (outlined in yellow), the area would really go to the next level.
July 27, 20222 yr 6 minutes ago, cbussoccer said: Yea, this is a perfect example of a quality urban development greatly improving downtown without being a tower. Yes, we all want more towers, but not every new development has to be a 300+ foot tower in order to greatly improve our downtown. Now, if we could just manage to do something the surface lots along the south side of Gay Street (outlined in red) and the Midland Garage (outlined in yellow), the area would really go to the next level. I was just telling my wife today, that those spots would work perfect for more townhomes like the ones across the street, but fronting a couple of taller builds.
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