Americans are a mess vs Europe where:

 

• They prioritize community/relationships
• Heavy focus on work-life balance
• Foods aren't filled with chemicals
• Better healthcare system
• They're more active

 

Among many other things that lead to an overall less stressful life & less stress-induced weight gain.

 

 

All valid and you hit on some of the reasons why (processed foods and lack of work-life balance).  But these things are partially related to why our country is so great.  Below is our American productivity vs other nations and our unemployment vs other nations.

We are far from perfect and I don't have the answers - but would I rather be overweight but have a meaningful job or thin and unemployment?

To be honest, the answer depends on which day you catch me.

My bigger point is that, as with most things in life, there are trade-offs.

 

Productivity:

 

Unemployment:

Yes let's all die in our 50s like overworked people do. So that way a bunch of billionaires can get even richer. The fantasy of a tool.

Edited July 12, 2024Jul 12 by GCrites

2 hours ago, Chazz Michael Michaels said:

All valid and you hit on some of the reasons why (processed foods and lack of work-life balance).  But these things are partially related to why our country is so great.  Below is our American productivity vs other nations and our unemployment vs other nations.

We are far from perfect and I don't have the answers - but would I rather be overweight but have a meaningful job or thin and unemployment?

To be honest, the answer depends on which day you catch me.

My bigger point is that, as with most things in life, there are trade-offs.

 

Productivity:

 

Unemployment:

 

College or HS graduates?

Much talk of Americans moving to Italy lately!

 

He bought a cheap house in Italy to improve his life expectancy

Silvia Marchetti, CNN

July 9, 2024

 

Most people buying cheap houses in Italy are simply attracted by the idea of paying a bargain price for the opportunity to escape to somewhere warmer that has better food.

 

But what if it could also help you live longer?

 

That was the thinking for Bingwa Thomas, 72, originally from Kansas City, who purchased an old dwelling in Latronico, deep in Italy’s southern Basilicata region, hoping that the change in lifestyle would push him well beyond the life expectancy of his demographic in the United States. Of course, price was also a factor.

 

https://www.cnn.com/travel/man-buys-cheap-house-italy-life-expectancy/index.html

A really cool example of overall lifestyle benefits on health. This story has always FLOORED me... especially given that these individuals lives got objectively less healthy (re: trans fat, processed foods, etc.) when they arrived in America from Italy. 

 

https://haguepartners.com/the-town-that-lived-forever/

Coincidentally, I am in Europe right now.  Our first stop was Amsterdam (followed by Paris and London).  On the second day in Amsterdam, my family and I were sitting at a pub and I was just people watching.  I said to my family, "Have you noticed there are no fat people here".  They were all like, OMG you are right!  It is very noticeable once it clicks in your mind.  I bet I only saw 4-5 fat people in Amsterdam (not exaggerating) , and they were all clearly American.

I think air conditioning plays a part.  Who wants to eat in the heat? We used to just sweat the pounds off in the summer.

You had to go outside. Inside was just soap operas during the day.

Was out in suburban KC yesterday at the Kansas Speedway and in KC and the Midwest in general (those red states really) I feel there is a huge fascination with parking as close to a destination as possible - there was ridiculous levels of cars driving round in circles to try and find close parking spaces to the outlet mall. People are married to convenience whether that be driving or parking literally at the front door of Target or Chick fil-a, and if they can't do so, its gnashing and complaining. People in KC complained about having to potentially walk 0.5 miles from a new Royals stadium to the Power and Light District or to walk the same distance to a parking lot. People are entitled and thats a long time from ever changing in this part of the world.

On 7/12/2024 at 2:45 PM, YABO713 said:

A really cool example of overall lifestyle benefits on health. This story has always FLOORED me... especially given that these individuals lives got objectively less healthy (re: trans fat, processed foods, etc.) when they arrived in America from Italy. 

 

https://haguepartners.com/the-town-that-lived-forever/

I recently started eating food that was one to two Ingredients only. It's insane how much fat you can shed from doing that. I replaced eating all processed sweets with frozen mango and strawberries. Sure they have sugar but they have equal amounts of fiber. I dropped so much excess fat off my stomach changing absolutely nothing else in my life. 

5 hours ago, KFM44107 said:

I recently started eating food that was one to two Ingredients only. It's insane how much fat you can shed from doing that. I replaced eating all processed sweets with frozen mango and strawberries. Sure they have sugar but they have equal amounts of fiber. I dropped so much excess fat off my stomach changing absolutely nothing else in my life. 

 

I also think part of it is the fact that we've made it a faux-pas in America to even acknowledge that obesity is a bad thing. 

The overwhelming number one cause of the American obesity is our car-centric society. There aren’t enough “useful walks” in our lives. All of these other factors pale in comparison. If we want to address this challenge, we need to promote and support active mobility everywhere possible, including infrastructure investments like protected bike lanes. 

Being a carcentric isn't helpful, but it's mostly diet.

 

We eat like s**t here, and this is the result.

1 hour ago, TBideon said:

Being a carcentric isn't helpful, but it's mostly diet.

 

We eat like s**t here, and this is the result.

It is not mostly diet. The general lack of activity is a much bigger factor. People in other countries don’t eat THAT much better than Americans. But they do get more physical activity, because useful walks are built into their daily life. 

Their food is also a lot healthier than ours. Plus portion sizes are wildly different. Imagine what a Swedish family thinks when they go to a Cheesecake Factory on a visit.

Our portion sizes used to be OK when people were filling up on pot roast and lima beans instead of Chips Ahoy.

2 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

It is not mostly diet. The general lack of activity is a much bigger factor. People in other countries don’t eat THAT much better than Americans. But they do get more physical activity, because useful walks are built into their daily life. 

 

Arguably, we eat better than other countries, but our portion sizes are f**ked and, the lower you go down the socioeconomic ladder, ironically, the harder it is to find local food (I say ironically because so much of the world's poor are subsistence farmers). 

 

Also, to @KFM44107's point... I made some really small changes - i.e. I buy my bread from the bakery at the WSM instead of off the shelf, and , when possible, I take my bike to run any errand within 5 miles. The minor changes made a big difference in how I feel and helped lose some fat. 

 

I also think we need to re-implement rigorous phys-ed classes. JFK got mocked for saying this in the 60s, but a sedentary populace is actually a national security concern, militarily and economically.  

I was recently in Northern European and this was top of mind. In addition to not seeing many obese people, also gone were scores of urban joggers. I guess you don't need to jog every evening if you have a more active lifestyle throughout the day.

A buddy of mine goes overseas a lot with the military and he's generally the only person in town who runs regularly. 

I hate for this to sound cliche, but after moving out of northeast Kentucky and to Indianapolis, adopting a much more active lifestyle (daily walks, hiking/camping on the weekends, walks with the dog, walks to the neighborhood restaurant/bar), eating healthier, I've lost 10 pounds in a month (to 140 lb.) and toned up quick. It didn't take much to break out of a more sedentary lifestyle. I also feel less sluggish throughout the day.

Edited September 25, 2024Sep 25 by seicer

On 7/15/2024 at 1:16 PM, YABO713 said:

 

Arguably, we eat better than other countries, but our portion sizes are f**ked and, the lower you go down the socioeconomic ladder, ironically, the harder it is to find local food (I say ironically because so much of the world's poor are subsistence farmers). 

 

Also, to @KFM44107's point... I made some really small changes - i.e. I buy my bread from the bakery at the WSM instead of off the shelf, and , when possible, I take my bike to run any errand within 5 miles. The minor changes made a big difference in how I feel and helped lose some fat. 

 

I also think we need to re-implement rigorous phys-ed classes. JFK got mocked for saying this in the 60s, but a sedentary populace is actually a national security concern, militarily and economically.  

 

A big mistake was the de-emphasization of competition in phys ed classes, especially with respect to boys.    Whatever the reasons.

 

Boys that age tend to crave competition and when their introduction to physical activities did not provide it, video games did.

 

At some point obesity among men even began to lose its stigma, it hung around longer among women but it is either fading or becoming internalized and extreme there.   Neither is healthy.

Disagree. It's all about diet.

 

 

double standard why the same food from the usa is

 

We eat like s-hit, we eat s-hit, we look like s-hit.

 

It's pretty much that simple.

24 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

A big mistake was the de-emphasization of competition in phys ed classes, especially with respect to boys.    Whatever the reasons.

 

Boys that age tend to crave competition and when their introduction to physical activities did not provide it, video games did.

 

At some point obesity among men even began to lose its stigma, it hung around longer among women but it is either fading or becoming internalized and extreme there.   Neither is healthy.

 

Being physically fit enables you to carry fat better more than it enables you to actually lose it.  TBideon is mostly right about the relationship between diet and weight.  That's not to say there isn't also plenty of need to push back on the increasingly sedentary lifestyle of most Americans (it's a running joke that my office has a gym and only a handful of people actually use it every week).  But the real contribution of car dependence and non-physical jobs to obesity is that it enables (one might even say pushes or incentivizes, in many cases) poor eating choices.

 

The fact is that a typical, able human body is remarkably good at not burning energy.  Even the fact that we evolved to walk upright was in part an energy-saving measure.  Walking typically burns under 100 calories per mile.  That's better than nothing, yes, but most people don't have the time to walk long distances every day (whether to talk to/from work or just for health), and of course the more aerobically fit you get, the less you burn per mile (which in the wild would be a very good thing, which is again why we evolved the way we have).  And the body hates to run at a calorie deficit, so once you've added weight, losing it becomes a battle against your own biology.  At some point, you have to address the calories-in side of the equation.  Of course, there's almost no way to do this to a wide audience without coming across as arrogantly pontificating.

There needs to be an entire new societal approach to this obesity epidemic and its acceptance, and not just limited gestures like discounted company gyms or some virtual class on healthy eating. 

 

The Cleveland Clinic stopped hiring smokers 15ish years ago to limited outcry, and I'd say it was win win for the company, staff, patients and insurers.

 

A similar policy for obese people would be an interesting measure. Certainly there would be enormous backlash with many potential new hires disqualified, but over time, in combination with a ton of H1s, it might have a real impact. 

5 minutes ago, TBideon said:

There needs to be an entire new societal approach to this obesity epidemic and its acceptance, and not just limited gestures like discounted company gyms or some virtual class on healthy eating. 

 

The Cleveland Clinic stopped hiring smokers 15ish years ago to limited outcry, and I'd say it was win win for the company, staff, patients and insurers.

 

A similar policy for obese people would be an interesting measure. Certainly there would be enormous backlash with many potential new hires disqualified, but over time, in combination with a ton of H1s, it might have a real impact. 

 

I don't disagree with your diet point - but (and I know this is anecdotal), I've always had a yo-yo relationship with the type of food I eat and working out. Through law school, I worked out twice a day and ate whatever I wanted - since that's not practical now, I've tried to strike a middle ground. All of this is to say - you can out train your diet, and you can also make food-based choices into good health - the path isn't necessarily binary. My grandpa was eating fried bologna sandwiches and Spam everyday in the 50s and 60s and was absolutely chiseled. 

 

I also find it hilarious that there's a right wing sub-culture now about the dangers of food dye, preservatives, etc... but when Michelle Obama tried to get healthier lunches into schools she was called a wannabe dictator... 

2 hours ago, TBideon said:

Disagree. It's all about diet.

* * *

double standard why the same food from the usa is

 

We eat like s-hit, we eat s-hit, we look like s-hit.

 

It's pretty much that simple.

Yes, highly processed food is not good for you (so maybe it should be taxed; maybe we shouldn't be subsidizing corn syrup; maybe we need a marketing campaign against processed foods -- all things to consider).  But I disagree with the idea that "just" eating better is going to solve the problem. 

 

You can find junk food in Japan (7-Eleven rules!) or Europe (and the best desserts), but you won't find so many obese people.  They're not hitting the gym, but they eat smaller portions and move so much more than the average American.  The car-centric design of our lives is absolutely part of the problem and something that has really changed from the 1950s -- more so than kids not being competitive in gym class, which I find laughable given my own experience with kids.  Even more so than in the 1950s, every family has a car or multiple cars, and we have built so many more neighborhoods where it isn't practical or even possible to live there without a car, developments where there's nowhere you can even walk to if you wanted to. 

 

Add the internet, air conditioning, and remote work and you can socialize, eat dinner, and be entertained from the comfort of your sectional sofa, and many do.

 

 

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

I don't disagree with your diet point - but (and I know this is anecdotal), I've always had a yo-yo relationship with the type of food I eat and working out. Through law school, I worked out twice a day and ate whatever I wanted - since that's not practical now, I've tried to strike a middle ground. All of this is to say - you can out train your diet, and you can also make food-based choices into good health - the path isn't necessarily binary. My grandpa was eating fried bologna sandwiches and Spam everyday in the 50s and 60s and was absolutely chiseled. 

 

I also find it hilarious that there's a right wing sub-culture now about the dangers of food dye, preservatives, etc... but when Michelle Obama tried to get healthier lunches into schools she was called a wannabe dictator... 

 

For the most part (there are always exceptions when "right wing" is broadly defined) but the sub culture stresses the voluntary.    The Obama program did not.....and no one elected her to anything.   

 

That's the logic.

16 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

For the most part (there are always exceptions when "right wing" is broadly defined) but the sub culture stresses the voluntary.    The Obama program did not.....and no one elected her to anything.   

 

That's the logic.

Yes, the freedom to die of cardiovascular disease at 40 from parents opting into often times economically-driven unhealthy lunch choices... freedom nonetheless though. 

 

Home cooking is a lot more important in those other countries as well. Here it's all about just getting the goddamn meal out of the way so pretty soon kids hate home food.

13 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Yes, the freedom to die of cardiovascular disease at 40 from parents opting into often times economically-driven unhealthy lunch choices... freedom nonetheless though.

 

The reason for government to regulate school lunches is that kids generally are not able to make the best choices for their own health. Schools shouldn't be seeking out the lowest-priced vendor for food. And it shouldn't be objectionable to say that school lunches should include vegetables, protein, fruit, and less sugar and processed food. 

10 minutes ago, Foraker said:

The reason for government to regulate school lunches is that kids generally are not able to make the best choices for their own health.

 

My wife and her mother are borderline gourmet Indian chefs.  They both spend hours in the kitchen cooking up enough fresh-cooked, homemade South Indian food for a platoon.  My house constantly smells like an Indian restaurant.  And their home cooking is packed with vegetable proteins, paneer, amazing spice mixes, and minimal sugars and salts.

 

The kids constantly respond to what she puts on their plates by asking for Kraft mac & cheese, or Taco Bell.

 

(My kids are blissfully unaware how close they have frequently come to disciplinary defenestration.)

19 minutes ago, Foraker said:

 

The reason for government to regulate school lunches is that kids generally are not able to make the best choices for their own health. Schools shouldn't be seeking out the lowest-priced vendor for food. And it shouldn't be objectionable to say that school lunches should include vegetables, protein, fruit, and less sugar and processed food. 

One of my offspring is a HS athlete. He is always tuned in to "feeding his body" since he spends so much time training. He's at the stage of his career where he is trying to add muscle (and a lot of it) for his sport. To the point about the deficient school lunches, he specifically said it's closer to impossible to bulk during the school year because the lunches are so terrible. He packs and eats throughout the day in between classes. "Chipelto" is his go to. LOL. 

6 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

For the most part (there are always exceptions when "right wing" is broadly defined) but the sub culture stresses the voluntary.    The Obama program did not.....and no one elected her to anything.   

 

That's the logic.

Its school lunch. Competely okay to regulate a taxpayer funded servicein a public school.

6 hours ago, Foraker said:

 

The reason for government to regulate school lunches is that kids generally are not able to make the best choices for their own health. Schools shouldn't be seeking out the lowest-priced vendor for food. And it shouldn't be objectionable to say that school lunches should include vegetables, protein, fruit, and less sugar and processed food. 

 

The reason to "regulate" school lunches is that they're, by definition, provided by the government.  There is no free market.  All the complaining was and is just "keep your government hands off my Medicare!" level stupidity.

A little politics in this map showing how red/blue states and counties tend to make a difference in obesity. Of course, one simple reason is that in urban counties, we tend to walk more. I struggle to understand why there is such a stark difference between counties at some state lines.

 

 

Different poverty rates when you cross state lines?

^

Is likely. So you're telling me that people in rural IL are somehow thinner than people in rural IN and IA? And the rural TX panhandle is thinner than OK just by magically crossing over to the next county? Not buying it. Also not buying any political implications either; this is more likely attributed to regional culture and lifestyle. Just look at the mountain west states regardless of political preferences. Also, the number of urban areas in the US where people are walking at an appreciable rate is meaningless in regards to this map. What I do buy is that poor and uneducated are more likely to lead an unhealthy lifestyle, whether that's a poor white republican in rural WV or a poor black democrat on the south side of Chicago.  

1 hour ago, Rustbelter said:

^

Is likely. So you're telling me that people in rural IL are somehow thinner than people in rural IN and IA? And the rural TX panhandle is thinner than OK just by magically crossing over to the next county? Not buying it. Also not buying any political implications either; this is more likely attributed to regional culture and lifestyle. Just look at the mountain west states regardless of political preferences. Also, the number of urban areas in the US where people are walking at an appreciable rate is meaningless in regards to this map. What I do buy is that poor and uneducated are more likely to lead an unhealthy lifestyle, whether that's a poor white republican in rural WV or a poor black democrat on the south side of Chicago.  

So true. We would need to study the methodology deeper and assess the consistency or variability of the reported data in each County and each State to try to explain why adjoining counties in two neighboring states are obersved to be wildly dissimilar. It may be that the underlying report itself may have more thoughtful observations than the political headline slapped on top of @Hunter's twitter feed. Such a singular take-a-away that pits peoples/regions against each other politically is not helpful to our social discourse. 

On 9/25/2024 at 1:19 PM, Gramarye said:

 

My wife and her mother are borderline gourmet Indian chefs.  They both spend hours in the kitchen cooking up enough fresh-cooked, homemade South Indian food for a platoon.  My house constantly smells like an Indian restaurant.  And their home cooking is packed with vegetable proteins, paneer, amazing spice mixes, and minimal sugars and salts.

 

The kids constantly respond to what she puts on their plates by asking for Kraft mac & cheese, or Taco Bell.

 

(My kids are blissfully unaware how close they have frequently come to disciplinary defenestration.)

 

Any chance of a UO meet up at your place?  😁

On 9/25/2024 at 1:19 PM, Gramarye said:

 

(My kids are blissfully unaware how close they have frequently come to disciplinary defenestration.)

 

@Gramarye  I didn't know you were ruzzian!

I know most in the forum probably loathe the podcast, but Rogan had two guests on yesterday who focused entirely on identifying the genesis of American's health issues - I thought it was, at the very least, thought provoking - but for me it was shocking to hear some of the statistics. I think it's worth a listen. 

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

I know most in the forum probably loathe the podcast, but Rogan had two guests on yesterday who focused entirely on identifying the genesis of American's health issues - I thought it was, at the very least, thought provoking - but for me it was shocking to hear some of the statistics. I think it's worth a listen. 

Thanks for the heads up. That sounds very fascinating and I'll give it a listen.

Cleaned the thread up a little to stay on topic. 

Childhood obesity is an epidemic while childhood anorexia and malnourishment are considered abuse. Obesity should be given the same consideration, with kids taken out of these households just as they would if starved. Ideally.

 

Should parents who can't parent continue to parent? Probably not.

5 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Childhood obesity is an epidemic while childhood anorexia and malnourishment are considered abuse. Obesity should be given the same consideration, with kids taken out of these households just as they would if starved. Ideally.

 

Should parents who can't parent continue to parent? Probably not.

 

What the podcast touched on that I thought was particularly disturbing is the way big food corporations lobby to stay on food stamps. Coca Cola is the number one purchased item with government-issued assistance certificates. So, low-income families are driven to TERRIBLE food choices because of its calorie density. 

 

This wasn't really discussed in the podcast, but I also think the "body positivity" movement has become counterproductive and harmful to health, to some extent. 

I dunno. I suspect obesity is primarily related to FDA corruption, household income and demographics, not Lane Bryant, though being proud of being fat isn't helping. Folks, not everybody is beautiful.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2024Oct 9 by TBideon

9 minutes ago, TBideon said:

I dunno. I suspect obesity is primarily related to FDA corruption, household income and demographics, not Lane Bryant, though being proud of being fat isn't helping. Folks, not everybody is beautiful.

You can have a "plump" body type and be strong and healthy -- just being large is not necessarily obesity. 

The widespread use of sugars and salt in so much of our processed food is a problem.  The car-centric, drive-to-the-gym-to-exercise lifestyle doesn't help either.  Subsidized corn syrup makes cola cheap -- maybe we shouldn't be subsidizing corn syrup more than canned/frozen corn.  The oil industry has been immensely profitable -- yet the government subsidizes the oil industry massively and favorably regulates and promotes oil-adjacent industries like asphalt (promoting highways over rail or buses) and big trucks and SUVs (exempting them from the CAFE fuel standards).

 

In other words, the typical American lifestyle is unhealthy and yet a complex problem not easily solved -- but part of the problem is government incentives that have had some unintended consequences in helping to create that lifestyle.

What happened to the Clinic's plan of a couple years ago to order its employees to lose weight or else? What has their experience been?

51 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

This wasn't really discussed in the podcast, but I also think the "body positivity" movement has become counterproductive and harmful to health, to some extent. 

 

It certainly hasn't helped, but it was a reaction to the stigma against being fat decreasing for boys but not for girls.

 

So it's kind of understandable that it happened.