In your next letter, try ending it by saying "my vote depends on your answer."

 

I would, but I am no longer registered in Richland (something that I am thinking about changing) and I am pretty sure that he is not up for re-election. However, if he ever decides to run for a higher position, I will let him know that my vote would depend on his stance on issues that I support/don't support.

In your next letter, try ending it by saying "my vote depends on your answer."

 

 

I like it.

 

So when are we designing and printing the "Want my vote?  Get me a train!" bumper stickers??

Rail group lobbies Jordan’s office

Heather Rutz

The Lima News

February 20, 2009 - 12:02PM

 

KENTON - High-speed rail has support from Gov. Ted Strickland, a new state transportation director and President Barack Obama. And it has more cash than ever before, including $8 billion for projects nationally in the federal stimulus package.

 

Read more at:

http://www.limaohio.com/news/rail_34395___article.html/jordan_study.html

Cross-posted from the Amtrak/passenger rail thread. Now Boehner can either say "See, I raised a ruckus and got funding for my district" or he can do what four of his GOP colleagues posing as governors say "I don't want it".....

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090222/ap_on_go_co/high_speed_spending

 

Vegas, Midwest seek the $8 billion for fast trains

By JIM ABRAMS – 2 hours ago, February 21, 2009

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Republicans attacking President Barack Obama's economic stimulus package point to a project they dub the "Sin Express" — a high speed rail link between Anaheim, Calif., site of Disneyland, and Las Vegas.

 

Not so fast.

 

In fact, competition for the $8 billion in mass transit construction is just beginning. Backers of numerous other planned high-speed rail corridors around the country are making their case for the money.

 

.......

 

 

 

On the Net:

California project: http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/

Rail Passenger Association of California and Nevada: http://www.railpac.org/home/

Midwest High Speed Rail Association: http://www.midwesthsr.org/

Look at that map. Connect Pittsburgh-Cleveland, Kansas City-Tulsa and Houston-San Antonio and all the regional networks are interconnected, except for the West Coast lines.

Further, connect Buffalo to Cleveland or NY to Philly to add the Empire route.

There's so much info out there on this, that I'm utterly confused. Can someone break it down on what projects are most likely to move forward? I saw the stimulus map with the high speed rail that looks like it connects cincy, columbus, cleveland and I think toledo. Is that different than the ohio high speed rail project? Is dayton included in this?

 

Then I read about strickland's plan to connect the 3c's. . .is this different than the stimulus money/plan? Is this high speed rail or not? Will stimulus money be used? Ugh. . .my head is spinning.. .I want to think maybe they are one in the same, but the map put out by the US Gov made it more confusing.

 

Help!?!?  :-)

C-Dawg,

 

There is no plan for Chicago-NYC high speed rail. This would remain a conventional speed route .....except when the Chicago-NYC trains travel over the improved tracks of a shared route. The Buffalo-Cleveland route was not a federally designated HSR corridor because no state department of transportation or compact of states has submitted the necessary documentation to have it declared as such. Same for Cleveland-Pittsburgh and other potential routes.

 

PrfctTimeOfDay,

 

The maps that have been shown here are not stimulus maps. They are maps of federally designated high-speed rail corridors (a program begun in the Clinton years but has plodded along with little federal funding in the eight years since). The high-speed designations are something of a misnomer however.

 

They are actually corridors which have characteristics that make them good candidates for potential high-speed rail development. Such development has always occurred in an evolutionary manner. The hitch is that while some have trains already traveling on them, some don't. For those route with passenger trains on them, the goal is to have more of them and to speed them up from 79 mph to 95 mph or 110 mph or higher.

 

For those routes like 3-C Corridor (yep, via Dayton) which don't have passenger trains on them yet, the goal is to get trains on them using the existing rights of way and top speeds of 79 mph by whatever funding sources. Since the stimulus funds offer 100 percent federal funding (ie: no state funding match is required), the governor certainly wants to tap the stimulus. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. But if we get stimulus funds to pay for it, we'll get it from another federal program which offers 80 percent federal funding. And once the trains are up and running, then we start to plan for and seek funding for more of them and to speed them up.

 

Better? If not, keep asking questions. There's no such thing as a dumb question except for the one you don't ask.

I'm curious who would run the 3C system? Would it be Amtrak, some sort of state level department, a state-supported public corporation, or a contracted private company? Perhaps FirstTransit or Virgin would be interested in operating it. I'd rather it not be a state department - it's gets too political and becomes a good place to stick political appointees that may or may not have any interest in a well run rail system. Honestly, if we are going to have a state rail corporation, I'd almost prefer a mix of appointed and elected members from districts.

 

I'd imagine that I'd use the Cbus to Cincy portion at least a couple times a month right off the bat.

C-Dawg, I think the better route is Detroit > Toledo > Columbus > Dayton > Cincinnati, especially since an interstate highway connection between Toledo and Columbus doesn't exist.  But I doubt Toledo alone could generate enough ridership without trains originating in Detroit.   

I'm curious who would run the 3C system? Would it be Amtrak, some sort of state level department, a state-supported public corporation, or a contracted private company? Perhaps FirstTransit or Virgin would be interested in operating it. I'd rather it not be a state department - it's gets too political and becomes a good place to stick political appointees that may or may not have any interest in a well run rail system.

 

The 3-C start-up would be operated by Amtrak under contract with the State of Ohio, but the state would own the equipment. It's conceivable that another operator could be chosen for the Ohio Hub, but since the freight railroads (which own the corridors) only recognize Amtrak as the only legal and liability-protected oeprator, they likely won't allow Virgin or any other operator.

Thanks KJP and noozer. . .it makes much more sense to me now. One last question: Can High Speed Trains run on the same track as Passeneger Trains? Or does that entail a completely different type of rail/track. . .Thanks!

High speed passenger trains can run in the same rail corridors, but would likely have to have separate tracks in order not to conflict with freight trains.  Anything above 125 MPH would also require elimination of grade crossings, which means roadways would have to be grade separated by overpasses or underpasses.

Also, keep in mind that two-thirds of the French TGV system actually uses older rights of way in mixed traffic with conventional trains, commuter trains and freight trains, but speeds above 100 mph are common. And in the larger cities, historic stations are used by the TGV trains. Only one-third uses those brand-new, passenger-only rights of way where the TGV trains zip along at 170 mph and higher.

And Finan was interviewed, why?

 

Finan said he had studied a similar proposal and concluded it would be cheaper to give every Ohioan an airline ticket for the same route.

 

 

Yeah, right. As if people in Cincinnati who are tired of driving will drive to Kentucky and use a state-subsidized ticket to the fly out of the most-expensive airport in the country to go to Columbus.

And Finan was interviewed, why?

 

... because it's the Enquirer and the Enquirer is a bunch of negative f**k-ups.

 

Finan said he had studied a similar proposal and concluded it would be cheaper to give every Ohioan an airline ticket for the same route.

 

 

Yeah, right. As if people in Cincinnati who are tired of driving will drive to Kentucky and use a state-subsidized ticket to the fly out of the most-expensive airport in the country to go to Columbus.

 

In CVG's defense, they lowered their cost by as much as 60% recently.

^ It's a wlwt article but I concur with the comment, they are not the most supportive news station.

I hope that Cincinnati-area UOers can refute Finan's ignorance with numerous e-mail corrections/complaints to WLWT.com.

I've already corrected WLWT on their inaccurate video used for streetcar coverage (they show the vintage streetcar system used in Tampa - not the modern streetcar system footage from Portland that was provided to them by the City).

 

By the way, here is a response I got back from Denise Driehaus' office in regards to the 3-C Corridor...

 

Randy,

 

I have received your email regarding the 3-C project and have passed the information along to Rep. Driehaus.  Rep. Driehaus very much supports the project and will do her best to advocate on its behalf.  If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact Rep. Driehaus at the number listed in my signature line.

 

 

Thanks Again,

 

Emma Woodward

Legislative Aide

State Representative Denise Driehaus

Ohio House of Representatives - 31st District

77 South High Street, 13th floor

P: (614) 466-5786

F: (614) 719-3585

[email protected]

Thanks. I need to start keeping a running tally.

^ It's a wlwt article but I concur with the comment, they are not the most supportive news station.

 

Good catch. lol ... yeah, wlwt is too.

 

Finan said he had studied a similar proposal and concluded it would be cheaper to give every Ohioan an airline ticket for the same route.

 

 

Yeah, right. As if people in Cincinnati who are tired of driving will drive to Kentucky and use a state-subsidized ticket to the fly out of the most-expensive airport in the country to go to Columbus.

 

Let's see. It costs hundreds of dolars to fly between any two points on this route. And then what about places like Galion? Is he proposing to have direct flights from, say, galion to Delaware or Columbus?? Hmmm...didn't think so.

 

Just more drivel from a worn-out conservative legislator. Hmmph.

Why would anyone waste time taking commercial air between Ohio cities, esp. in a TSA world? Now general aviation is a whole different ballgame.

It is clear from Finan's statements that despite his supposed "study" of the subject, he has given the issue no thought at all.  All of which makes me glad he is a "former" Ohio Senate leader. 

Why would anyone waste time taking commercial air between Ohio cities, esp. in a TSA world? Now general aviation is a whole different ballgame.

 

Especially when you check out the fares (try it, it's quite shocking). I'll give you hint: flying between Ohio cities is five times more expensive than taking the train (based on Amtrak fares on the Lake Shore and Capitol limiteds through Cleveland and Toledo). It's probably why few people fly between Cleveland and Cincinnati -- Ohio's busiest intra-state flight market with just 14,000 to 26,000 enplanements per year since 2000. The next busiest is Cleveland-Dayton, with 1,800 to 3,300 enplanements per year.

 

I'm sure these flights are real money-makers for the airlines....

But this discussion points out how easy it is for idealogues like Finan and others (former Cong. Chabot for instance) to toss off glib, dismissive bits of misinformation that are assumed (by the media) to be fact because Finan is a "former State Senate leader".

 

Even though his quote was carried by a TV station, I would like to see someone from SW Ohio answer his drivel in the Cincy Enquirer.  Call him out.

But this discussion points out how easy it is for idealogues like Finan and others (former Cong. Chabot for instance) to toss off glib, dismissive bits of misinformation that are assumed (by the media) to be fact because Finan is a "former State Senate leader".

 

Even though his quote was carried by a TV station, I would like to see someone from SW Ohio answer his drivel in the Cincy Enquirer.  Call him out.

 

I'll put it on my list of things to do.  I haven't submitted a guest editorial in some time, so this might be a good one to come back on.  I'll be sure to share with everyone what I submit and when.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Way to go Rando!  We'll look forward to it.

A very good story on high speed rail from NPR's "Morning Edition":

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101073906

A story on High Speed rail from a Philadelphia newspaper.  Note the reference to Cong. Boehner (OH):

 

Posted on Mon, Feb. 23, 2009

Winging It: Stimulus raises hopes for high-speed trains

By Tom Belden

 

Occasionally, a wise journalism professor once told me, being a reporter is almost like not working because of the fun you can have. If you've covered transportation for decades, the best of those "are they really paying me to do this?" days have come aboard trains going almost 200 miles per hour.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Find this article at:

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20090223_Winging_It__Stimulus_raises_hopes_for_high-speed_trains.html 

 

FYI...

 

Senate Concurrent Resolution 5 has been introduced in the Ohio Senate to

urge the President and Congress of the United States to provide funds for

the Ohio Hub rail corridor development:

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/res.cfm?ID=128_SCR_5

 

It is co-sponsored by 4 D's and 1 R:

 

Senator Shirley Smith, D-Cleveland

Senator Sue Morano, D-Lorain

Senator Capri Cafaro, D-Youngstown

Senator Tom Robers, D-Dayton

Senator Jimmy Stewart, R-Athens

 

There are 33 State Senators in the Ohio Senate in Columbus. To contact your

state senator, see:

http://www.senate.state.oh.us/senators/

The City of Cincinnati has requested $10 million of stimulus money for an "Intercity Passenger Rail Station."  The use of funds would be either for renovation and reorganization of Union Terminal so that it would be able to handle the additional load, and the other alternative is a new station altogether.

 

Here's the request:

http://zanesvilletimesrecorder.com/article/99999999/DATABASES/90224005?appSession=335151650054951&RecordID=7908&PageID=3&PrevPageID=2&cpipage=5&CPIsortType=desc&CPIorderBy=Organization

I keep reading this line could be up & running by 2010, as in next year.  Is that even realistic?  And if not, shouldn't those who keep writing/saying it be corrected?  I'd like to be optimistic, but...

I know they've been talking about terminating in the Longworth Hall parking lot, but I think having the 3C trains terminate at the transit center would be better than either that or Union Terminal.  The riverfront location will allow covered overnight parking and direct transfers to the proposed streetcar and Oasis light rail.  Union Terminal would require a longer walk from and to parked cars or a cab ride downtown.  Nobody's going to ride the #1 bus and ridership would be far to low to necessitate a streetcar extension. 

I know they've been talking about terminating in the Longworth Hall parking lot, but I think having the 3C trains terminate at the transit center would be better than either that or Union Terminal.  The riverfront location will allow covered overnight parking and direct transfers to the proposed streetcar and Oasis light rail.  Union Terminal would require a longer walk from and to parked cars or a cab ride downtown.  Nobody's going to ride the #1 bus and ridership would be far to low to necessitate a streetcar extension.

 

I couldn't agree with you more.  The Riverfront Transit Center makes perfect sense for this stop.

seriously, if you build a transit center, it should be a center for your transit.

The transit center is limited to two tracks served by side platforms in its current setup.  But it's 60ft. wide between pillars so it could definitely be modified for four tracks with two side platforms and a large center platform.  If the track level can be lowered about five feet  below the current level of the roadway then a mezzanine could be built, otherwise a center platform would be accessed either from pedestrian islands in the middle of 2nd St. or via underpasses from the side platforms.  This option might not be feasible depending on what utilities lurk beneath this spot. 

I've been reading Track Twenty-Nine, and Matt claims (and I believe him) Amtrak has a policy against backing up trains that have passengers on board.  Anyone care to comment on how the transit center or any location for that matter would deal with that? 

 

from Envisioning a New Rail Hub for Atlanta: Part II

The reason that Amtrak will not use the CSX/NS trunk on the west side of downtown is because they have a policy against backing trains with passengers aboard. This rule has sealed the fate of many urban stations. To be clear, this does not refer to the orientation of passengers within the train, it refers to the position of the locomotive. If trains approached from the north and then left the city to the north along the trunk, trains would have to back out of the terminal around a wye (a 3-point turn, essentially) and then proceed. Since this movement would not have a locomotive at the forward end of the motion, Amtrak won't do it.

Great news about Cincinnati seeking $10 million for a station!

 

As for Matt at Track Twenty-Nine, he needs to go to Chicago where Amtrak backs up all arriving long distance trains into Union Station so that passengers don't have to walk so far, so they don't have to walk by crews unloading baggage cars which are normally at the front of trains, and so they don't have to walk by extremely loud idling locomotives in a confined, subterranean space.

I don't usually post on here but the 3-C was mentioned in passing on Olbermann last night when he was talking to Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman about the stimulus. Basically he just mentioned that the 3-c was going through Boehner's district.

Nice to be noticed.  Just wish Cong. Boehner could see what passenger rail can do for Ohio.

I don't believe it would be feasible to lower the busway in the transit center much since there is a major CWW transmission main a few feet below the pavement that ties the CWW treatment plant to the new water main under the Ohio River serving Boone County.

 

Seems like a great station site but also seems to me that it would be very conjested with intercity rail, light rail, streetcars and charter buses etc operating at the same time.

^^I saw this last night.  I like Krugman, and he was dead on.  (actually, it was Olbermann who noted the Boehner/Amtrak proposed route hypocrisy, not Krugman).  It's great a respected Nobel economist like Krugman can push back against the wacko Right's belittling of passenger rail's job-creating, city-building, econ-boosting infrastructure bennies... He even endorsed the idea of Maglev, noting how other nation's are moving ahead of the USA on this futuristic technology... Seems some on the far right would be more comfortable with a horse & buggy America.

In Cleveland, where will the terminal be--Terminal Tower, Amtrak Station, a new location?

Amtrak station (or vicinity). The existing station is inadequate. See:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,17673.0.html

 

ALSO, EVERYONE PLEASE VISIT (AND JOIN):

 

http://ohiopassengerrail.ning.com

you would think the reporter could at least get a certain someone we all know's name right...

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2009/02/ohio_house_republicans_want_to.html

 

Ohio House Republicans want to delay action on 3C Corridor rail plan

Posted by Aaron Marshall/Plain Dealer Reporter February 27, 2009 05:00AM

Categories: Real Time News

 

COLUMBUS -- House Republicans want to put the brakes on Gov. Ted Strickland's plan to pump $250 million into starting up passenger rail service connecting Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati.

 

They want the state to wait until a study by Amtrak has been completed in August before moving a muscle on the "3C Corridor" project that Strickland has proposed in his transportation budget.

 

But the Republicans lack the votes to slow down the project. House Democrats and rail advocates worry that if the state doesn't move forward, Ohio could miss out on federal dollars for the conventional-speed rail plan.

 

Rep. Ross McGregor, a Springfield Republican who is the ranking GOP member on transportation issues in the state budget, said his caucus members want to see what the Amtrak study shows about the number of potential riders. They are also spooked by a comment from new Ohio Department of Transportation chief Jolene Molitoris, who told lawmakers that the new train passenger line would require an ongoing state subsidy.

 

.....

Alan Prendergast? I think I owe someone an e-mail....

Alan Prendergast? I think I owe someone an e-mail....

 

thats your brother right?? :wink: