Timing wise, the attempted Friday News Dump this was supposed to be seems absolutely bizarre to me.

 

The Cavs just fully committed to Downtown Cleveland, the Guardians are in the ALCS and are upgrading an arguably already above average (and downtown) stadium even further, and the lakefront plans just took a large step forward.

 

Meanwhile, you have a floundering football team that may end up being completely hamstrung by the salary cap for the next half decade, character issues on the personnel (I'll leave it at that), and an ownership group that seemingly negotiated in bad faith with Cleveland while frequently touting its success with Columbus...and one who has publicly requested over a billion dollars in a city/county that needs a new jail, courthouse, airport, and several other large scale projects. 

 

To me, I don't think public sentiment towards the team and ownership could be any lower. I'm very interested in what the funding proposals will be for this, including highway reconfigurations. A lot of unanswered questions right now.

18 minutes ago, Dino said:

This isn't the end of the world, and it won't be a death blow to downtown in my opinion.  Only about a third of NFL stadiums are in a downtown, and about a third of NFL stadiums are not in the City proper.  

It's certainly not a death blow, but it would be better if the Browns only wanted their stadium.  But if the Haslams truly want to make some sort of big investment that pulls stuff out from downtown, that damages the region.  Many other NFL regions are growing faster and have more public funds, and it's STILL bad for them when this happens.  It's not like it's good for Atlanta that the Braves moved, for example (and I know they're baseball not football, but it's the same grift).  This is another case of greed and selfishness at the expense of the public.  So while it may not be to the extent that Modell did it, this IS a move that can be compared as they're two of a kind. 

I would hope Bibb, Ronayne, and DeWine have had multiple conversations and are on the same page. Absolutely no funding from city, county, and state barring an enormous profit-sharing arrangement. And that should apply to all costs related to the stadium build, including highway and utilities. Every dollar we invest, three return to our coffers.

Otherwise, let Jimmy build it himself or move them to San Antonio or London and let's be DONE with this s**t. 

1 hour ago, YABO713 said:

If what Bibb is saying is true, and the Haslams pivoted after years of negotiations, that's a bit f'd

Nothing new for NFL owners recently. The Rams were negotiating with St Louis for about 2 years after they had decided to move to LA behind the scenes. It's a shame being worth billions of dollars isn't enough for these people. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DBPOeoyJ3Kl/

I know Haslam has a lot of money to waste but tbh, I felt that once those detailed renderings were released his mind was made up. He sat down with Mayor Bibb afterwards to save face and give off the impression that "we tried our hardest, and exhausted every option." I wouldn't be surprised if what Mayor Bibb said was true, Haslam presented his wish list for a stadium early on with no dome and changed his mind at a much later date because he knows Cleveland wouldn't be able to counter properly in time. 

20 minutes ago, TBideon said:

I would hope Bibb, Ronayne, and DeWine have had multiple conversations and are on the same page. Absolutely no funding from city, county, and state barring an enormous profit-sharing arrangement. And that should apply to all costs related to the stadium build, including highway and utilities. Every dollar we invest, three return to our coffers.

Otherwise, let Jimmy build it himself or move them to San Antonio or London and let's be DONE with this s**t. 

He's going to get state funding imo, it all just depends on how much, especially with the Bengals looming. 

29 minutes ago, brownsfan1226 said:

Timing wise, the attempted Friday News Dump this was supposed to be seems absolutely bizarre to me.

 

The Cavs just fully committed to Downtown Cleveland, the Guardians are in the ALCS and are upgrading an arguably already above average (and downtown) stadium even further, and the lakefront plans just took a large step forward.

 

Meanwhile, you have a floundering football team that may end up being completely hamstrung by the salary cap for the next half decade, character issues on the personnel (I'll leave it at that), and an ownership group that seemingly negotiated in bad faith with Cleveland while frequently touting its success with Columbus...and one who has publicly requested over a billion dollars in a city/county that needs a new jail, courthouse, airport, and several other large scale projects. 

 

To me, I don't think public sentiment towards the team and ownership could be any lower. I'm very interested in what the funding proposals will be for this, including highway reconfigurations. A lot of unanswered questions right now.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Now more than ever, I'm praying that Cleveland lands the NWSL team and builds the proposed stadium DOWNTOWN with RTA ACCESS and continues their commitment to actually growing and investing in the city. Then if the city and county offer to invest a little in the soccer stadium, the optics/dichotomy couldn't be more clear, and I would laugh.

Edited October 17, 2024Oct 17 by Geowizical

11 minutes ago, downtownjoe said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DBPOeoyJ3Kl/

I think this is futile but I am all for the whole affair becoming a total s**t show in every which way and being as difficult for Jimmy Haslam as possible. 

15 minutes ago, downtownjoe said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DBPOeoyJ3Kl/

If I'm being honest, mostly out of fear for the future, I wish they would not take this action when he's just moving next to the airport. 

 

If this were to truly get tested and found it's way all up to the current supreme court, I'm not sure the law stands. Then that opens the door for increased leverage on the side of other teams around the state to get what they want or flee. The Guardians are going to be taken over by some PE bros with no ties to the city in the next few years, and may ask for a new stadium, or else, as the current lease expires in 2036.

I agree. I don't think the law is constitutional to begin with.  but it's also pathetic. 

59 minutes ago, brownsfan1226 said:

Timing wise, the attempted Friday News Dump this was supposed to be seems absolutely bizarre to me.

 

The Cavs just fully committed to Downtown Cleveland, the Guardians are in the ALCS and are upgrading an arguably already above average (and downtown) stadium even further, and the lakefront plans just took a large step forward.

 

Meanwhile, you have a floundering football team that may end up being completely hamstrung by the salary cap for the next half decade, character issues on the personnel (I'll leave it at that), and an ownership group that seemingly negotiated in bad faith with Cleveland while frequently touting its success with Columbus...and one who has publicly requested over a billion dollars in a city/county that needs a new jail, courthouse, airport, and several other large scale projects. 

 

To me, I don't think public sentiment towards the team and ownership could be any lower. I'm very interested in what the funding proposals will be for this, including highway reconfigurations. A lot of unanswered questions right now.

Dont forget about the multipurpose professional soccer stadium proposed to go downtown

On 10/13/2024 at 12:53 PM, cadmen said:

Yep, that's how it works. The NFL selling us something we don't want because it comes with something we DO want, which is football. It almost feels like that scenario where the dope dealer (NFL) gives away the first hit (a team) then after we're hooked we end up giving him enough money to buy himself a nice McMansion (dome stadium) in the 'burbs. Meanwhile we're addicted to the drug but now we're just poorer for the experience. 

 

I say this as a hardcore fan all of my life who is definitely hooked on sports. The beauty and emotionsl rush of the game has got me. I'm not even trying to get clean. There's more than one kind of addiction baby and most of us our hooked on something.

Gave up watching sports over a decade ago. Fed up with billionaires being over-subsidized by taxpayers. So much easier to watch highlights on demand. I have so much more time available to me, and my heart rate and waistline are much better off.

 

Bibb: Haslams, Browns ‘abandoned’ Cleveland
By Ken Prendergast / October 17, 2024

 

An obviously exasperated Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb today claimed the owners of the Cleveland Browns football “abandoned” downtown for suburban Brook Park, in a move due to be announced by the team as early as tomorrow. But Cuyahoga County Executive Chris Ronayne said he wasn’t ready to concede defeat yet.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/10/17/bibb-haslams-browns-abandoned-cleveland/

@KJP Thanks again for taking the lead on all information for this development.   At the end of all of this I come away that this is nothing more than a money grab by the Haslam Group.  The amount of wasted money to entice the city with their original lakefront development plan that they developed with remaining on the lakefront seems cruel.  Cleveland and football is synonymous at the current location.  Cleveland Browns fans were never about luxury and comfort. We were always there as a middle class community that fights no matter what the conditions are.   This move to Brook Park changes the dynamics of a team.  It is just another NFL team with no soul or understanding what makes the Browns whom they are.   When can we get owners that truly understand our community?

Ha, had to re-find my password, but figured this was worth it. It was pretty clear that Haslem has had his mind made up for a long time and was just acting like he was actually discussing with the city in good faith so he could later say he "tried." If Haslem was truly discussing with the city for years then suddenly shifted, makes you wonder what new "shiny" caught his attention. Making rash decisions because something new caught his attention is completely on brand for him (firing Chud, drafting Johnny Football, ousting Baker for Watson, etc, etc).

 

If Haslem wants to pay for the whole thing himself, by all means, have fun with your Cybertruck inspired vanity project. Just a matter of time until people are complaining that the "ballpark village" ends up being an Applebee's in a sea of parking (that costs $30 on non-game days). Meanwhile the Cavs and Guardians continue to invest in the city and the areas around their stadiums, and are the teams worthy of the region's support. The likes of Watson and Haslem deserve each other.

Edited October 17, 2024Oct 17 by CLEeng
Typo

Question — how does the Brook Park Rapid Station connect in to all of this?  And will it need expanded? 

 

And wasn’t there talk of having the Amtrak 3C  train stop here too?

3 hours ago, tastybunns said:

How does Brook Park have any money to fund any TIF or TOD projects to and from airport to stadium to downtown? This will ruin them unless the county and state steps in, or the Haz-beens pay for it all. The browns already have the land, but when they start releasing the billets, Brook Park may want to take a look in the mirror and not only think about their money's worth, but maybe more about what they're taking away.

 

Pretty simple really. Any new tax revenue generated by the stadium (income taxes, property taxes, admission taxes, parking taxes, etc) is fair game for being run through the city coffers and used to service debt over an extended period like 30 years. That's true that the city may not have the debt ceiling that's necessary to support such huge debt issues, so they will probably partner with another agency like the the port authority.

5 minutes ago, MuRrAy HiLL said:

Question — how does the Brook Park Rapid Station connect in to all of this?  And will it need expanded? 

 

And wasn’t there talk of having the Amtrak 3C  train stop here too?

 

There could potentially be a infill rapid station outside of the airport tunnel entrance, at the top of the RTA rail ramp. An Amtrak station could be built there too, but it would have to be built on a separate track considering the amount of freight train traffic through here. 

29 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Pretty simple really. Any new tax revenue generated by the stadium (income taxes, property taxes, admission taxes, parking taxes, etc) is fair game for being run through the city coffers and used to service debt over an extended period like 30 years. That's true that the city may not have the debt ceiling that's necessary to support such huge debt issues, so they will probably partner with another agency like the the port authority.

Isn’t this pretty risky for Brook Park? Who is on the hook if the TIF doesn’t generate enough income? I found an old article in Crains that said Crocker Park has a TIF that generates $5M in revenue a year. That wouldn’t be anywhere near enough. 

22 minutes ago, coneflower said:

Isn’t this pretty risky for Brook Park? Who is on the hook if the TIF doesn’t generate enough income? I found an old article in Crains that said Crocker Park has a TIF that generates $5M in revenue a year. That wouldn’t be anywhere near enough. 

 

I covered the Crocker Park development for Sun News. The $5 million per year was from project-specific tax revenues to pay for the free parking garages and street/sewer infrastructure which were financed through the Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority. John Carney was a development partner with Bob Stark and Carney served on the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority board, so the developers went elsewhere for the debt financiers to avoid a conflict of interest. No other development components were TIF financed because it wasn't needed. Standard bank and equity financing paid for the rest of the project from rents and leases.

A TIF is a complicated mechanism but essentially the economics are 15-30 years of relief from property taxes and an upfront boost in borrowing capacity. In the grand scheme of a stadium project, it’s a drop in the bucket. You can’t barely make a dent in the capital stack from a TIF, and a TIF is probably all Brook Park can offer.

Edited October 18, 2024Oct 18 by mu2010

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Pretty simple really. Any new tax revenue generated by the stadium (income taxes, property taxes, admission taxes, parking taxes, etc) is fair game for being run through the city coffers and used to service debt over an extended period like 30 years. That's true that the city may not have the debt ceiling that's necessary to support such huge debt issues, so they will probably partner with another agency like the the port authority.

But some of the new tax revenue is going to be needed for additional cops during games and events, upkeep infrastructure, city cleaners for all the garbage everywhere on the streets after the games, and such. There is definitely an expense hosting major events by city. I know it’s probably not an insane amount but it isn’t nothing either. 

6 hours ago, goozer said:

People crapping on Haslam for making a $2.5B investment 1/2 a mile from Cleveland proper?   Seriously?    The city has been aware of the desire for a stadium for 7 years, so to not lay any blame at the public leadership is a big mistake, IMO.   Clearly this whole topic has various shades of gray, but to compare Haslam to Model is completely misguided and unjust.   

 

To each there own.

 

Downvote this all you want, but caling a spade a spade here.

 

Haslam is a snake and deserving of zero sympathy. Entitled, crooked, egotistical, and also downright stupid in his personnel decisions. 

Edited October 18, 2024Oct 18 by mu2010

4 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Bibb: Haslams, Browns ‘abandoned’ Cleveland
By Ken Prendergast / October 17, 2024

 

An obviously exasperated Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb today claimed the owners of the Cleveland Browns football “abandoned” downtown for suburban Brook Park, in a move due to be announced by the team as early as tomorrow. But Cuyahoga County Executive Chris Ronayne said he wasn’t ready to concede defeat yet.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/10/17/bibb-haslams-browns-abandoned-cleveland/

We'll see if the deal falls apart as Bibb mentions.  Ronayne - you and the County are on the clock. DeWine is most likely a yes as Jimmy would not have gone public if he did not get the go ahead wink in private from his buddy DeWine.

29 minutes ago, Willo said:

We'll see if the deal falls apart as Bibb mentions.  Ronayne - you and the County are on the clock. DeWine is most likely a yes as Jimmy would not have gone public if he did not get the go ahead wink in private from his buddy DeWine.

I get the impression Ronayne might fold somewhat and concede at least the potential continuation of the sin tax as opposed to sacks of cash, he was non committal in his comments I felt not to wash his hands of this altogether. As for the city, if a viable Lakefront masterplan can emerge including the priority of repurposing Burke and they can reiterate their commitment to the other two teams and their desire to develop Downtown, I think they can survive this but that's a lot of ifs.

 

I think the stadium gets done by hook or crook now but the surrounding development I'm less convinced of. My main concern is the continued disinvestment and drip effect of ditching Downtown for the suburbs and any wins are just stemming the tide. It makes us look every bit the backwards stagnant rust belt market we get stereotyped as. The current stadium should be demolished the second the lease is up IMO, I don't want us to end up like St. Louis with a white elephant scarring the landscape and if it leaves them scrambling and playing in Columbus for a year or two I couldn't give a shiney s**te given the way they've acted.  It's not the end of the world, but there is definitely concern for me that this is part of a domino effect to come.

 

The area around Brook Park is bleak. An airport, industrial units, railyards, highway overpasses, ratty looking titty bars. Yeah I think a stadium used 10 times a year fits the rather desolate run down vibe of the area. Expensive apartments, upscale restaurants and class A office space is a much harder sell for me. Wouldn't even be surprised if they eventually say f**k it due to costs, lack of interest in the development aspect and they just build it bare bones even without a roof and they sit content with the extra parking revenue.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2024Oct 18 by snakebite

5 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

If I'm being honest, mostly out of fear for the future, I wish they would not take this action when he's just moving next to the airport. 

 

If this were to truly get tested and found it's way all up to the current supreme court, I'm not sure the law stands. Then that opens the door for increased leverage on the side of other teams around the state to get what they want or flee. The Guardians are going to be taken over by some PE bros with no ties to the city in the next few years, and may ask for a new stadium, or else, as the current lease expires in 2036.

There's also the problem of just throwing money to lawyers. Regardless of the outcome, the region does not benefit from a potentially expensive legal battle. If the stadium still ends up in Brook Park, then the City will have wasted money, and the Haslams will have less money to make things nice. Even if they succeed, it effectively adds a good bit of money to the renovation. 

 

Hopefully any legal battles wrap up quickly and relatively cheaply, regardless of outcome. A long protracted legal name benefits no one. 

Some people are not blessed with self-awareness and introspection

 

 

 

19 minutes ago, snakebite said:

I get the impression Ronayne might fold somewhat and concede at least the potential continuation of the sin tax as opposed to sacks of cash, he was non committal in his comments I felt not to wash his hands of this altogether. As for the city, if a viable Lakefront masterplan can emerge including the priority of repurposing Burke and they can reiterate their commitment to the other two teams and their desire to develop Downtown, I think they can survive this but that's a lot of ifs.

 

I think the stadium gets done by hook or crook now but the surrounding development I'm less convinced of. My main concern is the continued disinvestment and drip effect of ditching Downtown for the suburbs and any wins are just stemming the tide. It makes us look every bit the backwards stagnant rust belt market we get stereotyped as. The current stadium should be demolished the second the lease is up IMO, I don't want us to end up like St. Louis with a white elephant scarring the landscape and if it leaves them scrambling and playing in Columbus for a year or two I couldn't give a shiney s**te given the way they've acted.  It's not the end of the world, but there is definitely concern for me that this is part of a domino effect to come.

 

The area around Brook Park is bleak. An airport, industrial units, railyards, highway overpasses, ratty looking titty bars. Yeah I think a stadium used 10 times a year fits the rather desolate run down vibe of the area. Expensive apartments, upscale restaurants and class A office space is a much harder sell for me. Wouldn't even be surprised if they eventually say f**k it due to costs, lack of interest in the development aspect and they just build it bare bones even without a roof and they sit content with the extra parking revenue.

 

 

I don’t think Downtown will just die because the Browns are leaving. And if I’ve learned anything… a plan is only a plan until the money comes. The City is actually getting the money for this plan and had to have known that the Browns moving to BP was a possibility. Reimagining the lakefront without a stadium is something which no one in the last close to 100 years has had the opportunity to do. With the added infrastructure connecting the lakefront to the city, we’ll just have to see what comes of it. My bet is that we’ll all miss the memories of the old Browns and the madness the current Browns have brought us over the years on the lakefront. There will be a stretch where the lakefront is barren without the stadium; but my guess is within five years of the current stadium being demolished, something worthy of a lakefront city will be in its place.

4 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

I don’t think Downtown will just die because the Browns are leaving. And if I’ve learned anything… a plan is only a plan until the money comes. The City is actually getting the money for this plan and had to have known that the Browns moving to BP was a possibility. Reimagining the lakefront without a stadium is something which no one in the last close to 100 years has had the opportunity to do. With the added infrastructure connecting the lakefront to the city, we’ll just have to see what comes of it. My bet is that we’ll all miss the memories of the old Browns and the madness the current Browns have brought us over the years on the lakefront. There will be a stretch where the lakefront is barren without the stadium; but my guess is within five years of the current stadium being demolished, something worthy of a lakefront city will be in its place.

The irony of all of this lakefront talk is that it was Haslam that really initiated the lastest iteration of plans.

35 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

The irony of all of this lakefront talk is that it was Haslam that really initiated the lastest iteration of plans.

 

Yup!

well clearly this move was the plan all along. and i understand it — the swath of post-industrial property and the parking get is too juicy to pass up. no available site in cle could match that.

 

tbh i can’t wait to see the mistake by the lake II removed and the prime waterfront redeveloped.

 

and let’s not kid ourselves, we’ll still torture ourselves following the brookpark browns. 🤡

 

just trying to look to the upsides here.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, snakebite said:

I get the impression Ronayne might fold somewhat and concede at least the potential continuation of the sin tax as opposed to sacks of cash, he was non committal in his comments I felt not to wash his hands of this altogether. As for the city, if a viable Lakefront masterplan can emerge including the priority of repurposing Burke and they can reiterate their commitment to the other two teams and their desire to develop Downtown, I think they can survive this but that's a lot of ifs.

 

I think the stadium gets done by hook or crook now but the surrounding development I'm less convinced of. My main concern is the continued disinvestment and drip effect of ditching Downtown for the suburbs and any wins are just stemming the tide. It makes us look every bit the backwards stagnant rust belt market we get stereotyped as. The current stadium should be demolished the second the lease is up IMO, I don't want us to end up like St. Louis with a white elephant scarring the landscape and if it leaves them scrambling and playing in Columbus for a year or two I couldn't give a shiney s**te given the way they've acted.  It's not the end of the world, but there is definitely concern for me that this is part of a domino effect to come.

 

The area around Brook Park is bleak. An airport, industrial units, railyards, highway overpasses, ratty looking titty bars. Yeah I think a stadium used 10 times a year fits the rather desolate run down vibe of the area. Expensive apartments, upscale restaurants and class A office space is a much harder sell for me. Wouldn't even be surprised if they eventually say f**k it due to costs, lack of interest in the development aspect and they just build it bare bones even without a roof and they sit content with the extra parking revenue.

 

 

Spot on. There is no way to spiff that area up - the area is what it is.  I recall when using the rental car shuttle and watchiing visitors smirk and comment on the dreary surrounding area from the airport to the off-site rental car facility.  I always wondered why Cleveland PR folks never realized this.  At the least the plans are to return the rental car facility to the airport grounds.

Edited October 18, 2024Oct 18 by Willo

10 hours ago, cle_guy90 said:

But some of the new tax revenue is going to be needed for additional cops during games and events, upkeep infrastructure, city cleaners for all the garbage everywhere on the streets after the games, and such. There is definitely an expense hosting major events by city. I know it’s probably not an insane amount but it isn’t nothing either. 

 

If I was the city of Brook Park and they're going to be part owners of any stadium, I'd charge an advance event fee to the sponsor of said event to cover the cost of set-up, security, clean-up based on projected attendance, with a follow-on escalation fee based on the actual attendance. No discount since the city would have to have workers assembled based on the projected numbers, but that could be adjusted based on advance bookings something like 48 hours prior to the start of the event.

As for The Brook Park site, would anyone really want to live next to an airport if you had an money to spend on an upscale condominium or apartment?  I just cant picture this concept ever to gain traction.  It reminds me of taking two steps backwards from the momentum of getting people back to the heart of Cleveland. More urban flight

5 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

As for The Brook Park site, would anyone really want to live next to an airport if you had an money to spend on an upscale condominium or apartment?  I just cant picture this concept ever to gain traction.  It reminds me of taking two steps backwards from the momentum of getting people back to the heart of Cleveland. More urban flight

 

Nobody on Urban Ohio would want to live there but I'm sure there's plenty of people in the area that would be okay with it. Shoot, there's condos at Charlotte Motor Speedway. I think we get in our echo chamber a bit too much on here at times, not everyone is an urbanist, and if jimmy makes it into J-World I'm sure the attraction will be there. Maybe not in 1-2 years, but longer term it could turn into something. 

15 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Nobody on Urban Ohio would want to live there but I'm sure there's plenty of people in the area that would be okay with it. Shoot, there's condos at Charlotte Motor Speedway. I think we get in our echo chamber a bit too much on here at times, not everyone is an urbanist, and if jimmy makes it into J-World I'm sure the attraction will be there. Maybe not in 1-2 years, but longer term it could turn into something. 

 

It's true about getting in an echo chamber, but most upwardly mobile suburbanites I know pine for "peace and quiet" in places like Geauga and Medina counties. 

BTW, does this separate thread need to exist? The name "Huntington Bank Field" will move with the team to Brook Park, if that facility is built. Semantics, I know.

38 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

As for The Brook Park site, would anyone really want to live next to an airport if you had amoney to spend on an upscale condominium or apartment?  I just cant picture this concept ever to gain traction.  It reminds me of taking two steps backwards from the momentum of getting people back to the heart of Cleveland. More urban flight

I would consider living there if I were younger.  It’s very close to where I (and lots of other people) work at NASA. Plus it would be super convenient for taking flights and getting to Ohio City and downtown on the Red Line.

 

The airport noise perpendicular to the runways is much less of a concern than in the flight paths in my opinion.  Plane noise in Lakewood and especially Olmsted Falls seems much worse to me than at GRC, even though they’re farther away.

It would be a horrible place to live.  No way to sugar coat it even though many posters are trying to do their best.  Certainly nothing upscale.  I still predict it will be a sea of parking with one Motel 6 at the far end of the parking lot.

Is the team and/or Brook Park still making an announcement or having any sort of press conference today?

11 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

As for The Brook Park site, would anyone really want to live next to an airport if you had an money to spend on an upscale condominium or apartment?  I just cant picture this concept ever to gain traction.  It reminds me of taking two steps backwards from the momentum of getting people back to the heart of Cleveland. More urban flight

If we had 50% more people in this region I think it'd be a great move. Build a huge mall and hotel complex with some apartments and long term hotel options with direct indoor connections to the airport like you see at many large airports in Europe and Asia. But we are 50 years away from that if everything goes perfectly. Now we're just going back to spreading out our limited resources again. 

 

Patriot Place has about 2.5X the population within 25 miles and direct trains to both Boston and Providence. Yet is a third of the size of Crocker Park and has less than 300 hotel rooms. If this development is built at all, and if the businesses can even afford to operate on non gamedays, I'll be shocked. 

I look forward to the City continually readjusting its development focus on housing and its associated amenities for the city center rather than parking lots for the weekend suburban sports invasion.

 

I mean it's only natural to expect a family that made its money serving a freeway economy would head to a freeway suburb.

 

Maybe they'll help RTA with a Pilot Flying J Red Line station?

 

Good riddance.

18 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

It would be a horrible place to live.  No way to sugar coat it even though many posters are trying to do their best.  Certainly nothing upscale.  I still predict it will be a sea of parking with one Motel 6 at the far end of the parking lot.

 

It's like The Richfield Coliseum only with airport noise instead of a national park.

As an outsider looking in (soon to be insider), I dont see CLE as stagnant. Over the years ive seen CLE thrive despite population loss or businesses relocate to the burbs. Too often we see things in CLE as being mutually exclusive. That to build one thing means the failure of another. In this case it allows for the development of the Lakefront into something more. If the present stadium goes and Burke is decomissioned, think of the possibilites this means for the lakefront. The Guardians and Cavs are basically year-round attractions since they overlap. Downtown population continues to grow as well as the surrounding environs. More downtown and near downtown population growth is 100% every day of the year - not just half a dozen Sundays from September thru December. At the end of the day, if a new stadium is built in BP, it will at least re-develop an eyesore near the airport. I definitely can see hotel development. The airport area needs nearby hotels. In all my travels, cities much smaller than CLE have much better hotel access near airport. Residential may be a different story, but if you figure a way to incorporate residential into the fabric of the team/stadium, there might be something to that. Such as tying season tickets into condo purchases....sorry for the incoherent rambling but im typing on subway lol

I would be much more upset if the Guardians or Cavs were moving to this location for obvious reasons.  Would prefer that the Browns stay downtown but definitely less upset about the move.  Just hate the location and of course the possibility the Haslam is going to fleece the public to build this whether it be state or county money.  If he builds it with all his own money I'll buy season tickets.

34 minutes ago, brownsfan1226 said:

Is the team and/or Brook Park still making an announcement or having any sort of press conference today?

 

So far, nothing has been teased. But I didn't get a heads-up about the mayor's presser yesterday until about 30 minutes before. And when the Haslams released their Brook Park vision, it just suddenly showed up in my e-mail and on social media. So we shall see....

Y'know, as much as this release pissed everyone off, I think this website got more foot traffic than when Sherwin Williams's HQ groundbreaking was a go. I don't think I've seen so many users in a given topic at a time. That's a win in itself 🤣 

Edited October 18, 2024Oct 18 by tastybunns

9 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

So far, nothing has been teased. But I didn't get a heads-up about the mayor's presser yesterday until about 30 minutes before. And when the Haslams released their Brook Park vision, it just suddenly showed up in my e-mail and on social media. So we shall see....

 

The Mayor of BP was on 92.3 this morning. He said it was 'on the 50 yard line'. I couldn't find the recording but he was on around 8:15A or so. He seems like a pretty reasonable person who's been thrown into this mess. Very careful with his words.

10 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

The Mayor of BP was on 92.3 this morning. He said it was 'on the 50 yard line'. I couldn't find the recording but he was on around 8:15A or so. He seems like a pretty reasonable person who's been thrown into this mess. Very careful with his words.

Who knows.  Cannot recall the details but it might end up that the same thing happens here that happen in Chicago.  The Bears were pretty much all set to move to an old race track in suburban Arlington Heights and then the whole deal fell through when they started working out the details, and now they are back touting a dome in downtown Chicago.

Edited October 18, 2024Oct 18 by Htsguy