On 10/18/2024 at 9:08 AM, cfdwarrior said:

Could the current stadium be torn down and the soccer stadium be built here?  I would think that with the smaller footprint of the soccer stadium, there could be practice fields built as well, which would encourage outdoor activity during warmer months.  Just an idea.

A smaller scale soccer stadium (10-12k) in place of HBF would bring much more activity to the lakefront than the current stadium and team.

It could/would be used on an almost daily basis (Spring through Fall) among the multiple soccer organizations in NE Ohio, as well as a perfectly sized concert venue for the RRHOF. Would be a boon to downtown hotels as well. 

35 minutes ago, Foraker said:

But it sure would be nice to take a train to Blossom and avoid the traffic hassle (and it would lessen the traffic for those who do drive).

I will never go to Blossom ever again after my last two traffic experiences going there. Spent over 4 hours in the car trying to get in and out. 

They should move the port of Cleveland to the very eastern end of Burke. This move would allow the port better access to rail and highway while keeping major cargo traffic away from downtown. With the port relocated, the city then would have plenty of valuable lakefront property available residential, recreational and commercial development that can be accessible to the Cuyahoga river and lakefront. Burke then can be developed in phases because of the vast amount of available property. It should probably start out as a large public park with ponds(nature observational areas), picnic and recreational areas with a continuous boardwalk and fishing piers with public boating docking facilities.

4 minutes ago, ctown60 said:

They should move the port of Cleveland to the very eastern end of Burke. This move would allow the port better access to rail and highway while keeping major cargo traffic away from downtown. With the port relocated, the city then would have plenty of valuable lakefront property available residential, recreational and commercial development that can be accessible to the Cuyahoga river and lakefront. Burke then can be developed in phases because of the vast amount of available property. It should probably start out as a large public park with ponds(nature observational areas), picnic and recreational areas with a continuous boardwalk and fishing piers with public boating docking facilities.

This should definitely be an option. And throw in the bulk stone and ore terminals on whiskey island and the south flats. Consolidate it all on the east end of Burke.

 

Would solve a lot of issues with Lakeview Terrace and the plans to create a new way to route truck traffic out of the Flats and the corresponding damage to city streets and air pollution to surrounding residents. Meanwhile freeing up amazing development parcels. 

44 minutes ago, marty15 said:

Would solve a lot of issues with Lakeview Terrace and the plans to create a new way to route truck traffic out of the Flats and the corresponding damage to city streets and air pollution to surrounding residents. Meanwhile freeing up amazing development parcels. 

 

It's not an area I exactly frequent, but my understanding is there are air quality issues at Lakeview that have nothing to do with trucks or the port, and that's part of why the complex hasn't been redeveloped.

On 10/20/2024 at 9:55 PM, Foraker said:

How about a better concert shell in downtown for when they do play?

The drive to Blossom (and trying to get out of Blossom afterward, and the lack of efficient public transit there and back) is pretty good persuasion for me to rarely go to Blossom...

I promise the Blossom orchestra concerts aren’t anywhere near as difficult to get in and out of as the rock concerts. I go all the time! Let me know if you want to car pool. And as far as the train - if CVSR gets the downtown extension done, they are looking at ways to make a special events service for Blossom concerts. The tracks are closer to the pavilion than the far grass lots, as Ken has pointed out in the CVSR thread. 

46 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

I promise the Blossom orchestra concerts aren’t anywhere near as difficult to get in and out of as the rock concerts. I go all the time! Let me know if you want to car pool. And as far as the train - if CVSR gets the downtown extension done, they are looking at ways to make a special events service for Blossom concerts. The tracks are closer to the pavilion than the far grass lots, as Ken has pointed out in the CVSR thread. 

 

They could even make it work out of the Station Street lot, which probably holds enough cars to fill the train.

On 10/5/2024 at 3:16 PM, bdaily said:

Here's an animated version of my PechaKucha presentation for anyone that may have wanted to catch the presentation but couldn't attend.

 

 

 

To be completely honest, when you first mentioned this presentation I passed it off as "just an idea." I'd forgotten about it until recently when it came back up in my saved YouTube videos...

 

"Every idea is fiction until we act" really hit me hard. The truth in this is more apparent to me every day—and for the more grown up members of this forum, I'm willing to bet you're still surprised at how many things that seemed like fiction 30 years ago turned into reality with sufficient time and effort.

 

I can relate to building my imaginary cities in Minecraft and daydreaming about how much I would change the world if I could. Now as I take the first steps in my career path I realize those don't have to be dreams for much longer. I'm in the process of applying to internships for several real estate and financial firms and regardless of how those pan out, I think I've settled on a long-term goal of leading my own projects in urban development or transportation someday.

 

Whether you're involved in this industry or not, I think this is an awesome example of how anyone can take their ideas and turn them into actions. I'm really looking forward to the rest of UO's "Cleveland What If/Hypothetical/Dream Projects," even if just a fraction of them can turn into reality 😉

Faster than trying to close the airport - closer than BP

If someone else figures out parking, maybe this pie-in-the-sky plan could work? 🤣

 

It meets the Justice Center site criteria...

There already most of an RTA station for the stadium!

 

 

If we need to move that part of the Port of Cleveland, maybe they can build a new one at Wendy park, and build a new Wendy Park where the current port is?

Isn't that what they're kinda trying to with the north coast masterplan?

there was a plan to move the port in 2008 to e55. I think at a cost of $500 million - back when $500 million bought you something. I have to believe that moving the port in 2024 would be over a billion dollars.

Fun with Photoshop AI 

 

Nice. And to think, about 20 years ago you could've charged the City 200k for that :-) 

3 hours ago, Ardoonave said:

Fun with Photoshop AI 

 

 

That blows away an overhead view I developed! Mind if I use that in a future blog @Ardoonave? If so, how do you want to be credited? 

On 10/29/2024 at 5:45 PM, Whipjacka said:

there was a plan to move the port in 2008 to e55. I think at a cost of $500 million - back when $500 million bought you something. I have to believe that moving the port in 2024 would be over a billion dollars.

Plus it may no longer fit at E 55th with Metroparks CHEERS and new Parker Sailing Center on the horizon.  Maybe at the east end of Burke but as you say at what cost?

 

https://www.clevelandmetroparks.com/about/planning-design/cheers-cleveland-harbor-eastern-embayment-resilien

 

https://www.clevelandmetroparks.com/news-press/2024/september-2024/cleveland-metroparks-and-partners-announce-world-c

5 hours ago, Ardoonave said:

Fun with Photoshop AI 

 

 

 

awesome — thats exactly the thing i want to see. great work! 🎉

20 hours ago, Ardoonave said:

Fun with Photoshop AI 

 

Looking at this picture, even developing the land bridge with the food hall underneath, the beach and the other public areas such as the water features would create a vibrant lakefront experience and those are the most doable parts of this vision. The buildings while they'll come would be icing on the cake. 

^ Looks good, although the FAA might have a problem with the Ferris wheel at that location, and possibly some of the other taller buildings.  Is that the USS Cod to the left of the Mather? 

45 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

^ Looks good, although the FAA might have a problem with the Ferris wheel at that location, and possibly some of the other taller buildings.  Is that the USS Cod to the left of the Mather? 

 

I think the assumption is that Burke is closed in that scenario.

23 hours ago, Ardoonave said:

Fun with Photoshop AI 

 

Now do Burke... ;) 

On 10/30/2024 at 2:50 PM, Ardoonave said:

Fun with Photoshop AI 

 

Welcome to Clevelands Municipal neighborhood.

On 10/30/2024 at 8:37 PM, mrnyc said:

 

 

awesome — thats exactly the thing i want to see. great work! 🎉

and the bridge ramps casting long shadows and blocking views to/from the Warehouse district are gone! Well done.

I think this is the correct thread for my musings -looking over @GISguy’s great pic below- maybe an SW2 (hardly a given at this moment) would fill  the gap between Courthouse Tower and HQ1 - and could a tall residential (or other) tower on the riverfront be tall enough to help fill in the gap between SW and Key?  Or does the lower elevation of the Bedrock riverfront  preclude that? 

Edited November 8, 2024Nov 8 by CleveFan

16 hours ago, CleveFan said:

I think this is the correct thread for my musings -looking over @GISguy’s great pic below- maybe an SW2 (hardly a given at this moment) would fill  the gap between Courthouse Tower and HQ1 - and could a tall residential (or other) tower on the riverfront be tall enough to help fill in the gap between SW and Key?  Or does the lower elevation of the Bedrock riverfront  preclude that? 

Yes - absolutely the correct thread for musings like this! Also a good spot for super quick crappy Photoshop jobs 😁

A second Sherwin Williams tower would go a ways in filling the gap between the new building and the Courthouse tower. 

As far as the gap between SW and Key from this angle, it really depends. The Courthouse tower is 430' but I have to double check if that's measured from the West Huron Road elevation or from Canal Road. Based on renderings/massings we've seen, it's hard to tell what heights are planned. So far the tallest appear to be two towers that mirror the Skylight Office/Ritz "twins" on the southern side of Huron, flanking the main concourse of the Tower City atrium.

What I've hastily put together would be two 400'ish towers but back when the Courthouse was constructed, they ended up lopping off a story from the original 25 because of the costs involved with the geotechnical conditions along the riverfront (I recall the phrase "swiss cheese" being used). If they did end up being taller than the Courthouse, you get an idea of what gaps they might fill. 

I'd rather see the gap filled between the lumen and terminal tower

On 9/26/2024 at 11:35 AM, MyPhoneDead said:

What if Cleveland was able to build any of their Downtown Subway plans such as the one that almost passed in (I believe in 1955)? Or what if Cleveland built the Dual Hub Corridor? We all know TOD is a buzz phrase that people use to talk about the impact transit can have on urban planning and development now. Do you all think that with a subway system connecting to more parts of the city would have had an impact on the city in terms of continued development, at least slowing the decline? Or do you all feel that the mindset of people back then towards transit would have led to the system experiencing disinvestment and decline similar to NYC in the 70s and 80s?

 

I know a lot of factors led to Cleveland's decline but I am curious if we would have scaled back our "Urban renewal" mindset and instead built neighborhoods around the Subway system with density similar to how we built our early neighborhoods around Streetcars. I have attached the 1955 plan if you all are unfamiliar and the link with the various failed plans. https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/361

 

I've always been miffed as to why there was no proposal to continue the Green Line Southwest to Pinecrest running alongside or under I-271. It would create a dynamic link between downtown and the lifestyle center spurring residential towers along the route. It would be a similar concept to how BART runs alongside 980 in Oakland to connect Antioch to the East and Richmond to the West with the rest of the Bay Area. I understand that there is a lot of NIMBY-ism in our region but if we can evolve past our Balkanized past we can create equity and mobility for all with a move like that. 

 

In regards to the subway, I would love the idea and take it a step further by burying the Blue and Green Lines where they enter residential neighborhoods in Shaker and Woodmere. It takes entirely too long to get from Van Aken to Downtown because of its at-grade crossings. I think its faster to drive.

Redirected from Lakefront Development thread:

A couple ideas for the history nerds like me... They could relocate or build a few New England/Western Reserve-style buildings to offer a small glimmer of what downtown Cleveland looked like when it was founded. But instead of the country stuff you see at Hale Farm, make it urban and tie it into the water as all that stuff was lost. It could be programmed by Hale Farm/WRHS.

 

Then take some of those trollies mentioned above and put them on a track that loops the property. People would love that. Mix that with the park stuff already planned, modern housing, retail and restaurants and that could be a pretty neat attraction. I agree with the comment above about mixing in lots of interesting things rather than going for a silver bullet that fills in all that stadium space with one thing.

2 hours ago, coneflower said:

A couple ideas for the history nerds like me... They could relocate or build a few New England/Western Reserve-style buildings to offer a small glimmer of what downtown Cleveland looked like when it was founded. But instead of the country stuff you see at Hale Farm, make it urban and tie it into the water as all that stuff was lost. It could be programmed by Hale Farm/WRHS.

 

I love this idea, but for the Flats. Still a lot of old buildings there in desperate need of some TLC. Bring in some of the old wooden ships as museums too! Maritime history is interesting and a huge draw. 

1 hour ago, surfohio said:

 

I love this idea, but for the Flats. Still a lot of old buildings there in desperate need of some TLC. Bring in some of the old wooden ships as museums too! Maritime history is interesting and a huge draw. 

 

Yeah this is exactly what I envision for the Flats. Also why I was a little bummed that the east end of Canal Basin park will end up as surface parking instead of recreating a small portion of the old neighborhood on Columbus Rd.

 

On the lakefront I would love to see something similar to Boston's Seaport District, albeit smaller, with a variety of buildings in a modern style and a walkable street grid. I think it would provide an interesting contrast with our historic downtown and force people to rethink their impression of the city.

51 minutes ago, sonisharri said:

 

Yeah this is exactly what I envision for the Flats. Also why I was a little bummed that the east end of Canal Basin park will end up as surface parking instead of recreating a small portion of the old neighborhood on Columbus Rd.

 

On the lakefront I would love to see something similar to Boston's Seaport District, albeit smaller, with a variety of buildings in a modern style and a walkable street grid. I think it would provide an interesting contrast with our historic downtown and force people to rethink their impression of the city.

They should start by returning a replica of the Lorenzo Carter cabin. Maybe call the park New Connecticut Park with some informational heritage signs describing the city as the capital (Cuyahoga City then Cleaveland) of New Connecticut or the Western Reserve. The heritage boards - as see at any National Park Service site - could convey the history and introduce the other Western Reserve towns, significance and their distance from the capital.

19 hours ago, sonisharri said:

 

On the lakefront I would love to see something similar to Boston's Seaport District, albeit smaller, with a variety of buildings in a modern style and a walkable street grid. I think it would provide an interesting contrast with our historic downtown and force people to rethink their impression of the city.

Ambitious- but Hell yeah! And we can get it started with a couple mixed-use “Intro” or “Van Aiken” like mixed-use apartment/condo buildings. 

3 hours ago, CleveFan said:

Ambitious- but Hell yeah!

 

For those unfamiliar, this is what 2 decades of downtown waterfront development can look like:

Do you think Cleveland can build up the waterfront like Toronto?😃

49 minutes ago, Philly215jawns said:

Do you think Cleveland can build up the waterfront like Toronto?😃

 

If we had Toronto's population and economic growth.

11 hours ago, sonisharri said:

 

For those unfamiliar, this is what 2 decades of downtown waterfront development can look like:

FWIW - I have cousins in Southie who HATE this project (I disagree with them, but I don't live there lol.)

 

They've lost several friends and families to the suburbs after Seaport made Southie a YoPro destination and, thereby, a more expensive place to live. As a reference, my cousin used to pay $220/month in 2016 for a designated parking spot for their family's one car. The same spot today costs $850/month. 

 

Again, I LOVE the Seaport District, though, and, unlike in Boston, our lakefront really doesn't have an "attached" neighborhood other than Downtown for this sort of spillover. 

2 hours ago, YABO713 said:

FWIW - I have cousins in Southie who HATE this project (I disagree with them, but I don't live there lol.)

 

They've lost several friends and families to the suburbs after Seaport made Southie a YoPro destination and, thereby, a more expensive place to live. As a reference, my cousin used to pay $220/month in 2016 for a designated parking spot for their family's one car. The same spot today costs $850/month. 

 

Again, I LOVE the Seaport District, though, and, unlike in Boston, our lakefront really doesn't have an "attached" neighborhood other than Downtown for this sort of spillover. 

 

Boston has deeper problems with affordability including NIMBYism and a zoning code almost 4,000 pages long. With their job growth significantly outpacing housing construction they will need to make significant reforms before any old urban neighborhoods can be affordable again.

 

The Flats might be the closest thing to an attached neighborhood if it weren't for the Port of Cleveland. But I think downtown could be made to feel contiguous with the lakefront with strategic development and infrastructure.

I would love to have Boston-level development on our lakefront. Cleveland's site plan for the stadium won't allow that level of density though.

3 hours ago, FutureboyWonder said:

Blarg, my dream of recreating/reenvisioning historic architecture meets another casualty.

 

Was there good reasoning?

* nevermind I found one of your articles stating timeline issues which is fair.  My love of aesthetics doesn't quite trump tax payers cost of building

 

I know I'm a broken record on here and bullish on the old stuff, but damnit it's not everyday you see a developer willing to straight up rebuild an aspect of our lost architectural heritage... and the renderings looked damn cool

If we go with The Pit location maybe the city could sell the current land for that same development once the new site is complete?

 

Or even better, build 5 of the 7 buildings from this plan on the Lutheran Lot on W25. 

 

The Lutheran Lot site scares me more than any other lot in the city right now, especially with My Place Group seemingly leading the way. It's an amazing space with great views that could easily house 1000+ residents with restaurants and shopping building off of Irishtown Bend, Hingetown, Ohio City, and the W25 BRT. It should be one of the best 5ish acre spaces in the state when finished. 

 

But the latest loose plans have 1000 parking spaces in garages that will take up most of the site, and less than 400 units on this site and the lot at 1756 W25 combined. 

Edited March 30Mar 30 by PlanCleveland

Has anyone here ever used the delve tool in google earth? Its a building design generator thats surprisingly in-depth. It does take time to get the hang of and also generate the various designs, but i figured if anyone loved the tool yall would.
 

• 3-D massings
   
• floor plate/sqr footage sttings
• parking requirements
• emission projections
• zoning/use type
• multiple generated massings
• and more!

im not sure if this link will work but i just randomly slapped in some parameters on the circle square site to see what would take place

4 hours ago, FutureboyWonder said:

 

im not sure if this link will work but i just randomly slapped in some parameters on the circle square site to see what would take place

 

It requires a login.

ah, i should have realized even to view youd have to login.

I still think for those of us dreamers on here its an incredibly powerful and fun way to visualize possibilities.
 

I made a pdf and this is a link to it in my google drive if someone would wanna take a look before linking their google account. Again, i just used random parameters

Edited April 10Apr 10 by FutureboyWonder

On 5/14/2025 at 10:22 PM, ASPhotoman said:

New riverfront renderings look sick! :P

Every fiber in my being wants that tower to the left of the federal building built its shape gives me art deco vibes. Columbus is building a very handsome neo-art deco residential building and I feel like and we cant let them pass us up in revival architecture.

I wish this could be reality D:

Edited May 17May 17 by FutureboyWonder

Bringing this over from the Ohio City thread, and it didn't feel right to put it in the Lakefront thread...

But what if Great Lakes Brewing was actually on our Great Lake? With the Browns seemingly set on their move to Brook Park, why not make Great Lakes an ANCHOR tenant of the new lakefront development? Obviously it seems weird to have what is basically a manufacturing warehouse taking up space there and needing space for trucks and shipping, but put it next to the Port/access roads where there would be easy truck and highway access and it's not so bad. Especially if they combine it with a hotel. The planning, permitting, construction, etc. timeline could line up with the the new Shoreway construction starting in 2027 and Browns Stadium teardown in early 2029.

The site below is about 160k sqft, per @KJP , they were looking for roughly 200k in Westlake. The Brewdog site in Canal Winchester has a total building footprint of around 115k sqft, which includes their brewing facilities, taproom, and a 40 room hotel. Their max capacity at that facility is 150k barrels per year, and Great Lakes supposed current facilities capacity is 155k bbl in around 40k sqft. So if done right, this space could easily accommodate 200k bbls per year, a new waterfront taproom, and small hotel with taps in the rooms.

They could do some fun marketing things by sending kegs to other cities in the Great Lakes region, Canada, and Europe by ship. I've met people from all across the country at the OHC taproom, who want to have a Christmas Ale or other favorite beer at the source. Combine a hotel stay here with a discounted/free Rock Hall ticket and you'll attract more tourists here. Add an RTA pass and hopefully a CVSR ticket from Downtown to that and you've got a little weekend vacation.

Make it look like traditional port buildings/warehouses, or go with some modern waterfront building designs like in Auckland or the new Cavs riverfront facility that looks like a large ship from the side.

Or go absolutely crazy and build something like the Antwerp Port House with the brewery and taproom below and hotel/offices/housing on top. This idea would be extra fun because of the Cleveland-Europe Express shipping route which goes back and forth from Cleveland to Antwerp. This is a hypothetical, so I choose this.

This is what 160k sq ft would look like here. With the Browns stadium gone, there would be over 2 million sq ft of land. So it's not like this would choke space too much.

Edited Tuesday at 07:31 PM3 days by PlanCleveland
Fixed link

2 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

Bringing this over from the Ohio City thread, and it didn't feel right to put it in the Lakefront thread...

But what if Great Lakes Brewing was actually on our Great Lake? With the Browns seemingly set on their move to Brook Park, why not make Great Lakes an ANCHOR tenant of the new lakefront development? Obviously it seems weird to have what is basically a manufacturing warehouse taking up space there and needing space for trucks and shipping, but put it next to the Port/access roads where there would be easy truck and highway access and it's not so bad. Especially if they combine it with a hotel. The planning, permitting, construction, etc. timeline could line up with the the new Shoreway construction starting in 2027 and Browns Stadium teardown in early 2029.

The site below is about 160k sqft, per @KJP , they were looking for roughly 200k in Westlake. The Brewdog site in Canal Winchester has a total building footprint of around 115k sqft, which includes their brewing facilities, taproom, and a 40 room hotel. Their max capacity at that facility is 150k barrels per year, and Great Lakes supposed current facilities capacity is 155k bbl in around 40k sqft. So if done right, this space could easily accommodate 200k bbls per year, a new waterfront taproom, and small hotel with taps in the rooms.

They could do some fun marketing things by sending kegs to other cities in the Great Lakes region, Canada, and Europe by ship. I've met people from all across the country at the OHC taproom, who want to have a Christmas Ale or other favorite beer at the source. Combine a hotel stay here with a discounted/free Rock Hall ticket and you'll attract more tourists here. Add an RTA pass and hopefully a CVSR ticket from Downtown to that and you've got a little weekend vacation.

Make it look like traditional port buildings/warehouses, or go with some modern waterfront building designs like in Auckland or the new Cavs riverfront facility that looks like a large ship from the side.

Or go absolutely crazy and build something like the Antwerp Port House with the brewery and taproom below and hotel/offices/housing on top. This idea would be extra fun because of the Cleveland-Europe Express shipping route which goes back and forth from Cleveland to Antwerp. This is a hypothetical, so I choose this.

This is what 160k sq ft would look like here. With the Browns stadium gone, there would be over 2 million sq ft of land. So it's not like this would choke space too much.

I love this idea and way of thinking. Just gift them the land already. Hell, incorporate the cruise ship/customs terminal into it. First Great Lakes beer free! That is, if anyone wants to come to the U.S. anymore. ICE will probably be waiting at the cruise ship terminal this summer.

6 minutes ago, marty15 said:

I love this idea and way of thinking. Just gift them the land already. Hell, incorporate the cruise ship/customs terminal into it. First Great Lakes beer free!

Even more marketing material.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-welcomes-first-cruise-ship-of-packed-2025-season

10k tourists arriving by cruise expected in 2025. Sounds like $250k+ in new GLBC revenue to me.

I was thinking the same thing with the land. Maybe do a cheap long term land lease with a heavy discount until the Browns Stadium site is cleared or something like that. But I also don't know how the sale/leasing of the reclaimed land works up there.

53 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said:

Even more marketing material.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-welcomes-first-cruise-ship-of-packed-2025-season

10k tourists arriving by cruise expected in 2025. Sounds like $250k+ in new GLBC revenue to me.

I was thinking the same thing with the land. Maybe do a cheap long term land lease with a heavy discount until the Browns Stadium site is cleared or something like that. But I also don't know how the sale/leasing of the reclaimed land works up there.

I think you’re onto something here. But the city really needs to be proactive. Go after Great Lakes, go after Urban Air, put up a massive Ferris wheel, try to attract a full blown aquarium, bring in all the big regional developers. We need outside the box thinking here. Throw out all the old rules.

2 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

Bringing this over from the Ohio City thread, and it didn't feel right to put it in the Lakefront thread...

But what if Great Lakes Brewing was actually on our Great Lake? With the Browns seemingly set on their move to Brook Park, why not make Great Lakes an ANCHOR tenant of the new lakefront development? Obviously it seems weird to have what is basically a manufacturing warehouse taking up space there and needing space for trucks and shipping, but put it next to the Port/access roads where there would be easy truck and highway access and it's not so bad. Especially if they combine it with a hotel. The planning, permitting, construction, etc. timeline could line up with the the new Shoreway construction starting in 2027 and Browns Stadium teardown in early 2029.

The site below is about 160k sqft, per @KJP , they were looking for roughly 200k in Westlake. The Brewdog site in Canal Winchester has a total building footprint of around 115k sqft, which includes their brewing facilities, taproom, and a 40 room hotel. Their max capacity at that facility is 150k barrels per year, and Great Lakes supposed current facilities capacity is 155k bbl in around 40k sqft. So if done right, this space could easily accommodate 200k bbls per year, a new waterfront taproom, and small hotel with taps in the rooms.

They could do some fun marketing things by sending kegs to other cities in the Great Lakes region, Canada, and Europe by ship. I've met people from all across the country at the OHC taproom, who want to have a Christmas Ale or other favorite beer at the source. Combine a hotel stay here with a discounted/free Rock Hall ticket and you'll attract more tourists here. Add an RTA pass and hopefully a CVSR ticket from Downtown to that and you've got a little weekend vacation.

Make it look like traditional port buildings/warehouses, or go with some modern waterfront building designs like in Auckland or the new Cavs riverfront facility that looks like a large ship from the side.

Or go absolutely crazy and build something like the Antwerp Port House with the brewery and taproom below and hotel/offices/housing on top. This idea would be extra fun because of the Cleveland-Europe Express shipping route which goes back and forth from Cleveland to Antwerp. This is a hypothetical, so I choose this.

This is what 160k sq ft would look like here. With the Browns stadium gone, there would be over 2 million sq ft of land. So it's not like this would choke space too much.

While a really cool idea, it's ultimately not a direction I'd like to see the City take. I'm certainly down for brewpubs and cool niche hotels, but I don't envision this area as a good fit for manufacturing. There's a reason most hip neighborhoods and touristy areas tend to have almost no manufacturing, they just don't play well together. You have some clever ideas about how to ameliorate some of the drawbacks from manufacturing, but at best any ground level space given over to a canning facility (and it realistically has to be ground level) is just underutilized space in the context of a downtown adjacent lakefront neighborhood.

I'm not sure how great an anchor tenant a canning facility is for this type of development. It's not high density employment. And it will be empty in the evenings. I assume this will turn into a more entertainment focused area with shops and restaurants. I just don't see how a canning facility functions as an anchor tenant for that kinds of development.

I also think there's just some disconnect between what Great Lakes is looking for from it's new facility, both here, and in the Scranton thread. My understanding is that they are primarily looking for a manufacturing facility. Other features, like a new brewpub are secondary to that. while I understand there are a few very cool examples GLBC could emulate, I don't think they are looking for a cute demonstration facility here, but rather a real manufacturing facility designed to let them produce more beer cheaper. They are looking to expand, not buy more goodwill locally. That's my read anyway.

Additionally, unless you are proposing this development as a replacement for their new Scranton brewpub, they will almost certainly have too many restaurants in too small an area, and they risk canobalizing their busines. Great Lakes already serves as the anchor for the (arguably) hottest neighborhood in Cleveland, asking them to also anchor downtown is asking too much of them, and risks overstretching them. GLBC has already done a lot for Cleveland.

Like I said, cool idea though, I certainly won't be upset if it ended up happening, but it's not what I'd prefer to see or think makes sense.

42 minutes ago, Ethan said:

While a really cool idea, it's ultimately not a direction I'd like to see the City take. I'm certainly down for brewpubs and cool niche hotels, but I don't envision this area as a good fit for manufacturing. There's a reason most hip neighborhoods and touristy areas tend to have almost no manufacturing, they just don't play well together. You have some clever ideas about how to ameliorate some of the drawbacks from manufacturing, but at best any ground level space given over to a canning facility (and it realistically has to be ground level) is just underutilized space in the context of a downtown adjacent lakefront neighborhood.

I'm not sure how great an anchor tenant a canning facility is for this type of development. It's not high density employment. And it will be empty in the evenings. I assume this will turn into a more entertainment focused area with shops and restaurants. I just don't see how a canning facility functions as an anchor tenant for that kinds of development.

I also think there's just some disconnect between what Great Lakes is looking for from it's new facility, both here, and in the Scranton thread. My understanding is that they are primarily looking for a manufacturing facility. Other features, like a new brewpub are secondary to that. while I understand there are a few very cool examples GLBC could emulate, I don't think they are looking for a cute demonstration facility here, but rather a real manufacturing facility designed to let them produce more beer cheaper. They are looking to expand, not buy more goodwill locally. That's my read anyway.

Additionally, unless you are proposing this development as a replacement for their new Scranton brewpub, they will almost certainly have too many restaurants in too small an area, and they risk canobalizing their busines. Great Lakes already serves as the anchor for the (arguably) hottest neighborhood in Cleveland, asking them to also anchor downtown is asking too much of them, and risks overstretching them. GLBC has already done a lot for Cleveland.

Like I said, cool idea though, I certainly won't be upset if it ended up happening, but it's not what I'd prefer to see or think makes sense.

The Fat Heads style production/beer hall in Middleburg would be a good model. Esp in that location. Would be a good blending of light industrial/port activity, into a new neighborhood.

So I was digging around trying to find the Hopkins expansion plan from 25 years ago that involved the demolition of the I-X Center and I found these dreamschemes of mine from 20 years ago.....

I'd love to see a first class aquarium/Great Lakes museum where the stadium sits. If we could pull this off along with retail somewhere within the city, Cleveland could truly be the region's premier tourist destination.

18 hours ago, Ethan said:

While a really cool idea, it's ultimately not a direction I'd like to see the City take. I'm certainly down for brewpubs and cool niche hotels, but I don't envision this area as a good fit for manufacturing. There's a reason most hip neighborhoods and touristy areas tend to have almost no manufacturing, they just don't play well together. You have some clever ideas about how to ameliorate some of the drawbacks from manufacturing, but at best any ground level space given over to a canning facility (and it realistically has to be ground level) is just underutilized space in the context of a downtown adjacent lakefront neighborhood.

I'm not sure how great an anchor tenant a canning facility is for this type of development. It's not high density employment. And it will be empty in the evenings. I assume this will turn into a more entertainment focused area with shops and restaurants. I just don't see how a canning facility functions as an anchor tenant for that kinds of development.

I also think there's just some disconnect between what Great Lakes is looking for from it's new facility, both here, and in the Scranton thread. My understanding is that they are primarily looking for a manufacturing facility. Other features, like a new brewpub are secondary to that. while I understand there are a few very cool examples GLBC could emulate, I don't think they are looking for a cute demonstration facility here, but rather a real manufacturing facility designed to let them produce more beer cheaper. They are looking to expand, not buy more goodwill locally. That's my read anyway.

Additionally, unless you are proposing this development as a replacement for their new Scranton brewpub, they will almost certainly have too many restaurants in too small an area, and they risk canobalizing their busines. Great Lakes already serves as the anchor for the (arguably) hottest neighborhood in Cleveland, asking them to also anchor downtown is asking too much of them, and risks overstretching them. GLBC has already done a lot for Cleveland.

Like I said, cool idea though, I certainly won't be upset if it ended up happening, but it's not what I'd prefer to see or think makes sense.

I think you have a point here (though a lakefront Great Lakes Brewing is still a really cool idea). I would much rather see them build it at the lakefront-ish site at E 72nd chosen for the Urban Land Institute competition. They could start out with some commercial uses and maybe incorporate housing over time. It's location next to I-90 would probably be helpful for logistics.

The stadium site has the potential to deliver something far more beneficial to the city and the public, especially considering how little of the lakefront is accessible at all.