April 1, 20241 yr 19 minutes ago, GCrites said: 10 years is a long time for anything to not get remodeled in Columbus! I've stayed in plenty of mid-tier hotels that haven't been updated since the 90s! Most Embassy Suites for example. 10 years ago ain't too bad.
April 1, 20241 yr Most major hotels (Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, etc.) are required to undergo a Property Improvement Plan (updating finishes, furniture, etc.) every six to ten years
April 1, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, PizzaScissors said: Most major hotels (Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, etc.) are required to undergo a Property Improvement Plan (updating finishes, furniture, etc.) every six to ten years Oh there is absolutely no way anyone is enforcing this because I've stayed in PLENTY of hotels that haven't been updated in much much much longer than that. And those are brand standard requirements to keep franchise owners from cutting corners, not any kind of government mandated program. Just like how nobody is seriously enforcing the hotel inspection standards, they often just don't happen or nobody follows up on the identified issues during inspections. As long as corporate gets their cut and the license is paid for every year.... game on. Edited April 1, 20241 yr by TIm
April 1, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, columbus17 said: I mean the facade. What do you mean? The building is of it's time, a fine example of 1980's architecture. Buildings that have facades updated to suite the current fashion generally look horrible a few years later. Who knows what future tastes will be? I think cities should have various styles represented from all eras of that city. Sure, some will be torn down if they outlive their usefulness. This building at 4th and long was updated sometime in the 60s or 70s to make it look modern. The owner at the time evidentially felt the building looked too old-fashioned. We all can agree that this was a mistake and that the original was better.
April 1, 20241 yr 4 minutes ago, Pablo said: What do you mean? The building is of it's time, a fine example of 1980's architecture. Buildings that have facades updated to suite the current fashion generally look horrible a few years later. Who knows what future tastes will be? I think cities should have various styles represented from all eras of that city. Sure, some will be torn down if they outlive their usefulness. This building at 4th and long was updated sometime in the 60s or 70s to make it look modern. The owner at the time evidentially felt the building looked too old-fashioned. We all can agree that this was a mistake and that the original was better. I would be okay with them tearing it down and replacing it with what was there before.
April 1, 20241 yr 10 minutes ago, Pablo said: Yeah, that won't happen. It doesn't make sense financially. I know, I was mostly kidding, it’s just a shame the building that was there originally was lost.
April 4, 20241 yr Work continues on the Front/Marconi two way conversion Few looks at some of the early work on Marconi
April 16, 20241 yr Was out and about this past weekend and heard from a very credible source that VORYS is looking into building a totally brand-new headquarters/office tower on the corner of Gay & 3rd, the current surface parking lot they already own. Could be relatively significant too for approximately 200+ lawyers in the Columbus office alone plus supporting staff. Their offices next door then would be converted to residential/retail. Not sure of timeline, and I'm sure this is still very preliminary but curious to see if we hear any announcements in the somewhat near future.
April 16, 20241 yr 12 minutes ago, Gnoraa said: Was out and about this past weekend and heard from a very credible source that VORYS is looking into building a totally brand-new headquarters/office tower on the corner of Gay & 3rd, the current surface parking lot they already own. Could be relatively significant too for approximately 200+ lawyers in the Columbus office alone plus supporting staff. Their offices next door then would be converted to residential/retail. Not sure of timeline, and I'm sure this is still very preliminary but curious to see if we hear any announcements in the somewhat near future. This is the type of juicy news I’m here for, well done. I give this a 4/5 💦 on my juice meter. Lol
April 16, 20241 yr 7 minutes ago, 614love said: This is the type of juicy news I’m here for, well done. I give this a 4/5 💦 on my juice meter. Lol LOL I appreciate that, but again, for all I know this could be something that is several years away yet. Zero intel on timeline. But I believe Edwards is in the ears of a lot of property owners downtown these days. He/they have a clear desire, motivation and vision for what they want downtown to become over the next 10-20 years.
April 16, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Gnoraa said: Was out and about this past weekend and heard from a very credible source that VORYS is looking into building a totally brand-new headquarters/office tower on the corner of Gay & 3rd, the current surface parking lot they already own. Could be relatively significant too for approximately 200+ lawyers in the Columbus office alone plus supporting staff. Their offices next door then would be converted to residential/retail. Not sure of timeline, and I'm sure this is still very preliminary but curious to see if we hear any announcements in the somewhat near future. Would this be the site of the little park that was in the renderings for the bike trail downtown, or where the 5 story was in those renderings? I would rather the park space be there and they build somewhere else, but it would look great to have a higher building there.
April 16, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, Gnoraa said: Was out and about this past weekend and heard from a very credible source that VORYS is looking into building a totally brand-new headquarters/office tower on the corner of Gay & 3rd, the current surface parking lot they already own. Could be relatively significant too for approximately 200+ lawyers in the Columbus office alone plus supporting staff. Their offices next door then would be converted to residential/retail. Not sure of timeline, and I'm sure this is still very preliminary but curious to see if we hear any announcements in the somewhat near future. I find that hard to believe given Edwards was trying to purchase that site.
April 17, 20241 yr 19 minutes ago, columbus17 said: I find that hard to believe given Edwards was trying to purchase that site. Wouldn't that give Edwards a leg up with a signed tenant for 200+ lawyers of there is some greater deal that serves multiple parties? I don't think the scoop and the former Edwards scoop have to be mutually exclusive. Edited April 17, 20241 yr by DTCL11
April 17, 20241 yr Well this is discouraging if not surprising... the building had seemed to continue to do well even post-COVID and with virtually no parking. Sounds like the change in ownership was the biggest factor which is a shame Tenants flee Key Bank tower Downtown as problems mount The Key Bank building in downtown Columbus is losing tenants, including Key Bank and another anchor, after problems with the new owner that include threats of electricity being cut off. According to tenants, problems emerged after Baruch Broad Street, an arm of the New York firm Zamir Equities, bought the 21-story building from the Schottenstein Property Group in Columbus for $12 million in January 2022. Tenants say heating and cooling have been inconsistent, the building has been plagued with water leaks and janitorial services have been spotty. https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/real-estate/2024/04/17/key-bank-tower-downtown-losing-tenants-including-ohio-auditor-bank/73329084007/ I did get a laugh from this line though, Management has become so erratic that the company providing plant services to the building has repossessed the plants.
April 17, 20241 yr 11 hours ago, DTCL11 said: Wouldn't that give Edwards a leg up with a signed tenant for 200+ lawyers of there is some greater deal that serves multiple parties? I don't think the scoop and the former Edwards scoop have to be mutually exclusive. Yea, I thought the same thing. It could be that Vorys was looking for new office space and Edwards said "hey we are looking to build something on this lot and if you sign on we can make it happen".
April 17, 20241 yr 18 minutes ago, NW24HX said: Well this is discouraging if not surprising... the building had seemed to continue to do well even post-COVID and with virtually no parking. Sounds like the change in ownership was the biggest factor which is a shame Tenants flee Key Bank tower Downtown as problems mount The Key Bank building in downtown Columbus is losing tenants, including Key Bank and another anchor, after problems with the new owner that include threats of electricity being cut off. According to tenants, problems emerged after Baruch Broad Street, an arm of the New York firm Zamir Equities, bought the 21-story building from the Schottenstein Property Group in Columbus for $12 million in January 2022. Tenants say heating and cooling have been inconsistent, the building has been plagued with water leaks and janitorial services have been spotty. https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/real-estate/2024/04/17/key-bank-tower-downtown-losing-tenants-including-ohio-auditor-bank/73329084007/ I did get a laugh from this line though, Management has become so erratic that the company providing plant services to the building has repossessed the plants. That’s a shame, seems pretty dumb to drive out all your renters after buying a property. Hopefully things get figured out and it doesn’t just sit empty.
April 17, 20241 yr 9 minutes ago, VintageLife said: That’s a shame, seems pretty dumb to drive out all your renters after buying a property. Hopefully things get figured out and it doesn’t just sit empty. Columbus needs to seriously invest in public transportation to support these office buildings. I have been a part of conversations where business are moving from Downtown to Easton or any of the suburb office parks due to lack of parking and/or high costs of parking downtown. I have several co-workers including myself, that live either downtown or in a surrounding neighborhood (Victorian Village, OTE, German Village, etc...) that are commuting to the suburbs and the issue is 100% parking. This isn't an issue with just Columbus, other cities such as Louisville is losing thousands of tenants downtown to suburban office space. Columbus leadership needs to understand another "transit study" isn't going to cut it. We need alternative transportation and we need it now. I try and take scooters, bicycles, and walking downtown as riding a bus in inconvenient if it's not 9-5 on a week day. This is already a deterrent for my own parents who won't come downtown unless they know exactly where they're going to park, and how much it'll cost them. Need reliable rail and bus transit downtown 24/7.
April 17, 20241 yr 22 minutes ago, KyleofColumbus said: Columbus needs to seriously invest in public transportation to support these office buildings. I have been a part of conversations where business are moving from Downtown to Easton or any of the suburb office parks due to lack of parking and/or high costs of parking downtown. I have several co-workers including myself, that live either downtown or in a surrounding neighborhood (Victorian Village, OTE, German Village, etc...) that are commuting to the suburbs and the issue is 100% parking. This isn't an issue with just Columbus, other cities such as Louisville is losing thousands of tenants downtown to suburban office space. Columbus leadership needs to understand another "transit study" isn't going to cut it. We need alternative transportation and we need it now. I try and take scooters, bicycles, and walking downtown as riding a bus in inconvenient if it's not 9-5 on a week day. This is already a deterrent for my own parents who won't come downtown unless they know exactly where they're going to park, and how much it'll cost them. Need reliable rail and bus transit downtown 24/7. Vote YES on the COTA levy this November! If passed it will, among many other things, add 24/7 service to select routes.
April 17, 20241 yr Those conversations to move to suburbs are to accomodate people who live in the suburbs. Those same people will never take public transit. Even the most updated system will not deter many of those conversations because they aren't thinking of the folks who live in the core neighborhoods. They're thinking of the ones who live in the winding mazes of suburban subdivisions that transit will never effectively help, nor would the residents ever want to take them. Instead we invest billions in roads to accomodate them. Billions in public transit will not appease them. At best we get rail hubs in the suburban centers but that won't necessarily mean more development downtown. It would likely mean a spike in office development around those rail hubs like many large cities. So your wish may still very well have you commuting to the suburbs to accomodate the folks who don't want to drive downtown. Which shouldn't be read a reason not to build such systems. Do it now. Delaware to Columbus should have been done 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean it would have jump started growth downtown exclusively. We would have seen office growth spike wherever the Delaware line stopped too. Also, in flexible work models, those same people don't want to be paying for monthly parking passes when using them a handful of times a month. Parking is a abundant and cheap. We leveled entire blocks of this city to accomodate parking for the office tenants. Their concerns are hollow. Transit is a must, but its not going to solve our current exodus. Those same C Suite folks will move offices to the burbs all day with a good transit system or not. I'm kind of ok with some of the exodus. That has allowed alot of residential conversion and perhaps the Key Bank Tower will be next on that list if the owners decide to sell cheap. That then forces demand for new commercial space that tenants can move in to and new buildings. What's going to be more impactful to downtown is a drastic increase in residential and retail and new Class A office space where people want to live and play. We will never appease or be able to accomodate those who make decisions about office locations catering to those who live outside 270. Again, 10000000% transit and I am VERY harsh on COTA, but it's not the main solution to this problem. Edited April 17, 20241 yr by DTCL11
April 17, 20241 yr 1 minute ago, DTCL11 said: Those conversations to move to suburbs are to accomodate people who live in the suburbs. Those same people will never take public transit. Even the most updated system will not deter many of those conversations because they aren't thinking of the folks who live in the core neighborhoods. They're thinking of the ones who live in the winding mazes of suburban subdivisions that transit will never effectively help, nor would the residents ever want to take them. Instead we invest billions in roads to accomodate them. Billions in public transit will not appease them. At best we get rail hubs in the suburban centers but that won't necessarily mean more development downtown. It would likely mean a spike in office development around those rail hubs like many large cities. So your wish may still very well have you commuting to the suburbs to accomodate the folks who don't want to drive downtown. Which shouldn't be read a reason not to build such systems. Do it now. Delaware to Columbus should have been done 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean it would have jump started growth downtown exclusively. We would have seen office growth spike wherever the Delaware line stopped too. Also, in flexible work models, those same people don't want to be paying for monthly parking passes when using them a handful of times a month. Parking is a abundant and cheap. We leveled entire blocks of this city to accomodate parking for the office tenants. Their concerns are hollow. Transit is a must, but its not going to solve our current exodus. Those same C Suite folks will move offices to the burbs all day with a good transit system or not. I'm kind of ok with some of the exodus. That has allowed alot of residential conversion and perhaps the Key Bank Tower will be next on that list if the owners decide to sell cheap. That then forces demand for new commercial space that tenants can move in to and new buildings. What's going to be more impactful to downtown is a drastic increase in residential and retail and new Class A office space where people want to live and play. We will never appease or be able to accomodate those who make decisions about office locations catering to those who live outside 270. Downtown is already quiet from 8pm - 5am most days (Besides a few bars and if there's a game in the Arena District). The ones who commute from suburbs to downtown of course won't use public transportation, but we cannot expect to have 25,000 people live downtown and accommodate 25,000 cars on top of the ones who commute downtown. Many of the main streets downtown (Besides High, Broad and Fourth St) have no bus service or very limited service that comes every 30 minutes. It's great that office to condo/apartment conversion is happening, but we shouldn't entice business to move to the suburbs because of parking. If we can find a happy medium to accommodate those who travel from the suburbs to downtown via Car that can happen, but at the same time provide alternative measures for those of us that live within a mile of downtown but are forced to drive, walk, or ride a bike due to lack of reliable public transportation. Is it that unreasonable to grab a coffee in German Village, take a bus/train to Short North to shop, then take another bus/train to COSI or Franklinton and then to Nationwide Arena for a game? Folks from the suburbs can then easily park in one place and take public transportation to all the great areas around central Columbus and the ones that live downtown already wouldn't have to be so dependent on a personal vehicle to get around.
April 17, 20241 yr 12 minutes ago, KyleofColumbus said: Downtown is already quiet from 8pm - 5am most days (Besides a few bars and if there's a game in the Arena District). The ones who commute from suburbs to downtown of course won't use public transportation, but we cannot expect to have 25,000 people live downtown and accommodate 25,000 cars on top of the ones who commute downtown. Many of the main streets downtown (Besides High, Broad and Fourth St) have no bus service or very limited service that comes every 30 minutes. It's great that office to condo/apartment conversion is happening, but we shouldn't entice business to move to the suburbs because of parking. If we can find a happy medium to accommodate those who travel from the suburbs to downtown via Car that can happen, but at the same time provide alternative measures for those of us that live within a mile of downtown but are forced to drive, walk, or ride a bike due to lack of reliable public transportation. Is it that unreasonable to grab a coffee in German Village, take a bus/train to Short North to shop, then take another bus/train to COSI or Franklinton and then to Nationwide Arena for a game? Folks from the suburbs can then easily park in one place and take public transportation to all the great areas around central Columbus and the ones that live downtown already wouldn't have to be so dependent on a personal vehicle to get around. Your other comment about needing better public transit isn’t really a factor in these businesses leaving though. It’s the building owner being trash and not paying for utilities and upkeep properly. Yes having better transit will help, but isn’t the reason here. saying that downtown is dead from 8 pm to 5 am, outside of games, isn't fully true either. It’s pretty busy often times late at night, just not right in the central business area. The suburbs are even more dead at those time frames
April 17, 20241 yr 24 minutes ago, VintageLife said: Your other comment about needing better public transit isn’t really a factor in these businesses leaving though. It’s the building owner being trash and not paying for utilities and upkeep properly. Yes having better transit will help, but isn’t the reason here. saying that downtown is dead from 8 pm to 5 am, outside of games, isn't fully true either. It’s pretty busy often times late at night, just not right in the central business area. The suburbs are even more dead at those time frames Right. Now that the weather is nicer, the riverfront is pretty busy late into the evening. And lots of activity in several different hubs, like the Pins/Jackie Os/Slammers corner.
April 17, 20241 yr Downtown seems to be in kind of an awkward transition period, made more awkward by Covid and the impact it had on the traditional work model. Yes, public transportation needs to be improved (the wheels are already turning on that), but more importantly is the residential population growth occurring. This growth will result in a far more pleasant downtown district than what we had when the office space utilization was at its peak and residential population was at its lowest. High and Broad used to be packed with pedestrians during the week, especially during the lunch hour. That was certainly great, but everyone cleared out after 5pm and it was a total ghost town until 8am the next morning. If the residential growth can continue, coupled with more flexible WFH/hybrid setups, we'll see more vibrant streets 24/7 rather than just during business hours. This will also create a more desirable location for offices which result in more office space being added back.
April 17, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, DTCL11 said: Those conversations to move to suburbs are to accomodate people who live in the suburbs. Those same people will never take public transit. Even the most updated system will not deter many of those conversations because they aren't thinking of the folks who live in the core neighborhoods. They're thinking of the ones who live in the winding mazes of suburban subdivisions that transit will never effectively help, nor would the residents ever want to take them. Instead we invest billions in roads to accomodate them. Billions in public transit will not appease them. At best we get rail hubs in the suburban centers but that won't necessarily mean more development downtown. It would likely mean a spike in office development around those rail hubs like many large cities. So your wish may still very well have you commuting to the suburbs to accomodate the folks who don't want to drive downtown. Which shouldn't be read a reason not to build such systems. Do it now. Delaware to Columbus should have been done 10 years ago, but that doesn't mean it would have jump started growth downtown exclusively. We would have seen office growth spike wherever the Delaware line stopped too. Also, in flexible work models, those same people don't want to be paying for monthly parking passes when using them a handful of times a month. Parking is a abundant and cheap. We leveled entire blocks of this city to accomodate parking for the office tenants. Their concerns are hollow. Transit is a must, but its not going to solve our current exodus. Those same C Suite folks will move offices to the burbs all day with a good transit system or not. I'm kind of ok with some of the exodus. That has allowed alot of residential conversion and perhaps the Key Bank Tower will be next on that list if the owners decide to sell cheap. That then forces demand for new commercial space that tenants can move in to and new buildings. What's going to be more impactful to downtown is a drastic increase in residential and retail and new Class A office space where people want to live and play. We will never appease or be able to accomodate those who make decisions about office locations catering to those who live outside 270. Again, 10000000% transit and I am VERY harsh on COTA, but it's not the main solution to this problem. To say that people would "never" take public transit from these locations is a massive over exaggeration. I use to commute through Upper Arlington everyday for over a year and there were always people dressed to work in an office waiting at the bus stops. Albeit it was not a lot of people, but there were people walking from their single family home neighborhood to the end of the neighborhood to wait at a bus stop and take a bus into downtown for work. I imagine a lot more people would consider this option if 99% of our bus stops were more than a pole sticking out of the ground. Hard to commit to taking a bus to work or riding a bike to work everyday when we live in one of the rainiest cities in the entire country and there is nowhere to get any shelter while waiting for the bus. The reason offices are moving to suburbs is not because they love suburbs, it's because that's where their employees live, there isn't reliable public transit from these areas to downtown and due to the lack of public transit everyone has to drive so now getting access to cheap and accessible parking becomes an issue. Offices would stay downtown if their employees were not constantly complaining about how difficult and expensive it is to commute in and out everyday.
April 17, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, TIm said: To say that people would "never" take public transit from these locations is a massive over exaggeration. I use to commute through Upper Arlington everyday for over a year and there were always people dressed to work in an office waiting at the bus stops. Albeit it was not a lot of people, but there were people walking from their single family home neighborhood to the end of the neighborhood to wait at a bus stop and take a bus into downtown for work. Taking the bus from UA is a hell of a lot different than taking the bus from a suburban neighborhood in Grove City or New Albany or any other suburb outside of 270. It's fairly easy to walk to a bus stop for a high frequency route in UA. Outside of 270, this simply isn't the case. Generally you have to drive to a park and ride location. But you might be right. If the buses actually went into the suburban neighborhoods, you might actually see some people taking advantage of the option.
April 17, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, TIm said: To say that people would "never" take public transit from these locations is a massive over exaggeration. I use to commute through Upper Arlington everyday for over a year and there were always people dressed to work in an office waiting at the bus stops. Albeit it was not a lot of people, but there were people walking from their single family home neighborhood to the end of the neighborhood to wait at a bus stop and take a bus into downtown for work. I imagine a lot more people would consider this option if 99% of our bus stops were more than a pole sticking out of the ground. Hard to commit to taking a bus to work or riding a bike to work everyday when we live in one of the rainiest cities in the entire country and there is nowhere to get any shelter while waiting for the bus. The reason offices are moving to suburbs is not because they love suburbs, it's because that's where their employees live, there isn't reliable public transit from these areas to downtown and due to the lack of public transit everyone has to drive so now getting access to cheap and accessible parking becomes an issue. Offices would stay downtown if their employees were not constantly complaining about how difficult and expensive it is to commute in and out everyday. Upper Arlington is, for all intents and purposes, a bubble of Columbus. It's no different than my experience on the 4 from Old North/Clintonville. My point about outside 270 remains. It's just a different jurisdiction. Circulators are our best bet for the causal folks. Frequency, and dedicated lanes is the name of the game for the rest of us. While looking to expand some service and route for alternative cross town access but even the biggest, most comprehensive transit systems have those shortcomings. Try to get from most of Queens to Brooklyn, or Lakeview to Ligan Square in a timely or efficient fashion. But there's also a mindset that public transit should get us from all point As to All point Bs with little effort or time thats an unachievable goal. The 1 line gets you to all those places, but you might have to walk a couple blocks after you get off. If you solve the frequency issue, is there still a complaint that it's not easy to go for coffee at Staufs, head to Hubbard for Dinner, and then over to Huntington for a game? Something we also lose perspective of is how much more people walk in big cities. It's nothing for those without mobility issues to walk from 250s High to Staufs. Many don't even think about it. But here we do. Because it's easy to drive or otherwise. I will still assert that the move from Downtown to Northern Suburbs isn't going to be alleviated by trying to get New Albany, Pataskala etc subdivisions to hop on a transit line to downtown. In fact, it may expedite office expansion in those areas because they know that their people want to drive and have free parking and transit works 2 ways. Transit people are gojng to prefer tranit. Drivers are going to prefer to drive. So a company would say, well, my city folk can just as easily transit out and be happy and my suburban folks will also be happy not having to drive all the way in to town. See any number of cities where office hubs spring up around transit hubs outside the outer belt. Charlotte for example. Transit isn't what has been driving uptown growth. It's diversity in residential, retail, sports, parks, etc. They've added rail and it hasn't necessarily driven new office growth downtown. It has helped explode residential but they're experiencing the same decline in office use and reduction in new office construction that the rest of us are. DC core is being wiped out while offices are growing in Virginia and Maryland along those Metro hubs. My point shouldn't be misconstrued as transit resistance. I dream of a comprehensive system. My dream is regional rail but its not going to be the holy grail. We do need to focus on our core in other ways including our own urban transit before we start diverting funds to accomodate out of county folks. Sure, a massive holistic approach for all of central Ohio sounds wonderful but it's not feasible right now. My biggest point being that even a massive transit overhaul isn't going to chance C Suite folks deciding to move from Downtown to the Suburbs. Having more people who work in these places who live downtown and surrounding is going to do more for helping or bringing companies back than accommodating people leaving outside the county for easier transit. So make downtown as attractive as possible to love and ramp up residency and the rest will follow. Cbussoccer is right in that there's a reset that Columbus, and most other mid size markets, are going through. It's going to take some time but downtown and urban cores are going to look very different than they did in the latter half of the 21st Century. Edited April 17, 20241 yr by DTCL11
April 17, 20241 yr It's not just office jobs moving to the suburbs (because that's where the big bosses live) and WFH. It's also a lot less office jobs in general. Wall Street now considers those "fat" while blue-collar jobs are production capacity (in whatever form it takes) so it's bad when you cut those. Plus cutting blue-collar jobs is bad PR while the (not true) assumption is that white-collar people will easily find other work.
April 18, 20241 yr 17 hours ago, DTCL11 said: Upper Arlington is, for all intents and purposes, a bubble of Columbus. It's no different than my experience on the 4 from Old North/Clintonville. My point about outside 270 remains. It's just a different jurisdiction. Circulators are our best bet for the causal folks. Frequency, and dedicated lanes is the name of the game for the rest of us. While looking to expand some service and route for alternative cross town access but even the biggest, most comprehensive transit systems have those shortcomings. Try to get from most of Queens to Brooklyn, or Lakeview to Ligan Square in a timely or efficient fashion. But there's also a mindset that public transit should get us from all point As to All point Bs with little effort or time thats an unachievable goal. The 1 line gets you to all those places, but you might have to walk a couple blocks after you get off. If you solve the frequency issue, is there still a complaint that it's not easy to go for coffee at Staufs, head to Hubbard for Dinner, and then over to Huntington for a game? Something we also lose perspective of is how much more people walk in big cities. It's nothing for those without mobility issues to walk from 250s High to Staufs. Many don't even think about it. But here we do. Because it's easy to drive or otherwise. I will still assert that the move from Downtown to Northern Suburbs isn't going to be alleviated by trying to get New Albany, Pataskala etc subdivisions to hop on a transit line to downtown. In fact, it may expedite office expansion in those areas because they know that their people want to drive and have free parking and transit works 2 ways. Transit people are gojng to prefer tranit. Drivers are going to prefer to drive. So a company would say, well, my city folk can just as easily transit out and be happy and my suburban folks will also be happy not having to drive all the way in to town. See any number of cities where office hubs spring up around transit hubs outside the outer belt. Charlotte for example. Transit isn't what has been driving uptown growth. It's diversity in residential, retail, sports, parks, etc. They've added rail and it hasn't necessarily driven new office growth downtown. It has helped explode residential but they're experiencing the same decline in office use and reduction in new office construction that the rest of us are. DC core is being wiped out while offices are growing in Virginia and Maryland along those Metro hubs. My point shouldn't be misconstrued as transit resistance. I dream of a comprehensive system. My dream is regional rail but its not going to be the holy grail. We do need to focus on our core in other ways including our own urban transit before we start diverting funds to accomodate out of county folks. Sure, a massive holistic approach for all of central Ohio sounds wonderful but it's not feasible right now. My biggest point being that even a massive transit overhaul isn't going to chance C Suite folks deciding to move from Downtown to the Suburbs. Having more people who work in these places who live downtown and surrounding is going to do more for helping or bringing companies back than accommodating people leaving outside the county for easier transit. So make downtown as attractive as possible to love and ramp up residency and the rest will follow. Cbussoccer is right in that there's a reset that Columbus, and most other mid size markets, are going through. It's going to take some time but downtown and urban cores are going to look very different than they did in the latter half of the 21st Century. You said "these same people would never take public transit" and I was just providing you an example of those exact people regularly taking public transit. If the transit is there, people will use it it's as simple as that. Lumping massive diverse groups of people into big categories is doing absolutely nothing positive to help anything.
April 18, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, TIm said: You said "these same people would never take public transit" and I was just providing you an example of those exact people regularly taking public transit. If the transit is there, people will use it it's as simple as that. Lumping massive diverse groups of people into big categories is doing absolutely nothing positive to help anything. 'These same people' being C Suite Folks and the ones making the decisions to move to the suburbs. Not the grunts. I'm well aware your average worker may, including some from the burbs but Folks with designated parking spots and negotiated salaries and bonus structures... not so much. I'll stand by my statement all day. Edited April 18, 20241 yr by DTCL11
April 18, 20241 yr Just now, DTCL11 said: 'These same people' being C Suite Folks and the ones making the decisions to move to the suburbs. Not the grunts. I'll stand by my statement all day. Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions! Never provides any actual value and often make people look foolish in the long run.
April 18, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, TIm said: Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions! Never provides any actual value and often make people look foolish in the long run. Even if we take out that part, and the off chance that one of these decision makers takes transit, the rest of my commentary stands on its own. But sure, let's hyper focus on the fact that an executive may or may not take transit if available.
April 18, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, DTCL11 said: Even if we take out that part, and the off chance that one of these decision makers takes transit, the rest of my commentary stands on its own. But sure, let's hyper focus on the fact that an executive may or may not take transit if available. The only way they'll ever implement any increased type of public transit in this city (or anywhere) is if they think people will use it. Aside from securing the money and resources, it's literally the most important factor.
April 18, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, TIm said: The only way they'll ever implement any increased type of public transit in this city (or anywhere) is if they think people will use it. Aside from securing the money and resources, it's literally the most important factor. Right. Which is why we are voting on a comprehensive transit plan that tackles just that in the city. Improving transit where it is mostly in demand and most likely to be used. COTA, MORPC, and all the parties involved understand that we can focus on convincing the folks who live outside the county, in the least dense areas of central Ohio, who are the most car dependent already, at a later time. Again, sorry if I assumed C Suite folks live out there and have no interest in taking transit but again, that's losing the plot here. Edited April 18, 20241 yr by DTCL11
April 18, 20241 yr On 4/17/2024 at 1:59 PM, TIm said: I use to commute through Upper Arlington everyday for over a year and there were always people dressed to work in an office waiting at the bus stops. Outer ring suburbanites are a different animal entirely than inner ring suburbanites. When we have discussions around "getting suburbanites downtown," I assume we are talking about the outer ring suburbanites. Of course Upper Arlington residents are more open to urbanity. That's why they live there instead of Dublin/Powell/New Albany.
April 18, 20241 yr Very this. In my experience, the Grandview/Bexley/UA/Clintonville residents are quite comfortable within the city. They grab the bus for games or Boom!, they walk, shop, dine, and brewery hop like the rest of the urban cbus dwellers. It's once you hit the Powell/Gahanna/NA/Reynoldsburg people that it becomes a different story. Way more insular in a way, 270 really is a big divide, physically and mentally. Anecdotally, all of my friends who have moved outside the loop for one reason or another... they kind of just drift away once they lose that urban perspective.
April 19, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, DevolsDance said: Very this. In my experience, the Grandview/Bexley/UA/Clintonville residents are quite comfortable within the city. They grab the bus for games or Boom!, they walk, shop, dine, and brewery hop like the rest of the urban cbus dwellers. It's once you hit the Powell/Gahanna/NA/Reynoldsburg people that it becomes a different story. Way more insular in a way, 270 really is a big divide, physically and mentally. Anecdotally, all of my friends who have moved outside the loop for one reason or another... they kind of just drift away once they lose that urban perspective. It is certainly a different mentality in many cases, but more so it’s a matter of practicality. Good luck getting to a bus stop in a safe and timely manner and then getting almost anywhere else in the city in a reasonable amount of time from almost anywhere in the suburbs outside 270. It’s highly likely you’ll be faced with a 30-40 minute walk along/across very dangerous roads just to get to a bus stop which is not frequently serviced. Living in Groveport, taking the bus is completely impractical for me. I would love to take the bus to a Crew game to avoid paying for parking, but I literally can’t.
April 19, 20241 yr Some news tucked into this longer article on the downtown office market - the 5/3 building is in line for partial residential conversion of its top floors. I think that will do well Downtown offices stabilizing, despite KeyBank building's problems Columbus real-estate experts were surprised by problems with a Downtown office tower but said it doesn't reflect Downtown's office market, which is showing signs of recovery ... Plans are in the works for another major Downtown conversion: transforming floors 17 through 23 of the Fifth Third building on the corner of State and South High streets into residences "The owners invested about $16 million in past 24 months in that property, with major exterior renovations, back-of-house improvements, a beautiful entrance and a lounge on top of the building, and a new fitness facility. Now they're looking at bigger plans in terms of where in the building is correct for multifamily conversion" https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/real-estate/2024/04/19/downtown-offices-stabilizing-despite-keybank-buildings-problems/73353761007/ Edited April 19, 20241 yr by NW24HX
April 19, 20241 yr 24 minutes ago, NW24HX said: Some news tucked into this longer article on the downtown office market - the 5/3 building is in line for partial residential conversion of its top floors. I think that will do well Downtown offices stabilizing, despite KeyBank building's problems Columbus real-estate experts were surprised by problems with a Downtown office tower but said it doesn't reflect Downtown's office market, which is showing signs of recovery ... Plans are in the works for another major Downtown conversion: transforming floors 17 through 23 of the Fifth Third building on the corner of State and South High streets into residences "The owners invested about $16 million in past 24 months in that property, with major exterior renovations, back-of-house improvements, a beautiful entrance and a lounge on top of the building, and a new fitness facility. Now they're looking at bigger plans in terms of where in the building is correct for multifamily conversion" https://www.dispatch.com/story/business/real-estate/2024/04/19/downtown-offices-stabilizing-despite-keybank-buildings-problems/73353761007/ I was shocked they didn’t go ahead and do the conversion while the renovation was going on. Glad it might be happening now.
April 19, 20241 yr 18 hours ago, TH3BUDDHA said: Outer ring suburbanites are a different animal entirely than inner ring suburbanites. When we have discussions around "getting suburbanites downtown," I assume we are talking about the outer ring suburbanites. Of course Upper Arlington residents are more open to urbanity. That's why they live there instead of Dublin/Powell/New Albany. All suburbs are suburbs. Why are we excluding certain suburbs from the discussion because of where they are located? The close ones just have the benefit of COTA actually having stops there and those stops being used should be referenced as a reason why more stops should be added to further out suburbs. People in suburbs will use public transit if it's available in their suburb, that's all I'm trying to convey with this example. The location of the suburb is irrelevant. I'm from Massachusetts originally and people from much much further out than what Dublin is to Columbus used public transit to get to Boston every single day because it was an available option to them. Hell, I use to take the bus to the airport from Cape Cod because it was available to me. Hard to say people in suburbs here won't use public transit when it's literally never even been an option for them in any capacity. If you build it, they will come! Edited April 19, 20241 yr by TIm
April 19, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, TIm said: Why are we excluding certain suburbs from the discussion because of where they are located? Because this is really a discussion around the urban/non-urban divide and not actually about particular suburbs. People in inner ring suburbs fall into the urban category of that divide and don't need convincing about urbanism. So, the fact that you pointed out that people in urban areas(Upper Arlington) are using buses is largely irrelevant to the discussion in convincing "non urban"(Powell/New Albany/Dublin) to do the same thing. As others have mentioned, the mentalities differ greatly across that divide. Edited April 19, 20241 yr by TH3BUDDHA
April 19, 20241 yr That's the key. If you build it. The MBTA receives half it's funding from state sales tax. That is it's largest source of funding with fare revenue behind that. Some municipalities also provide additional funds but it's a small portion of the revenue. Improvements are often heavily state involved and MBTA like many legacy cities benefits from rail networks established long ago. The last rail expansion was the early 80s. Most of the rail network, like the NYC Subway system is built off aquiring prive rail lines built as long as 100 years ago. And the expansion of MBTA service to additional suburbs was madated by the state over a period of time with agreements to be reimbursed. Also, keep in mind your Cape Cod transit it a different entity that links up with MBTA. The structure of COTA and Ohio law is vastly different than MA. And largely, only entities that essentially buy in to COTA by participating in the sales tax with some exceptions are serviced by COTA. Not even all of Franklin County pays the sales tax for COTA. For outer burbs, Dublin, Reynoldsburg, Westerville, Hilliard and Grove City also participate so they have limited service as well that could be expanded. Don't get me wrong. A complete restructure and funding SHOULD be done and the state should changes laws and be able to create a rail entity for a comprehensive regional network and I think that demand may increase over time but you'd have to get voters in the remaining areas of central Ohio to approve it, or get lawmakers to change the state code. Its why MORPC can't create it's own regional rail entity as well. COTA is not going to, and shouldn't largely invest in New Albany, Powell, Pickerington, Delaware, etc when they aren't contributing to the operations. So while all the counties SHOULD create a single entity and pact, they haven't and aren't in the near future. Politics is going to have to significantly change. Or, the suburbs will have to create their own transit systems they fund and there will be mutual links. It's always fun to think that Dallas was able to create a pretty remarkable rail network in modern times and Charlotte is working on it but their leaders were and are different. Until we get people elected to think and act differently and voters to see value in the region, we have to focus on what we can do. So when you say, If you build it, they will come, as it is, that's putting the financial burden of servicing suburbs on areas that pay the taxes for it. Heck, we can't even get the county the zoo is in to help support the zoo financially, good luck getting them to buy in to transit. It just comes down to the reality of the situation and I think that's the perspective some of us look at. We all have dream maps, but we have to finish laying the ground work in our own territory and show it can be successful, then maybe we start getting buy in outside the loop.
April 20, 20241 yr I take it this one died as well... https://columbusunderground.com/seven-story-building-proposed-for-downtown-parking-lot-bw1/
April 22, 20241 yr On 4/18/2024 at 8:17 PM, cbussoccer said: It is certainly a different mentality in many cases, but more so it’s a matter of practicality. Good luck getting to a bus stop in a safe and timely manner and then getting almost anywhere else in the city in a reasonable amount of time from almost anywhere in the suburbs outside 270. It’s highly likely you’ll be faced with a 30-40 minute walk along/across very dangerous roads just to get to a bus stop which is not frequently serviced. Living in Groveport, taking the bus is completely impractical for me. I would love to take the bus to a Crew game to avoid paying for parking, but I literally can’t. There used to be lots of bus stops on Main Street in Groveport but they took them away. Now you call the on-demand transit to come pick you up and take you to the Marathon at 317 and Alum Creek Dive then get on a COTA bus there. I could still hop directly onto a COTA bus in 2016 when I moved here.
April 22, 20241 yr 15 minutes ago, GCrites said: There used to be lots of bus stops on Main Street in Groveport but they took them away. Now you call the on-demand transit to come pick you up and take you to the Marathon at 317 and Alum Creek Dive then get on a COTA bus there. I could still hop directly onto a COTA bus in 2016 when I moved here. Yep, I remember those days. I believe there were stops along Main at Hendron/Tallman, College, and Front. I think there was one at the Rec Center as well. It's a shame those were taken away.
April 23, 20241 yr Thanks to both of you for sharing that. I thought I remembered seeing buses in town but whenever I'd check the COTA site to see what routes could be used to get to this or that destination, I kept coming up with just that Marathon stop several miles outside of town. Granted in any circumstance, the ride from Groveport to my office near Grandview is a little cumbersome with the current routes, but having the first/final stop a five minute walk from my house near Tallman would go a long way to taking the sting out. Edited April 23, 20241 yr by Zordon Shumway
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