18 hours ago, coneflower said:

 

The city reports Browns games on the lakefront equate to $30M in economic activity annually (just .08% of the county’s GDP) and $10M in tax revenue a year. That’s not nothing, but that kind of ROI does not warrant $500M to $1.2B+ in public subsidies plus all sorts of ongoing costs between maintenance and police.

What percent is the $30M of The City of Cleveland’s GDP? 
 

Secondly, if that level of public subsidy isn’t warranted in Cleveland (which I agree it shouldn’t be to that amount) then it surely isn’t warranted in BP! 

An enjoyable read...

 

A new stadium proposal by HKS Architects and Jimmy Haslam in Cleveland is an architectural and cultural failure

https://www.archpaper.com/2024/11/stadium-proposal-hks-architects-cleveland/

Excellent article. A must read.

Jimmy is still trying to work his magic except we still don't know where all that money will come from. I'm betting nowhere. 

 

It kills me that crooks and charlatans like Trump and Haslam can rise to the highest levels of power. I guess slickness does pay.

7 hours ago, KJP said:

An enjoyable read...

 

A new stadium proposal by HKS Architects and Jimmy Haslam in Cleveland is an architectural and cultural failure/

KJP Thank you!!  Please send to this to everyone in your Rolodex - to include the Haslams/HKS/Populous...Bibb, Ronayne, and Huang should use this for their ongoing talking points.

Brilliant.  Only a native Clevelander could capture the situation like that. Bammmm!

 

THIS:

"..At least in the roaring 1920s, robber barons were competing to see who could create more civic assets, generating morsels of public good here and there. (Just head 10 minutes east of downtown to see Rafael Viñoly’s new $350 million addition to the Cleveland Museum of Art that houses an impressively large collection, free and open to the public to this day.) But today’s billionaire class seems to have different priorities: The Cleveland Browns are dead, and Jimmy Haslam has killed them..."

and

"...Certainly, Haslam’s latest choice to uplift a beloved civic symbol to an airport parking lot is the latest icing on the cake after a long list of decisions he and the team made that left Clevelanders pissed off. From the decision to trade out draft picks for an unprecedented $230 million guaranteed contract to a quarterback who today has more sexual assault settlements than touchdown throws, to getting embarrassed in the playoffs by the team who hosed them in that trade, to now getting stadiumcucked by Steve Ballmer: It’s so over..."

and

"...All in all, the whole thing lacks any particular identity, which is admittedly hard to do in a stadium, but if the project is located close to or integrated within a city context; that city context helps to do so. Without that context, it just looks like a suburban Walmart in a gaming PC costume—and the inside will have all the bells and whistles of modern NFL game entertainment: 5 seconds of pop music between every down, tickers of the sportsbook over/unders, and all the latest monsters of line-go-up culture. The only safe bet is that all the little mens urinals will each have their own little walls between every little fixture so that absolutely no one thinks you might be gay..."

Edited November 28, 2024Nov 28 by Willo

The Haslam PR machine is running out of dupes to push their BP dome and parking lot.  Now today it seems they are using the Pain Dealer's aging and out of touch editorial board - via their Opinion section (who knew they pretended there is an distinction in thier rag) to comically praise the Haslams - with special attention given to Queen Dee Haslam who is crowned as a "visionary" in what reads like it was written by HSG interns.

 

"...the idea of a domed stadium out near the airport that Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam have been floating. A modern, covered, room-temperature dome where I could park nearby, walk inside and watch the Browns play in a place where I wouldn’t get rained or snowed on and my moustache wouldn’t freeze in the icy winds of December and January. And, yes … where I wouldn’t freeze my butt off. Sounds mighty fine to me.

But for their trouble, the Haslams have been heaped with abuse and insults from various corners of Cleveland leadership and media, which is sort of a Cleveland tradition toward the owners of its professional sports teams. So, I thought perhaps they deserve a word of support from someone longing to be warm when, as Gordon Lightfoot sang, the gales of November come early...

"..The Haslams are proposing that we go big, and the least city leaders and others can do is lean into trying to make it work, instead of responding with the time-honored Cleveland response to visionaries: “No.”"

 

The writer - Ted Diadiun(?) - who says at age 78 he longs to watch the Browns in warm comfort and not freeze his butt off (from his heated car to heated walkway to heated dome seat) should just retire to the nearest Vitalia senior community and watch from the community teevee lounge. 

 

While we purposely did not add a PeeDee hyperlink we did find an older Scene story providing some background on this unknown (to us) opinion contributor:

https://www.clevescene.com/news/ted-diadiuns-prodigiously-ignorant-worldview-should-be-on-life-support-not-on-clevelandcom-33459796

 

 

Edited December 1, 2024Dec 1 by Willo

All these column inches, tweets, radio rants are redundant at this point. Until someone from HSG comes up with a viable financial plan as regards to the funding of the project, everything is moot.

Edited December 1, 2024Dec 1 by snakebite

 

interesting video from an outsiders perspective of the city. I froze my ass off at the Denver Broncos 87 championship game loss. I normally don’t post in this thread it tends to go sideways. This game was classic Cleveland. Thank you for the memories🧡
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8FzBzGiXpI

Since comfort is his issue, I did a quick search. The average high in Cleveland in December is 41 degrees. The average high in Buffalo is 35, in Green Bay it is 32, Pittsburgh is 43, Foxborough is 41, and 37 in Chicago. 
 

According to this, our stadium is not even the coldest, windiest or snowiest NFL stadium!

6 hours ago, Willo said:

The Haslam PR machine is running out of dupes to push their BP dome and parking lot.  Now today it seems they are using the Pain Dealer's aging and out of touch editorial board - via their Opinion section (who knew they pretended there is an distinction in thier rag) to comically praise the Haslams - with special attention given to Queen Dee Haslam who is crowned as a "visionary" in what reads like it was written by HSG interns.

 

"...the idea of a domed stadium out near the airport that Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam have been floating. A modern, covered, room-temperature dome where I could park nearby, walk inside and watch the Browns play in a place where I wouldn’t get rained or snowed on and my moustache wouldn’t freeze in the icy winds of December and January. And, yes … where I wouldn’t freeze my butt off. Sounds mighty fine to me.

But for their trouble, the Haslams have been heaped with abuse and insults from various corners of Cleveland leadership and media, which is sort of a Cleveland tradition toward the owners of its professional sports teams. So, I thought perhaps they deserve a word of support from someone longing to be warm when, as Gordon Lightfoot sang, the gales of November come early...

"..The Haslams are proposing that we go big, and the least city leaders and others can do is lean into trying to make it work, instead of responding with the time-honored Cleveland response to visionaries: “No.”"

 

The writer - Ted Diadiun(?) - who says at age 78 he longs to watch the Browns in warm comfort and not freeze his butt off (from his heated car to heated walkway to heated dome seat) should just retire to the nearest Vitalia senior community and watch from the community teevee lounge. 

 

While we purposely did not add a PeeDee hyperlink we did find an older Scene story providing some background on this unknown (to us) opinion contributor:

https://www.clevescene.com/news/ted-diadiuns-prodigiously-ignorant-worldview-should-be-on-life-support-not-on-clevelandcom-33459796

 

 

"..The Haslams are proposing that we go big, and the least city leaders and others can do is lean into trying to make it work, instead of responding with the time-honored Cleveland response to visionaries: “No.”

why in the absolute hell should Cleveland get behind this project that surely takes away tax revenue and frankly other events from RMFH and patrons of W6 and E4. Gimme a freakin break with these city hating people

Not the forum for it, but Diadun is a hack. Him being in support of the dome project is yet one more thing he's on the wrong side of. 

Nick Castele, a reporter who is not a hack, mentioned JobsOhio as a potential source of funding for the new stadium. That was new to me. His sources also say state funding from the legislature would have to come in next year’s budget. So it doesn’t seem like the mystery of Jimmyland’s billion-dollar funding will be solved soon…

 

https://signalcleveland.org/new-browns-stadium-financing-mystery-cuyahoga-county-council-recount/

11 hours ago, coneflower said:

Nick Castele, a reporter who is not a hack, mentioned JobsOhio as a potential source of funding for the new stadium. That was new to me. His sources also say state funding from the legislature would have to come in next year’s budget. So it doesn’t seem like the mystery of Jimmyland’s billion-dollar funding will be solved soon…

 

https://signalcleveland.org/new-browns-stadium-financing-mystery-cuyahoga-county-council-recount/

I believe JobsOhio is providing the incentive for Aer Lingus flights in Cleveland. Obviously Nick is making an educated guess at potential funding sources. But with the level of money we're talking about, JobsOhio could do so much more.

 

They could cover the Ohio portion of the operating costs to run the 3C+D line, and pay for 2 or 3 international routes each from Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati for $35-50 million per year. We could have 12-20 years of that with the potential upfront stadium money if they funnel a portion of it through JobsOhio. 

 

That would actually generate new jobs, spending, and growth in the state. Vs spending it to just move existing jobs, while potentially further hurting the city center of what is always the first or second highest GDP county in the state. But this is the Ohio government, so it wouldn't surprise me. 

Edited December 3, 2024Dec 3 by PlanCleveland
Typo

i don’t think its all that bad, they did go to the top stadium architects HKS Architects, but yeah compared to their other work with sofi, us bank, att&t, etc., this one is lacking. due to less fundage it would seem. 

an insta look —

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDGRtJGPAfK/?igsh=NGRsNmJzNDVqeTRx

 

12 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

I believe JobsOhio is providing the incentive for Aer Lingus flights in Cleveland. Obviously Nick is making an educated guess at potential funding sources. But with the level of money we're talking about, JobsOhio could do so much more.

 

They could cover the Ohio portion of the operating costs to run the 3C+D line, and pay for 2 or 3 international routes each from Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati for $35-50 million per year. We could have 12-20 years of that with the potential upfront stadium money if they funnel a portion of it through JobsOhio. 

 

That would actually generate new jobs, spending, and growth in the state. Vs spending it to just move existing jobs, while potentially further hurting the city center of what is always the first or second highest GDP county in the state. But this is the Ohio government, so it wouldn't surprise me. 

True, using JobsOhio does not seem in keeping with their mission - while the projects you mention above would be most welcome - but the idea does seem plausible in Jimmy's world of Statehouse lobbyists and Columbus insiders who are always willing to stick it to Cleveland (DeWine will sign on to whatever Jimmy and Dee tell hime to do).

A project's proponent and their sponsoring legislator and/or governor seeking to fund that project need to administer that appropriation through the most relevant agency and program. A legislature or governor can't cut checks to someone. Only an agency can do that and because it goes through a particular program, it usually has strings attached, requiring an application process and progress/performance reporting requirements. 

12 hours ago, Willo said:

True, using JobsOhio does not seem in keeping with their mission - while the projects you mention above would be most welcome - but the idea does seem plausible in Jimmy's world of Statehouse lobbyists and Columbus insiders who are always willing to stick it to Cleveland (DeWine will sign on to whatever Jimmy and Dee tell hime to do).

Not a fan of DeWine, but I don't think it'll be that simple. Blue and purple/blue regional fundings will be reduced a great deal the next four years, and a lot of capital investments such as the brookpark fantasy are DOA. Better for State to save that money for anti-transgender investments and prosecuting women for suspect miscarriages, I suppose. 

 

Plus what's a few hundred million dollars from State even if Jimmy's cashiers check comes through? Pennies to the billions needed for this albatross. 

Brown's say dome will have huge economic impact. Study released. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/browns-release-economic-impact-study-brook-park-stadium

I'm sick of listening to them and their shills at this point. It's literally nothing but glorified propaganda. 

 

Give us all a good laugh and tell us what your financing plan is. 

Honestly could probably stop reading after this, "HSG is only releasing the executive summary of the study." But other interesting nuggets are:

 

"Of the $1.2 billion in economic output, $550 million would come from the mixed-use development of residential, retail and hotels. About $217 million would come from stadium events, including concerts and shows." - Which is to say most of the supposed economic benefit isn't even coming from the stadium. 

 

"According to the study, total spending at bars, restaurants and hotels in downtown Cleveland would increase by about $11 million with the additional visitors more Brook Park events would bring. (The city of Cleveland estimated that downtown would lose about $10 million without the stadium on the lakefront.)" -amazing they somehow came up with a number slightly larger than the earlier released study released by the the City of Cleveland. \s

 

Releasing only the summary without revealing the methodology of the study is basically an admission that the study isn't worth the paper it's printed on. I can make a study show anything if I'm given free reign to make whatever assumptions I want, and since they didn't release the actual study, just a summary, it's safe to assume that's exactly what they did. 

 

Personally, if it isn't paid for by public funds, I don't much care where in NEO it's built, but as far as I can tell this study s worthless and shouldn't move the needle at all since it can't be examined. 

These guys are terrible at PR. 

34 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Brown's say dome will have huge economic impact. Study released. https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-recreation/browns-release-economic-impact-study-brook-park-stadium

Their Instagram post is full of skeptical people who are making fun of the team. I am so glad to see.

This stadium move to Brookpark is happening.  I hate to see it because it's just picking up a core piece of downtown and transporting it to the suburbs, but it's happening.  My circle of contacts & friends in the construction/real estate biz are all moving ahead on deals related to this.  Haslam, the Digeronimos and handful of other key powerbrokers are all in on this.  They won't get all the subsidy they want,, but they will get some public money.   But it's happening regardless.  This deal is not coming back to the City for renegotiating.  The only thing really left to discuss is what to do with the old stadium.

43 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Honestly could probably stop reading after this, "HSG is only releasing the executive summary of the study." But other interesting nuggets are:

 

"Of the $1.2 billion in economic output, $550 million would come from the mixed-use development of residential, retail and hotels. About $217 million would come from stadium events, including concerts and shows." - Which is to say most of the supposed economic benefit isn't even coming from the stadium. 

 

"According to the study, total spending at bars, restaurants and hotels in downtown Cleveland would increase by about $11 million with the additional visitors more Brook Park events would bring. (The city of Cleveland estimated that downtown would lose about $10 million without the stadium on the lakefront.)" -amazing they somehow came up with a number slightly larger than the earlier released study released by the the City of Cleveland. \s

 

Releasing only the summary without revealing the methodology of the study is basically an admission that the study isn't worth the paper it's printed on. I can make a study show anything if I'm given free reign to make whatever assumptions I want, and since they didn't release the actual study, just a summary, it's safe to assume that's exactly what they did. 

 

Personally, if it isn't paid for by public funds, I don't much care where in NEO it's built, but as far as I can tell this study s worthless and shouldn't move the needle at all since it can't be examined. 

Good catch the $10-12 million in benefit to downtown magically aligns with the very narrow loss Bibb identified of $ 11 million loss (not the best argument we digress).  I am sure we can hire CSU public policy masters program students to pencil whip an identical study showing Double or $ 2.4 Billion of benefits if located Center City. Notice how the bulk of their benefits of $550 million is for non-football surrounding mixed use development aka further cannibalism of existing area venues or rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  Their amount now includes approx $200 million benefit outside Cuyahoga? Hello Statehouse legislators how do you like your steaks? Hilarious study - I am sure Queen Dee’s hard copy has rainbow and unicorns on the cover page.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/rclco-conducts-study-on-stadium-anchored-mixed-use-development-in-brook-park

1 hour ago, snakebite said:

I'm sick of listening to them and their shills at this point. It's literally nothing but glorified propaganda. 

 

Give us all a good laugh and tell us what your financing plan is. 

What's even more pathetic is that it's working when it comes to guys like Darryl Ruiter and Jeff Phelps. Nevermind what almost every academic peer reviewed study says, THIS one hired by the Browns surely means this project will bring endless opportunity to the region!

 

Haslams say proposed Browns’ Brook Park stadium, development to net $1.2 billion in benefits per year
By Ken Prendergast / December 5, 2024

 

The Haslam Sports Group, owners of the Cleveland Browns football team and stadium development company Primacy Development LLC, released findings today from a study saying their proposed stadium in suburban Brook Park would benefit all of Cuyahoga County, including Downtown Cleveland. But county officials say they want the Browns to continue playing downtown and aren’t buying the study’s findings.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/12/05/haslams-say-proposed-browns-brook-park-stadium-development-to-net-1-2-billion-in-benefits-per-year/

 

At least when you watch an infomercial they tell you at the end what you are paying. Flextape, more transparent than HSG.

 

 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Haslams say proposed Browns’ Brook Park stadium, development to net $1.2 billion in benefits per year
By Ken Prendergast / December 5, 2024

 

The Haslam Sports Group, owners of the Cleveland Browns football team and stadium development company Primacy Development LLC, released findings today from a study saying their proposed stadium in suburban Brook Park would benefit all of Cuyahoga County, including Downtown Cleveland. But county officials say they want the Browns to continue playing downtown and aren’t buying the study’s findings.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/12/05/haslams-say-proposed-browns-brook-park-stadium-development-to-net-1-2-billion-in-benefits-per-year/

 

If its $1.2BN a year, then fine, build it there. We the taxpayers don't need to give it a dime.

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Haslams say proposed Browns’ Brook Park stadium, development to net $1.2 billion in benefits per year
By Ken Prendergast / December 5, 2024

 

The Haslam Sports Group, owners of the Cleveland Browns football team and stadium development company Primacy Development LLC, released findings today from a study saying their proposed stadium in suburban Brook Park would benefit all of Cuyahoga County, including Downtown Cleveland. But county officials say they want the Browns to continue playing downtown and aren’t buying the study’s findings.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/12/05/haslams-say-proposed-browns-brook-park-stadium-development-to-net-1-2-billion-in-benefits-per-year/

 

All you need to read is the sketchy Disclaimer, Critical Assumptions and General Limiting Conditions section at the end of the report.  They don't take responsibily for any of wild a@@ $ projections - they basicaly admit they pulled the data from you know where. 

 

Of course the Haslams used a DC-based real estate firm for this "market analsis" fairytale.  Jimmy told them what he wanted and they obliged with this smoke, mirrors, and BS.

 

btw...I am glad we learned we needed a DC firm to tell us flow over country folk that we are not sophisticated enough to appreciate how awesome the HSG and this BP mirage really is (for the REGION not Cleveland):

 

"The region should be really excited for this opportunity, and we recognize that it's hard to envision today how one NFL venue can be different from another NFL venue when it's just moving not that far down the road," Talkington said...We really think that at the end of the day, this is a better utilization of this venue and a better opportunity economically and more efficient opportunity economically for how a stadium can contribute to the regional economy than an open-air venue that needs some work and isn't going to change anything from an economic perspective today."

• Rule #1: when they start with "At the end of the day" run as you are being played
• Where is their 24 month study on rehabbing this so-called open air venue?
• Where is their 24-month study on covering this so-called open air venue
• Where are their conclusions and data backing up an open-air venue that needs some work and isn't going to change anything from an economic perspective today.
• Where is their study on even the possibility of having access to the Burke land right next door (not virgin soil but neither is the BP EPA superfound site)?  Any architect or developer of stature would have salivated to at least make that pitch!

 

Edited December 5, 2024Dec 5 by Willo

as much as I hate this relocation, if they can get this deal done without public subsidy, good for them, do it.  Just look at the continued payouts for the Cavs/Indians facilities.  Its an endless money pit.  Was supposed to be paid for with sin tax revenues, that didn't cover it.  Naming rights, special events, hotel bed taxes, etc.  Always need more.  City is floating a bond now for millions to cover maintanence costs required by the lease.

 

The fact is, Cleveland is way too small of a market to have pro football/basketball/baseball.  The only reason we do is because our local govt shills out $$$ to the owners.  Nobody wants to be the one who let the Browns leave town, etc

11 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

as much as I hate this relocation, if they can get this deal done without public subsidy, good for them, do it.  Just look at the continued payouts for the Cavs/Indians facilities.  Its an endless money pit.  Was supposed to be paid for with sin tax revenues, that didn't cover it.  Naming rights, special events, hotel bed taxes, etc.  Always need more.  City is floating a bond now for millions to cover maintanence costs required by the lease.

 

The fact is, Cleveland is way too small of a market to have pro football/basketball/baseball.  The only reason we do is because our local govt shills out $$$ to the owners.  Nobody wants to be the one who let the Browns leave town, etc

First, if they can do it with private funding, more power to them. My beef is giving this boondoggle more than a billion dollars from taxpayers. 
 

Second, this has been discussed before but we punch above our weight with our teams. Attendance across the board is strong for their leagues. If the numbers weren’t there, these teams would leave. We don’t need act like we’re Peoria. 

Northeast ohio is a top 20 media market. People do act like we’re Peoria, it’s overblown.

2 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

What's even more pathetic is that it's working when it comes to guys like Darryl Ruiter and Jeff Phelps. Nevermind what almost every academic peer reviewed study says, THIS one hired by the Browns surely means this project will bring endless opportunity to the region!

 

Phelps and Ruiter don't want to be fired. They can criticize Haslam to a degree about the team, but this stadium issue is off the table. 

11 minutes ago, mu2010 said:

Northeast ohio is a top 20 media market. People do act like we’re Peoria, it’s overblown.

I was just typing the same thing when your reply popped up. TV market size is king in professional sports. 

 

The next 2 TV markets above us are Miami and Denver, so that's the type of category we are in. 

 

About a 50-60% bigger market than KC, Columbus, Austin, Cincy, Milwaukee, Vegas

 

30-40% larger than Pittsburgh, Baltimore, SLC, Nashville, San Diego

Edited December 5, 2024Dec 5 by PlanCleveland

23 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said:

I was just typing the same thing when your reply popped up. TV market size is king in professional sports. 

 

The next 2 TV markets above us are Miami and Denver, so that's the type of category we are in. 

 

About a 50-60% bigger market than KC, Columbus, Austin, Cincy, Milwaukee, Vegas

 

30-40% larger than Pittsburgh, Baltimore, SLC, Nashville, San Diego

interesting numbers.  If our tv market is so impressive, why are we subsidizing all these stadiums endlessly?

2 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

interesting numbers.  If our tv market is so impressive, why are we subsidizing all these stadiums endlessly?

 

Because almost every pro sports venue is publicly subsidized everywhere.  There's a handful that the owners actually ponied up for, but it's rare.

Just now, X said:

 

Because almost every pro sports venue is publicly subsidized everywhere.  There's a handful that the owners actually ponied up for, but it's rare.

Exactly.

15 minutes ago, X said:

 

Because almost every pro sports venue is publicly subsidized everywhere.  There's a handful that the owners actually ponied up for, but it's rare.

that's actually not true, but ok

23 minutes ago, X said:

26 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

interesting numbers.  If our tv market is so impressive, why are we subsidizing all these stadiums endlessly?

 

Because almost every pro sports venue is publicly subsidized everywhere.  There's a handful that the owners actually ponied up for, but it's rare.

 

For a prime example of this whole process, take a look ~5 hours down the road in Chicago (3rd largest media market). The debate going on there and how the issue is framed (by the ownership group, media members and state/local elected officials) is remarkably similar to what is happening in Cleveland. Existing lakefront stadium, city handouts not enough, inner ring suburb relocation site (Arlington Heights / Brookpark), surrounding development potential, an uninterested response from local and state governments. The McCaskey's are however much poorer (and arguably worse at running an NFL team) than the Haslams. 

 

Bears Ask Taxpayers for $2.4B Subsidy to Build $4.75B Domed Stadium Along Lakefront

 

Bears' $5B Arlington Heights plan will hinge on taxpayer funding options

 

It is at least somewhat reassuring that this does happen everywhere. 

1 hour ago, PlanCleveland said:

I was just typing the same thing when your reply popped up. TV market size is king in professional sports. 

 

The next 2 TV markets above us are Miami and Denver, so that's the type of category we are in. 

 

About a 50-60% bigger market than KC, Columbus, Austin, Cincy, Milwaukee, Vegas

 

30-40% larger than Pittsburgh, Baltimore, SLC, Nashville, San Diego

Top 20 is still good - not as good as 8th or 9th as in the 60's - but we need to find a way to stop the slide furher. 

1 minute ago, Willo said:

Top 20 is still good - not as good as 8th or 9th as in the 60's - but we need to find a way to stop the slide furher. 

That is investing in actual economic development, which creates jobs, which attracts people, which grows the media market. 

32 minutes ago, gottaplan said:

48 minutes ago, X said:

 

Because almost every pro sports venue is publicly subsidized everywhere.  There's a handful that the owners actually ponied up for, but it's rare.

that's actually not true, but ok

 

There are so few stadiums in the US that are not subsidized with tax dollars. There are over 100 pro sports venues in the US, and I can only think of a handful that were "privately funded."

 

There is MetLife, Gillette and SoFi in the NFL.  Giants stadium in San Francisco (and the really old ballparks that predate these handouts). T-Mobile in Vegas and Ballmer's new arena Intuit were privately funded. A few newer MLS venues were as well. It is worth noting that even most of these private venues have some sort of local tax exemption (which is definitely a form of taxpayer assistance) or received public funding for surrounding infrastructure improvements.

 

I am likely forgetting a few, but they won't change that ~95% of pro sports venues in the United States receive publics subsidies. 

36 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

That is investing in actual economic development, which creates jobs, which attracts people, which grows the media market. 

Yes follow Pittsburgh's lead to reinvent the economy faster rather than focusing on uninspiring drive in/drive out sterile mini-Crocker Parks, Legacy Village, or Pinecrests - found in every city.  We have the original template downtown and adjacent neighborhoods - focus there Jimmy with your slick DC real estate advisors.  Jimmy - there is a reason nobody who knows basic Cleveland's history and needs ever proposed a Claptrap in such a location as yours.  What is the real reason you turned your back on Cleveland as your nonstop PR campaign is not believable.

45 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said:

I am likely forgetting a few, but they won't change that ~95% of pro sports venues in the United States receive publics subsidies. 

AT&T Stadium in Arlington TX was funded by Jerry. 

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

2 hours ago, NorthShore647 said:

I am likely forgetting a few, but they won't change that ~95% of pro sports venues in the United States receive publics subsidies. 

AT&T Stadium in Arlington TX was funded by Jerry. 

 

Someone should tell the people of Arlington

 

Texas Business Report: How Taxpayers Subsidized Construction of Cowboys Stadium

Rob Heidrick - Jan. 21, 2013 - Texas Monthly

 

"The city of Arlington approved a total of $325 million in bonds backed by a half-cent increase in city sales tax, 2% increase in the hotel motel tax, and a 5% increase in the car rental tax. A second set of bonds, $147.9 million were issued to fund the stadium. This set of bonds are backed by ticket and parking taxes."

https://www.ncsl.org/fiscal/stadium-game-back-in-play#:~:text=The city of Arlington approved,by ticket and parking taxes.

 

Adjusted for inflation, that's ~$550 million taxpayer dollars to build Jerry World (Jones is worth over $15 billion)

9 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said:

 

Someone should tell the people of Arlington

 

Texas Business Report: How Taxpayers Subsidized Construction of Cowboys Stadium

Rob Heidrick - Jan. 21, 2013 - Texas Monthly

 

"The city of Arlington approved a total of $325 million in bonds backed by a half-cent increase in city sales tax, 2% increase in the hotel motel tax, and a 5% increase in the car rental tax. A second set of bonds, $147.9 million were issued to fund the stadium. This set of bonds are backed by ticket and parking taxes."

https://www.ncsl.org/fiscal/stadium-game-back-in-play#:~:text=The city of Arlington approved,by ticket and parking taxes.

 

Adjusted for inflation, that's ~$550 million taxpayer dollars to build Jerry World (Jones is worth over $15 billion)

Jerry and Jimmy may be related via their PR machines.

 

There's more...

Looky here also:  https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article270030797.html

 

NFL owners will finance Dallas Cowboys plan for $295M in enhancements to AT&T Stadium

The Dallas Cowboys got a helping hand from the NFL on Wednesday in their plan to give a AT&T Stadium a $295 million face lift in advance of the 2026 FIFA World Cup.

 

As suspected Jimmy should be getting a big helping hand up from his fellow owners.  You would think the NFL billionaires would want to instead help Cleveland upgrade its stadium given our histroy and proximity to the birthplace of football - rather than dump on us again and again.

Interesting stuff....

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/lincoln-property-company-announced-as-cleveland-browns-development-partner-for-enclosed-stadium-anchored-entertainment-district

Circa 500k sq. feet of office space proposed. That can't be far off the footprint of the whole Progressive campus. Also 20%+ office vacancy space across the metro as is. This is amongst the worst corporate welfare requests I have ever seen. Anyone who signs off on this should be jailed. 

Edited December 10, 2024Dec 10 by snakebite