Just now, Dougal said:

What happened to the Clinic's plan of a couple years ago to order its employees to lose weight or else? What has their experience been?

 

Leaving aside the irony of an entity that expects people to use elevators to go down a floor or two making this proposal, it's pretty much contrary to the ADA.

26 minutes ago, Dougal said:

What happened to the Clinic's plan of a couple years ago to order its employees to lose weight or else? What has their experience been?

Was that a thing? I can't believe it.

41 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Leaving aside the irony of an entity that expects people to use elevators to go down a floor or two making this proposal, it's pretty much contrary to the ADA.

 

Nevertheless, Cosgrove, when CEO, did it.  And then, as I just found out, cravenly apologized.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/cleveland-clinic-ceo-apologizes-overweight-staffers-222282

Wow, well, good for him. I don't believe obesity is a legally protected class, but that battle was premature.

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

What the podcast touched on that I thought was particularly disturbing is the way big food corporations lobby to stay on food stamps. Coca Cola is the number one purchased item with government-issued assistance certificates. So, low-income families are driven to TERRIBLE food choices because of its calorie density. 

 

This is interesting, but are healthy alternatives not available?  Or is it more accurate to say that food stamps (or whatever the program is called now) can be used to buy both healthy and unhealthy drinks, and we still have to deal with the lifestyle issues that cause too many people to choose the unhealthy ones?

 

51 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

 

This wasn't really discussed in the podcast, but I also think the "body positivity" movement has become counterproductive and harmful to health, to some extent. 

 

It certainly hasn't helped, but it was a reaction to the stigma against being fat decreasing for boys but not for girls.

 

So it's kind of understandable that it happened.

 

I think it was entirely fair to criticize BMI as a measurement, and the Health at Every Size movement (or maybe it's too much to call it a "movement") made/makes good points about that.  Because of the high density of muscle, a muscular, stocky, short person (since BMI uses height as a denominator) will often register as "obese."

 

Needless to say, it's gone well past that to the point of trying to make it impossible to say anything negative about objectively bad health at either the individual or collective level.  But I'm still on board with both individual and collective/public health programs for both men and women that emphasize building physical strength rather than burning and/or avoiding calories.

1 hour ago, TBideon said:

I dunno. I suspect obesity is primarily related to FDA corruption, household income and demographics, not Lane Bryant, though being proud of being fat isn't helping. Folks, not everybody is beautiful.

 

 

 

Yeah I don't think it's a binary issue, at all. 

30 minutes ago, Gramarye said:

Needless to say, it's gone well past that to the point of trying to make it impossible to say anything negative about objectively bad health at either the individual or collective level.  But I'm still on board with both individual and collective/public health programs for both men and women that emphasize building physical strength rather than burning and/or avoiding calories.

 

Yep, as an anecdote, one of my best friends is 6-1 265 lbs, and works out 5x a week and eats a well-balanced diet. 

2 hours ago, Foraker said:

You can have a "plump" body type and be strong and healthy -- just being large is not necessarily obesity. 

Medical science definitely needs to come up with a better measure for this.  I'm 6'4", 247 lbs and my BMI is 31.  Obese by the body mass index scale.  Sure I have a little tiny dad belly, but I don't think anyone would consider me obese. 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Medical science definitely needs to come up with a better measure for this.  I'm 6'4", 247 lbs and my BMI is 31.  Obese by the body mass index scale.  Sure I have a little tiny dad belly, but I don't think anyone would consider me obese. 

 

 

 

At 6' 1" and going between 220 and 230, I'm right at the border of it, and same.

6 hours ago, YABO713 said:

I know most in the forum probably loathe the podcast, but Rogan had two guests on yesterday who focused entirely on identifying the genesis of American's health issues - I thought it was, at the very least, thought provoking - but for me it was shocking to hear some of the statistics. I think it's worth a listen. 

Listing 100s of statistics certainly may make them sound more credible.  But they also said something along the lines of 100% of the people eating healthy survived COVID -- which seems highly suspect, and an over-generalization at best.  I remember early on stories of seemingly super-healthy athletes succumbing.  Of course, the elderly were hit particularly hard, and I suspect that even if you eat well into old age there is bound to be some decline in the strength of your immune system.  Then there are those who eat healthy but have cancer or lung conditions unrelated to eating habits.  That one flaw really makes me question the validity of the rest of their statistics.  I suspect that there is a grain of truth in most of it, and a few outright misleading statistics in there.

 

But thought-provoking indeed.  I've heard from multiple sources now about the ubiquity of plastics and pesticides in our food chain (byproducts of the petroleum industry), and how and why that is problematic.  And I think they are right when they say We The People should really think about whether we want to change that (MAGA says no).

19 minutes ago, Foraker said:

Listing 100s of statistics certainly may make them sound more credible.  But they also said something along the lines of 100% of the people eating healthy survived COVID -- which seems highly suspect, and an over-generalization at best.  I remember early on stories of seemingly super-healthy athletes succumbing.  Of course, the elderly were hit particularly hard, and I suspect that even if you eat well into old age there is bound to be some decline in the strength of your immune system.  Then there are those who eat healthy but have cancer or lung conditions unrelated to eating habits.  That one flaw really makes me question the validity of the rest of their statistics.  I suspect that there is a grain of truth in most of it, and a few outright misleading statistics in there.

 

But thought-provoking indeed.  I've heard from multiple sources now about the ubiquity of plastics and pesticides in our food chain (byproducts of the petroleum industry), and how and why that is problematic.  And I think they are right when they say We The People should really think about whether we want to change that (MAGA says no).

 

Yeah I'm not advocating for everything they said - I also think their suggested correlation with the rise of Autism was flimsy at best. 

 

Having said that, though, some things they talked about have been on my mind all day. In particular, I cannot get passed the fact that most American pesticides and herbicides are banned in other major commercial markets, and I did confirm that workers wear light Hazmat suits when applying the pesticides at ground level. 

 

It's also crazy to me that that things like ED are becoming SOOOO prevalent among men - though that may also be due to desensitizing factors like pornography, etc. 

16 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

It's also crazy to me that that things like ED are becoming SOOOO prevalent among men - though that may also be due to desensitizing factors like pornography, etc.

They say Phthalates are endocrine disrupters, and effect men's reproductive health. Avoid highly fake scented products as much as you can, especially detergent, fabric softener, colognes...anything that can absorb right into your skin. I have a skin condition, so I gave those things up a long time ago.

2 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Medical science definitely needs to come up with a better measure for this.  I'm 6'4", 247 lbs and my BMI is 31.  Obese by the body mass index scale.  Sure I have a little tiny dad belly, but I don't think anyone would consider me obese. 

 

 

I’m 5’10” and weigh 180 lbs with body fat of 9% and I’m considered overweight based on BMI.

Yay, we're #1!! 😢

 

 

I double-checked this and it's true. Ridiculous!

 

 

This is what Robert F Kennedy should be focused on.   Unfortunately the agri-business/food lobby will come out in droves and convince him to focus on vaccines instead.   

 

 

European Fanta is indeed pretty good, and very much its own thing vs the American drink of the same name. I think it's more meant to compete with Orangina and the like, rather than be a typical American "orange" soda, in a region where mineral water is popular. 

I wonder if the issue is the high-fructose corn syrup itself, or that it's added (in large quantities, since it's cheap) to just about everything. Which effectively recalibrates people's pallets for sweetness, which makes sure it stays everywhere. Sodium in huge quantities where it doesn't belong is probably as big, or worse of a problem.

I have noticed the growing popularity and availability of unsweetened seltzers, at least in grocery stores. That's what we mostly drank when we lived in New England, Polar was widely available and excellent. I'm now seeing it Ohio more in places other than Jungle Jim's (along with Polar Orange Dry - which is not unlike euro Fanta, though it has HFCS). I noticed that recalibration when we first switched to seltzer, but after getting used to it regular soda becomes disgustingly sweet. That said, I mostly just drink plain water anymore.

Probably the bigger problem is the popularity of fast food in the American diet. Not only is there often HFCS and such where it probably doesn't belong, and an absolute ton of salt, but healthy-ish drink options are rare. If you don't want to drink liquid sugar, your options are diet soda (there have been legit - not RFK level - studies questioning how healthy that actually is), unsweetened ice tea, or water.

Sugar sugar sugar. I don't really like sugar that much so I notice how much sugar is being pushed on people. Walmart is just a total sugar festival and it's the dominant retailer in high poverty areas.

On 10/9/2024 at 4:41 PM, stpats44113 said:

I’m 5’10” and weigh 180 lbs with body fat of 9% and I’m considered overweight based on BMI.

Similar here. I'm 5'11" and about 190 lbs and considered overweight. I think my target weight is supposed to be about 170. That isn't happening.

On 10/9/2024 at 1:33 PM, YABO713 said:

 

Yep, as an anecdote, one of my best friends is 6-1 265 lbs, and works out 5x a week and eats a well-balanced diet. 

I am 6’1”, 240 lbs, played college football and ran my first marathon in October in a decent time. I am obese 🤷

1 minute ago, IAGuy39 said:

I am 6’1”, 240 lbs, played college football and ran my first marathon in October in a decent time. I am obese 🤷

Same here 6'4: 248 lbs....obese.   BMI gets worse as a measurement the bigger you naturally are.    

2 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

Same here 6'4: 248 lbs....obese.   BMI gets worse as a measurement the bigger you naturally are.    

I’ve also had my kidney measurement messed up because it doesn’t taken into account muscle mass. It uses creatinine to measure it. More muscle equals more creatinine (I’ve never taken creatine itself). Said I was in kidney failure stage 2. My primary care wasn’t worried but had me do the actual test and I am completely fine. 

4 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Similar here. I'm 5'11" and about 190 lbs and considered overweight. I think my target weight is supposed to be about 170. That isn't happening.

I dropped to 172 and everyone keeps asking me if I’m sick.

Unless you're 7'7, then they are at best tacky or worst gaslighting.

 

They don't really think you're sick; they're just pissed off you're healthier than them.

38 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Unless you're 7'7, then they are at best tacky or worst gaslighting.

 

They don't really think you're sick; they're just pissed off you're healthier than them.

Weight loss is a common side effect of quite a few serious diseases - it’s a reasonable question. 

14 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Weight loss is a common side effect of quite a few serious diseases - it’s a reasonable question. 

 

Where've you been?  It's the 2020's.  Anyone who says anything that makes you slightly uncomfortable in any way is guilty of some sort of hateful violation against your person.

Asking someone if they're sick due to weight loss has obvious subtext beyond supposed concern.

 

Like asking an overweight person if they're pregnant. The question itself is meant to degrade.

35 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Asking someone if they're sick due to weight loss has obvious subtext beyond supposed concern.

 

Like asking an overweight person if they're pregnant. The question itself is meant to degrade.

 

Obviously.  Anything that anyone says MUST be, can ONLY be, interpreted in the most insulting way that you can possibly imagine.

 

It's really best not to ask people personal questions at all, since you never know what makes them uncomfortable.  Best not to talk about yourself, as something about you may make people uncomfortable.

 

If you want to talk fishin', well I guess that'll be ok.

4 hours ago, TBideon said:

Like asking an overweight person if they're pregnant. The question itself is meant to degrade.

 

This reminds me of a joke that my grandmother once told at a family function when I was young, that was so out of character for her, I laugh at the memory every time I think of it: 

 

Little Suzie is riding the bus with her mom and chewing her fingernails.   The mom leans down to Suzie and says, "quit biting your nails or you'll end up looking like that guy over there," while pointing to a passenger with a huge beer belly.  

 

The next day they are on the bus again and a pregnant woman boards the bus.  Little Suzie looks up at her and yells "I KNOW WHAT YOU"VE BEEN DOING!"  

 

I'll show myself out...