Debate. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/ohio-may-spend-600m-to-fund-browns-stadium-but-calls-public-education-spending-unsustainable

43 minutes ago, TBideon said:

I seriously doubt Trump, MAGA and conservative brain rot give a flying fig about funding a stadium in Ohio, especialy in a blue region.

 

Look at Moreno and Vance's utter absence and silence in the dismantling of the CHIPS act, and with it the Intel expansion, and with it a big chunk of Ohio's future. They don't care about Ohio outside of restricting trans and reproductive rights and warring with immigrants, which they've pretty much succeeded. Mission accomplished.

 

And if they can't be bothered despite their Ohio ties, then you better believe Trump doesn't give a s**t. Which is a good thing.

 

 

I'm not sure if you're responding to me but what I'm talking about is getting the FAA to stand down when it comes to closing the airport so it can be developed faster. I'm not saying they will provide money for it.

Melanie Miller likes the idea. https://fox8.com/news/i-team/i-team-new-move-to-help-browns-get-state-money-for-dome/

6 hours ago, CLE2BAL said:

What if the Bengals were to turn around and say they want to build a 70,000 seat indoor stadium surrounded by mixed use development and 15,000 parking spots in the suburbs? Whether intention would be sincere or not, that isn't out of the question and the headache for the state then doubles rather that two modest renovations of two relatively modern stadiums.

lol can't wait to hear the Brown family lackies clamoring about a "region changing development at hand"

5 hours ago, Cleburger said:

Whatever the Bengals do, including staying on the Riverfront,  they will immediately have their hand out asking for the same amount of cash that Jimmy is getting.   This is clearly a concern of Dewine's...he knows its coming.  

Considering Cinci is beating Cleveland in every metric possible, he's going to look hella awkward trying to say "no" to a development on the scale that Jimmy wants. 

4 hours ago, daybreaker said:

The 7-10yr band-aid lakefront stadium renovation + Burke land just seems like such an obvious win for everyone, especially with the planned landbridge, adding a waterfront line extension, and the Shoreway becoming ground level right there. The Burke land could easily fit everything they have planned for Brook Park and more, with the added benefit of drawing in a lakefront park along the water.

 

I just dont get why they wouldnt want to be a part of completely reshaping and revitalizing the lakefront for the next couple decades, and would rather shove their stadium into an industrial park sandwiched between the airport and rail lines (that they dont plan to tie in to), and interstates (that they cant build extra exits off of). It cant just be to control the gameday experience of all 70k people *forcing* them to only use parking/ patronize businesses on their land, can it? It just sounds insane to me.

"It cant just be to control the gameday experience of all 70k people *forcing* them to only use parking/ patronize businesses on their land, can it? It just sounds insane to me"

 

That's literally what this whole pet project is about. So Jimmy can get his hands on all that parking revenue for gameday and events outside and already inside the region (Rocket Mortgage Arena)

I dont even think it makes sense though. Their presentation had the upper range of spots at 14,000 parking spaces. Let's say they somehow get 30 events per year that fill all the spots, and they charge a ridiculous $75/spot. That's still only $31.5mil/yr

 

They're selling out a legacy-defining opportunity for parking spaces that will take over a decade to pay off?

Maybe HSG is considering a deal to allow a portion of the lots to be airport related parking on non-event days ?

On 3/11/2025 at 3:42 PM, MyPhoneDead said:

Also to me "support" is simply "How much money will it take for you to back me?" so he'll probably get support. 

I was right lol

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2025/03/ohio-lawmakers-to-drop-dewines-sin-tax-hikes-from-budget-plan-add-600m-in-browns-stadium-bonds.html

18 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I was right lol

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2025/03/ohio-lawmakers-to-drop-dewines-sin-tax-hikes-from-budget-plan-add-600m-in-browns-stadium-bonds.html

 

ha came here to post the same thing - the checks must've cashed.

4 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

ha came here to post the same thing - the checks must've cashed.

Definitely. The worse thing about American politics is once someone become a major donor to a politician, you owe them whenever they need you.

The Browns envelope district.

What a remarkably s**tty year already.

The argument is that the state will pay off the bonds using tax revenue generated by the new development.  And it's bogus.  What every academic report on this topic has pointed out, and what everyone seems to ignore is that there is little to zero new tax revenue being created.  All of the tax revenue from admissions, parking hotels and restaurants, is tax revenue that the State and County already get.  Moving locations from Cleveland to Brook Park does not add any tax revenue.

 

The only new revenue is from temporary construction jobs, and maybe a minor bump if more events take place.  But this additional tax based in going to be miniscule.  

Even if the state passes this legislation to give the Browns $600M, what leverage do they have on the county to chip in the $600M more they want? Do the state Rs make threats at Ronanye and Bibb like Trump with states that defy him? 

 

It would be a complete financial malfeasance for the local government to fund this at this time with the economic outlook so poor. Very few times do policymakers have the ability like we do right now to see bad economic tides coming our way. 

 

 

37 minutes ago, coneflower said:

Even if the state passes this legislation to give the Browns $600M, what leverage do they have on the county to chip in the $600M more they want? Do the state Rs make threats at Ronanye and Bibb like Trump with states that defy him? 

 

"You're the reason the browns left Cleveland (again)..." will absolutely be used against them (by people who don't live in the city/county).

Edited March 13Mar 13 by GISguy

4 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

"You're the reason the browns left Cleveland (again)..." will absolutely be used against them (by people who don't live in the city/county.

They (Browns) already played their hand stating that they aren't leaving NEO. Could they pull and Oakland A's? Absolutely but I don't think they'll leverage that.

 

But Chris Ronayne would do political suicide by greenlighting $600 Million while the county is facing a budget shortfall, and cuts in funding due to Federal funding uhhhhhh "issues". 

I'm confident Lerner included a clause in sale of the Browns to Haslem that he could not move the team from the region.  Also, the NFL would not allow that to happen to Cleveland again given the how the community supports such a perennial losing team.  This team is making lots of money, but Haslem want's more cash.  It's pure greed!

Edited March 13Mar 13 by newyorker

2 minutes ago, newyorker said:

I'm confident Lerner included a clause in sale of the Browns to Haslem that he could not move the team from the region.  Also, the NFL would not allow that to happen to Cleveland again given the how the community supports such a perennial losing team.  This team is making lots of money, but Haslem want's more cash.  It's pure greed!

Bibb and Ronayne have a good reason to bring Haslam back to the table thanks to the Statehouse $600 million giveaway. The City and County can now pitch the total value of  all Public contributions State/City/County plus the value of Public contributions already announced for the LandBridge, Lakefront plans surrounding the stadium and last but not least the planned Shoreway redo. Add up the Grand Total of everything and go on a nonstop media blitz as HSG has done. Let them say no to that very significant Public contribution packaged offer and watch their supporters run away. The NFL should then be put on the spot to weigh in. 

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-domed-stadium-brook-park-ohio-house-budget-600-million-bonds-report/95-8d44cd07-df1c-4d5f-8e67-d17ca2e3e0ea

10 minutes ago, simplythis said:

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-domed-stadium-brook-park-ohio-house-budget-600-million-bonds-report/95-8d44cd07-df1c-4d5f-8e67-d17ca2e3e0ea

Literally and utterly disgusting. F*ck the poor who need medicaid, we have no problem cutting that. But god forbid billionaire cry-poor Jimmy doesn't get his little playground to reap all the revenue. I would say the legislature will have a rude awakening, but who the hell am I kidding. The voters speak at the polls, and they voted for these spineless Reps. 

 

State lawmakers want Browns in Brook Park

By Ken Prendergast / March 14, 2025

 

Barring a surprise, the last of the big hurdles appears ready to be surpassed for the Cleveland Browns football team’s move from downtown to Brook Park. Yes, there’s a million other things that can happen or not happen in the next year before financing might close and construction contractors are given the green light. But most of those hinge on events occurring now at committee hearings in our state’s capital.

 

MORE: 

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/14/brook-park-stadiums-fate-rests-with-state-soon/

 

@KJP Thanks always for great informative articles.  This entire process has bypassed any public input and the trust that our public elected officials are looking out for the public's best interest looks to erode even further with this push to approve the mov etc Brook Park.

 

I fail to see how this proposal is in Cleveland's best interest to be 12 miles away from our downtown. HSG's plan is nothing more than a money grab for themselves.  

 

If HSG truly cared about Cleveland why would they not understand what The Modell Law was intended to prevent. I for one will never forget how it felt to have lost our team because of a greedy owner whom didn't understand or care about the fans whom invested time and money within an organization. The narcissistic nature of these owners is disgusting.   

 

I want someone to force HSG to show the public the lakefront renovated stadium plans and estimates  so we can decide what is best for our region rather than inflated ideas and numbers being presented as facts.

@KJP is the county tax that must be voted on required by the Haslams? That doesn’t seem like a slam dunk. Also if this development doesn’t bring in the revenue estimated, who pays for Brook Park’s missing share? The county has to pony up for that, too? So, BP still needs the county to sell bonds on its behalf to make it work?

@coneflower Not necessarily. The sin tax is about $4 million per year. I think the may also be pushing a local or countrywide share of the bed tax. I'm not sure so I didn't mention it. But those are not large numbers so there may be a way around them.

44 minutes ago, KJP said:

@coneflower Not necessarily. The sin tax is about $4 million per year. I think the may also be pushing a local or countrywide share of the bed tax. I'm not sure so I didn't mention it. But those are not large numbers so there may be a way around them.

Downstate politicians many anti-Cleveland are controlling our local major public policy decisions and in effect supplanting our local government officials. Talk about taxation without representation. Where is the outrage and pushback from our elected leaders and community organizers other than Bibb and Ronayne? Downtown is going to start losing events of all sizes and $$$ as greedy Jimmy and Dee will scratch and claw to capture and hold events 365 days a year of any/all sizes (that would otherwise go to downtown) in order to meet the unvalidated rosy revenue projections. Time to go nuclear Bibb and Ronayne and also lobby the Statehouse to ensure the final language says the $600,000,000 is applicable to any location. One more thing- please don’t fall for the bait and switch that HSG will donate $ to the lakefront. That is the equivalent of the NFL and Mayor White saying at least you get to keep the Brown’s name colors and records during the last NFL billionaire owners swindle on the City of Cleveland which is still fresh in our minds.

Edited March 14Mar 14 by Willo

I can’t believe there will be no public input on this. How is that even possible? We had a decade of meetings to discuss the inner belt and that was basically a road project. 
 

@KJP maybe I missed it, but who will own the stadium? 

I still don't see what incentive the county has to play ball. I guarantee they view the donation to the lakefront transformation as an empty promise. The Haslam's have lied to the city and county throughout this process.

 

Also, what in the world does the eastern most dome in the country matter at all? What a stupid point. 

1 hour ago, bumsquare said:

 

@KJP maybe I missed it, but who will own the stadium? 

 

I believe the Haslams will own it. But I haven't heard them "brag" about it.

1 hour ago, MostlyThere14 said:

I still don't see what incentive the county has to play ball. I guarantee they view the donation to the lakefront transformation as an empty promise. The Haslam's have lied to the city and county throughout this process.

 

Also, what in the world does the eastern most dome in the country matter at all? What a stupid point. 

 

They don't have buildings with roofs where you can watch music or sporting events back East. It's quite sadly, really 🥴

 

Based on this CLE.com article, the county has a bit more leverage because Brook Park apparently needs them to offer the bonds to cover the cost, which they will pay back with hypothetical revenues. Which means if the numbers don't work out, the county is on the hook. This is like if your cousin comes up with some hair-brained business idea and asks you to sign for a $500K loan from the bank and give the money to him.

 

Quote

$600 million – Money borrowed by the county, which has more bonding ability than Brook Park. About $178 million would be paid back by the county through things not yet agreed to, such as a one percentage point increase in the countywide bed tax. (County Executive Chris Ronayne has said repeatedly he is opposed to the Browns moving to Brook Park.). The rest - $422 million - would be repaid by Brook Park taxes.

 

Edited March 14Mar 14 by coneflower

One glaring point in the sales pitch is that the NFL has never stated if the roofed stadium is built a Super Bowl will be held in Brook Park.  Don't fall for it Cleveland.

 

Where are the actual costs for tickets and parking we will have to pay at this facility?  Many will be sticker shocked 

 

Also, if everyone is against watching football in the elements than why are all the surrounding developments an outside mall?

Edited March 14Mar 14 by dave2017
spelling

“The Brook Park site is only 12 miles from Downtown Cleveland and just outside the Cleveland city limits, close enough for the dome stadium to have a substantial positive impact on downtown, particularly given the year-round activity and major events it will bring to the region,” Tywang said. “The new Huntington Bank Field enclosed stadium project will be complementary to downtown — not competitive.”

 

F*ck these people. Seriously f*ck these people.  

3 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

“The Brook Park site is only 12 miles from Downtown Cleveland and just outside the Cleveland city limits, close enough for the dome stadium to have a substantial positive impact on downtown, particularly given the year-round activity and major events it will bring to the region,” Tywang said. “The new Huntington Bank Field enclosed stadium project will be complementary to downtown — not competitive.”

 

F*ck these people. Seriously f*ck these people.  

That arrogance is bad enough then Tywang drops this term-

Optical Local Collaboration

Did Tywang just slip and let the Tennessee cat out of the bag with a new scheme for sticking the public with more of the bill via the magical Optical Local Collaboration?

 

Here is Tywang:  He also proposed that, with “optimal local collaboration,” the local fiscal impacts from the Brook Park stadium and development zone could not only pay for the local investment in the stadium, but also generate considerable excess public revenues that could be used for future capital repairs in the building and other important public purposes, including the downtown lakefront project. But will we get “optimal local collaboration” in a region where it has yet to happen”

 

Haslams say Cleveland officials misguided residents
By Ken Prendergast / March 18, 2025

 

Haslam Sports Group (HSG), owner of the Cleveland Browns, submitted an amended complaint in an existing federal lawsuit against the city of Cleveland which is seeking to keep the Browns from moving to suburban Brook Park. In announcing its filing today, HSG said the city is “misguiding” its residents.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/18/haslams-say-cleveland-officials-misguided-residents/

 

https://fox8.com/news/browns-say-city-misguiding-clevelanders-court/

 

https://www.cleveland19.com/2025/03/18/hold-browns-hostage-browns-new-filing-says-citys-fight-harms-clevelanders-taxpayers/

god I hate the haslams

 

Really hope the county holds its ground - good time to have a $25M deficit I guess.

 

Also, since 85% percent of Browns attendees reside outside of the city, perhaps that regional stadium authority should become a thing? 

Edited March 18Mar 18 by GISguy

arguing that a stadium in the city is a tax payer black-hole while saying a new stadium will produce unprecedented economic growth is a tough needle to thread. 

Lol I hate the Haslams soooo much. Such slimeballs

So state politicians seem on the verge of helping out a billionaire from Tenn. Who knew a billionaire had so many friends. I wonder what's driving that friendship? Maybe it's Jimmy's stellar reputation.

Haslams drop a new video...

 

 

Also I still think the dome looks ugly 

75% of Browns subreddit is convinced that HSG is paying for all of the stadium. The PR machine is working.

Don’t ask me for a dime. Not a single dime.

1 hour ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Don’t ask me for a dime. Not a single dime.

I actually WANT them to ask me for money, in the form of a voter referendum, so that it can be soundly defeated.

Wants our money and calls us stupid!

4 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Haslams say Cleveland officials misguided residents
By Ken Prendergast / March 18, 2025

 

Haslam Sports Group (HSG), owner of the Cleveland Browns, submitted an amended complaint in an existing federal lawsuit against the city of Cleveland which is seeking to keep the Browns from moving to suburban Brook Park. In announcing its filing today, HSG said the city is “misguiding” its residents.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/18/haslams-say-cleveland-officials-misguided-residents/

 

Oh that's f*cking rich. Asking for 1.2 billion dollars atleast in public funds on the pre-tense of "economic growth" that has no concrete objective data to back it up. God they are an insufferable family

https://www.news5cleveland.com/sports/browns/cleveland-browns-ramp-up-their-case-against-the-modell-law-and-for-a-new-brook-park-stadium-in-federal-court

10 hours ago, WindyBuckeye said:

Also I still think the dome looks ugly 

I finally figured out what it reminds me of. Elon Musk's Cyber Truck! No wonder why I hate it so much. Also note how HSG no longer touts a Super Bowl as an event to happen if the stadium is in Brook Park.

 

Hw does HSG believe that stating The Modell Law is unconstitutional help their cause when it effectively helped them win the ownership to the Columbus Crew? At the end of the day the law was to help Cleveland in efforts against owners whom insist on manipulating the public from losing their team outside the  city limits.  HSG will always look like they are trying every angle to work around what is in the best interest for the fans 

 

Again this project benefits nobody but the Haslams.  Every business owner downtown should be interviewed on what they have invested believing downtown is a shared environment that all can profit rather than plucking the team from that core 

 

Edited March 19Mar 19 by dave2017

 

 

What a great view for all those residents and office tenants facing out to the warehouses and weeds of Snow and Engle Rd. Or they could just block the view with trees and they can see nothing hopefully!

1 hour ago, CLE2BAL said:

 

 

What a great view for all those residents and office tenants facing out to the warehouses and weeds of Snow and Engle Rd. Or they could just block the view with trees and they can see nothing hopefully!

I still wish they would have opted for a layout closer to the one proposed by the great and powerful @NorthShore647

 

 

Leaning in to this being next to the airport just make sense, make this a transit hub, build a bridge to the airport and an infill redline stop and there's a real chance that this could not be a ghost town during non game days. The mixed use area could have gotten traffic from long layover travelers, or just people arriving early to the airport, and adding a red line I fill stop would have given this place Van Aken like potential. 

 

While it seems silly to focus on what the plan is not, even if the stadium location is set, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility for public officials to use their influence to move the mixed use district to face the airport, particularly if the local municipalities are willing to invest in the necessary infrastructure, such as a pedestrian bridge and infill station. If we have to this stadium location, I'd rather have it done intelligently in a way that plays into its assets and attempts to integrate into the broader regional transit system. 

 

If, as many have proposed, this is really all about parking, then if course this is exactly what HSG doesn't want. I understand that, but it's a shame, and I'd like to see them change course.