5 minutes ago, mu2010 said:

Haslam has shown himself to not exactly be a strategic genius…

 

The Randy Lerner of Tennessee?

Brook Park hires Bricker Graydon to assist with the Browns Brook Park development plans and the selection process seems to be a bit odd. From the reporting Mayor Orcutt selected Bricker Graydon "after careful consideration" with his law director. There was no other mention of what other firms or how many other forms were reviewed before the selection. What's special about Bricker Graydon? They assisted Columbus with the Crew stadium development. It would have been nice if Cleveland.com had dug a little further to find out if the Haslam's were at all involved with the selection of Baker Grayson... 

 

It was also odd that the Brook Park City Council suspended their normal process the vote on hiring Bricker Graydon after one reading of the contract. I don't understand what the urgency is here, Haslam's plans don't seem to be far enough along that Brook Park would be in a position to need to play catch up. 

 

Maybe I need to take my conspiracy cap off, but taken together seems like there may have been some outside pressure to expedite the process and select this firm specifically.

 

Brook Park hires law firm to assist with Browns relocation and domed stadium project

Published: Dec. 27, 2024

By Maura Zurick, cleveland.com

 

BROOK PARK, Ohio – Brook Park City Council approved hiring a law firm to represent the city in negotiations and planning for the Cleveland Browns’ potential relocation and the development of a new domed stadium.

 

...

 

Ward 1 Councilman Tom Troyer, who abstained, also opposed suspending the rules to adopt the measure after just one reading. He explained during the meeting that he received the information packet shortly before the session and did not have enough time to review it thoroughly.

 

...

 

Orcutt praised the firm’s track record, highlighting its work on successful public-private partnership projects, including the development of the Columbus Crew’s new stadium. He said Bricker Graydon will play a critical role in representing Brook Park’s interests as the city navigates the complex process of negotiating the Browns’ move, securing financing, planning the domed stadium and developing surrounding areas.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/newssun/2024/12/brook-park-hires-law-firm-to-assist-with-browns-relocation-and-domed-stadium-project.html

1 hour ago, Luke_S said:

Brook Park hires Bricker Graydon to assist with the Browns Brook Park development plans and the selection process seems to be a bit odd. From the reporting Mayor Orcutt selected Bricker Graydon "after careful consideration" with his law director. There was no other mention of what other firms or how many other forms were reviewed before the selection. What's special about Bricker Graydon? They assisted Columbus with the Crew stadium development. It would have been nice if Cleveland.com had dug a little further to find out if the Haslam's were at all involved with the selection of Baker Grayson... 

 

It was also odd that the Brook Park City Council suspended their normal process the vote on hiring Bricker Graydon after one reading of the contract. I don't understand what the urgency is here, Haslam's plans don't seem to be far enough along that Brook Park would be in a position to need to play catch up. 

 

Maybe I need to take my conspiracy cap off, but taken together seems like there may have been some outside pressure to expedite the process and select this firm specifically.

 

Brook Park hires law firm to assist with Browns relocation and domed stadium project

Published: Dec. 27, 2024

By Maura Zurick, cleveland.com

 

BROOK PARK, Ohio – Brook Park City Council approved hiring a law firm to represent the city in negotiations and planning for the Cleveland Browns’ potential relocation and the development of a new domed stadium.

 

...

 

Ward 1 Councilman Tom Troyer, who abstained, also opposed suspending the rules to adopt the measure after just one reading. He explained during the meeting that he received the information packet shortly before the session and did not have enough time to review it thoroughly.

 

...

 

Orcutt praised the firm’s track record, highlighting its work on successful public-private partnership projects, including the development of the Columbus Crew’s new stadium. He said Bricker Graydon will play a critical role in representing Brook Park’s interests as the city navigates the complex process of negotiating the Browns’ move, securing financing, planning the domed stadium and developing surrounding areas.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/newssun/2024/12/brook-park-hires-law-firm-to-assist-with-browns-relocation-and-domed-stadium-project.html

"...He said Bricker Graydon will play a critical role in representing Brook Park’s interests"

Not sure how rushinh to hire the same firm that Haslam used when building the Crew stadium represents Brook Parks' interests

14 minutes ago, Willo said:

"...He said Bricker Graydon will play a critical role in representing Brook Park’s interests"

Not sure how rushinh to hire the same firm that Haslam used when building the Crew stadium represents Brook Parks' interests

 

Well, presumably represented Columbus though would be useful to know if Haslam preferences their selection in Columbus. And I don't know if that was a square deal for Columbus or not. Again, a lot more details Cleveland.com could have (and should have) included in this article...

14 minutes ago, Willo said:

"...He said Bricker Graydon will play a critical role in representing Brook Park’s interests"

Not sure how rushinh to hire the same firm that Haslam used when building the Crew stadium represents Brook Parks' interests

I was wondering the same thing.  Without having all the facts, it might not technically be a conflict of interest but there is the "whole appearance' thing.  The Browns and Brookpark are going to have negotiate many things at arms length.  I don't know how this helps but again do not have all the facts regarding the client relationship other than one sentence in a news article.  I "wonder" who recommended this firm to Brookpark?

There is so much about this project that hasn’t been covered. Some other things that would be useful to know:

 

It’s been said by the Haslams and some in the government that this effort will grow the economy regionally. Where is the evidence? 
 

The plan currently doesn’t seem to contemplate interaction with the airport even though it’s right next to it. How does the team/developer expect to maximize that connection? 
 

What do other private parties that could be impacted think of this? Like Dan Gilbert’s team. Or the people at Crocker Park, etc. Do they view this as a threat?

 

If the county did contribute funds to this, what are the opportunity costs (I.e. what could we be potentially be taking from?)

 

What are Cleveland’s options if the lakefront is abandoned by the Browns. Is the plan dead without money? Or could there be other partners out there who would be interested in doing anything there?

 

23 minutes ago, coneflower said:

There is so much about this project that hasn’t been covered. Some other things that would be useful to know:

 

It’s been said by the Haslams and some in the government that this effort will grow the economy regionally. Where is the evidence? 
 

The plan currently doesn’t seem to contemplate interaction with the airport even though it’s right next to it. How does the team/developer expect to maximize that connection? 
 

What do other private parties that could be impacted think of this? Like Dan Gilbert’s team. Or the people at Crocker Park, etc. Do they view this as a threat?

 

If the county did contribute funds to this, what are the opportunity costs (I.e. what could we be potentially be taking from?)

 

What are Cleveland’s options if the lakefront is abandoned by the Browns. Is the plan dead without money? Or could there be other partners out there who would be interested in doing anything there?

 

We've seen a lot of areas like that in denser cities that get built up. I think it'd just turn into a mix-use district. Residential heavy.

10 minutes ago, columbus17 said:

We've seen a lot of areas like that in denser cities that get built up. I think it'd just turn into a mix-use district. Residential heavy.

 

The residential aspect of this concept is the furthest from reality. Anything built would likely run close to a half million and up to live adjacent to a major airport, in a parking lot, surrounded by highways, next to a stadium that promises multiple events per year. And this in a city where that money would buy you an actual property with a damn nice house. 

Edited December 28, 2024Dec 28 by math

11 minutes ago, math said:

 

The residential aspect of this concept is the furthest from reality. Anything built would likely run close to a half million and up to live adjacent to a major airport, in a parking lot, surrounded by highways, next to a stadium that promises multiple events per year. And this in a city where that money would buy you an actual property with a damn nice house. 

I have been saying this for months about any fantasy residential in this development. However, I included in my list as well as all of the above freight railroad tracks, dirty bookstores, and drunken football fans walking past your front door 10 to 12 times a year.

1 hour ago, math said:

 

The residential aspect of this concept is the furthest from reality. Anything built would likely run close to a half million and up to live adjacent to a major airport, in a parking lot, surrounded by highways, next to a stadium that promises multiple events per year. And this in a city where that money would buy you an actual property with a damn nice house. 

 

I think anything outside of a hotel or two, a couple sports bars, and a team shop is completely unrealistic.  There's just no reason for the folks with the kind of money needed to shop at the kind of boutiques that fill these sorts of lifestyle centers to drive from Westlake past Crocker Park, or from Solon past Pinecrest, or Beachwood past Legacy Village to get to this development.  At best you're equidistant to the Indepence/Brecksville rich with Pinecrest.  The southwestern suburbs around Brookpark are largely not "boutique" income level shoppers (not that there's nobody there that is).

4 minutes ago, X said:

 

I think anything outside of a hotel or two, a couple sports bars, and a team shop is completely unrealistic.  There's just no reason for the folks with the kind of money needed to shop at the kind of boutiques that fill these sorts of lifestyle centers to drive from Westlake past Crocker Park, or from Solon past Pinecrest, or Beachwood past Legacy Village to get to this development.  At best you're equidistant to the Indepence/Brecksville rich with Pinecrest.  The southwestern suburbs around Brookpark are largely not "boutique" income level shoppers (not that there's nobody there that is).

As I understand it, the first thing a retail developer does when scouting locations for a development, especially a proposed upscale development, is complete extensive demographic studies with the goal to see what the income levels are within X amount of miles of the proposed development. I would imagine those studies also taken into account competing developments within X  amount of miles. If somebody was going to build a significant retail development in Brook Park, this would’ve been done years ago. I don’t see how a stadium in anyway makes such shopping more attractive, especially when it will only be used a limited number of days a year.

You're assuming that the data will be accurate. I've seem some pretty gerrymandered concentric market areas  to come up with some incredible market data.

5 minutes ago, KJP said:

You're assuming that the data will be accurate. I've seem some pretty gerrymandered concentric market areas  to come up with some incredible market data.

I guess if a developer is that clueless, then he deserves to lose all his money when the development fails.

5 hours ago, X said:

I think anything outside of a hotel or two, a couple sports bars, and a team shop is completely unrealistic.  There's just no reason for the folks with the kind of money needed to shop at the kind of boutiques that fill these sorts of lifestyle centers to drive from Westlake past Crocker Park, or from Solon past Pinecrest, or Beachwood past Legacy Village to get to this development.  At best you're equidistant to the Indepence/Brecksville rich with Pinecrest.  The southwestern suburbs around Brookpark are largely not "boutique" income level shoppers (not that there's nobody there that is).

This is my thought too. Nobody is going to Heartwood Coffee in Pinecrest and thinking, “you know what this needs? An NFL stadium.”

 

On the flip side, the Pinecrest, Crocker Park et al folks cannot love the idea of the state/county government paying someone from out of town to subsidize a competitor to their own developments. 
 

My own hunch is this whole thing is not a real threat to the suburban malls or downtown, but we all deserve more than just hunches to evaluate the potential implications!

23 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I was wondering the same thing.  Without having all the facts, it might not technically be a conflict of interest but there is the "whole appearance' thing.  The Browns and Brookpark are going to have negotiate many things at arms length.  I don't know how this helps but again do not have all the facts regarding the client relationship other than one sentence in a news article.  I "wonder" who recommended this firm to Brookpark?

Beside the incomplete news story we can only assume there are few coincidences where Jimmy is concerned. We do find it interesting that the same firm is now on the other side of the equation based on the Bricker Graydon (Bricker & Eckler at time per internet) firm's work for Columbus to keep the Crew:

 

Bricker & Eckler will provide pro bono legal counsel to the City of Columbus in its effort to keep Columbus Crew SC in Central Ohio. The city, in partnership with Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine, filed a lawsuit in early March against Crew owner Anthony Precourt and Major League Soccer citing violations of what has become known as the “Modell Law,” the state’s effort to prevent the relocation of professional sports teams. “We are excited to team up with a local Columbus firm in this community-wide effort,” said city attorney Zach Klein. Their “talented team of attorneys will be an incredible resource to us in this fight.” Read more in the full Columbus Dispatch story.

https://www.brickergraydon.com/insights/news/Bricker-Eckler-teams-up-with-city-joins-SaveTheCrew-movement

 

Edited December 29, 2024Dec 29 by Willo

It's funny after what a disaster the season has been they have the balls to be the ones dictating the terms. Might well be the worst organization in professional sports in this country right now.

I mean, the Bears and Jets might have something to say about that crown... Maybe they should look at this Baker guy in Tampa, he'd be a good fit.

 

Going right back to the topic, it does seem like the Browns bought in to the hype that they'd be riding near the top of the league and planned things out to announce the new stadium during the heart of a playoff season. The renders and master plan documents likely started to be created at least a year to a year and a half ago.

Mention of Terry Coyne in another thread sent me to his LinkedIn and saw he has posted recently about the new stadium. He says:  

 

"...Which means that the Browns, who reaffirmed their relocation to Brookpark this week with their announcement of their architect, may win the Modell lawsuit, and have no compunction to work with the city on a friendly departure since the city and county have decided to litigate rather negotiate.

I reiterate my earlier post, the city should make a financial deal with the Browns upon their departure. Litigation rarely ends as expected. Secure money for demolition and site prep from the Browns and look to the future."

 

Also an interesting comment from Tessa Jackson, that is worth considering:

 

"San Antonio business leaders have been trying to get a team for decades and they know they the only option is an existing team because the league has no plans to add another 4, so they'll happily take what they can get. Also, the Browns didn't technically sue—they asked the courts for a ruling to provide clarity on the constitutionality of the Modell Law, knowing that the courts don't have to provide it. If anything, that gambit all but told the City not to treat the Modell Law like a trump card, esp. when any suit will eventually wind up in SCOTUS where losing is all but assured."

 

Did a quick Google and saw the idea that Austin and San Antonio could team up and put a team halfway between both cities and have it represent central Texas. Seems plausible!

33 minutes ago, coneflower said:

Did a quick Google and saw the idea that Austin and San Antonio could team up and put a team halfway between both cities and have it represent central Texas. Seems plausible!

 

Not saying it isn't a good idea, but Jerry Jones will never let that happen. 

I would pay Austin or San Antonio to take them at this point. 

19 minutes ago, coneflower said:

Mention of Terry Coyne in another thread sent me to his LinkedIn and saw he has posted recently about the new stadium. He says:  

 

"...Which means that the Browns, who reaffirmed their relocation to Brookpark this week with their announcement of their architect, may win the Modell lawsuit, and have no compunction to work with the city on a friendly departure since the city and county have decided to litigate rather negotiate.

I reiterate my earlier post, the city should make a financial deal with the Browns upon their departure. Litigation rarely ends as expected. Secure money for demolition and site prep from the Browns and look to the future."

 

Also an interesting comment from Tessa Jackson, that is worth considering:

 

"San Antonio business leaders have been trying to get a team for decades and they know they the only option is an existing team because the league has no plans to add another 4, so they'll happily take what they can get. Also, the Browns didn't technically sue—they asked the courts for a ruling to provide clarity on the constitutionality of the Modell Law, knowing that the courts don't have to provide it. If anything, that gambit all but told the City not to treat the Modell Law like a trump card, esp. when any suit will eventually wind up in SCOTUS where losing is all but assured."

 

Did a quick Google and saw the idea that Austin and San Antonio could team up and put a team halfway between both cities and have it represent central Texas. Seems plausible!

 

San Antonio is proposing a massive renovation of the Alamodome next to a new Spurs arena and a Convention Center expansion and some other mixed use (photo below). There is no way they would publicly fund a stadium halfway to Austin with that going on.  Orlando is also flipping the Citrus Bowl again for around half a billion after another major renovation only a few years back. I really don't see any new cities in the NFL until they go to 34 teams, San Antonio/Austin will definitely be in the frame then, which will happen after they get to 18 games, it might be a decade or more, but its coming. Unless something very extreme happens like New Orleans gets washed out by another major hurricane and they need to move.  There is no LA sized market just now that can be used as leverage like before for relocation IMO. Even Austin for its all growth is very transient and heavily dominated by the Longhorns, plus it kinda laps a bit close to the Texans and Cowboys. I'd be very suprised if that city/region provided serious public handouts for a team, it would be private money. 

 

 

That San Antonio rendering is actually really cool. Now I'm jealous.

 

I don't know anything about Texas. The former mayor of San Antone suggested in this article pairing the two cities to get the NFL but he didn't propose a timeline: https://www.kens5.com/article/news/local/pro-football/nfl-san-antonio-franchise-expansion-austin-cisneros/273-8f4d36e1-5edb-460a-9d89-0d465f8d5631

Groundbreaking in 2026? https://fox8.com/news/i-team/browns-dome-brook-park-mayor-projects-when-groundbreaking-will-start/

Ya gonna say that’s not gonna happen 

Suburbs just picking the scraps from a dying carcass

Your posts are a dying carcass 

I had to drive back and forth from the east side of the county to Brook Park multiple times today. On the drive between 271 and 480 and I saw at least 3 accidents and the weather was great and I was almost run off the road at least once. I’m convinced 480 is the worst highway to drive on in Northeast Ohio and I avoid it at all costs. Folks east of the city may go to this development for a football game but there is no way it can draw people away from any of the existing mixed use shopping developments that already exist. 

2 hours ago, simplythis said:

Groundbreaking in 2026? https://fox8.com/news/i-team/browns-dome-brook-park-mayor-projects-when-groundbreaking-will-start/

 

That's a given. It takes three years to build an NFL stadium. The current stadium lease ends after the 2028 season so the new stadium has to be done before August 2029. That means a 2026 groundbreaking. Prett simple math. 

When the mayor of Brook Park states he believes this stadium should last 50 years is laughable.  No billionaire will keep the stadium for that long. They all want the shiniest new object funded by the taxpayer's.   

Its 2025 and the mayor of Brook Park is salivating over creating 14,000 parking spaces, knowing all we do about the problems mass use of cars bring, all the extra drunk drivers who will be heading out onto the roads after games.

 

Wants to use the tax revenue generated from the stadium not even to benefit Brook Park, but somehow use it just to keep the lid on things in terms of game day operational costs and upkeep of the stadium (for 50 years ha). Hes banking on the mixed use development following and being the real revenue generator, which is even more uncertain than the actual stadium.

 

Lets not even get into the tenant poaching, state/county subsidies again.

 

This project is such a freakin joke. The worst in the history of North East Ohio.

Edited January 31Jan 31 by CLE2BAL

is he poaching? sounds like this just fell into his lap and (as a mayor should) he's trying to make it work

16 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

is he poaching? sounds like this just fell into his lap and (as a mayor should) he's trying to make it work

I think they mean tenant poaching regarding the retail portion of the development. I may be wrong. 

17 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

is he poaching? sounds like this just fell into his lap and (as a mayor should) he's trying to make it work

 

Yep - I've only listened to two or so interviews with the mayor and he seems pretty levelheaded about all of it. I don't think he was actively looking to have a stadium built in BP and would probably prefer industry...but he's also not going to tell the Browns and this development to pound salt. 

 

All that said...Jimmy:

 

 

 

Groundbreaking in '26 and still no sign of funding. All the hats in all the discount stores in NEO sold out. Coincidence? I think Jimmy is going to flood all the highway on/off ramps and all the best corners downtown with panhandlers. Gotta get that money.

His comments seem fairly benign, non-committal.

46 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I think they mean tenant poaching regarding the retail portion of the development. I may be wrong. 

You are correct. 🙂

 

My later comment was about the development as a whole and not particularly the Brook Park Mayor. Yeah, I hate everything about this with a passion as one might be able to tell...

22 hours ago, dave2017 said:

When the mayor of Brook Park states he believes this stadium should last 50 years is laughable.  No billionaire will keep the stadium for that long. They all want the shiniest new object funded by the taxpayer's.   

 

Having moved here from New Orleans with a 53 year old Super Dome, I think its possible... but a domed stadium in whats basically a suburban office park isnt gonna do it.

 

The chance to put something iconic and lasting on the lake would be a legacy-defining achievement. Instead, as of right now, it seems like most Clevelanders will be happy when the haslams are gone.

11 hours ago, daybreaker said:

 

Having moved here from New Orleans with a 53 year old Super Dome, I think its possible... but a domed stadium in whats basically a suburban office park isnt gonna do it.

 

The chance to put something iconic and lasting on the lake would be a legacy-defining achievement. Instead, as of right now, it seems like most Clevelanders will be happy when the haslams are gone.

Being a stadium that is built in the 70s gives it historical cache it is deemed as iconic so it won't go anywhere. The stadiums built in the 90s to now which most are won't have that same grace or iconic status. They are seen as more throwaways, the Superdome is almost as untouchable as Lambeau field or Wrigley.

opinion from rep. max miller...

 

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2025/02/brook-park-dome-is-a-transformational-opportunity-for-cuyahoga-county-max-miller.html

"This project could infuse more than $3 billion into our regional economy."

 

HAH!

1 hour ago, TBideon said:

"This project could infuse more than $3 billion into our regional economy."

 

HAH!

These Haslam shills continue to spout nonsense about billions in the regional economy by comparing this stagnant region to places like Indy and DET, metros that are either exponentially larger or are actually getting bigger with population and jobs. Cleveland is none of that

2 hours ago, lockdog said:

opinion from rep. max miller...

 

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2025/02/brook-park-dome-is-a-transformational-opportunity-for-cuyahoga-county-max-miller.html

another HSG perfectly timed PR roll-out and just ahead of DeWine's state budget expected Monday containing the likely big Haslam payoff. The PD piece reads soulless and a combo of AI and HSG interns. I amy be wrong, but I don't recall his Forest City family ever taking such a stand against downtown during their time.  

 

Very concerning when I can write more accuracies on the back of a postage stamp about this project than very well paid public officials. 

10 hours ago, TBideon said:

"This project could infuse more than $3 billion into our regional economy."

 

HAH!

Yes, in construction and materials. Once that is done so is the infusing.

The public needs to pay attention to certain words that are used as selling points.  "Could" and "should" are not guarantees of what will happen. They are merely used to make one think it is possible as a reason to buy into this.   This development is nothing new to any new concept that already exists in Cleveland. All it does is to borrow from other ideas that worked and concentrate all profits for The Haslams and their business partners.  The concept of it being great for Cuyahoga County and Cleveland is a false narrative unless true facts are presented.  No guarantee of  a Super Bowl, conventions, NCAA Tournaments are locked in . All speculative.  

 

Another oddity for me is the idea of a domed stadium. Yet all the surrounding development is an outdoor mall!  

 

 

I think Myles just officially killed this today.

Proposal to increase gaming to help fund stadiums in ohio?  https://fox8.com/news/dewine-proposes-significantly-raising-gaming-tax-to-help-fund-ohio-sports-stadiums/

Instead of giving the Browns a lump sum of money, DeWine proposes adjusting the sports gaming tax and creating the sports construction & education fund for any professional team.

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/ohio-gov-mike-dewine-proposes-money-for-browns-stadium-public-schools-in-218b-state-budget

"Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine's proposed $218 billion state budget would fully fund public education, make marijuana more expensive and would raise taxes on sports betting companies to help fund projects like the Cleveland Browns stadium renovation."

 

I find it very interesting that a renovation of the current stadium is mentioned, and not to help fund a new dome in Brook Park.