So, does this mean that Mansfield might get a stop on the 3C instead of Galion? If so, that would be awesome!

If the 3-C were rerouted to follow tracks that take it through Akron/Canton, then it could take tracks through Mansfield. Otherwise the direct 3-C tracks miss Mansfield, operating via Galion and Shelby.

Thanks. Well, I hope they are able to go with the Akron/Canton/Mansfield track option.

Cleveland-Cincinnati passenger rail service plan gets boost from Congress

Posted by Karen Farkas/Plain Dealer Reporter December 04, 2008 23:15PM

Categories: Real Time News

 

Associated PressPassenger rail service from Cleveland to Cincinnati could be up and running by 2010 if the state receives a $100 million grant.

 

Passenger rail service from Cleveland to Cincinnati could be a reality by 2010 if the state gets $100 million in proposed infrastructure stimulus money.

 

The Ohio Rail Development Commission also intends to apply next year for federal matching grants from a passenger rail bill passed by Congress this fall.

 

.....

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/clevelandcincinnati_passenger.html

I'm surprised more people here haven't responded to this news. The responses on Cleveland.com are actually positive, for the most part!!

 

If this funding is approved, it doesn't require a state/local match. Stimulus funding is 100 percent federal. This could be a HUGE step forward.

This is great news indeed!!  Lets hope that this funding passes.  We need this in Ohio!

Very exciting news indeed!  One item from the story that was a bit unclear - what is the $200 million being requested for?  The writer indicates that is for planning and design of the Ohio Hub. Is it for the entire Ohio Hub or just the initial routes?

Yeah, now if only we could get Regional Rail service started to/from Downtown Cleveland

tt342998 .....  the $200-million would cover both the proposed state-supported Amtrak "start-up" service in the 3-C Corridor (including phasing in expanded service after the start-up gets going) and also to do the federally-required environmental review work for the long-range Ohio Hub Plan.

tt342998 .....  the $200-million would cover both the proposed state-supported Amtrak "start-up" service in the 3-C Corridor (including phasing in expanded service after the start-up gets going) and also to do the federally-required environmental review work for the long-range Ohio Hub Plan.

 

Is the cost of the environmental work for the full Ohio Hub plan (1200 mile, 46 station) included in that cost?  If so, that would be even better news as right-of-way could start to be reserved, encroachments prevented, etc on all the corridors.

 

Yes....I believe so.

 

Keep in mind as well that these are "Stimulus II" $$$$.  If approved, we still haven't begun to tap into the new matching funds (80% Fed / 20% state) created by the recently passed Passenger Rail Investment & Improvement Act.... ($1.9-billion a year for 5 years).  Ohio can be doing some serious passenger rail work in the next several years.

 

Anything that gets us even a day closer to riding more and better trains is a good thing.

I am concerned about redundancy leading to the failure of the Ohio train system.  How do 3-C and Ohio hub differ?  Would they eventually be part of the same network?  Does 2010 seem ridiculously optimistic to anyone else?  The study has not concluded, land would need to be ED and stations/Park-n-rides need to be designed and constructed.  Perhaps a little too ambitious, or are my Cincinnati roots interfering?

^No interfering roots.  You just need to be brought up to speed:

 

The 3-C is one corridor in the Ohio Hub:  http://www2.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/Ohio%20Hub/Website/ordc/index.html

 

The Ohio Hub (including the 3-C) will use existing rights-of-way and maybe restore part of an abandoned right-of-way or two.  Many station sites already exist, though a few need to be determined. 

 

As I understand it, 2010 is for just the Cleveland-Columbus (2-C) portion of the 3-C.  The Ohio Hub is going to have to be built incrementally.  It's too big of a project to go from zero to 8-10 daily 110 mph trains on the proposed corridors.  Each corridor will probably start up with 2-3 daily trains at 79 mph, then be improved from there. 

 

 

 

P.S.  Question for Noozer:, what happened to the www.ohiohub.com domain? The one above that replaced it is overly cumbersome. 

No redundancy is occurring. The 3-C Corridor is but one route in the proposed Ohio Hub System, and according to state law, must be the first route which the state pursues as part of any statewide/regional system. The latest version of that proposed system is the Ohio Hub. The plan for the regional system is but a template to guide immediate activities like 3-C.

 

The scenario is that Amtrak is pursuing two daily round trips as the initial service for 3-C, sponsored by the state and funded primarily by the federal government. If the service's performance at least meets expectations, then there would likely be an expansion of service sought.

 

Meanwhile, additional passenger services may be sought for other routes included in the Ohio Hub plan (in no particular order):

 

> Detroit - Toledo - Cleveland - Youngstown - Pittsburgh;

> Columbus - Lima - Fort Wayne - Chicago;

> Cleveland - Buffalo - Hamilton - Toronto;

> Columbus - Toledo - Detroit;

> Columbus - Steubenville - Pittsburgh.

^gildone....  you can still access the Ohio Hub Plan through www.ohiohub.com .  The link takes you to the ORDC website...hit the link for "Passenger Rail" and you're there.

Here's Railway Age's take on the 3-C request...

 

 

http://www.rtands.com/breaking_news.shtml#Feature4-12-8

 

December 5, 2008

 

 

Cleveland-Cincinnati passenger rail service eyed

 

Passenger rail service from Cleveland to Cincinnati could be a reality by 2010 if the state gets $100 million in proposed infrastructure stimulus money, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports. The Ohio Rail Development Commission also intends to apply next year for federal matching grants from a passenger rail bill passed by Congress this fall.

 

"I'm cautiously ecstatic," said Stu Nicholson, spokesman for the commission, who envisions two trains making a round trip each day. "The money is the game changer. It changed the whole dynamic."

 

The commission, an independent agency within the Ohio Department of Transportation, has long advocated the 3-C Corridor between Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati. It also advocates the more ambitious and expensive Ohio Hub, a high-speed rail system on seven corridors in the state. Some $200 million is being sought to design and plan the high-speed network.

 

The state would pay Amtrak to operate the passenger service between Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati on rail owned by Norfolk Southern and CSX. The service would connect to other Amtrak routes through Cleveland and Cincinnati. Columbus has not had passenger rail service for 30 years, Nicholson said.

 

"The Amtrak planning staff told us that the corridor is probably the best underdeveloped passenger rail corridor in the U.S.," he said.

 

The $100 million would be used to purchase two trains, each of which would have a locomotive and three or four passenger cars. Each train, traveling at a maximum of 79 miles per hour, would run one round trip a day.

 

Ohioans support passenger rail and the freight companies that own the rails are on board, Nicholson said. But nothing could go forward without money - and until now none was available.

 

President-elect Barack Obama has proposed an economic stimulus package that would immediately make $25 billion available for infrastructure projects across the country. He also wants to spend $60 billion over 10 years to create a "National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank" to fund transportation projects. Obama and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi have said the stimulus package will be a top priority in 2009. Pelosi said she hopes to have a bill ready when Congress comes into session next year.

 

The service would probably not be self-sustaining and would require state subsidies, Nicholson said. The route will be determined after Amtrak and the commission complete a ridership study to choose train stops between the three cities. That will be under way in a few weeks.

 

The high-speed Ohio Hub plan includes more than 1,200 miles of track and 46 stations. The seven corridors would connect to planned or existing networks in neighboring states and southern Ontario. It would take eight to 10 years to build and cost $5 billion, Nicholson said.

 

Once the $1.9 billion under the passenger rail bill are appropriated by Congress next year, Ohio will apply for grants for high-speed rail and the corridor, he said.

 

The state would have to provide 20 percent.

Man, this looks like it's really going to happen ... and in my lifetime. I'm pumped.

Wouldn't these look nice on 3-C Corridor trains? As a heavier, double-deck car they ride pretty smoothly....

 

 

Those look like the "California Cars" used by Amtrak and CalTrans.  They're a very good design and are among the designs being looked at for use across the U.S.

I think they should be like the LIRR double decker cars.  Those are very nice.

Very similar design and also very nice.

Very similar design and also very nice.

 

Then bring it on baby!

Does anyone know where the station would be in Cincinnati?

^that's a tough one.  Queensgate Yard is so jammed up that it's going to be difficult to get more passenger trains into Cincinnati Union Terminal without investing $$$ to open up the bottleneck there.  Still, CUT may be used, or the train may initially have to terminate in Sharonville until the problems at CUT are dealt with.  A few years ago, Cincinnati was looking at a possible site downtown, but I don't know if that's still on the table or not.  That's going to take even more $$$. 

The Longworth Hall / Crossett (sp ?) site and CUT are both possibilities, as is Sharonville.  CUT would be the ideal (for future access across the Ohio River), but gildone is spot on about the congestion from freight traffic and the intermodal operations at Queensgate Yard.

I was also wondering where the station would be in Cleveland.  I dread the thought of utilizing the existing Amtrak station north of the Mall.  A combination with the E9th Street RTA station could create an interesting connection with local transport.

I really love the idea of the Amtrak station being rebuilt in conjunction with the new lakefront Convention Center. Then, this could be used for the Ohio Hub, too, no? Of course, this may or may not be wishful thinking, but who knows .. maybe it would give them additional incentive to build it?

A combo Amtrak ORDC Station/Rapid Station/Lorain Commuter Rail Station/Convention Center would be a the most logical construction for a multi modal hub.  How cool would that be.

A combo Amtrak ORDC Station/Rapid Station/Lorain Commuter Rail Station/Convention Center would be a the most logical construction for a multi modal hub. How cool would that be.

 

Very.

 

Also, what are the chances of Ohio Hub being connected to Tower City?

I don't think very good.  KJP created a diagram showing how it would have to work a while back I think.  Forest City screwed up the right of way into Tower City for the Courthouse, so the approach would have to be from the east into the station.  Getting into Tower City would be the most advantageous entry point, but I'm not sure how realistic it is.

Just in case you haven't already seen this.....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,17673.0.html

 

As for linking Ohio Hub train services to Tower City, there will be a review of possibly operating 3-C trains into Tower City. Not impossible, but it will carry a large price tag. Of course, you can do anything if you have a bottomless source of money (see Dubai).

 

Linking Ohio Hub trains to Tower City could happen via the Waterfront Line (RTA trains already make flag stops at the Amtrak platform) or possibly via a Red Line connection (perhaps a joint station in the vicinity of the airport). But there is a lot of freight train traffic in that area and not much room for additional tracks. Things could always be shuffled around, but again we're talking some important expense.

 

 

Another reason to look forward to riding trains...

 

Tuesday, December 30, 2008

Broadband on Rails

A compact lens could make high-speed Internet access commonplace on trains.

By Rachel Kremen

 

Internet access can make a train trip far more productive and enjoyable. But train-mounted satellite dishes that send and receive data can't be used on a lot of routes, as the standard hardware is too big to fit in some tunnels. Now researchers at the University of York, in England, have developed an alternative: a dome-shaped plastic lens that's less than half as high as a typical satellite dish. The system, which was developed with funding from the European Space Agency, is also designed to track multiple satellites at once, making it more reliable than a dish.

 

"Here in the U.K., a lot of our railway infrastructure is very old," says John Thornton, a research fellow in the Department of Electronics at the University of York, who led the lens research. Low bridges and tunnels offer minimal headroom for satellite dishes, which Thornton says are about 62 centimeters high. Thornton's lens, in contrast, is only 30 centimeters high--short enough to meet the needs of the train industry.

 

 

 

Copyright Technology Review 2008.

 

http://www.technologyreview.com/communications/21912/?nlid=1613&a=f

This letter was sent to a fellow UrbanOhioan. It's very supportive of 3-C which is a little surprising considering where it came from:

_________

 

January 9, 2009

 

Dear XXXX:

 

Thank you for contacting me regarding your support for the Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati rail corridor. We must develop a viable passenger rail transportation system connecting our major urban areas to enhance Ohio's economic viability.

 

The Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati corridor, is at the heart of a potentially vibrant passenger rail system in Ohio, a fact borne out by a number of studies dating back as far as the 1980s. Public demand is growing for transportation choices in Ohio. Significant anecdotal evidence around the United States suggests that even basic passenger rail service such as this would draw heavy ridership and increase the demand for more service.

 

Today, the reality of ever-higher gasoline prices and their impact on the everyday mobility of Ohioans and on our economy makes the restoration of rail passenger service in Ohio a critical transportation need.

 

I will continue to work with my Congressional colleagues and Governor Ted Strickland to help achieve the best possible intercity passenger rail service in the state.

 

Thank you again for contacting me. As a fellow Ohioan, I genuinely appreciate hearing from you. Please feel free to contact me again regarding this or any other issue that is of concern you.

 

Sincerely,

 

George V. Voinovich

United States Senator

Wow! Talk about finally getting on board the train! Is this the same Sen. Voinovich who voted against the Passenger Rail Investment & Improvement Act last fall?  Don't get me wrong.... glad to see him support the 3-C Corridor passenger rail start-up, but why the complete turnabout?

He may support choo-choos. But the devil is in the details. Mr. New Federalism probably wants the states to pay for trains...

Okay, he changed his position on rail. Now THANK him!!! :-D

It's probably because he finally saw just  how much people actually want it. 

And he isn't running for re-election.

http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/gov_strickland_has_3_c_rail_in_state_of_the_state_speech/

 

Jan 28, 2009: Gov. Strickland has 3-C rail in State of the State speech

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE — Jan 22, 2009

Contact:

Ken Prendergast

All Aboard Ohio Interim Executive Director

(216) 288-4883

[email protected]

 

All Aboard Ohio is grateful to Gov. Ted Strickland for his historic inclusion of Cleveland - Columbus - Dayton - Cincinnati (3-C) Corridor passenger rail development in his State of the State speech given earlier today. The following excerpt from Gov. Strickland’s speech got a standing ovation from those in attendance:

 

“We will strengthen Ohio with innovative transportation projects. We will work toward the restoration of passenger rail service between Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland. Our goal is to link Ohio’s three largest cities by passenger rail for the first time in 40 years. This will be a first step toward a rail system that links neighborhoods within a city, and cities within our state.”

 

The complete speech is at

http://www.governor.ohio.gov/GovernorsOffice/StateoftheState/StateoftheState2009/tabid/984/Default.aspx

 

“This is the first time in my memory that an Ohio governor has specifically included passenger rail development in a State of the State speech,” said All Aboard Ohio’s Interim Executive Director Ken Prendergast, who has been active in the association for 25 years. “Obviously, All Aboard Ohio is as pleased with the Governor’s statement as we were with his appointment last week of Jolene Molitoris as the new director of the Ohio Department of Transportation.”

 

The Ohio Rail Development Commission, a part of ODOT, has commissioned planning work by Amtrak for a “starter” passenger rail service in the state of Ohio. State law (specifically, the enabling legislation for ORDC) requires that the 3-C Corridor be the first intercity passenger rail service in the state of Ohio. Amtrak on Jan. 1 began its work on a nine-month implementation plan for starting 3-C passenger trains by the end of 2010.

 

“We will work to organize an already strong grassroots support for Gov. Strickland’s and Ms. Molitoris’s goals for the 3-C Corridor rail service as the first route in the statewide ‘Ohio Hub’ system,” Prendergast added. “That system will boost the economies in our existing communities in an energy efficient, environmentally sensitive way.”

 

ORDC and ODOT are asking for $100 million for the first phase of 3-C Corridor from the federal stimulus as well as $100 million for engineering and environmental impact studies necessary to make full build-out of the Ohio Hub System (see http://www.ohiohub.com) eligible for federal construction funding from the Passenger Rail Investment Act which Congress passed last fall.

 

All members and supporters of All Aboard Ohio are encouraged to contact their state and federal legislators today and ask them to support funding for passenger rail development in Ohio. To help you form your message, or to distribute to others, please download All Aboard Ohio’s 3-C Corridor presentation (1 mb):

 

http://members.cox.net/neotrans2/3-C%20Brochure.pdf

 

If you need information on how to contact your legislators, please visit:

 

Federal:

http://www.votesmart.org/official_congress.php

 

State:

Senate - http://www.votesmart.org/official_state_legislator.php?type=office&state_id=OH&criteria=upper

House - http://www.votesmart.org/official_state_legislator.php?type=office&state_id=OH&criteria=lower

3-C passenger rail could include Dayton-area stops

By Steve Bennish

 

Staff Writer

 

Wednesday, January 28, 2009

 

DAYTON — The cause of returning passenger rail service to Ohio got a big boost with Gov. Ted Strickland's endorsement during his State of the State address Wednesday, Jan. 28.

 

Initial service to Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland could include one stop in downtown Dayton and another near the Museum of the U.S. Air Force in Riverside, according to plans from the Ohio Rail Development Commission.

 

Besides that, there are hopes that idled industrial plants such as Moraine's GM facility could be redeveloped for rail car manufacture, said Ken Prendergast, interim director of the rail advocacy group "All Aboard Ohio."

 

...

 

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2009/01/28/ddn012809stricklandrailweb.html

They should put the Dayton station in the Transportation Center parking garage, not the old Union Station site.  I think they would need two sidings, and the grade elevation through downtown might be able to accomodate that.

 

 

You mean this? ;) This is from a City of Dayton graphic from 23 years ago...

 

That fancy drawing leaves a lot to the imagination of how that station would tie into the rest of the Transportation center's parking deck  It would definitely help the Oregon District by placing it there and the little independent movie place on the same block as that parking garage. 

 

Its nice to see they're getting the details taken care of in Dayton..  I'm not sure how important a stop would be at the air force base though..  The air force is usually pretty self sufficient in moving their people around.  However, I could see having a stop there for weekends only by the museum.

Perhaps these images will help a little. These sketches were made as part of a 1990 3-C Corridor report developed by JLS Enterprises, a consultant hired by the former ODOT-Rail Division....

 

 

 

The problem with these sketches, especially the second one, is that it assumes the elevated right of way is only two tracks wide. In fact, it is at least three tracks wide. If no third track is added, there may be enough space for a platform on each side of the right of way without the platforms and stairwell/elevator casings cantilevered from a decaying concrete structure that vibrates every time a heavy freight train rolls by.

 

Another option is to reduce the width of Sixth Street by about 20 feet and expand the width of the elevated right of way by 20 feet on the north and south sides for platforms/stairwells/elevators. That would preserve the ability for a third track to be added through this area.

The grade elevation through Dayton is four tracks wide, which is why I thought there would be enough room for platforms.

 

That fancy drawing leaves a lot to the imagination of how that station would tie into the rest of the Transportation center's parking deck

 

I'd think it would be easy to do.  Baggage, tickets, waiting in a climate-controlled space on the deck. Just build walls and lay in a heating and cooling system and plumbing for restrooms (the utilities would be the most difficutl part).  There would also have to be an elevator and stairs. 

 

The neat thing about that parking garage is that its so underused.  One could set aside part of the deck for car rental places, too.  I know people are are transit nuts, but the reality is that people using this train would be using it instead of flying, so are going to expect some of the same amenities one finds in an airport terminal, and that is ground transportation via car rentals.

 

 

 

 

They should put the Dayton station in the Transportation Center parking garage, not the old Union Station site.

 

Just curious - why shouldn't the old Union Station site be used?  It appears that some of the infrastructure is in place (sidings, elevated tracks, developable land for station, ingress/egress ability).  I'm not advocating one location over the other, but it just appears that the old Union Station location could be used and still provide access to the convention center and also help to revitalize a portion of the downtown area.

What about room to [gasp] expand?  If rail service takes off like most of us are hoping, does it make sense to set a limit of 2 platforms?  Or would operations easily be moved back to the original station's site?

 

Also, look to Washington, DC on how not to integrate a parking garage into your train station. 

 

 

Plus the Dayton Union Station site has pedestrian underpasses below the tracks to the old stairwells, since capped. My read from railroad track charts are that the underpasses are still there (ie: they haven't been filled in). The underpasses will probably need major renovations, and they could also be used to link station-area development on the north and south sides of the right of way.

This is an unfortunate article. I'm not sure why they interviewed ORDC's former executive director and not the current one. They also did not use any of my information they asked from me yesterday, including my informing them that state law REQUIRES the ORDC to pursue 3-C Corridor first. I guess they wrote what they wanted to write...

 

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090129/NEWS24/901290377/-1/NEWS

 

Article published Thursday, January, 2009

 

Push for passenger rail service sidesteps Toledo

Strickland plan would connect the 'Three C's'

By JIM PROVANCE

and DAVID PATCH

BLADE STAFF WRITERS

 

COLUMBUS - Gov. Ted Strickland's push in yesterday's State of the State address for restoration of passenger rail service connecting Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland had some lawmakers asking, "What about Toledo?"

 

"Our goal is to link Ohio's three largest cities by passenger rail for the first time in 40 years," Mr. Strickland said. "This will be a first step toward a rail system that links neighborhoods within a city and cities within our state."

 

....

 

Contact Jim Provance at:

[email protected]

or 614-221-0496.

I hope you're going to send a response.