2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

No, because Cuyahoga County holds the key to the sin tax and collects taxes on other activities that would be amplified by the Brook Park stadium. They want the participation of nearly all of the non-use-specific taxing districts affected (ie: except county library, Metroparks, RTA, etc).

I'm probably missing some pieces, but I am ok with the County continuing to contribute whatever they are now contributing from the sin taxes, etc.  But no new money, no new county-owned-debt if the Browns want to move out of downtown.  If Haslam can build Haslam-world and keep the parking fees, more power to him.  But we cannot add to the County debt.  (And certainly not on the City of Cleveland's dime!)

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

What if I actively don't want our lakefront to be a sea of parking? I'd rather send the Browns to Brook Park then surrender our Lakefront to surface parking. 

 

It doesn't have to be a sea of parking lots. It could be a combination of open lots and garages. Right now there is a ton of empty land between the stadium and river. This is a chance to pair some of it with lakefront development. If the Browns leave downtown who knows when something worthwhile will get built in the area. At the very least it will takes decades to fill in that land with things that will get people down there. We don't live in a thriving area. We also have some very expensive projects in the pipeline. Getting all of them done will be iffy at best. 

 

That's why l think this gives us our best shot at keeping the Browns downtown while at the same time creating a

lakefront neighborhood. If we do it right we can balance everyones interests. Jimmy gets his parking (both lots and garages), we finally get a lakefront and new hillside neighborhood and we keep a major asset (Browns) downtown. Doing all this will inject activity and dollars into the heart of the region instead of contributing to more useless sprawl.

 

 

If Haslam expects 100 percent of the parking  profits should go to himself than he and his investors should pay for the entire complex without public subsidies.  I'm tired of the handouts given to these billionaires whom say this is all for the benefit for us.  

From Ken's article

 

>  Renovation of the lakefront stadium or even interim repairs to it, estimated at $120 million, doesn’t preclude a domed stadium at Burke, officials have said.

 

Interim repairs while Burke takes a few years to close & then a few years for the new stadium has been my #1 option that I've been pushing on here for a few months now. I'm going to manifest this through sheer will power. Seems like its an option that is realistically on the table!

Edited February 14Feb 14 by daybreaker

I like it.  We get rid of Burke and we get a new stadium in Cleveland.   

1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I like it.  We get rid of Burke and we get a new stadium in Cleveland.   

*A new lakefront neighborhood hopefully 

On 2/13/2025 at 4:45 PM, brownsfan1226 said:

I found it rich that they were trying to argue that the traffic situation would be BETTER in the suburbs. 

 

I also can't imagine who he's referring to in the "I think we have a good team" line. Certainly isn't the team on the field. And so far, I've found the off the field team even less impressive, which is honestly a feat. 

"I found it rich that they were trying to argue that the traffic situation would be BETTER in the suburbs. " This is down right asinine and hilarious. Anyone with a car can see traffic is worse in the burbs compared to downtown, especially during rush hour. 

11 hours ago, OH_Really said:

Cleveland would be better off financially supporting an effort to turn Cleveland State into a football school.  They would increase the desirability of the school and avoid the constant threat of hostage taking by self interested billionaires.  OSU benefits Columbus more than the Browns do Cleveland.  

Uh yea...it's not because of Ohio State Football though...

Brown's once again say Modell law is unconstitutional. https://www.cleveland19.com/2025/02/15/browns-say-modell-law-unconstitutional-new-motion/

Reading their motion just proves the arrogance of HSG wanting everyone to agree that they know best what Clevelanders want.  Their argument this development will bring "major international events" that wouldn't come to the area if their stadium isn't built is speculative with no real proof of any such bookings.  The development surrounding a roofed stadium is not a proven destination for use 365 days a year.  I don't see people flocking to this location as an entertainment destination other than some chain restaurants and retail stores.  

 

The more I read and hear HSG's lawsuits to prove The Modell Law unconstitutional the more I detest them.  This law was designed to protect us from ever going through what an owner can do without caring about the fans.  I do hope the law is upheld and maybe we can get an owner whom cares about a winning team and not just lining their pockets 

On 2/11/2025 at 10:14 AM, acd said:

there isn't a single indoor stadium in the NFL that hasn't hosted a Super Bowl

FWIW - yes every active NFL dome has hosted a Super Bowl however:

 

• The Astrodome never hosted a Super Bowl
• The Kingdome never hosted a Super Bowl
• The RCA Dome never hosted a Super Bowl
• The still standing and mostly empty Dome at America's Center (Trans World/Edward Jones Dome) also never hosted

 

These four venues were the home stadium of an NFL team for a combined 92 seasons. 

3 hours ago, NorthShore647 said:

FWIW - yes every active NFL dome has hosted a Super Bowl however:

 

• The Astrodome never hosted a Super Bowl
• The Kingdome never hosted a Super Bowl
• The RCA Dome never hosted a Super Bowl
• The still standing and mostly empty Dome at America's Center (Trans World/Edward Jones Dome) also never hosted

 

These four venues were the home stadium of an NFL team for a combined 92 seasons. 

 

Yes it is possible that Cleveland would get a Super Bowl if we build a dome, but it is in no way a certainty. If it was, then we should get some sort of confirmation from the league. Instead of the league talking about a potential Super Bowl, they are “dangling another NFL draft” for Cleveland. 

 

The Draft, an event so big that this years will be in the nations 157th largest metro around the league's 2nd oldest stadium. I don’t think we need a dome for a draft.

1 hour ago, NorthShore647 said:

 

Yes it is possible that Cleveland would get a Super Bowl if we build a dome, but it is in no way a certainty. If it was, then we should get some sort of confirmation from the league. Instead of the league talking about a potential Super Bowl, they are “dangling another NFL draft” for Cleveland. 

 

The Draft, an event so big that this years will be in the nations 157th largest metro around the league's 2nd oldest stadium. I don’t think we need a dome for a draft.

As you can see from 2021, we clearly don't. Frankly you don't even need a football stadium. 

2 hours ago, NorthShore647 said:

 

Yes it is possible that Cleveland would get a Super Bowl if we build a dome, but it is in no way a certainty. If it was, then we should get some sort of confirmation from the league. Instead of the league talking about a potential Super Bowl, they are “dangling another NFL draft” for Cleveland. 

 

The Draft, an event so big that this years will be in the nations 157th largest metro around the league's 2nd oldest stadium. I don’t think we need a dome for a draft.

The 2021 draft was held in a muddy parking lot outside the existing stadium.  Definitely not a requirement.  

 

Cleveland is suffering from a shortage of hotel rooms that the NFL will be wary of (along with weather for travel and the litany of outdoor events leading up to the game). 

3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

The 2021 draft was held in a muddy parking lot outside the existing stadium.  Definitely not a requirement.  

 

Cleveland is suffering from a shortage of hotel rooms that the NFL will be wary of (along with weather for travel and the litany of outdoor events leading up to the game). 

How many Airbnb’s/VRBO’s are in the metro area? Is that not part of the equation in today’s society? Shouldn’t it be? And not just per unit, but the capacity of each unit as well. My friends and I often use them for gathering a large group get together.
 

1 ABB should not equal 1 hotel room, is what I’m saying.

Veiled threats begin?  “I don’t know, if we don’t do Brook Park and we pass on it this time, anybody is ever going to put $2 billion of private money into Cuyahoga County,” Jimmy Haslam said. “We found 175 acres that is flat, has power, which is a big deal, is clean environmentally and is serviced by a major state highway and two interstates – all right across from the airport. … I just don’t think you’re going to find that again.”

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2025/02/browns-unveil-financing-plan-for-24b-dome-stadium-in-brook-park.html

 

We think?  The time to do this is now,” Jimmy Haslam said. “We have the property, we have the energy, we think we have the financing.” 

 

And since when has this been a top 10 problem for Browns fans?  Maybe to Jimmy only when you don’t own all of the parking?  "Unfortunately, being on the lakefront initially sounds good, but you have all been to our games, it is a hassle to get in and out of there,” Haslam said. “And there’s no real way to fix it.”

 

No way to fix it? Jimmy now pretends to not know about the plans and millions already awarded to revamp the roads and lakefront access. Shame,

 

https://signalcleveland.org/browns-owners-dee-jimmy-haslam-argue-for-brook-park-stadium/

 

Quote

if we don’t do Brook Park and we pass on it this time, anybody is ever going to put $2 billion of private money into Cuyahoga County

 

...isnt the Bedrock Riverfront plan something like $3.5bil?

11 minutes ago, daybreaker said:

 

...isnt the Bedrock Riverfront plan something like $3.5bil?

Instantly what I thought of.

Plus it's only $2B because there is a friggin dome NFL stadium in the middle! This guy is getting high on his supply if he thinks we really believe this wannabe Pinecrest project is going to lead to economic development in this region. 

 

Hey, Dewine and state lawmakers, go to Washington and tell Elon to release the hundreds of millions in government funding to health, science, etc. that power countless jobs here already. Jimmyland is a giant parasite that I am feeling even more confident that in a year's time will be even more clear we cannot afford.

Edited February 16Feb 16 by coneflower

driving around downtown is pretty easy during November and December when the browns have 2-3 wins

Edited February 16Feb 16 by Whipjacka

13 hours ago, daybreaker said:

 

...isnt the Bedrock Riverfront plan something like $3.5bil?

The suburban people he's trying to rally here probably have no idea what those plans are. I know people who live Downtown who have never heard of it. 

16 hours ago, marty15 said:

How many Airbnb’s/VRBO’s are in the metro area? Is that not part of the equation in today’s society? Shouldn’t it be? And not just per unit, but the capacity of each unit as well. My friends and I often use them for gathering a large group get together.
 

1 ABB should not equal 1 hotel room, is what I’m saying.

These would be ok for fans but not appropriate for the large blocks booked by corporations for event workers, sponsors, etc.  

 

We could try the Jacksonville trick and have all those Great Lakes cruise ships winter in the port of Cleveland to add room capacity.  But this would make more sense still with a dome on the lakefront. 

16 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Instantly what I thought of.

And you'll have shills like Daryl Ruiter and Jeff Phelps parrot Jimmy's propaganda on the airways, influencing thousands of listeners to bend over backward for this grift project. Jimmy's gaslighting ranges from laughable to disgusting. 

the baskin and phelps discussion about this was crazy on Friday. they're not even making their best case - they just sound stupid

12 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

the baskin and phelps discussion about this was crazy on Friday. they're not even making their best case - they just sound stupid

 

I haven't listened to Baskin and Phelps in a while but even early on they never really sounded convincing. I thought it was pretty obvious they were being forced to support JimmyDome. Now Daryl on the other hand is just an annoying mindless parrot. 

37 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

And you'll have shills like Daryl Ruiter and Jeff Phelps parrot Jimmy's propaganda on the airways, influencing thousands of listeners to bend over backward for this grift project. Jimmy's gaslighting ranges from laughable to disgusting. 

I'm not sure it's working. I literally just clicked on a Cleveland.com Facebook post and 99% of the comments were negative.   For Cleveland.com, which is normally a home of suburban trolls, that's impressive. 

2 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I'm not sure it's working. I literally just clicked on a Cleveland.com Facebook post and 99% of the comments were negative.   For Cleveland.com, which is normally a home of suburban trolls, that's impressive. 

 

reddit's r/cleveland has been brutal. In the end what fans think or care about is largely going to be ignored anyhow. This is the NFL. It's a loge leage.   

The people of Brookpark continue to speak out against what they deem to be an intrusive development in their community. The... Football Stadium Gas Station?

 

Proposed Brook Park Circle K sparks heated debate

Maura Zurick - Cleveland.com - Feb. 17, 2025

 

"A proposal to rezone land for a new Circle K gas station and convenience store near residential properties reignited heated debate at a City Council meeting last Tuesday (Feb. 11). The measure, previously discussed in September, has been met with strong opposition from residents who have raised concerns over traffic congestion, safety and potential health hazards."

 

If they need a special meeting for a gas station after a heated council meeting, I wonder what resident opposition could look like if the time comes for stadium discussion/approval. 

That would be amazing if the stadium got NIMBY’d in the end, ha. UO can make this one exception to our position on NIMBYs.

13 hours ago, NorthShore647 said:

The people of Brookpark continue to speak out against what they deem to be an intrusive development in their community. The... Football Stadium Gas Station?

 

Proposed Brook Park Circle K sparks heated debate

Maura Zurick - Cleveland.com - Feb. 17, 2025

 

"A proposal to rezone land for a new Circle K gas station and convenience store near residential properties reignited heated debate at a City Council meeting last Tuesday (Feb. 11). The measure, previously discussed in September, has been met with strong opposition from residents who have raised concerns over traffic congestion, safety and potential health hazards."

 

If they need a special meeting for a gas station after a heated council meeting, I wonder what resident opposition could look like if the time comes for stadium discussion/approval. 

A circle K being causing traffic congestion but wanting a 70,000 seat stadium is crazy lol.

Edited February 18Feb 18 by MyPhoneDead

1 minute ago, MyPhoneDead said:

A circle K being causing traffic congestion but wanting a 70,000 foot stadium is crazy lol.

And the Browns stadium won't have Lawson's chip dip....

I team speaks to Mayor Bibb. https://fox8.com/news/i-team/bibb-on-browns-i-team-speaks-to-cleveland-mayor-one-on-one/

We asked the mayor, “If the Browns leave, does the City get a big payout of many hundreds of millions?”

 

I believe zero through f-k off dollars was the correct response. 

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/02/13/super-bowl-buzz-points-to-the-desert-again-for-29/

 

This article says the NFL is leaning toward going back to Las Vegas instead of Nashville in 2029 even though they will have a brand new stadium. The league wants to keep the Super Bowl in "tier 1" cities Los Angeles and Las Vegas as much as possible. Nashville will likely get one (maybe 2030) thanks to the town's reputation for being an entertainment center and party destination, although the article points out the city is on the small side.

 

This doesn't really bode well for Cleveland, it seems to me.

1 hour ago, coneflower said:

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/02/13/super-bowl-buzz-points-to-the-desert-again-for-29/

 

This article says the NFL is leaning toward going back to Las Vegas instead of Nashville in 2029 even though they will have a brand new stadium. The league wants to keep the Super Bowl in "tier 1" cities Los Angeles and Las Vegas as much as possible. Nashville will likely get one (maybe 2030) thanks to the town's reputation for being an entertainment center and party destination, although the article points out the city is on the small side.

 

This doesn't really bode well for Cleveland, it seems to me.

and even less for a BP site.

This Carin’s oped from Toby Cosgrove is a piece of work. He argues that to compete with places like Nashville to get young people to move here, we need a domed stadium and entertainment complex in Brook Park. But the current location on the lake is no good because it’s underutilized and something else would be better there. I guess no one on the Haslam’s team who helped him write this letter took a second to consider this logic makes no sense. 
 

Also, do we really want to listen to development views from the guy credited with inventing the “Medical Mart”?

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/commentary/letter-new-browns-stadium-generational-opportunity

 

^Ahh… the new silver bullet! I guess some of the local leaders believe every decade needs at least one silver bullet in Cleveland.  “If only we had a domed stadium in the suburbs, we could compete with cities such as Nashville”!

 

 

Edited February 22Feb 22 by Oldmanladyluck

Cosgrove has done a lot of great things for the region and saved an uncountable number of lives in Vietnam, Mass, Cleveland Clinic, and cardiothoracics.

 

Never mind his involvement in the Cleveland Clinic's global expansion.

 

It's a pretty benign, rah rah article. Let him say his piece.

 

Edited February 22Feb 22 by TBideon

42 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Cosgrove has done a lot of great things for the region and saved an uncountable number of lives in Vietnam, Mass, Cleveland Clinic, and cardiothoracics.

 

Never mind his involvement in the Cleveland Clinic's global expansion.

 

It's a pretty benign, rah rah article. Let him say his piece.

 

He can say his piece, and we can point out how it’s wrong. 

This from the guy behind the Clinic's sterile campus. Sure. He knows all about creating a cool environment for people to hang out in.

4 hours ago, coneflower said:

This Carin’s oped from Toby Cosgrove is a piece of work. He argues that to compete with places like Nashville to get young people to move here, we need a domed stadium and entertainment complex in Brook Park. But the current location on the lake is no good because it’s underutilized and something else would be better there. I guess no one on the Haslam’s team who helped him write this letter took a second to consider this logic makes no sense. 
 

Also, do we really want to listen to development views from the guy credited with inventing the “Medical Mart”?

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/commentary/letter-new-browns-stadium-generational-opportunity

 

Pure propaganda obviously written by the HSG student interns as evidenced by this:

 

An opportunity to redefine and enhance the city's image and attract business is uncommon. Even rarer is an entrepreneur, like the Haslams, willing to fund half the cost of the stadium. 

 

This puff piece was probably already written before Jimmy and Dee did a 180 to BP.  Just insert downtown or lakefront where BP is mentioned and it works.

 

and then drops the Taylor Swift economic development theory on us. Come on Toby!  Thank you for your service Toby! Now please stick to the dozens of corporate boards you are on and let this up to us and our leaders Ronayne and Bibb.

Toby Cosgrove actually lived in Hunting Valley, not Cleveland, as stated in the article. He does not acknowledge how the Browns' move to BP could negatively impact the core city of the region.

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2025/02/it-should-be-obvious-by-now-that-a-new-browns-stadium-belongs-in-brook-park-bob-paulson.html

 

Yet another pathetic Brook Park puff piece this morning. They aren't even creative. Just the same bad/misleading talking points over and over and over again. Although I guess at this point most of the American public has shown if you just say something enough it will become the truth. 

These articles tell me Jimmy is calling in his chits. He's donated to various people/organizations over the years. And like the godfather, he's making that call.

The Haslams are trying to expand a constituency to put pressure on the state lawmakers to create their preferred address-specific, value-capture funding mechanism. The ask requires lawmakers to pick a municipal winner and a loser, something the governor was unwilling to do, but certain lawmakers might.

 

But this isn't a clear-cut suburban Republican vs urban Democrat matter in which the Republicans could support the Haslams' preferred location/funding mechanism from the state to harm an urban Democratic powerbase. For Brook Park, yes the state senator (Patton) is a Republican but the state representative (Glassburn) is a Democrat. And Patton's district reaches into and includes portions of the city of Cleveland (Bellaire-Puritas, West Boulevard, Clark-Fulton, Old Brooklyn, etc). So geopolitically, this could prove difficult for the Haslams on the state level. We'll find out in a couple of months which way the wind is blowing.

With all of this funding uncertainty municipalities are facing this is the ABSOLUTE WORST TIME to be asking for public dollars. It's actually hilarious he is in the situation based on who he supports politically. 

7 hours ago, cadmen said:

These articles tell me Jimmy is calling in his chits. He's donated to various people/organizations over the years. And like the godfather, he's making that call.

True - it seems as if everyone in their politcal cocktail party rolodex has been given a cold pre-written op-ed to each to submit under their names hoping to influence the downstate legislators who know little or care not to learn about better alternatives to this sad story. 

On 2/15/2025 at 7:41 PM, Willo said:

We found 175 acres that is flat, has power, which is a big deal, is clean environmentally and is serviced by a major state highway and two interstates – all right across from the airport. … I just don’t think you’re going to find that again.”

Is he describing the Brook Park site, or the current stadium site?  Oh...never mind.  He must mean Brook Park, because he didn't mention the mass transit connections, thousands of hotels rooms, nearby bars, restaurants, structured parking, or adjacencies to museums, convention centers, and other regional attraction sin close proximity.

17 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

With all of this funding uncertainty municipalities are facing this is the ABSOLUTE WORST TIME to be asking for public dollars. It's actually hilarious he is in the situation based on who he supports politically. 

I think we'll see soon that the new vision of funding in America will be one based on people who are loyal and donate to Trump and MAGA candidates rather than helping all Americans.    If you want funding, you must kiss the ring.   So Jimmy may very well be able to pull it off.  

This video explains perfectly why want Haslam is saying about a Super Bowl isn't worth the paper it's written on.

https://youtu.be/3hxss3f5yfc?si=d-MAtc7LMQpbXMA7