11 hours ago, simplythis said:

First Look at new Dawg Pound https://fox8.com/news/i-team/inside-look-at-plans-for-new-dawg-pound-in-brook-park-dome/ 

This designer is slick he touched on all our trigger words: Dawg Pound, SuperBowl, the historic Arcade and Rock Hall.

 

i wish these alleged investigative reporters would have asked about his Lakefront designs. Where are those plans?  No curiosity from these two.
 

If this designer wanted the BP dome roof to reference the Arcade and Rock Hall, I am sure the Lakefront design could do the same - in the nearby shadow of both tourist sites. Why feign to emulate them but build it in a dreary distant location. 

 

Also, the Dawg Pound location should happen organically by ticket holders not by being shoehorned into a walled in gimmicky cattle ghetto.

 

10 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

The city could get its act together to be its most presentable to the multitudes that would come to an even like the Superbowl. Look at how Atlanta pulled it together for the Olympics 30 years ago. The promise of one could jumpstart stadium, hotel and airport construction to an extent. I'd be happy that we would then have all that infrastructure to host more large events or simultaneous mid sized events to compete with Indy and Cbus and every other city that we compete against for these events.

All the more reason to invest in a downtown location.   

10 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

Booster pride was never in it. I was speaking logically. And if the NFL doled out the event like it does the draft or how the NBA and MLB assign their respective all star games, then cities that meet the requirement should be in the running to host.

 

The requirements are a certain number of hotel rooms and an indoor stadium if in a cold weather climate, or be a city with a stadium with a mild winter.

 

Miami had superbowls rained out and is/was a logistics nightmare. There's downsides to some of the cities you mentioned, let's not act like their perfect.

 

The city could get its act together to be its most presentable to the multitudes that would come to an even like the Superbowl. Look at how Atlanta pulled it together for the Olympics 30 years ago. The promise of one could jumpstart stadium, hotel and airport construction to an extent. I'd be happy that we would then have all that infrastructure to host more large events or simultaneous mid sized events to compete with Indy and Cbus and every other city that we compete against for these events.

 

I think this is the right way to think about it.  Cleveland would likely meet the minimum hotel requirement by the time a new dome is built, and I can't imagine they'd build a stadium that wasn't expandable to 70,000 for the super bowl.  The truth is that there isn't a single indoor stadium in the NFL that hasn't hosted a Super Bowl, so we shouldn't act like it's impossible.  It wouldn't surprise me if the NFL guaranteed a super bowl as part of the deal to build the stadium.  Every other new dome has hosted a super bowl within 2-4 years of opening (Detroit, Indy, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Dallas, Phoenix, LA, Las Vegas, Houston).

How bout that new Dawg Pound lol

 

 

Imagine some Haslam sycophant actually getting excited over the sterile AI art.

 

Give me a minute on Gemini and I'll vomit something comparable. 

😂

 

Oh yeah, the authenticity of the dogpound, in the soulless, sanitised, corporate world of modern NFL stadiums, they are all for the average joe huh. F*ck me. Sadly though there are some people dumb enough to lap that absolute tripe right up.

there's a cosm in one of the renderings on the fox8 story

19 hours ago, roman totale XVII said:

“The Dawg Pound is known world-wide”. I’m sorry, but it totally isn’t. 

Just another journal piece to get guys like Jeff Phelps to yell "shut up and take my money!"

4 hours ago, snakebite said:

😂

 

Oh yeah, the authenticity of the dogpound, in the soulless, sanitised, corporate world of modern NFL stadiums, they are all for the average joe huh. F*ck me. Sadly though there are some people dumb enough to lap that absolute tripe right up.

Can't wait to hear who the "Dawg Pound" sponsor will be. Bets on "The University Hospitals DAWG POUND?"

27 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Can't wait to hear who the "Dawg Pound" sponsor will be. Bets on "The University Hospitals DAWG POUND?"

I would expect something a little more blue collar, like "The Ken Ganley Kia Dawg Pound," feating pictures of a beaming Mackenzie, with her long flowing MAGA extensions.  

17 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

there's a cosm in one of the renderings on the fox8 story

This cartoon picture pretends it is located in a tranquil setting as Blossom and not the actual gritty, dirty and noisy site surrounded by major highways with a parade of non-stop gas and diesel belching vehicles and trucks.  Also, where is the acknowledgment of the FAA flight path of landing aircraft in the cartoon pic - not whisper quiet? While all of the accompanying air and noise pollution could be overlooked on game day, what about year round for visitors/ residents to the purported Jimmy world village. The designer featured in the Fox8 puff piece may need design a dome over the entire site in further reference to the Arcade and Rock Hall roofs as he alleged his dome design emulates. 

I mean, a Cosm would be awesome, but...

 

 

Put it in the Bedrock Riverfront plans

1 hour ago, daybreaker said:

I mean, a Cosm would be awesome, but...

 

 

Put it in the Bedrock Riverfront plans

Before I saw the text before the GIF I was going to say the same thing. At least let downtown have a few things.... 

3 hours ago, daybreaker said:

I mean, a Cosm would be awesome, but...

 

 

Put it in the Bedrock Riverfront plans

 

Since Gilbert and Blitzer are Cosm investors, and not the Haslams, I'm pretty sure it will be in Gateway.  The first part if Part 1B of Bedrock's plan, which is more or less underway, includes an entertainment venue.

Browns detail their Brook Park stadium financing plans for the first time

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/browns-detail-their-brook-park-stadium-financing-plans-for-the-first-time?fbclid=IwY2xjawIbPLlleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHaJUed5yConLFMRhzS5vMBlzwFVEGqcvle6yLGLza2Rk-iJTQdyKk4PQnA_aem_c9zdvIG8MjO15CHMSfMqqA

Jimbo’s PR team on a full court press this last couple weeks. 

 

" It’s working at the public financing, and that will happen over the next four and a half months."

 

Damnit, Jimmy's nose just poked through my computer screen and knocked over my coffee.

 

He's expecting to resolve this by July? Laughable. 

 

It isn't happening, criminal.

I've got a counter-story coming, probably in the morning.

I found it rich that they were trying to argue that the traffic situation would be BETTER in the suburbs. 

 

I also can't imagine who he's referring to in the "I think we have a good team" line. Certainly isn't the team on the field. And so far, I've found the off the field team even less impressive, which is honestly a feat. 

La dee da, la dee dum, reddit says NFL is potentially offering Browns a draft in exchange for the domed stadium. 

 

F that. 

^^So, bar a few years in the late 90s, from the mid-40s until today, fans had to put up with traffic problems at the lakefront stadium. Only now has Jimmy-boy had the vision to see what other have been missing all this time and fix this problem that’s gone unrecognized and unsolved for almost 80 years! When’s his statue being built?

Have they ever said who the proposed owners of the stadium are going to be? Is it going to the Browns, or will the public have to pay future maintenance costs too (like now)?

from the PD Article:

 

Browns unveil financing plan for $2.4B dome stadium in Brook Park

Rich Exner - Cleveland.com - Feb. 13, 2025

 

"Haslam said that since the bonds would be issued by the county and the state, he conceded that those governments would be on the hook if something unexpected fell through on the anticipated revenue. But he said the Browns have been very conservative in their calculations, and provisions still could be written into the agreements to address concerns. ... They said they weren’t yet able to share a similar projection for the proposed county bonds. ... 'We have had productive meetings (with the Browns) of late, most principally on the lakefront plan,' Ronayne said. 'So, we were surprised at their press briefing, as it relates to their plans at Brook Park.'"

5 minutes ago, NorthShore647 said:

from the PD Article:

 

Browns unveil financing plan for $2.4B dome stadium in Brook Park

Rich Exner - Cleveland.com - Feb. 13, 2025

 

"Haslam said that since the bonds would be issued by the county and the state, he conceded that those governments would be on the hook if something unexpected fell through on the anticipated revenue. But he said the Browns have been very conservative in their calculations, and provisions still could be written into the agreements to address concerns. ... They said they weren’t yet able to share a similar projection for the proposed county bonds. ... 'We have had productive meetings (with the Browns) of late, most principally on the lakefront plan,' Ronayne said. 'So, we were surprised at their press briefing, as it relates to their plans at Brook Park.'"

 

Haslam: "yes taxpayers would be on the hook if our anticipated revenue projections fell short"

 

Also Haslam "no we can't share data for the county projections yet"

 

ALSO "make the decision now so we can have shovels in the ground within the year"

I would like Ronayne to state what has been discussed with HSG regarding the lakefront location option. Everything about Brook Park seems shady

 

lol guys worth 12 billion and is interested in being a parking lot barron.  

 

I've never seen so little public support for a team trying to build a new stadium.

 

Ronayne ‘optimistic’ about Browns staying downtown
By Ken Prendergast / February 13, 2025

 

Active discussions between the city of Cleveland, Cuyahoga County and the owners of the Cleveland Browns are back on for the $1.2 billion renovation of the city-owned, 1999-built stadium on Downtown Cleveland’s lakefront, Cuyahoga County Executive Chris Ronayne told NEOtrans in an interview today.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/02/13/ronayne-optimistic-about-browns-staying-downtown/

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Ronayne ‘optimistic’ about Browns staying downtown
By Ken Prendergast / February 13, 2025

 

Active discussions between the city of Cleveland, Cuyahoga County and the owners of the Cleveland Browns are back on for the $1.2 billion renovation of the city-owned, 1999-built stadium on Downtown Cleveland’s lakefront, Cuyahoga County Executive Chris Ronayne told NEOtrans in an interview today.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/02/13/ronayne-optimistic-about-browns-staying-downtown/

When the city and county are on the same page positive things happen. 

 

I predicted this could be similar to a Chicago Bears situation.

On the previous page I asked the question is it possible to build a stadium at BKL while it remains open, while at the same time planning its eventual closing. There are pages of evidence that it has been done through a simple google search.  Here is the general rule from the FAA Federal law requires that the FAA determine whether a structure that is proposed to be built or altered, 200 feet above ground level (AGL) or higher, or near an airport, does not pose a hazard to the airspace. Basically you have to prove it wont interfere with take offs and landings..

I wish we could hear more from the city/county regarding other options. Like the Post office site and other properties around it.  If Haslem would consider sites for a dome in Cleveland he wouldn't have this public relations nightmare. Hes got enough of those as it is.

 

County is caught off guard. County leaders say they will get nothing. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-domed-stadium-brook-park-financing-plan-haslams-sports-group-cuyahoga-county/95-8dfcb7b0-7091-4c05-90e1-5458cfe2db08

^confused. am i missing that in the story you posted?

Edited February 14Feb 14 by Whipjacka

oh

https://www.wkyc.com/video/sports/nfl/browns/a-hail-mary-cuyahoga-county-executive-questions-financing-plan-for-new-cleveland-browns-stadium/95-df503ebe-6e36-4cc8-ae84-bac3baa80939

Even though the lease at the lakefront stadium is to expire in 2028, why isn't their discussion to extend a lease per an additional season as needed to complete at the best ideal location rather than settle on Brook Park as the only viable option?  If we are all comfortable with a better location and "additional costs" are reasonable in an extended timeline why rush this just so Jimmy can get his way with our team

$422 million bond contributions from Brookpark?

 

Orcutt better be auditing finance classes when taking a breather from Amber's Cabaret and Crazy Horse. For a city with 18,000 people, if Brookpark can pay $422 million, they can pay the $1.2 billion plus overruns plus 30 years of maintenance plus highway improvements -- and be done with it.

6 hours ago, TBideon said:

$422 million bond contributions from Brookpark?

 

Orcutt better be auditing finance classes when taking a breather from Amber's Cabaret and Crazy Horse. For a city with 18,000 people, if Brookpark can pay $422 million, they can pay the $1.2 billion plus overruns plus 30 years of maintenance plus highway improvements -- and be done with it.

It still surprises me now that we know all we do, that they chose Brook Park as their suburban site of choice. It was initially said that Brook Park came out ahead of other sites due to its access to the RTA but its clear they could not care less about the RTA. If they truly had no consideration for public transport then the Independence area is far more desirable in my view with its cluster of Class A office space and it is generally a much more cleaned up area with less blight and garbage like strip clubs. It is also more centrally located to the wider North East Ohio region. Perception is everything and no real estate investor would ever advise placing high end development near industrial areas and "gentlemens clubs", its not conducive to hosting large scale major events which has been a major fallacy in terms of creating the attraction of this project. Take one look at the Brook Park area, it is not a positive image for North East Ohio, urban or suburban.

Edited February 14Feb 14 by CLE2BAL

11 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Ronayne ‘optimistic’ about Browns staying downtown
By Ken Prendergast / February 13, 2025

 

Active discussions between the city of Cleveland, Cuyahoga County and the owners of the Cleveland Browns are back on for the $1.2 billion renovation of the city-owned, 1999-built stadium on Downtown Cleveland’s lakefront, Cuyahoga County Executive Chris Ronayne told NEOtrans in an interview today.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/02/13/ronayne-optimistic-about-browns-staying-downtown/

Great news on Valentine’s Day Ken!
Valentine’s Day thanks to Ronayne and Bibb!

Can HSG’s funding schemes get anymore sketchy? 

The model we’ve proposed on the state level would leverage only the incremental tax revenues from within the (Brook Park) development itself to enable the project,” said Dave Jenkins, HSG’s chief operating officer said in a recent press statement. The funding practice is commonly called “value capture.”

 

It may “enable” construction on the front end but I smell I big taxpayer liability when the projected revenues never materialize. Maybe if they kill the surrounding development and instead surround the dome with park-n-ride airport parking- otherwise as Jimmy would say in Tenn. that dog won’t hunt.

2 hours ago, CLE2BAL said:

It still surprises me now that we know all we do, that they chose Brook Park as their suburban site of choice. It was initially said that Brook Park came out ahead of other sites due to its access to the RTA but its clear they could not care less about the RTA. If they truly had no consideration for public transport then the Independence area is far more desirable in my view with its cluster of Class A office space and it is generally a much more cleaned up area with less blight and garbage like strip clubs. It is also more centrally located to the wider North East Ohio region. Perception is everything and no real estate investor would ever advise placing high end development near industrial areas and "gentlemens clubs", its not conducive to hosting large scale major events which has been a major fallacy in terms of creating the attraction of this project. Take one look at the Brook Park area, it is not a positive image for North East Ohio, urban or suburban.

 

Some good points, I would agree if you take public transport out of the equation which is the better option. I mean that site personally is not my cup of tea either, its still in the suburbs and in a small municipality which I would heavily question if it could provide adequate funding for this but as far as demographics, surrounding uses etc theres no question which stacks up better if you're just doing straight up suburb v suburb. A site like Independence though because of containing more immediate competition and actually having basic sidewalks on its periphery would be a bigger risk to their plans to control every bit of revenue, even if its just some chain crap on individual parcel plots. I think this shows its also not merely just an anti-urban mindset, Haslam after all did develop Astor Park in Columbus. Its simply about controlling and squeezing every last cent whether its a Lakefront site or one in Independence. He sees both of those as having adjacent threats and ultimately that is part of Brook Park's undoing because it just really is not an appealing place without an NFL stadium and thus it has major questions about its sustainability. They've been so determined to prevent anything interfering with their theme park that they have forgotten theres a reason in the first instance that it is just not a desirable place otherwise. They've cut their nose off to spite their face, they didn't pick Downtown or even a decent suburb. They picked an isolated pretty s**t area thinking they could create this walled off palace with no competition and now they're reaping the consequences of that decision at this time which is a stalemate in paying for the sham.

Edited February 14Feb 14 by snakebite

Cleveland would be better off financially supporting an effort to turn Cleveland State into a football school.  They would increase the desirability of the school and avoid the constant threat of hostage taking by self interested billionaires.  OSU benefits Columbus more than the Browns do Cleveland.  

8 hours ago, TBideon said:

$422 million bond contributions from Brookpark?

 

Orcutt better be auditing finance classes when taking a breather from Amber's Cabaret and Crazy Horse. For a city with 18,000 people, if Brookpark can pay $422 million, they can pay the $1.2 billion plus overruns plus 30 years of maintenance plus highway improvements -- and be done with it.

 

That $422 million bond issue would be serviced by tax revenues generated by the stadium, as noted in the fine print. It doesn't matter if the stadium and its supportive development is located in Cleveland, Brook Park or Valley City. They all have the legal ability to establish taxes and legal mechanisms for the issuance and servicing of bonds. Whether those revenues can be successfully generated is up to the Haslams to create the taxable activity. That's where the debate lies, not in the legal powers of an incorporated municipality.

2 hours ago, CLE2BAL said:

It still surprises me now that we know all we do, that they chose Brook Park as their suburban site of choice. It was initially said that Brook Park came out ahead of other sites due to its access to the RTA but its clear they could not care less about the RTA. If they truly had no consideration for public transport then the Independence area is far more desirable in my view with its cluster of Class A office space and it is generally a much more cleaned up area with less blight and garbage like strip clubs. It is also more centrally located to the wider North East Ohio region. Perception is everything and no real estate investor would ever advise placing high end development near industrial areas and "gentlemens clubs", its not conducive to hosting large scale major events which has been a major fallacy in terms of creating the attraction of this project. Take one look at the Brook Park area, it is not a positive image for North East Ohio, urban or suburban.

My bet is that there was nothing more to it than....

 

1: A cheap, already flat piece of land with highway access.  

 

2: No competition to take any parking or pregame/overall gameday revenue from adjacent properties. And no real opportunity for someone to build that competition because the property is boxed in by highways and the airport. 

 

The fact that it is next to existing Browns facilities is a bonus. 

This is shaping up to go down like it did in Virginia where it wasn't clear Ted Leonsis' new arena development near DCA was dead until the assembly finally voted on it. We probably won't know what's up with this until June and at that point who knows what the economy/state budget will look like. It seems like the state Republicans are primed to roll over for the Haslams but you never know what could happen when it comes up to vote and maybe the economy isn't looking very good and federal funding is disappearing.

@PlanCleveland Hit it on the nose. 

I think it is being massively understated how time consuming and difficult it is to acquire property of this size, especially so when it involves multiple owners. You can't just force someone to sell their land, even if you throw unlimited $ at them. 

Brook Park is an open expanse of basically undeveloped land at this point where moving existing utilities won't be overly complicated and you have limited obstacles planning out a large scale development like this. From a developers standpoint, you don't get much more "development ready" than a site like this in Cuyahoga County. 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

That $422 million bond issue would be serviced by tax revenues generated by the stadium, as noted in the fine print. It doesn't matter if the stadium and its supportive development is located in Cleveland, Brook Park or Valley City. They all have the legal ability to establish taxes and legal mechanisms for the issuance and servicing of bonds. Whether those revenues can be successfully generated is up to the Haslams to create the taxable activity. That's where the debate lies, not in the legal powers of an incorporated municipality.

Ah, so if Cuyahoga County doesn't play ball, Brook Park can provide the bonds.  😁 

I'm in favor!  Good luck BP!

3 hours ago, CLE2BAL said:

It still surprises me now that we know all we do, that they chose Brook Park as their suburban site of choice. It was initially said that Brook Park came out ahead of other sites due to its access to the RTA but its clear they could not care less about the RTA. If they truly had no consideration for public transport then the Independence area is far more desirable in my view with its cluster of Class A office space and it is generally a much more cleaned up area with less blight and garbage like strip clubs. It is also more centrally located to the wider North East Ohio region. Perception is everything and no real estate investor would ever advise placing high end development near industrial areas and "gentlemens clubs", its not conducive to hosting large scale major events which has been a major fallacy in terms of creating the attraction of this project. Take one look at the Brook Park area, it is not a positive image for North East Ohio, urban or suburban.

Hey, maybe the area is what they're going for. Have you seen the kinds of players this team will shell out big money and trade assets for?

21 minutes ago, Foraker said:

Ah, so if Cuyahoga County doesn't play ball, Brook Park can provide the bonds.  😁 

I'm in favor!  Good luck BP!

 

No, because Cuyahoga County holds the key to the sin tax and collects taxes on other activities that would be amplified by the Brook Park stadium. They want the participation of nearly all of the non-use-specific taxing districts affected (ie: except county library, Metroparks, RTA, etc).

Funding. Who pays for what and where will it be built? Sure but really, it seems the whole thing boils down to parking. Jimmy wants the easy and low hanging fruit. The stadium is complicated because of the wrangling over who contributes what and that is contigent on the location. The surrounding entertainment district is complicated because who knows if there will be any patrons on non-game days. Doubtful, which makes it tricky to lease. But parking. That appears to be the key piece here.

 

There may have been a cursory discussion by the pertinent parties over parking but if so l haven't read much about it. Could a solution that gives everyone something be as simple as finding a way to give Jimmy control of new parking lots around a new stadium on the lakefront? There is quite a lot of empty land down there right now. It's likely to remain empty too. Could the city/county work with HSG to allow them to turn that land into parking that could be used for all new development around a new stadium on the lakefront? If were talking billions for new development either in BP or on the lakefront it seems turning over land that is presently way underutilized for new parking for a massive new lakefront neighborhood is not too much to ask. Let Jimmy control it. Look at it as an investment by the city/county or leverage to get this done. 

 

56 minutes ago, cadmen said:

Funding. Who pays for what and where will it be built? Sure but really, it seems the whole thing boils down to parking. Jimmy wants the easy and low hanging fruit. The stadium is complicated because of the wrangling over who contributes what and that is contigent on the location. The surrounding entertainment district is complicated because who knows if there will be any patrons on non-game days. Doubtful, which makes it tricky to lease. But parking. That appears to be the key piece here.

 

There may have been a cursory discussion by the pertinent parties over parking but if so l haven't read much about it. Could a solution that gives everyone something be as simple as finding a way to give Jimmy control of new parking lots around a new stadium on the lakefront? There is quite a lot of empty land down there right now. It's likely to remain empty too. Could the city/county work with HSG to allow them to turn that land into parking that could be used for all new development around a new stadium on the lakefront? If were talking billions for new development either in BP or on the lakefront it seems turning over land that is presently way underutilized for new parking for a massive new lakefront neighborhood is not too much to ask. Let Jimmy control it. Look at it as an investment by the city/county or leverage to get this done. 

 

What if I actively don't want our lakefront to be a sea of parking? I'd rather send the Browns to Brook Park then surrender our Lakefront to surface parking. 

23 minutes ago, Ethan said:

What if I actively don't want our lakefront to be a sea of parking? I'd rather send the Browns to Brook Park then surrender our Lakefront to surface parking. 

What is the county/port financed a mixed use development with parking ramps that included top floor residential and ground floor retail/restaurants? 

 

I've mentioned this several times upthread over the last couple years.  Let Jimmy take the revenue on game days and we get the development the other 350 days a year. 

7 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

What is the county/port financed a mixed use development with parking ramps that included top floor residential and ground floor retail/restaurants? 

 

I've mentioned this several times upthread over the last couple years.  Let Jimmy take the revenue on game days and we get the development the other 350 days a year. 

I'd be fine with this, in fact I'd support it. My opposition is primarily to surface parking. If the parking is on a different level from the ground, either elevated above or dug beneath it, it ranges from a necessary evil, to a boon depending on the execution and context. I'd love a downtown or near downtown stadium if the parking is contained in such a way that allows the stadium to have reasonably good urban form. If it has a dome all the better. Just don't destroy the urban form of the city, and don't screw over the taxpayers. Simple. 

24 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

What is the county/port financed a mixed use development with parking ramps that included top floor residential and ground floor retail/restaurants? 

 

I've mentioned this several times upthread over the last couple years.  Let Jimmy take the revenue on game days and we get the development the other 350 days a year. 

Just build a copy of Dublin's Bridge Park development on the north side of the stadium. Then the park space along the water and the land bridge funneling people into it from the transit stop, Downtown, and the Convention Center. They have like 2500-3000 public parking spaces in 3 or 4 garages wrapped in mixed use development. Then

 

Call it....

 

Drum roll....

 

The LAND Bridge Park. 

 

Land bridge, The Land, and Bridge Park all in one. Contact me for any other Cleveland marketing ideas you need.