An opportunity to make our opinion heard to Jimmy?? A guy can dream.... lol

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/03/05/brook-park-mayor-city-wont-approve-browns-deal-without-favorable-numbers/

 

Brook Park mayor: City won’t approve Browns deal without favorable numbers

 

Guessing Orcutt doesn't believe Deon's kid is the next Tom Brady.

 

"Orcutt said that the city has “yet to vet, in detail,” the plan the Browns released last month to pay for construction of a $2.4B covered stadium on 176 acres of former Ford Motor Co. property."

 

Tick tock buddy, tick tock. Fall of 2029 isn't too far off if you need three years for some fantasy dome. 

they should come up with an expected revenue over a span of time and demand the browns pay the difference if they don't hit it

Brook Park mayor 100% confident https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-domed-stadium-brook-park-mayor-ed-orcutt-progress-project-backstop-financial-update/95-957dc33f-9bd6-4243-8b32-261ef76fdf0d

9 hours ago, simplythis said:

Brook Park mayor 100% confident https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-domed-stadium-brook-park-mayor-ed-orcutt-progress-project-backstop-financial-update/95-957dc33f-9bd6-4243-8b32-261ef76fdf0d

Wanting Brook Park to pitch in $422 million when even Cleveland said that was their max is a tall task to ask for. 

^ it also means they're expecting ~800 million from the County and State. The County opposes this location (if not officially, in practice) and the State won't give this kind of money, at least not up front, they're afraid of precedent. 

 

At this point I'm starting to bet the can ends up getting kicked down road. 5 year lease extension at current location or something along those lines. The Haslams are getting close to their start by date, and as far as I can tell they are still short on public funding. 

^yeah I still cannot get over that Haslam is still including county money in his formula.

2 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Wanting Brook Park to pitch in $422 million when even Cleveland said that was their max is a tall task to ask for. 

 

The city contribution is based on the tax and parking revenues that can be generated by the facilities in each community. More revenues are possible with the proposed Brook Park location than with the existing downtown location. The municipality is merely a legal conduit through which the values can be captured. Scale of the project matters. Scale of the municipality does not. 

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

At this point I'm starting to bet the can ends up getting kicked down road. 5 year lease extension at current location or something along those lines. The Haslams are getting close to their start by date, and as far as I can tell they are still short on public funding. 

An extention is very possible, but the city will need to add several zeroes to the current $250,000/year of annual rent the day after the 2028 season, or develop an entirely new profit-sharing arrangement. No more near-free ride for the criminal.

 

Of all the embarassing deals involving the stadium's financing, and they are many, that one in particular is perhaps most infuriating. 

 

Edited March 7Mar 7 by TBideon

FWIW Bills Stadium went from $1.4B to now $2.2B. I know it's hard to project cost differences between states, but it sure seems like the $2.4B is going to be way off from their final price (which they'll be responsible for, but still). 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/stadium-costs-rise-bills-seek-001100980.html

Edited March 7Mar 7 by GISguy

45 minutes ago, GISguy said:

FWIW Bills Stadium went from $1.4B to now $2.2B. I know it's hard to project cost differences between states, but it sure seems like the $2.4B is going to be way off from their final price (which they'll be responsible for, but still). 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/stadium-costs-rise-bills-seek-001100980.html

Wow 2.2 Billion for an open air venue in Buffalo, NY. Lmao what a joke. Nashville new stadium is projected the same price and is much nicer. Something is definitely off in the world…….

Edited March 7Mar 7 by 646empire

Just now, 646empire said:

Wow 2.2 Billion for an open air venue in Buffalo, NY. Lmao what a joke.

 

The overruns would affect a dome too.

2 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Wow 2.2 Billion for an open air venue in Buffalo, NY. Lmao what a joke. Nashville new stadium is projected the same price and is much nicer. 

You missed the whole point of the comment you're replying to, there's a world of difference between projected price and actual price. Nashville will likely learn that, and so will Cleveland/Brook Park if a new stadium is built. So long as the Haslams have the overruns though it doesn't bother me much. 

What could the backstop possibly be that doesn't end up hurting BP residents? I feel like it's a near guarantee that the admissions and parking taxes will end up coming up short since we know this venue won't hold nearly as many large events as Jimmy is suggesting. Still hard to believe any elected official is even entertaining this. 

9 minutes ago, Ethan said:

You missed the whole point of the comment you're replying to, there's a world of difference between projected price and actual price. Nashville will likely learn that, and so will Cleveland/Brook Park if a new stadium is built. So long as the Haslams have the overruns though it doesn't bother me much. 

?? I didn’t miss any point at all. I was commenting specifically about 2.2 Billion for an open air stadium that isn’t all that. I understand your post was addressing cost increases. If stadiums are going to be this expensive I would hope they are marvels of buildings and this Buffalo stadium is not.

Edited March 7Mar 7 by 646empire

26 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

The overruns would affect a dome too.

 

Any overruns would most likely come from excavations. This article says the Bills stadium excavation is anywhere from 30 to 50 feet...

https://www.audacy.com/wben/news/local/major-excavation-of-bills-stadium-site-well-underway-in-orchard-park

 

The proposed Brook Park stadium is estimated to be an 80-foot-deep excavation.

33 minutes ago, 646empire said:

?? I didn’t miss any point at all. I was commenting specifically about 2.2 Billion for an open air stadium that isn’t all that. I understand your post was addressing cost increases. If stadiums are going to be this expensive I would hope they are marvels of buildings and this Buffalo stadium is not.

 

Yeah, you did miss it.  You are comparing Buffalo's actual price to Nashville's projected price.  Apples to oranges.

I thought the Pegulas paid for the overruns in Buffalo. 

12 minutes ago, X said:

 

Yeah, you did miss it.  You are comparing Buffalo's actual price to Nashville's projected price.  Apples to oranges.

Folks my point was the Buffalo project is now 2.2 billion for a stadium that isn’t that interesting. My Nashville comparison was simply to note that its stadium is currently budgeted at 2.2 also but in my opinion is much better. Of course we don’t have a final Nashville price tag, Buffalo construction is further along. Sheesh lol.

 

Would it make you feel better if I use Vegas…. Vegas was about 1.9 Billion adjusted for inflation it would be about the cost of Buffalos 2.2 billion (today). I would take Allegiant over what they are building in Buffalo. Gosh. It wasn’t to make a super complicated deep point, breath.

 

 

Edited March 7Mar 7 by 646empire

I don't think it's totally fair to compare prices of these stadiums. The cost of everything, especially construction, has gone through the roof over the last 5 years. The Vegas stadium was finish right as Covid was happening. Cost now is in a different stratosphere. There have been massive changes even in the shorter timeframe of the Buffalo estimated cost to hard costs now. 

15 minutes ago, enginerd12 said:

I don't think it's totally fair to compare prices of these stadiums. The cost of everything, especially construction, has gone through the roof over the last 5 years. The Vegas stadium was finish right as Covid was happening. Cost now is in a different stratosphere. There have been massive changes even in the shorter timeframe of the Buffalo estimated cost to hard costs now. 

That’s what adjusted for inflation means. But ok. I hinted at this months ago, inflation has been up up up yes we all know that but for a 1.4 Billion dollar project to jump 800 Million dollars that percentage cost increase is NOT normal. If that happened in Cleveland or Nash for example the end game would be a whopping 3.5 Billion+ I can guarantee that isn’t going to happen. There is more to the Buffalo stadium cost story.

https://fox8.com/news/i-team/i-team-inside-the-browns-plan-for-building-a-dome-next-to-the-airport/

For now, the Browns call building next to Hopkins a bonus, not a roadblock. “This becomes, really, the first thing fans and people are going to see as they’re flying into the city,” the head of the design team said. “There’s the home of the Cleveland Browns.”

 

Does this person have an altered mental status?

34 minutes ago, TBideon said:

For now, the Browns call building next to Hopkins a bonus, not a roadblock. “This becomes, really, the first thing fans and people are going to see as they’re flying into the city,” the head of the design team said. “There’s the home of the Cleveland Browns.”

 

Does this person have an altered mental status?

With the current state of the Browns That quote sounds like more of a threat than a benefit. 

11 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

With the current state of the Browns That quote sounds like more of a threat than a benefit. 

“This becomes, really, the first thing fans and people are going to see as they’re flying into the city,” the head of the design team said. “There’s the home of the Cleveland Browns.”

 

They didn't finish the quote: " and will be surrounded by the actual movie set for the entire Road Warrior/Mad Max movie series"

17 hours ago, 646empire said:

That’s what adjusted for inflation means. But ok. I hinted at this months ago, inflation has been up up up yes we all know that but for a 1.4 Billion dollar project to jump 800 Million dollars that percentage cost increase is NOT normal. If that happened in Cleveland or Nash for example the end game would be a whopping 3.5 Billion+ I can guarantee that isn’t going to happen. There is more to the Buffalo stadium cost story.

Cardinals stadium was $455 million not too long ago. Boy those were the days.

 

And if Jimmy is guarantor and takes care of the inevitable 10 figure overruns, then do they really matter? As long as the crook pays for this fantasy, then who cares what the overruns wind up.

 

Or would debt limit complications exist I.e. https://athlonsports.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/seek-permission-debt-bills-new-stadium-plan-hits-2-2-million-glitch-buffal

 

14 hours ago, TBideon said:

For now, the Browns call building next to Hopkins a bonus, not a roadblock. “This becomes, really, the first thing fans and people are going to see as they’re flying into the city,” the head of the design team said. “There’s the home of the Cleveland Browns.”

 

Does this person have an altered mental status?

You....you can already see "the home of the Cleveland Browns" as you fly in to Hopkins when coming east or North. And I'm not looking out the window of my plane to see a city's football stadium when landing. 

I don't who's more pathetic. The cronies on Haslams payroll, or the people who believe this crap

I'll be a contrarian here and say this statement is pretty innocuous.  If I was I flying into LAX, I would be super excited to see SoFi Stadium from the airplane window, just as I equally would flying into Cleveland regardless of where a new or refurbished Browns stadium is located.   

 

I realize you guys are just blowing off steam, ....so carry on!  🤐      

Browns offer ‘up-front cash’ to protect taxpayers if state issues $600M bonds for Brook Park stadium

“(Haslam Sports Group) is also willing to further de-risk the State and protect taxpayers against underperformance in our revenue projections through an up-front cash payment to the State equal to the present value of a portion of the principal balance of the State bonds,” according to Tywang’s written testimony. “While there is substantial cushion in our revenue projections to more than cover the State debt service obligations, this unique up-front payment structure would further hedge State risk and would be the most conservative state funding construct of any major sports-related development in the country.”

https://www.cleveland.com/open/2025/03/browns-offer-up-front-cash-to-protect-taxpayers-if-state-issues-600m-bonds-for-brook-park-stadium.html

 

 

 

Soooooooooooooooo if they're able to offer 'up-front cash' they can finance the entire thing on their own no problem? These people are dumb, but our legislature is probably ready to sign on.

Details are crucial, but it is the first potential compromise that the criminal and her husband have suggested.

 

Also, someone better mention to the criminals that the laughable $2.4 billion estimate is several billion short with tariff and recession cost increases and ancillary consequences. That number, which was never real in the first place, is long dead.

 

Edited March 11Mar 11 by TBideon

HSG going to statehouse to gain support.https://www.cleveland19.com/2025/03/11/haslam-sports-group-heads-statehouse-gain-support-domed-stadium/ 

5 minutes ago, simplythis said:

HSG going to statehouse to gain support.https://www.cleveland19.com/2025/03/11/haslam-sports-group-heads-statehouse-gain-support-domed-stadium/ 

This is a lot of effort, he clearly REALLY hates the current stadium situation and the city proposal. 

 

Also to me "support" is simply "How much money will it take for you to back me?" so he'll probably get support. 

16 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

This is a lot of effort, he clearly REALLY hates the current stadium situation and the city proposal. 

 

Also to me "support" is simply "How much money will it take for you to back me?" so he'll probably get support. 

Could explain why there was a run on the unmarked envelope shelf at Office Max. Just kidding of course 

Edited March 11Mar 11 by Willo

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/browns-reveal-more-details-about-brook-park-plans-in-a-pitch-to-state-lawmakers

I didn't realize there was a state law capping state contributions at 15% of total construction costs. In this case that would be 'only' $360,000,000 of taxpayer money, instead of the $600,000,000 the team has requested. That seems to complicate the situation. That increased friction will draw a lot more attention to the politicians that may be inclined to help the Haslams out. Never say never, but it's looking less and less likely to me that the Haslams well get the money they want from anyone. The County is leaning no, the state is leaning low, and even Brook Park is waffling and hasn't agreed yet. 

 

Also I still don't like the site plan. Leaning away from the airport and a potential redline stop eliminates the only advantages this location could have had. It still has all the disadvantages of its location, but it is falling to capitalize on any of its advantages. I was cautiously optimistic about mixed use district here, but I was envisioning a direct pedestrian overpass to the airport, possibly with a hotel immediately off the overpass, and all of this mixed use development facing a new infill redline station. Needless to say, none of that appears to be happening, missed opportunity, the plan in the article looks like a boondoggle to me. 

14 hours ago, simplythis said:

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/browns-reveal-more-details-about-brook-park-plans-in-a-pitch-to-state-lawmakers

"Phase 2 Completion 2034+" lol that phase is not happening. 

42 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

"Phase 2 Completion 2034+" lol that phase is not happening. 

Who needs a Phase 2 when you can have a sea of parking spaces!  

Silly question...but given that recent (hilarious) article about the pushback on a gas station for traffic and congestion, has there been any word on resident opposition on the Brook Park proposal? And if so, would it mean anything or just get tossed aside?

The funny thing to me is I would imagine demand and the market rate for lakefront development, whether it be luxury apartments, a high end hotel, class A office space would generate much greater revenue than any of the mixed used stuff at Brook Park. That's the whole premise of this isn't it? Lining the Haslam pockets Generating more revenue for the team. You could really charge a pretty penny for medium to high rise development in those spots.  I still feel strongly this will go ahead with perhaps a redesigned downsizing of the stadium plan and nothing but parking. 

Glad there are some in the statehouse questioning the Haslam's "just trust me bro approach". I just don't see how this project generates the revenue they claim it will and the $38M upfront doesn't seem like nearly enough. I'm dubious of their claims that this stadium will be hosting any of the events they claim it will. There is still a world class arena downtown, two stadiums capable of hosting large events, and multiple domes/stadiums within 2.5 hours of BP. And if they're relying on the entertainment district as big revenue generator, then any delay in getting that off the ground greatly impacts their projections. Overall, it seems like there are too many hurdles to clear and the math doesn't add up. I'm thinking we'll be hearing relocation threats by year's end.

2 hours ago, MostlyThere14 said:

Glad there are some in the statehouse questioning the Haslam's "just trust me bro approach". I just don't see how this project generates the revenue they claim it will and the $38M upfront doesn't seem like nearly enough. I'm dubious of their claims that this stadium will be hosting any of the events they claim it will. There is still a world class arena downtown, two stadiums capable of hosting large events, and multiple domes/stadiums within 2.5 hours of BP. And if they're relying on the entertainment district as big revenue generator, then any delay in getting that off the ground greatly impacts their projections. Overall, it seems like there are too many hurdles to clear and the math doesn't add up. I'm thinking we'll be hearing relocation threats by year's end.

Not to mention that construction costs are going to skyrocket between now and the start of any construction -- the Haslams must be really excited about their support for Trump now that he's pushing the on-again/off-again steel tariffs.  Nothing like massive uncertainty when you're trying to make a big investment, eh?

3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Who needs a Phase 2 when you can have a sea of parking spaces!  

Exactly. Plus if you see the slide show they were taking to C-bus for their latest Statehouse PR blitz this week they blur the cars in the parking lot image to the point they are nearly unrecognizable and instead emphasize what looks like a beautiful mature forest of trees. Then when compared with other drawings released the overhead drawings show narrow tree islands between wide swaths of parking spaces. 

My fear with all of this is nobody appears to have a plan B if the financing doesn't happen for Brook Park.  I don't feel Haslam will just say oh well

Plan B is Jimmy pays for the stadium himself, works with Cuyhoga County (maybe include other counties) on a satisfying profit-sharing arrangement, negotiates an extended lease on the Browns stadium, or looks in other regions. I guess that's plans B, C, D and E.

14 minutes ago, dave2017 said:

My fear with all of this is nobody appears to have a plan B if the financing doesn't happen for Brook Park.  I don't feel Haslam will just say oh well

At least per this article, the "Plan B" that was half-heartedly conveyed was:

 

"So what is Plan B if Brook Park doesn't work out?" (state Representative) Ghanbari asked.

 

"Got to dust off my resume, I guess," Tywang responded. "We would never leave Northeast Ohio... We would probably stay downtown."

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/how-ohio-lawmakers-are-reacting-to-the-browns-request-for-600-million#google_vignette

 

I feel like most of us would be okay with that Plan B.

What if the Bengals were to turn around and say they want to build a 70,000 seat indoor stadium surrounded by mixed use development and 15,000 parking spots in the suburbs? Whether intention would be sincere or not, that isn't out of the question and the headache for the state then doubles rather that two modest renovations of two relatively modern stadiums.

Edited March 12Mar 12 by CLE2BAL

55 minutes ago, CLE2BAL said:

What if the Bengals were to turn around and say they want to build a 70,000 seat indoor stadium surrounded by mixed use development and 15,000 parking spots in the suburbs? Whether intention would be sincere or not, that isn't out of the question and the headache for the state then doubles rather that two modest renovations of two relatively modern stadiums.

Whatever the Bengals do, including staying on the Riverfront,  they will immediately have their hand out asking for the same amount of cash that Jimmy is getting.   This is clearly a concern of Dewine's...he knows its coming.  

The 7-10yr band-aid lakefront stadium renovation + Burke land just seems like such an obvious win for everyone, especially with the planned landbridge, adding a waterfront line extension, and the Shoreway becoming ground level right there. The Burke land could easily fit everything they have planned for Brook Park and more, with the added benefit of drawing in a lakefront park along the water.

 

I just dont get why they wouldnt want to be a part of completely reshaping and revitalizing the lakefront for the next couple decades, and would rather shove their stadium into an industrial park sandwiched between the airport and rail lines (that they dont plan to tie in to), and interstates (that they cant build extra exits off of). It cant just be to control the gameday experience of all 70k people *forcing* them to only use parking/ patronize businesses on their land, can it? It just sounds insane to me.

This is the golden age of billionaire grift and Jimmy Haslam is 71 right now. Who knows what things will look like in 10 years.
 

That said, it seems like a lot of obstacles are getting cleared away to close that airport with Trump. With the support of Jimmy and the statewide Rs, it seems like

a pretty solid bet the FAA would find a way to make it easy and maybe they could get started sooner than anyone thought. 

I seriously doubt Trump, MAGA and conservative brain rot give a flying fig about funding a stadium in Ohio, especialy in a blue region.

 

Look at Moreno and Vance's utter absence and silence in the dismantling of the CHIPS act, and with it the Intel expansion, and with it a big chunk of Ohio's future. They don't care about Ohio outside of restricting trans and reproductive rights and warring with immigrants, which they've pretty much succeeded. Mission accomplished.

 

And if they can't be bothered despite their Ohio ties, then you better believe Trump doesn't give a s**t. Which is a good thing.

 

Edited March 12Mar 12 by TBideon