Posted April 20, 200619 yr Not specifically Ohio, but sad to see nonetheless. Report: Americans fleeing nation's big cities People moving further from metropolitan areas in search of cheaper homes The Associated Press Updated: 12:10 a.m. ET April 20, 2006 WASHINGTON - Americans are leaving the nation’s big cities in search of cheaper homes and open spaces farther out. Nearly every large metropolitan area had more people move out than move in from 2000 to 2004, with a few exceptions in the South and Southwest, according to a report being released Thursday by the Census Bureau. More at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12395115/
April 20, 200619 yr Good. Lower cost for inner city housing for when I'm ready to buy a house after I'm out of college :) (I know that's not the right way to look at it but hey, I'm cheap lol)
April 20, 200619 yr I read an article not too long ago that younger people were "fleeing" to the cities...Maybe cites should market themselves as cool places to be, rather than "places to raise a family"..Theres no pleasing these old suburbanites, they just keep running farther and farther away. I cant wait until gas prices hit $5 a gallon so the long commute will hurt em that much more.
April 20, 200619 yr I cant wait until gas prices hit $5 a gallon so the long commute will hurt em that much more. :laugh: Yeah~! I don't mind high gas prices one bit! F-Suburbanites!
April 20, 200619 yr WCPN had a couple nice features on the type of people moving downtown from the suburbs. These are pretty short, but pretty good: http://www.wcpn.org/mc/vault/radio_features/0413tradingDowntown.html http://www.wcpn.org/mc/vault/audio/0412bier.mp3
April 20, 200619 yr I read an article not too long ago that younger people were "fleeing" to the cities...Maybe cites should market themselves as cool places to be, rather than "places to raise a family"..Theres no pleasing these old suburbanites, they just keep running farther and farther away. I cant wait until gas prices hit $5 a gallon so the long commute will hurt em that much more. If gas ever hits $5 a gallon it going to effect more than just commuters. The price of EVERYTHING will skyrocket. Everything from products we buy. services we use, everything would go up except or wages.
April 20, 200619 yr Better quality of life my ass, a large chunk of thier lives are spent commuting :laugh: Americans commute longer, farther than ever NEW YORK (Reuters) - Dave Givens drives 370 miles to work and back every day and considers his seven-hour commute the best answer to balancing his work with his personal life. The winner of a nationwide contest to find the commuter with the longest trek, Givens is one of millions of people who are commuting longer and farther than ever before. More at http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060420/ts_nm/life_work_dc
April 20, 200619 yr Givens told Reuters. "I could do similar jobs closer, but not with the work reward and job satisfaction I have. And I could live closer, but I wouldn't have the lifestyle that I desire." I didn't realize having no life was now considered a "lifestyle".
April 20, 200619 yr The man with the 370-mile (round trip) commute could probably afford a small apartment near his job and just drive home on the weekends. The gas and wear-and-tear savings alone might cover the cost of the apartment. And he would have 6.5 hours more time each day. You have to wonder what the man's "lifestyle" is like to justify having zero free time.
April 20, 200619 yr I'm sorry but something would have to give. It's just ridiculous to travel that far to work. Hell, I'm reluctant to travel that far by car to go somewhere likd Chicago to see a concert. I can't imagine spending that amount of money on gas daily. That 7 seven hours would be better spent with his girlfriend/wife, kids, friends, or relaxing. THAT is a balanced lifestyle. Sitting in a car for 7 hours a day is not a healthy lifestyle no matter how you look at it.
April 20, 200619 yr This guy should be embarassed of this award, but strangely, he seems to be proud of it. Spending $185/week on gas and 7 hours in a car is pure stupidity. Let's break it down...$185/week is equivalent to $800/month or $9,620/year. That could either rent an apartment, or allow you to sell your home for something much nicer (and closer to work). This is completely ignoring the wear and tear costs of your car. The article also ignored the health impacts of sitting at a desk for 8 hours, in a car for 7 hours, and sleeping for 8 hours. If you're doing the math at home, that's 23 hours of the day. Then he's got 1 hour to eat, shower, and get ready for work.
April 24, 200619 yr A USA Today article that runs counter to this negative perspective, featuring some focus on Cleveland: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-04-20-cities_x.htm
April 24, 200619 yr Actually, Ohio is nowhere near as spread out as compared to the South. Columbus is the closest thing to the sprawl of a Southern city. Ohio's towns are both denser and a lot more numerous.
April 24, 200619 yr I agree...it wasn't that it was all glossy and positive...it just helps to put some important things into perspective. Ned Hill is one of my professors and he's one of those "tell it like it is" types. Very smart...not trying to make things sound better than they are, but also not mired in the negative numbers that so many "experts" and members of the press tend to dwell on.
April 24, 200619 yr I wouldn't mind living in Chicago. That's probably where I'll end up. Still gonna visit Cincy a lot though of course. I'll just have to get a bunch of skyline chili cans shipped to IL :) JMeck I don't think Columbus' sprawl is as bad as Cincy's and Cleveland's. I don't know where you're getting that from but if you look at maps showing populated areas, Cincinnati is sprawled all the way to damn near Dayton and Lebanon and Cleveland is sprawled all the way to Akron and beyond.
April 24, 200619 yr Columbus only seems like it isn't sprawling, because it has annexed a lot and much of the metroplitan area is actually "Columbus". If you look at actual land use, you will see how Columbus is quite sprawling and very suburban. For instance, most of I-270 is within the city of Columbus, and there is a ton of new sprawling office parks and strip malls being built along I-270 (far from downtown, but within Columbus nonetheless). Considering that so much development within "Columbus" is pushing outward and on the fringes, I would say they are doing a poorer job at dealing with sprawl than Cleveland and Cincinnati. In Cleveland and Cincinnati there is a real effort to bring shopping, offices, and multi-family buildings all downtown, but Columbus doesn't really care if it is on the outskirts of its city limits or downtown as long as they build it.
April 24, 200619 yr ^I agree, even the inner suburbs of Cleveland and Cincy are denser than neighborhoods on the edge of Columbus. But it still makes since that the Metro areas Cleveland and Cincinnati are more spread out because they are much larger than Columbus. Look on google Earth and only turn on the "City borders" layer and look at the types of housing developments being built in Columbus, but where "Columbus heights" would be if in Cincy or Cleveland.
April 25, 200619 yr The big strike against Columbus is that it can sprawl in 360°. Cleveland only has 180° to sprawl and Cincy has the hills and Kentucky to deal with. Just think about the equation for calculating area...A=pi*r^2. That's how a 12" pizza is more than twice as large as an 8" pizza.
April 25, 200619 yr That USA Today article was nice. I've recently been to both Atlanta & Washington DC, and I can't tell which one is more sprawling. But when it comes to affordable house prices, DC has to be one of the worst markets to live in, where you're getting the least amount of space for your dollar. Couple that with the incredibly dated public transit system they have there and you're looking at even less affordability. It's really incredible, the change that has occurred in Washington in the past six years since I left college there. Neighborhoods that were either thoroughly Hispanic/immigrant or black/ghetto have become overrun with young professionals. I can understand the reason for DC's growth (intense growth in the government contracting agencies) but why people move to Arizona and Nevada is beyond me. I suppose it must be spillover from California in the way that Jersey and Connecticut get spillover from NYC, but their inefficencies in terms of transportation, water use and conservation, and energy in general seem unsustainable and ripe for exploitation by a well-organized Midwestern State. Or maybe people like hiking in the mountains so much that a 5 hour commute is worth it.
May 20, 200619 yr >JMeck I don't think Columbus' sprawl is as bad as Cincy's and Cleveland's. I don't know where you're getting that from but if you look at maps showing populated areas, Cincinnati is sprawled all the way to damn near Dayton and Lebanon and Cleveland is sprawled all the way to Akron and beyond. Cincinnati has a larger area of pre-WWII construction than Columbus. Cincinnati has mostly sprawled up I-75 and I-71 because those are the primary routes to the north and the land up there is relatively flat. On the west side, sprawl west of the Mill Creek/Miami River watershed only began recently when sewer lines were constructed. There are also thousands of acres of land on flood plains within Cincinnati and Hamilton County which cannot be built on and in fact quite a bit was ordered demolished along creeks and tributary rivers by the Army Corps of Engineers.
May 24, 200619 yr >JMeck I don't think Columbus' sprawl is as bad as Cincy's and Cleveland's. I don't know where you're getting that from but if you look at maps showing populated areas, Cincinnati is sprawled all the way to damn near Dayton and Lebanon and Cleveland is sprawled all the way to Akron and beyond. Cincinnati has a larger area of pre-WWII construction than Columbus. Cincinnati has mostly sprawled up I-75 and I-71 because those are the primary routes to the north and the land up there is relatively flat. On the west side, sprawl west of the Mill Creek/Miami River watershed only began recently when sewer lines were constructed. There are also thousands of acres of land on flood plains within Cincinnati and Hamilton County which cannot be built on and in fact quite a bit was ordered demolished along creeks and tributary rivers by the Army Corps of Engineers. I don't consider Canton and Akron to be Cleveland sprawl because those are three historically distinct areas. Akron is a product of the Erie Canal and has had its own industry, media and social circles, for example. I don't think it was the classic Manhattan to Brooklyn move. My grandparents came to America via New York and went to Akron not Cleveland, for example. Columbus may be the largest city in Ohio population wise, but I don't really think it's much of a comparison because most of the population is within a gigantic area. You hit "Columbus" in farmland like 30 miles before you hit downtown. I think Columbus is a nice town, but from what I've seen, it seems to be growing in the modern West Coast style like Phoenix -- big area, growth all over the place within that area. I guess I could see that the Akron/Cleveland area is sprawling more than Columbus just because, on the whole, the metro area is bigger with more parts. We have plenty of housing here that has been accumulated over the many years of our history, yet people still want to keep going further out. I don't get it, though. I live in Lakewood, for example, and the houses here are great and they are just as cheap as some piece of junk that pops up on old farmland, yet people still move out. But that's America.
August 16, 200915 yr Tear down all the "bad" areas that are in every city in American. GIVE the land to developers and get out of their way.
September 13, 200915 yr (Psst, South Campus Gateway.) But, yes, you don't just level entire "bad"(whatever you mean by that) neighborhoods and give land to developers.
September 14, 200915 yr I consider myself a city mouse, but over the last few years, I've been thinking a lot about settling down in the Nevada desert. :lol:
September 14, 200915 yr I'm actually seriously considering something like a weeHouse, that I can plop down on a piece of land. Water, gas and power lines could prove a challenge, though.
September 14, 200915 yr I'm actually seriously considering something like a weeHouse, that I can plop down on a piece of land. Water, gas and power lines could prove a challenge, though. How dreadful.
September 14, 200915 yr The power line challenge or the general idea? The idea. I'm biased, as I'm a "city" guy. I couldn't live in the exuburs, countryside, etc.
September 14, 200915 yr The power line challenge or the general idea? The idea. I'm biased, as I'm a "city" guy. I couldn't live in the exuburs, countryside, etc. Like I mentioned before, I'm a city guy, too. That's why I'm gravitating toward the Nevada desert. Somewhere 30 minutes outside LA.
September 14, 200915 yr The power line challenge or the general idea? The idea. I'm biased, as I'm a "city" guy. I couldn't live in the exuburs, countryside, etc. Like I mentioned before, I'm a city guy, too. That's why I'm gravitating toward the Nevada desert. Somewhere 30 minutes outside LA. 30 Minutes?? LA is very spread out. I think you mean 3 hours outside of LA.
September 14, 200915 yr I'm actually seriously considering something like a weeHouse, that I can plop down on a piece of land. Water, gas and power lines could prove a challenge, though. My brother got a quarter acre in the middle of the desert for $500. He hasn't been able to find find it yet... needs to hire a surveyor, and there are no roads to it. The money would have been better spent buying a vacant inner city home in the midwest IMO
September 14, 200915 yr I'm actually seriously considering something like a weeHouse, that I can plop down on a piece of land. Water, gas and power lines could prove a challenge, though. My brother got a quarter acre in the middle of the desert for $500. He hasn't been able to find find it yet... needs to hire a surveyor, and there are no roads to it. The money would have been better spent buying a vacant inner city home in the midwest IMO Agreed!
September 14, 200915 yr The power line challenge or the general idea? The idea. I'm biased, as I'm a "city" guy. I couldn't live in the exuburs, countryside, etc. Like I mentioned before, I'm a city guy, too. That's why I'm gravitating toward the Nevada desert. Somewhere 30 minutes outside LA. 30 Minutes?? LA is very spread out. I think you mean 3 hours outside of LA. Nah, it's 30 minutes. I know my geography, MTS, and I know folks who live out there. :) I'm actually seriously considering something like a weeHouse, that I can plop down on a piece of land. Water, gas and power lines could prove a challenge, though. My brother got a quarter acre in the middle of the desert for $500. He hasn't been able to find find it yet... needs to hire a surveyor, and there are no roads to it. The money would have been better spent buying a vacant inner city home in the midwest IMO Huh. Sounds like your brother put the cart before the horse, there.
September 14, 200915 yr The power line challenge or the general idea? The idea. I'm biased, as I'm a "city" guy. I couldn't live in the exuburs, countryside, etc. Like I mentioned before, I'm a city guy, too. That's why I'm gravitating toward the Nevada desert. Somewhere 30 minutes outside LA. 30 Minutes?? LA is very spread out. I think you mean 3 hours outside of LA. Nah, it's 30 minutes. I know my geography, MTS, and I know folks who live out there. :) I live there. Please tell me where exactly this oasis is, 30 minutes outside of LA?
September 14, 200915 yr The power line challenge or the general idea? The idea. I'm biased, as I'm a "city" guy. I couldn't live in the exuburs, countryside, etc. Like I mentioned before, I'm a city guy, too. That's why I'm gravitating toward the Nevada desert. Somewhere 30 minutes outside LA. 30 Minutes?? LA is very spread out. I think you mean 3 hours outside of LA. Nah, it's 30 minutes. I know my geography, MTS, and I know folks who live out there. :) I live there. Please tell me where exactly this oasis is, 30 minutes outside of LA? Maybe he means by helicopter????
September 14, 200915 yr The power line challenge or the general idea? The idea. I'm biased, as I'm a "city" guy. I couldn't live in the exuburs, countryside, etc. Like I mentioned before, I'm a city guy, too. That's why I'm gravitating toward the Nevada desert. Somewhere 30 minutes outside LA. 30 Minutes?? LA is very spread out. I think you mean 3 hours outside of LA. Nah, it's 30 minutes. I know my geography, MTS, and I know folks who live out there. :) I live there. Please tell me where exactly this oasis is, 30 minutes outside of LA? Maybe he means by helicopter? :? I thought he meant by StarTrek teleporter! ;)
September 15, 200915 yr ^ Commuting sucks. Big time. When I lived in the 'burbs in Dayton and taught school and substituted, I spent so much on gas. My '98 Ranger actually does ok on gas all things considered (~25 mpg if I'm good to it). I did my student teaching in Greenville and had to drive 90 minutes round trip every day. That canceled out the money I thought I would save from not living in Athens and finishing up at home. I'm almost certain I could have afforded a place in Dayton had I not been commuting from the 'burbs all the time at $4 per gallon. Once you move out, you just make it work. I never should have moved back in with the folks, but you live and learn. I rarely fill up now, and can walk pretty much everywhere. I now think of a 20 minute drive to my Mom's house as a long drive.
September 15, 200915 yr The power line challenge or the general idea? The idea. I'm biased, as I'm a "city" guy. I couldn't live in the exuburs, countryside, etc. Like I mentioned before, I'm a city guy, too. That's why I'm gravitating toward the Nevada desert. Somewhere 30 minutes outside LA. 30 Minutes?? LA is very spread out. I think you mean 3 hours outside of LA. Nah, it's 30 minutes. I know my geography, MTS, and I know folks who live out there. :) I live there. Please tell me where exactly this oasis is, 30 minutes outside of LA? Nevada is a good 4 hours from LA, Moonlight (In traffic on a Friday maybe 8 hours...no joke). An oasis 30 mins outside of LA...hm, maybe he means your crib in San Bernadino, MTS :lol:
September 15, 200915 yr I meant Lousiana! Seriously, I meant LV. I don't know if it was a typo or if I was subconciously thinking about about LA (I'm working on a story set in Laurel Canyon). Nevada desert, 30 minutes outside of LAS VEGAS.
September 15, 200915 yr I meant Lousiana! Seriously, I meant LV. I don't know if it was a typo or if I was subconciously thinking about about LA (I'm working on a story set in Laurel Canyon). Nevada desert, 30 minutes outside of LAS VEGAS. Umm humm...sure! House wins! Better luck on the roulette table!
September 15, 200915 yr I commute 13 miles to work in downtown Toledo, and it is hell on earth! At 10am, the commute can take upwards of 30 minutes! At 5am, it's not as bad, more like 20 minutes due to zero traffic, but still, that's 20 minutes of my life I'll never get back (40 minutes round trip). It adds up fast. In total, I spend about ten hours a week inside a car! Even though gas is cheap and I drive an economy car, I still spend at least $75 a month on gas (about the price of two hookers in the north end). The only reason I don't live downtown is because I don't make enough money to afford it. Rents are like $500-$600 for a single, $700-$800 for a double, and nearly $1000 for three or four bedrooms (even with roommates, it still would be over my budget when including utlities). Downtown and the Warehouse District are the most expensive neighborhoods in Toledo. I can't spend more than $300, so despite having a job downtown, I can't live downtown. I might be able to swing something in Vistula, OWE, or East Toledo that's within budget. That's where I'm looking now. With roommates, all three of those areas would be around $300 per person including utilities. I'm at the point where I'll do anything to get me out of the suburbs...and "suburb" might be stretching where I live. It's more like "trashy rural outpost." I couldn't think of a more boring place to live if I tried, and I've met a couple people who actually prefer to live out here. Crazy. Commuting is the biggest waste of time and money ever devised by man. I can think of few things less fulfilling than sitting on my ass in a car going to the dungeon of corporate slavery. Would you be able to afford it if you ditched the car altogether? No car payments, gas, no car insurance, repairs, upkeep, etc. I was able to live Downtown and now just over a block away from the Short North since I ditched the car altogether. I would never want to go back. Just thinking about all that gas money I could have saved, used to travel, or spend on booze, or in your case make a special trip to the north end. ;D
September 15, 200915 yr I commute 13 miles to work in downtown Toledo, and it is hell on earth! At 10am, the commute can take upwards of 30 minutes! At 5am, it's not as bad, more like 20 minutes due to zero traffic, but still, that's 20 minutes of my life I'll never get back (40 minutes round trip). It adds up fast. In total, I spend about ten hours a week inside a car! Even though gas is cheap and I drive an economy car, I still spend at least $75 a month on gas (about the price of two hookers in the north end). The only reason I don't live downtown is because I don't make enough money to afford it. Rents are like $500-$600 for a single, $700-$800 for a double, and nearly $1000 for three or four bedrooms (even with roommates, it still would be over my budget when including utlities). Downtown and the Warehouse District are the most expensive neighborhoods in Toledo. I can't spend more than $300, so despite having a job downtown, I can't live downtown. I might be able to swing something in Vistula, OWE, or East Toledo that's within budget. That's where I'm looking now. With roommates, all three of those areas would be around $300 per person including utilities. I'm at the point where I'll do anything to get me out of the suburbs...and "suburb" might be stretching where I live. It's more like "trashy rural outpost." I couldn't think of a more boring place to live if I tried, and I've met a couple people who actually prefer to live out here. Crazy. Commuting is the biggest waste of time and money ever devised by man. I can think of few things less fulfilling than sitting on my ass in a car going to the dungeon of corporate slavery. Wow, you people in Ohio are spoiled!
September 15, 200915 yr Wow, you people in NW Ohio are spoiled! I fixed that for you. Cleveland rents maybe below national average, but they are not that cheap.
September 15, 200915 yr Decent apartments in downtown Cincy are much, much more expensive than Toledo, apparently.
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