Looking forward to the new stadium village 

4 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

Looking forward to the new stadium village 

EXACTLY.  It's like looking into the future at Brook Park

It is really interesting in the previous renderings and videos that they showed the Cleveland skyline off to the east in the distance.  This time around they do not even show the city skyline.  That could be like what Ethan mentioned above that this side that is visible from the airport is nothing but a sea of surface parking and does not look too pretty.  Either way, this latest PR stunt shows they are not at all interested in the City of Cleveland.

1 hour ago, Ethan said:

I still wish they would have opted for a layout closer to the one proposed by the great and powerful @NorthShore647

 

 

Leaning in to this being next to the airport just make sense, make this a transit hub, build a bridge to the airport and an infill redline stop and there's a real chance that this could not be a ghost town during non game days. The mixed use area could have gotten traffic from long layover travelers, or just people arriving early to the airport, and adding a red line I fill stop would have given this place Van Aken like potential. 

 

While it seems silly to focus on what the plan is not, even if the stadium location is set, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility for public officials to use their influence to move the mixed use district to face the airport, particularly if the local municipalities are willing to invest in the necessary infrastructure, such as a pedestrian bridge and infill station. If we have to this stadium location, I'd rather have it done intelligently in a way that plays into its assets and attempts to integrate into the broader regional transit system. 

 

If, as many have proposed, this is really all about parking, then if course this is exactly what HSG doesn't want. I understand that, but it's a shame, and I'd like to see them change course. 

 

I think they see the airport and it's surrounding hotels, parking etc as more of a hindrance than a help. They'll sell it as a positive but deep down the current design suggests otherwise to me. 

I agree that this would be slightly more palatable had they designed and pitched it as a transit hub. I know it would cost a ton to do, but it wouldve been cool to have an underground tunnel connecting to the airport's rapid stop, leading to the stadium area with access to the tunnel from hotel lobbies, apartment building lobbies, and into the stadium itself, all without ever going outside, including an underground retail area maybe for a few small gift shops or fast service food stalls... Though I was basing that last bit on the Crystal City Underground area in Arlington, which I just read closed all their shops last fall... so maybe forget that last part...

11 minutes ago, daybreaker said:

I agree that this would be slightly more palatable had they designed and pitched it as a transit hub. I know it would cost a ton to do, but it wouldve been cool to have an underground tunnel connecting to the airport's rapid stop, leading to the stadium area with access to the tunnel from hotel lobbies, apartment building lobbies, and into the stadium itself, all without ever going outside, including an underground retail area maybe for a few small gift shops or fast service food stalls... Though I was basing that last bit on the Crystal City Underground area in Arlington, which I just read closed all their shops last fall... so maybe forget that last part...

I just find these things INSANE: 

• 2.4 Billion isn't enough money to include a viable transit option in this project
  • 2.4 Billion wouldn't even be CONSIDERED for rail expansion to connect neighborhoods even though it would have a bigger economic impact compared to this.
• $600 Million was given to Haslam for a money pit even though Ohio has much more pressing issues.

How are those financial numbers still accurate? With interest rates, inflation, tarrif-related escalated costs, supply and Labor shortages, etc, I find it hard to believe the numbers don't need adjusting. 

 

Also, how much would road, bridge and highway improvements cost? Tens of millions? Hundreds? Never mind the months or years of studies and debates even if some amount is allocated. No way that s**t gets fastracked even for some MAGA fairy tale.

 

Cleveland Mayor calls Brook Park stadium ‘betrayal’

By Ken Prendergast / March 19, 2025

 

Yesterday it was the owners of the Cleveland Browns, the Haslam Sports Group (HSG), accusing Cleveland city officials of “misguiding” its residents. Today it was Cleveland Mayor Justin Bibb firing a return volley in kind.

 

MORE: 

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/19/cleveland-mayor-calls-brook-park-stadium-betrayal/

 

I thought the mayor's response to the Haslams was strong. ^

 

The Haslams definitely don't have the public behind them locally or around the state. They are leaning almost entirely on their ability to influence Ohio Republicans to offer them freebies. Those elected officials are among the least responsive to voters in the country so I still think they have good odds of getting the money lol.

 

@KJP, in your story your mention the money offered by Brook Park as a tax pass-thru. Based on my reading of past coverage, they seem to want the county to sell the bonds on their behalf because they have more capacity to borrow. Is that true? And if that's true, doesn't it put the responsibility for shortfall on future tax revenues in the hands of county taxpayers? Am I misunderstanding?

Edited March 19Mar 19 by coneflower

24 minutes ago, TBideon said:

How are those financial numbers still accurate? With interest rates, inflation, tarrif-related escalated costs, supply and Labor shortages, etc, I find it hard to believe the numbers don't need adjusting. 

 

Also, how much would road, bridge and highway improvements cost? Tens of millions? Hundreds? Never mind the months or years of studies and debates even if some amount is allocated. No way that s**t gets fastracked even for some MAGA fairy tale.

Actually, inflation is dropping, interest rates are coming down, and there's cheaper rates on construction due to fewer starts this year. So if anything, they'd work in their favor.

@coneflower I haven't had time to really get into this since I'm actually on vacation on the West Coast. But leave it to the Browns and the city of Cleveland to get into a new spat, giving me new material and helping to bump up my blog's views while I'm away. 😘

41 minutes ago, columbus17 said:

Actually, inflation is dropping, interest rates are coming down, and there's cheaper rates on construction due to fewer starts this year. So if anything, they'd work in their favor.

Actually, the positive signs on many of these things have changed over the last couple of months.  By all appearances, uncertainty, tariffs, and trade wars are not ways to spur on a booming economy.

Browns add NY Law firm to help fight Modell Law.  https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/browns-add-new-york-law-firm-fight-modell-law

Bibb slams Brook Park dome. https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-brook-park-domed-stadium-plan-mayor-justin-bibb-haslam-sports-group-lakefront/95-2d510019-f221-4204-8cc4-a204c466271a

 

9 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Browns add NY Law firm to help fight Modell Law.  https://www.crainscleveland.com/politics-policy/browns-add-new-york-law-firm-fight-modell-law

I hate to say this, but not even a Cleveland law firm?

Edited March 19Mar 19 by TBideon

https://www.news5cleveland.com/

 

https://fox8.com/news/browns-say-city-misguiding-clevelanders-court/

And after all this back and forth, the Haslams still don't have commitments for all the money they will need to build!

 

I will also say that annecdotally, a lot of people are against a stadium in Brookpark. The Haslam PR campaign does not seem to be swaying people to be for the BP stadium.

At this point I don't think the Haslams are trying to sway public opinion. I think they're trying to wear everybody down so they just give up and give in.

The Haslams have committed to privately investing $2 billion-plus in a dome stadium and mixed-use development project a mile outside Cleveland city limits, with the intention of trying to cement the team’s future in Northeast Ohio.

 

They convinced Even Adam Schefter to talk about it lol.

"intention of trying to cement the team's future in NEO"

 

That's interesting wording.

 

Chris Ronayne did an excellent job!

44 minutes ago, GISguy said:

 

Wow! As a citizen of Cuyahoga county that cares deeply about sound fiscal policy, I loved every second of that! While I didn't think he ever said it quite so concisely, I heard a firm no on any county support for a Brook park stadium. 

As someone firmly against the Brookpark site, I am glad at least that if it is indeed built in that city, the county will in no way be fiscally at risk.  Obviously it is the state of Ohio that needs to get a clue.  If blows my mind that the state is apparently not doing any of the modelling usually performed in conjunction with the issuance of such large bonds.

Edited March 19Mar 19 by Htsguy

Just finished up watching that. Regardless what happens in the end Chris Ronayne has come out of this very well in my eyes. We are lucky to have him. Listening to him felt like he reads this forum ha.

He did a great job though I wish the mics were better for the reporters. I couldn't understand a word they said.

Just updated the NEOtrans article with a couple of paragraphs from Ronayne as well as a link to a two-page backgrounder from the county.

 

And I'm doing this while I should be enjoying my vacation here in sunny southern California..... 😎

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Just updated the NEOtrans article with a couple of paragraphs from Ronayne as well as a link to a two-page backgrounder from the county.

 

And I'm doing this while I should be enjoying my vacation here in sunny southern California..... 😎

Ken, we have sun and warm temps at home! (...for the next 3 hours)

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-brook-park-domed-stadium-proposal-cuyahoga-county-executive-chris-ronayne/95-7fb37a69-0c76-4fce-b05c-fac5df5345ec

19 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Ken, we have sun and warm temps at home! (...for the next 3 hours)

 

Yes, i saw. But my wife and son were able to go to the beach today. 🫠 And I'm writing this from a store at Hollywood and Highland...

 

So the Browns fired off a late-afternoon PR reply...

 

Statement from a Haslam Sports Group Spokesperson:

While we respect the Mayor and County Executive, the facts are the facts. We have detailed the work completed in collaboration with our team of experts and have taken a conservative approach in our exploration and projections for both stadium options. The work shows definitively that an enclosed stadium in Brook Park is the most viable long-term solution, and the best choice to ensure a thriving future for the Cleveland Browns, our fans, Greater Cleveland and Northeast Ohio. Despite our extensive efforts to explore and collaborate on a lakefront option, the City’s plan is the risky bet. It is not economically viable. It includes no concrete path for making funds available to start construction. And, more importantly, it will burden its taxpayers for decades to come while kicking the can down the road. In stark contrast, the Brook Park proposal will not draw from existing taxpayer revenue streams, does not require any funding from the City, and will be funded primarily by revenue generated from the project. Further, we have not finalized any ticket prices and are committed to offering ticket options at a variety of price points. We can say definitively that the average ticket price claimed by the Mayor and County Executive is more than three times what we would expect the average ticket price at the new stadium to be. We remain committed to coming together with both state and local public officials to create a positive and meaningful long-term economic benefit for Cleveland and the surrounding region while giving Browns fans one of the best game day experiences in the world.

 

Peter John-Baptiste
Chief Communications Officer

THEN PAY FOR THE STADIUM NO ONE WANTS YOUR GODDAMN SELF!!

Its really cringeworthy watching the continual begging and lies for the county cash. Absolutely shameless.

12 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Yes, i saw. But my wife and son were able to go to the beach today. 🫠 And I'm writing this from a store at Hollywood and Highland...

 

So the Browns fired off a late-afternoon PR reply...

 

Statement from a Haslam Sports Group Spokesperson:

While we respect the Mayor and County Executive, the facts are the facts. We have detailed the work completed in collaboration with our team of experts and have taken a conservative approach in our exploration and projections for both stadium options. The work shows definitively that an enclosed stadium in Brook Park is the most viable long-term solution, and the best choice to ensure a thriving future for the Cleveland Browns, our fans, Greater Cleveland and Northeast Ohio. Despite our extensive efforts to explore and collaborate on a lakefront option, the City’s plan is the risky bet. It is not economically viable. It includes no concrete path for making funds available to start construction. And, more importantly, it will burden its taxpayers for decades to come while kicking the can down the road. In stark contrast, the Brook Park proposal will not draw from existing taxpayer revenue streams, does not require any funding from the City, and will be funded primarily by revenue generated from the project. Further, we have not finalized any ticket prices and are committed to offering ticket options at a variety of price points. We can say definitively that the average ticket price claimed by the Mayor and County Executive is more than three times what we would expect the average ticket price at the new stadium to be. We remain committed to coming together with both state and local public officials to create a positive and meaningful long-term economic benefit for Cleveland and the surrounding region while giving Browns fans one of the best game day experiences in the world.

 

Peter John-Baptiste
Chief Communications Officer

I live 3 miles away from where you are. Please tell me you are exploring more of LA than Hollywood and Highland! 

Ronayne is by far the most impressive CC Commissioner that I have seen.  He rolled out the facts (using data) and urged the State to do the same. 

44 minutes ago, KJP said:

the best choice to ensure a thriving future for the Cleveland Browns, our fans, Greater Cleveland and Northeast Ohio.

 

aka, the people who think they'll be murdered if they step foot in downtown Cleveland.

Another thought.  Who the hell is advising Brookpark officials.  Don't all the financial pitfalls and risk factors outlined by Ronayne apply to the city as well.  Maybe even more so since even fewer resources to fall back on.  

I believe BP wants the county to issue the bonds on their behalf. Their mayor said that in a recent interview and I think that is where Ronayne is coming up with the idea that the county is liable for $600M in the Haslams’ dream world. If that were the case, BP would have to cover a variety of city services but the lion share of the project wouldn’t be on them. But the rest of the county shouldn’t shoulder it. 
 

Ronayne indicated that if they got the state money, the Browns have said they can do BP without the county. They clearly don’t want to, though. 

21 minutes ago, coneflower said:

Ronayne indicated that if they got the state money, the Browns have said they can do BP without the county. They clearly don’t want to, though.

I don’t necessarily think it’s for the best that the stadium be in Brook Park, but if we can get away with no local tax dollars going towards this, I would take that as a big win.

2 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

I live 3 miles away from where you are. Please tell me you are exploring more of LA than Hollywood and Highland! 

 

Hopefully with some former Cincinnati tourism, at Fountain and Fairfaxxxxxxx!!!!!!   IYKYK! 

 

10 hours ago, Enginerd said:

I don’t necessarily think it’s for the best that the stadium be in Brook Park, but if we can get away with no local tax dollars going towards this, I would take that as a big win.

 

Well, to the Cincinnati forumers who may be looking at what's going on in this thread... great news!  The State legislature will be willing to skirt it's own law aimed at keeping the Bengals inside Cincinnati limits AND pay $600M (at least) towards the move!  Isn't that great?!

 

 

Edited March 20Mar 20 by Oldmanladyluck

15 hours ago, snakebite said:

Just finished up watching that. Regardless what happens in the end Chris Ronayne has come out of this very well in my eyes. We are lucky to have him. Listening to him felt like he reads this forum ha.

Yes Ronayne was excellent and also in his follow on appearance on 1100 radio (just after KJP’s call in). We hope he ramps up more public appearances to counter endless HSG intern PR babbling.

 

We especially hope Ronayne and Bibb, with help from the Cleveland Statehouse delegation, demand equal time Statehouse Committee testimony to counter the one-sided appearance last week by the HSG dis-/mis-/mal-information un-rebutted lovefest. Who is this Ashland State rep:

 

https://fox8.com/news/i-team/i-team-new-move-to-help-browns-get-state-money-for-dome/

“…Now, Rep. Melanie Miller, a Republican from Ashland, is taking action…She told the I-Team she will submit an amendment to the state budget proposal within days, in order to provide money for the Browns. That could lead to putting the issue before all Ohio lawmakers for a vote.

 

“I am absolutely going to submit it,” Miller said.

“I wanted our committee members to hear firsthand what the Browns are trying to do,” Miller said…”

 

what? She is going to submit it without full testimony? Again why are downstate lawmakers running local policy decisions?

 

46 minutes ago, Willo said:

“…Now, Rep. Melanie Miller, a Republican from Ashland, is taking action…She told the I-Team she will submit an amendment to the state budget proposal within days, in order to provide money for the Browns. That could lead to putting the issue before all Ohio lawmakers for a vote.

 

“I am absolutely going to submit it,” Miller said.

“I wanted our committee members to hear firsthand what the Browns are trying to do,” Miller said…”

 

what? She is going to submit it without full testimony? Again why are downstate lawmakers running local policy decisions?

 

Give her office a call:  614-466-0961.  

 

Just had a conversation with an aide there who claimed to not know anything about it. 

according to wiki: she's from brook park, went to CSU.  maybe that's driving it. or maybe not

I don't know much about state government and the Ohio legislature's process so I might be speak out of my your know what, but it seems like any money from the state is getting pushed through without the usual scrutiny.  Like an economic analysis by who ever does this at the state level for the legislature (something similar to the Congressional Budget Office I guess) or committee hearings.  It seems like every time something  we are rooting for on this Board is always bogged down in committees and then does not move forward during the current legislative term and then has to be re-submitted.  Why isn't any bonding being "talked to death" especially since it will not end here.  Cincy is going to have their hand out as well.

Edited March 20Mar 20 by Htsguy

Going back to the discussions regarding the old First Energy site, I see a lot of similarities to that and what a Chicago developer planned for the Bears stadium. It is close to Downtown, right off a lakefront highway (I know lakeshore drive technically isn't a highway, at least downtown), and sits close to an existing neighborhood. Turn those high rises into 5-10 story buildings (residential, offices etc.) and BOOM Haslam can get what he wants and the Browns stay in Cleveland. Extend the WFL line as a part of the development and we have direct connection to Downtown that can take people to our re-envisioned lakefront after the games. 

 

Granted the Bears don't like the site saying it is narrow but this is a good way to envision what that site can look like. 

 

52 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Going back to the discussions regarding the old First Energy site, I see a lot of similarities to that and what a Chicago developer planned for the Bears stadium. It is close to Downtown, right off a lakefront highway (I know lakeshore drive technically isn't a highway, at least downtown), and sits close to an existing neighborhood. Turn those high rises into 5-10 story buildings (residential, offices etc.) and BOOM Haslam can get what he wants and the Browns stay in Cleveland. Extend the WFL line as a part of the development and we have direct connection to Downtown that can take people to our re-envisioned lakefront after the games. 

 

Granted the Bears don't like the site saying it is narrow but this is a good way to envision what that site can look like. 

 

It seems like a very reasonable solution.  Give Haslam all the parking on game days and keep the stadium where it is.   The city and regional residents get an upgraded neighborhood on the lakefront.  

Who knows, maybe the Haslam's original plan looked very much like this.   Doubtful we'll ever know... 

Jimmy's mindset is I might be dead in 10 years, I'm not waiting for that. Thats what it boils down to. 

2 hours ago, Htsguy said:

I don't know much about state government and the Ohio legislature's process so I might be speak out of my your know what, but it seems like any money from the state is getting pushed through without the usual scrutiny.  Like an economic analysis by who ever does this at the state level for the legislature (something similar to the Congressional Budget Office I guess) or committee hearings.  It seems like every time something  we are rooting for on this Board is always bogged down in committees and then does not move forward during the current legislative term and then has to be re-submitted.  Why isn't any bonding being "talked to death" especially since it will not end here.  Cincy is going to have their hand out as well.

Ronayne covered that pretty extensively in his press conference. He urged the state to pass it through the budget offices

3 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

Ronayne covered that pretty extensively in his press conference. He urged the state to pass it through the budget offices

I guess the question is why isn't that happening?

Very powerful and compelling presser by Ronayne. This has me really pissed off. If what Ronayne is saying is remotely correct, the Haslams' proposal is about 50% larceny 50% fraud. I'm sorry, but they're predicting $800 tickets and 100% uptake on $100 a game parking??  Tons of new taxes?  All this for 30 years.

 

GTFO. Go to Baltimore again for all I care.