More

 

And

 

 

17 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Coverage on the Ohio parts of the Amtrak proposal from CLE dot com, including quotes from Stu Nicholson (All Aboard Ohio) and Grace Gallucci (NOACA)

Amtrak looking at major expansion in Cleveland, with possible service to Columbus, Cincinnati

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2021/02/amtrak-looking-at-major-expansion-in-cleveland-with-possible-service-to-columbus-cincinnati.html

...

Grace Gullucci, executive director of the Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency, has a meeting scheduled with Amtrak on Thursday. “They have told us they are seriously looking at making investments in Ohio,” she said. “We’re very excited about it.”

 

She described any discussion about increasing multimodal transportation in the region as a step in the right direction. “Amtrak is a service that is available to all people,” she said. “It can connect lots of communities with lots of opportunities.”

....

The article also says Amtrak has contacted Ashtabula city officials about restarting service there.

 

 

12 hours ago, KJP said:

More

 

And

 

 

I find it interesting and encouraging that the Amtrak article is still top of the page on CLE dot com nearly 20 hrs after first posting. I’m not sure how their algorithms work, but I’m hoping it’s a reflection of clicks. 

Look at AAO's twitter posting when we first shared the news about it (actually the Ashtabula Star-Beacon broke the story!). It went viral. So did our Facebook posting about it. We've never had social media posts get thousands of likes and shares like this.

As prompted by KJP, I wrote my state Rep Cecil Thomas.

His response:

 

Thank you for writing to my office. I support any additional funding for public transit in Cincinnati, Hamilton County, and Ohio. Our state has not progressed the way it should have in this area and transit across Ohio should be more than just our highways. I will be advocating for funding in the upcoming budget to hopefully bring the Amtrak plan to fruition.

Best,
Senator Thomas

 

No response from Gov DeWine’s office yet. 

I learned that I should actually be encouraging you to write to your US Congressperson and two Senators, Brown and Portman.

 

The message is to support H.R. 2 that was passed by the House of Representatives in June 2020. The Senate never considered a companion bill. Passing a reintroduced version of this same bill would fully fund passenger rail development in the USA at $60 billion over five years. It would also authorize Amtrak to initiate a new $25 billion program to introduce passenger rail services to populous states like Ohio that have no such program. Remember, this is just an authorization to create programs and set funding ceilings. We would still need to go through the federal sppropriations process later on to put actual dollars into these new programs.

 

I talked with someone from ODOT and they said there was a statewide meeting about this recent Amtrak talk and the following quote paraphrases what was said in the meeting:

 

“There would have to be federal legislative changes as well as state legislative changes and neither DeWine nor ODOT is entertaining questions about Amtrak because no steps have been taken to even develop a proposal for statewide trains. 

 

The takeaway from the meeting is that it is still a pipe dream.”

it seems like it'd just be good business if amtrak is responsible for the building cost and paying a significant portion of the operation costs for the first handful of years.

2 hours ago, CBUS_Res said:

I talked with someone from ODOT and they said there was a statewide meeting about this recent Amtrak talk and the following quote paraphrases what was said in the meeting:

 

“There would have to be federal legislative changes as well as state legislative changes and neither DeWine nor ODOT is entertaining questions about Amtrak because no steps have been taken to even develop a proposal for statewide trains. 

 

The takeaway from the meeting is that it is still a pipe dream.”

 

I expect legislation to be passed by Congress and signed by President Biden before Spring.

 

FYI: the state doesn't have to do anything for at least a couple of years.

On 9/11/2020 at 12:28 PM, KJP said:

 

Maybe not, but it's the best deal Amtrak has offered to states so far. Not only are the proposing up to 100 percent federal funding of start-up capital costs but also 100 percent federal funding of operating costs for the first couple of years, then descending to lesser shares in subsequent years. To me, that sounds like a pretty good deal -- assuming Congress passes it. If they do, it should come with harder enforcement of Amtrak's GAAP compliance.

That does sound like a good deal, but what would line speeds be in the end?

One of the great things about rail is that there is no end. You can keep upgrading or augmenting a rail line to provide faster and faster speeds. That's why all high speed rail services (so far) are the result of evolution rather than creation.

12 minutes ago, KJP said:

One of the great things about rail is that there is no end. You can keep upgrading or augmenting a rail line to provide faster and faster speeds. That's why all high speed rail services (so far) are the result of evolution rather than creation.

That’s very true

i realized while mapping out my fictional White Lion Railways that a near straight shot between Columbus and Akron/Cleveland for Dedicated High speed rail is actually possible as it doesn’t hit towns along the way in a way that would lead to places getting torn down or other stuff, I would need to check the Columbus to Dayton/Cincinnati side of the line again, however

Edited February 4, 20214 yr by Julian
Spell check

3 minutes ago, Julian said:

That’s very true

i realized while mapping out my fictional White Lion Railways that a near straight shot between Columbus and Akron/Cleveland for Dedicated High speed rail is actually possible as it doesn’t hit towns along the way in a way that would lead to places getting torn down or other stuff, I would need to check the Columbus to Dayton/Cincinnati side of the line again, however

A line that doesn’t hit towns along the way defeats one of the primary benefits of rail - multiple destination pairs along the line. 

1 minute ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

A line that doesn’t hit towns along the way defeats one of the primary benefits of rail - multiple destination pairs along the line. 

Well, I’m saying it doesn’t pass dead center, it skims the outskirts of many small towns, and too many stops would defeat the point of High Speed rail, whereas there could also a Local service, per say, that could have small stops in those towns, something my own WLRW does as well.

And my WLRW reflects RL goals for local and state wide rail transport

Obviously there is still a long way to go to make this proposal a reality, but at least it's promising.  I'm curious - which of the five new proposed Ohio routes would you be most excited about?  3C&D, Cin-Chi, CLE-Buff-NYC, CLE-Toledo-Det (-and hopefully Chicago), or CLE-Pitt-Philly-NYC? For me it's 3C&D by a wide margin - I drive CLE-Columbus frequently. My next favorite would be increased frequency of the Lake Shore Limited or some other improved Chicago service, which isn't even something that's been proposed, but would be really helpful for me.  That said, I'm all about supporting the current proposal.

 

 

Complete map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=15lcIcdt6ccSaZsZlUVtirtBH_kxw-yGG&usp=sharing

 

Ohio 3C&D. 3x daily. Cleveland – CLE Hopkins airport – Grafton – Crestline – Delaware – Columbus – Springfield – Wright State / Wright Patt AFB – Dayton – Middletown – Sharonville – Cincinnati

 

Cin-Indy-Chi. 4x daily. Cincinnati – Oxford, OH – Indianapolis – Lafayette – Chicago (plus other Indiana stations). Complements 3x weekly Cardinal (Chi-Indy-WV-Charlottesville VA-DC-Philly-NYC)

 

CLE-Buff-Albany-NYC. 2x daily. Cleveland – Ashtabula – Erie – Buffalo – Rochester – Syracuse – Utica – Schenectady – Albany – Poughkeepsie – Croton-Harmon – NYC Penn Station. Complements daily Lake Shore Limited (Chicago-Toledo-CLE-Buff-Albany-NYC/Boston)

 

CLE-Det and possibly Chi. 3x daily. Cleveland – CLE Hopkins airport – Elyria – Sandusky – Toledo – ?Detroit Airport? – Detroit – Pontiac. Possible extension to Chicago through Ann Arbor – Jackson – Kalamazoo on 110 MPH track w other stops in MI

 

CLE-Pitt-Philly-NYC. 1x daily. Cleveland – Hudson or Macedonia – Alliance [or Warren – Youngstown] – Beaver Falls, PA – Pittsburgh – Harrisburg – Philly – NYC Penn Station (w additional stops in Penn and NJ). For CLE-Pitt, complements daily Capitol Limited (Chi-Toledo-CLE-Pitt-DC)

I’d prefer to go to Chicago via train without spending significant time in Michigan.  High speed to chicago would be amazing as in 110mph.  That would absolutely be the way to fly to Chicago from Cleveland. 

A couple observations about the Cincinnati-area stuff...there are no grade crossings in the five miles between CUT and Ivorydale Junction. 

 

North of that point:

Ivorydale Junction > Hamilton has 28 grade crossings in 19 miles of track.

Hamilton to Oxford has an additional 18 grade crossings in 13 miles of track.

Ivorydale Junction > Butler County Line has 18 grade crossings in 10 miles of track.

 

-It should be possible, without extreme expense, to re-activate the old 3-mile Sharon Yard passenger train bypass.  The ROW is still intact, including one bridge which is regularly hit by delivery trucks. 

 

Here is the bridge:

 

Here is some of the abandoned ROW (there used to be a bridge in this spot):

 

There is only one platform at CUT.  If the Riverfront Transit Center is used instead, there is space for two platforms, except The Cardinal would still have to use CUT to avoid a backing maneuver to get over the bridge. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

There is only one platform at CUT.

I can't find it, but I remember the most recent OKI 2040 Plan had funding for an additional Amtrak platform at CUT to accommodate future Amtrak routes.  I imagine that gets increased priority if this becomes closer to reality.

3 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

A couple observations about the Cincinnati-area stuff...there are no grade crossings in the five miles between CUT and Ivorydale Junction. 

 

North of that point:

Ivorydale Junction > Hamilton has 28 grade crossings in 19 miles of track.

Hamilton to Oxford has an additional 18 grade crossings in 13 miles of track.

Ivorydale Junction > Butler County Line has 18 grade crossings in 10 miles of track.

 

-It should be possible, without extreme expense, to re-activate the old 3-mile Sharon Yard passenger train bypass.  The ROW is still intact, including one bridge which is regularly hit by delivery trucks. 

 

Here is the bridge:

 

Here is some of the abandoned ROW (there used to be a bridge in this spot):

 

There is only one platform at CUT.  If the Riverfront Transit Center is used instead, there is space for two platforms, except The Cardinal would still have to use CUT to avoid a backing maneuver to get over the bridge. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I was pretty much guessing on the Cincinnati area route for 3C&D. And the Cardinal route I downloaded from Wikipedia - their line just connects station to station, not showing the specific route. (I added Oxford.) Are you saying that the route to Indy could go CUT -Sharonville - Hamilton - Oxford? That would be nice. 

10 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Yeah, I was pretty much guessing on the Cincinnati area route for 3C&D. And the Cardinal route I downloaded from Wikipedia - their line just connects station to station, not showing the specific route. (I added Oxford.) Are you saying that the route to Indy could go CUT -Sharonville - Hamilton - Oxford? That would be nice. 

 

Well the point I'm getting at is that improving the speed of trains in Hamilton County improves the speed for all trains.  The longer all trains share the same track, the better the case for using the same approach, even if it's a little longer for one route. 

 

If the Chicago route can me made to jump over to the Sharonville tracks (no track connection currently exists) then an argument could be made to grade separate the entire line south of that point which would allow the trains to operate at 80+mph between Sharonville and CUT. 

 

The jumpover spot that is the shortest is in Downtown Hamilton:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hamilton,+OH/@39.3965313,-84.5623619,938m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8840464e3b405489:0x215a7220815dfea5!8m2!3d39.3995008!4d-84.5613355

 

The second shortest is about 2 miles south of that point, where tracks could cross an open field near the Butler County Airport:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hamilton,+OH/@39.3582288,-84.5336236,1366m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8840464e3b405489:0x215a7220815dfea5!8m2!3d39.3995008!4d-84.5613355

 

That line is single track all the way down to General Electric.  There is ample space to double track that line and turn one track into a dedicated passenger rail track.  Here is where the Chicago and Dayton>Columbus>Cleveland routes would join if The Cardinal and the new Chicago service can be made to change routes inbound from Hamilton:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hamilton,+OH/@39.2496397,-84.4379225,1319m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8840464e3b405489:0x215a7220815dfea5!8m2!3d39.3995008!4d-84.5613355

 

It is approximately 12 miles from that point south to CUT.  If the trains average 30mph, which is about what freight trains do in that area, it will take 24 minutes.  Full grade separation and a dedicated passenger track would enable the new passenger trains to run 80-110mph for 12 miles, and so would cut 10 minutes off the running time of every inbound and outbound train. 

 

31 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Well the point I'm getting at is that improving the speed of trains in Hamilton County improves the speed for all trains.  The longer all trains share the same track, the better the case for using the same approach, even if it's a little longer for one route. 

 

If the Chicago route can me made to jump over to the Sharonville tracks (no track connection currently exists) then an argument could be made to grade separate the entire line south of that point which would allow the trains to operate at 80+mph between Sharonville and CUT. 

 

The jumpover spot that is the shortest is in Downtown Hamilton:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hamilton,+OH/@39.3965313,-84.5623619,938m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8840464e3b405489:0x215a7220815dfea5!8m2!3d39.3995008!4d-84.5613355

 

The second shortest is about 2 miles south of that point, where tracks could cross an open field near the Butler County Airport:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hamilton,+OH/@39.3582288,-84.5336236,1366m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8840464e3b405489:0x215a7220815dfea5!8m2!3d39.3995008!4d-84.5613355

 

That line is single track all the way down to General Electric.  There is ample space to double track that line and turn one track into a dedicated passenger rail track.  Here is where the Chicago and Dayton>Columbus>Cleveland routes would join if The Cardinal and the new Chicago service can be made to change routes inbound from Hamilton:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hamilton,+OH/@39.2496397,-84.4379225,1319m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8840464e3b405489:0x215a7220815dfea5!8m2!3d39.3995008!4d-84.5613355

 

It is approximately 12 miles from that point south to CUT.  If the trains average 30mph, which is about what freight trains do in that area, it will take 24 minutes.  Full grade separation and a dedicated passenger track would enable the new passenger trains to run 80-110mph for 12 miles, and so would cut 10 minutes off the running time of every inbound and outbound train. 

 

Thanks! What route does the Cardinal take now? Is it those tracks west of I-75 that go through Wyoming? If I’m understanding this right - does that mean any of the routes for Cin-Indy-Chicago would go through Hamilton? If so I’ll add a Hamilton station to my maps. 

 

6 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Thanks! What route does the Cardinal take now? Is it those tracks west of I-75 that go through Wyoming? If I’m understanding this right - does that mean any of the routes for Cin-Indy-Chicago would go through Hamilton? If so I’ll add a Hamilton station to my maps. 

 

 

Yes it goes through Oxford and Hamilton and then on the tracks that go through Glendale. 

 

To better simplify my previous posts - the two services will join at the Ivorydale Junction, where a fourth mainline has been wanted for many years.  If both passenger services pass through the junction at-grade, there will be significant delays to freight and passenger trains throughout the week.  An at-grade passing through the junction could be avoided with a flying crossover, but the high cost of the crossover doesn't make much sense for a low volume of passenger trains.  If they're all on one route, then it makes more sense.  If passenger service is concentrated on the southernmost track of the bunch (which is the same side as the CUT platforms) then there is no need at all for a flying crossover. 

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

 

 

 

I really like this route for CLE, but would take the 3C first and foremost. 

 

**Also, to see my hometown on this map is quite astounding. Brick Township NJ, when I was growing up was about 30 square miles of pine barren forest....and there were STILL dirt roads in my neighborhood.  

It’s not likely to happen but if Cincinnati wanted to use the Riverfront Transit Center as the main station, you might be able to convince Amtrak to reroute the Cardinal to cross the River at Huntington WV, follow NS tracks to Portsmouth and utilize the old NS Peavine to Cincinnati. It wouldn’t take much to upgrade those tracks. It would also help if Cincinnati wanted to do commuter rail from Milford so there could be a cost-sharing benefit for track improvements. 

Edited February 9, 20214 yr by JaceTheAce41

3 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

It’s not likely to happen but if Cincinnati wanted to use the Riverfront Transit Center as the main station, you might be able to convince Amtrak to reroute the Cardinal to cross the River at Huntington WV, follow NS tracks to Portsmouth and utilize the old NS Peavine to Cincinnati. It wouldn’t take much to upgrade those tracks. It would also help if Cincinnati wanted to do commuter rail from Milford so there could be a cost-sharing benefit for track improvements. 

I would love for that to happen! That line runs right through my hometown of Peebles. Not much freight traffic travels through there anymore but it is more than it was 10 years ago.

I feel like businesses that could be positively impacted by some of these proposals could also speak up at the state level.  If the line that goes through Sandusky was built, Cedar Fair could use that kind of connectivity to bring people to Cedar Point without having to rent a car possibly.  With the proximity to Hopkins and multiple trains per day, this could benefit Cleveland and Sandusky, for example.  Just spitballing, but there are possibilities.

All Aboard Ohio board met with Amtrak this evening. Some highlights:

 

 

 

That last tweet has a proposed timetable for the Cleveland trains:

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 20214 yr by X
Sorry folks, but it has come to my attention that the timetable was confidential information that got accidentally released.

17 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

It’s not likely to happen but if Cincinnati wanted to use the Riverfront Transit Center as the main station, you might be able to convince Amtrak to reroute the Cardinal to cross the River at Huntington WV, follow NS tracks to Portsmouth and utilize the old NS Peavine to Cincinnati. It wouldn’t take much to upgrade those tracks. It would also help if Cincinnati wanted to do commuter rail from Milford so there could be a cost-sharing benefit for track improvements. 

 

I didn't think of that but you're right, this technically would work.  Since there are no trains on the Peavine line currently, Amtrak presumably could operate at max speed, 110mph.

 

I've also often thought that a daily train to and from Athens, OH via Portsmouth would be a really valuable service.  Portsmouth and Athens are each very small, of course, but there are many people out there without cars.  

 

 

In chatter elsewhere, I have seen people remark on how bad the situation is around CUT.  If you look at the tracks on Google Earth, the Cardinal currently cuts across the throat to the intermodal yard.  Some have suggested that Amtrak *buy* the intermodal yard to use for its own purposes and so that trains can be routed past it without incident.  Where the intermodal yard might be relocated to is unclear.

 

This is actually a really good idea because the only viable alternative to buying it outright is digging a tunnel under it a distance of 1.5 miles.  Unfortunately, the Western Hills Viaduct is a wall that prevents a simple bridge over the two yard throats.  The Ohio High Speed Rail proposal from the early 1980s wanted to dig a tunnel under the yard so that CUT trains could achieve a high speed directly out of the station and avoid conflicts with the intermodal yard.  

 

It *might* be possible to lay a new single track along the eastern perimeter of the southern half of the intermodal yard but you can see here that the active passenger rail track would have to travel directly through the container-sorting area north of the viaduct:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cincinnati+Union+Terminal/@39.1174665,-84.5401254,362m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b41df6f9b85f:0x16a2953f0464f89c!8m2!3d39.1099204!4d-84.5376308

 

There is not a direct track linkage at present between the south side of CUT and the track that leads to the Riverfront Transit Center.  I believe that we could see land in or near Longworth Hall recruited as yard space for Amtrak.  

  

 

 

Have we heard anything more from state lawmakers on all of this? I'd like to get a temperature check of how our leaders are feeling about these proposals. 

Edited February 10, 20214 yr by BigDipper 80

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

I didn't think of that but you're right, this technically would work.  Since there are no trains on the Peavine line currently, Amtrak presumably could operate at max speed, 110mph.

 

I've also often thought that a daily train to and from Athens, OH via Portsmouth would be a really valuable service.  Portsmouth and Athens are each very small, of course, but there are many people out there without cars.  

 

 

 

Cincinnati East Terminal Railroad runs a train a week out to Adams County. Claire Yard might be used for an Amtrak/Cincy Commuter Rail yard and maintenance facility. 

 

14 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

In chatter elsewhere, I have seen people remark on how bad the situation is around CUT.  If you look at the tracks on Google Earth, the Cardinal currently cuts across the throat to the intermodal yard.  Some have suggested that Amtrak *buy* the intermodal yard to use for its own purposes and so that trains can be routed past it without incident.  Where the intermodal yard might be relocated to is unclear.

 

This is actually a really good idea because the only viable alternative to buying it outright is digging a tunnel under it a distance of 1.5 miles.  Unfortunately, the Western Hills Viaduct is a wall that prevents a simple bridge over the two yard throats.  The Ohio High Speed Rail proposal from the early 1980s wanted to dig a tunnel under the yard so that CUT trains could achieve a high speed directly out of the station and avoid conflicts with the intermodal yard.  

 

It *might* be possible to lay a new single track along the eastern perimeter of the southern half of the intermodal yard but you can see here that the active passenger rail track would have to travel directly through the container-sorting area north of the viaduct:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cincinnati+Union+Terminal/@39.1174665,-84.5401254,362m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8841b41df6f9b85f:0x16a2953f0464f89c!8m2!3d39.1099204!4d-84.5376308

 

There is not a direct track linkage at present between the south side of CUT and the track that leads to the Riverfront Transit Center.  I believe that we could see land in or near Longworth Hall recruited as yard space for Amtrak.  

  

 

 

 

IIRC the intermodal yard is one of the  more busy yards in the country so it would be a huge task to relocate it. Looking at Google Earth it looks like Amtrak runs on the main and CUT is served by one siding that splits into three a little north of the passenger platform. I still think CUT needs to be a key part of any rail plan for Cincinnati. I also think that eventually a light rail or streetcar line needs to run from/past CUT and across downtown towards to Casino with shared stops with the current streetcar or future light rail to circulate commuters downtown. In SLC the Blue Line on the TRAX light rail system terminates at our Central Station which serves commuter rail and the California Zephyr.

26 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said:

 

Cincinnati East Terminal Railroad runs a train a week out to Adams County. Claire Yard might be used for an Amtrak/Cincy Commuter Rail yard and maintenance facility. 

 

Here is the famous dirt pile:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Peebles,+OH+45660/@38.9423389,-83.3008832,47m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8846c56515f947a5:0x2382599a051b7610!8m2!3d38.9489593!4d-83.4057458

 

If Amtrak were to move The Cardinal to this line, it looks like they'd have to double track 1+ mile to allow the operation out there to store all of those hopper cars.  

 

If they use the Clare Yard, perhaps they'd use the opportunity to extend the bike trail around its north boundary so that the Wasson Way trail can be connected to the Loveland trail near 50 West.  

 

 

1 hour ago, BigDipper 80 said:

Have we heard anything more from state lawmakers on all of this? I'd like to get a temperature check of how our leaders are feeling about these proposals. 

Here’s one I didn’t expect:

 

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/antani-amtrak-proposal-sounds-great-but-ohio-must-do-due-diligence-first/CDKG4MDMXVFIXFZXI3I6GILAZ4/

 

By (Republican State Senator) Niraj Antani, Guest columnist

 

 

“I believe Ohio should thoroughly explore the most recent proposal from Amtrak.

“An expanded transportation network will increase Ohio’s ability to attract business to the state and better our quality of life,"

- Niraj Antani 

...

“Having a new passenger rail opportunity alongside our network of cars and planes provides more choices to our consumers and industries.  An expanded transportation network will increase Ohio’s ability to attract business to the state and better our quality of life.

...

“However, we need to approach this proposal with caution.
...

“I know this requires state authorization. With caution in mind, Ohio should do its due diligence in considering this proposal and I look forward to discussion.”

Quote

Also, it is crucial that we ensure the project is completed without the use of eminent domain. Commercial land, homes and farms should not be taken from Ohioans for rail travel.

Where were these anti-eminent domain people in the 50s? Oh yeah, those were mostly Black businesses and homes taken for freeways. 

22 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

Where were these anti-eminent domain people in the 50s? Oh yeah, those were mostly Black businesses and homes taken for freeways. 

 

Railroads have always had the right to employ eminent domain, from the 1800s through today:

https://thetexan.news/controversy-over-eminent-domain-for-high-speed-rail-continues/

 

Amtrak has the right to both buy property for new tracks and the right to buy existing tracks from other railroads:

https://www.joc.com/amtraks-big-victory_19920330.html

 

 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Here’s one I didn’t expect:

 

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/antani-amtrak-proposal-sounds-great-but-ohio-must-do-due-diligence-first/CDKG4MDMXVFIXFZXI3I6GILAZ4/

 

Really? It's exactly what I expected. Some nice soundbites about economy and population growth, with a bunch of unrealistic expectations that set the stage for them to oppose it later. For example:

 

Quote

Any significant investment needs to be carefully thought out. The federal government is trillions of dollars in debt. It is important to note that state funding going to this project could potentially divert funding from our schools, Medicaid, and other resources benefitting our children and people in-need.

 

Is there any reason this thread is called "Ohio Hub/Midwest Regional Rail/ORDC" instead of something simpler like "Ohio Intercity Rail"? It seems unnecessarily complicated.

2 hours ago, Mendo said:

 

Really? It's exactly what I expected. Some nice soundbites about economy and population growth, with a bunch of unrealistic expectations that set the stage for them to oppose it later. For example:

 

 

Yeah, out of one side of his mouth he says "we have to cut, cut cut" and out of the other side of his mouth he says "it's the trains that will cause us to underfund schools and Medicaid, not all these other tax cuts". It's only a no-sum game when you remove taxation as an option altogether. 

1 hour ago, ryanlammi said:

Is there any reason this thread is called "Ohio Hub/Midwest Regional Rail/ORDC" instead of something simpler like "Ohio Intercity Rail"? It seems unnecessarily complicated.

There are at least five different threads on intercity Ohio on the front page of the rail section alone. Each covers a different corridor. I think it’s confusing to have all those different threads and I agree it would make sense to merge them. 

From now on, any discussion about Ohio Intercity Rail will go in this thread instead of the mess of threads that were all created. The old topics were too vague and overlapped.

 

If a project gets to the construction phase, we can create a thread for that project. Until then, this is all just hypothetical and based on any intercity rail in the state.

18 hours ago, Mendo said:

 

Really? It's exactly what I expected. Some nice soundbites about economy and population growth, with a bunch of unrealistic expectations that set the stage for them to oppose it later. For example:

If we want passenger rail in Ohio, we HAVE TO have the support of Republican politicians. So I will take a cautiously positive Op Ed over the typical immediate “we can’t afford that” response we normally get from that crowd. 

I hit up my friend high up in the Dewine administration, wouldn’t commit one way or the other but said they would be seriously looking at the Amtrak proposals. Of course this was at the same time they were slashing transit funds from the budget.  Didn’t give me a positive vibe.

Edited February 17, 20214 yr by Taller_is_better

3 hours ago, Taller_is_better said:

I hit up my friend high up in the Dewine administration, wouldn’t commit one way or the other but said they would be seriously looking at the Amtrak proposals. Of course this was at the same time they were slashing transit funds from the budget.  Didn’t give me a positive vibe.

 

I'm wondering if Dewine has a "transit task force" that's just like his revered energy siting board. 

Through Rep. Mike Skindell, All Aboard Ohio and the MOVE OHIO coalition are seeking these amendments to the ODOT budget bill:

 

1. Ohio rejoining the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Commission at $15,000 per year in each of the next two years.

2. Removing the requirement that the Ohio Rail Development Commission pursue 3C Corridor as Ohio's first route.

3. requiring that any passenger rail capital project receive a simple majority of approval from the Ohio Rail Development Commission (they currently must have a supermajority from the Ohio State Controlling Board to approve a passenger rail capital project).

4. Allow TRAC funding to be used for modernizing Greater Cleveland RTA's rail fleet.

5. Legislative study commission for sustainable public transit funding.

6. Lower EV registration fees.

7. use rental car tax/fees for public transit.

8. On transit funding, three amendments will be submitted:

$100 million - $50 grf, $50 fed flex   [this is what OPTA is pushing]

$150 million - $100 grf, $50 fed flex

$100 million – all fed flex

 

Oxford / Miami U: City makes progress on new Amtrak station

 

https://www.miamistudent.net/article/2021/02/city-makes-progress-on-new-amtrak-station?fbclid=IwAR1DLFk_qt_6fxGBAOTDrbUB_lOHm9nn1WTgGKylN2Bgs_vLsHYVQxcmQOg

 

"Students may soon have a new way to get to Oxford. The City of Oxford, in partnership with Miami University, has moved forward in creating an Amtrak station in the city. Oxford will be added as a stop to the Cardinal Line, which runs from Washington D.C. to Chicago. 

 

"Jessica Greene, assistant city manager, explained the Amtrak station has been a project in Oxford since at least 2017.  [She] said the city has allocated $300,000 to the project, and Miami has collected another $300,000."

 

There's additional interesting info in the article.  If it's been in the works since 2017, that's well before Amtrak announced its expansion plans, so this was originally being worked on for just the 3x weekly (each direction) Cardinal Line.  Also, it looks like they are coordinating with the development of a new bus terminal for the Butler County RTA.

 

Hopefully Hamilton gets something moving too!

 

Look for an article from the Hamilton newspaper soon.

Hamilton eyeing options for saving historic CSX station: What could it be?
 

[Um, how about, I don’t know, make it a train station.  Seriously, how was that not even mentioned in this article?]

 

https://www.journal-news.com/news/hamilton-eyeing-options-for-saving-historic-csx-station-what-could-it-be/3PYFH33XOJDONDB2SMOZ5PJ7VU/

 

Mayor Pat Moeller plans to call a meeting of people interested in saving the historic CSX railroad station along South Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard.

“I cannot give any update which is exactly where we want to be, but I do know that there is great interest amongst citizens as well as historic groups,” Moeller said.

 

 

On 2/17/2021 at 11:58 AM, KJP said:

Through Rep. Mike Skindell, All Aboard Ohio and the MOVE OHIO coalition are seeking these amendments to the ODOT budget bill:

.....

8. On transit funding, three amendments will be submitted:

$100 million - $50 grf, $50 fed flex   [this is what OPTA is pushing]

$150 million - $100 grf, $50 fed flex

$100 million – all fed flex

 

@KJP--what does #8, above, mean? what is "grf"?

28 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Hamilton eyeing options for saving historic CSX station: What could it be?
 

 

Potentially? A pile of rubble. It's not at a good location in at couple of respects. First, it's at the junction of two lines -- the lightly used CSX freight and Amtrak line to Indianapolis and the busy north-south CSX freight line. Stopping Amtrak trains at/near this junction creates congestion issues for CSX. Only a significant and expensive reworking of the track layout at this junction would solve this, including adding ADA-compliant pedestrian overpasses or underpasses of the tracks. Second, the Amtrak track is on a curve here, complicating ADA gap-compliance here between the train and platform. A straight section of track is the ideal local for a station platform. And third, the station is in a not-so-hot part of town, from what I understand. Plus, CSX owns the station building and they want it gone. I doubt they would sell it unless the buyer could feasibly move it.

 

19 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

@KJP--what does #8, above, mean? what is "grf"?

 

General Revenue Funds.