I understand why those along the Oasis line might be a little NIMBY but it's not like you can' build successful developments along a heavily used mainline. San Diego does it. The Oasis line wouldn't have nearly the traffic.

San Diego BNSF mainline

I think the noise concerns along the Oasis line are overblown, especially given that the line already sees freight traffic. With upgraded tracks, any passenger trains will make far less noise than the freight trains currently using the line.

http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/cincinnati_anti_rail_ballot_issue_is_sad_and_unthoughtful/

 

Cincinnati anti-rail ballot issue is "sad" and "disappointing"

Two talented board members are added in other board action

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE — Aug. 10, 2009

Contact:  Ken Prendergast

All Aboard Ohio Executive Director

(216) 288-4883

[email protected]

 

At its regular meeting Aug. 8, All Aboard Ohio's Board of Directors unanimously passed a resolution that put the nonprofit educational organization on record of opposing an as-yet un-numbered City Charter amendment to appear on the Nov. 3, 2009 ballot in the City of Cincinnati. The ballot issue, if passed, would require all expenditures by the City of Cincinnati for the construction or improvement of rail passenger service to be first subject to a public vote.

 

In its resolution, the association noted the high cost of owning a car, the large number of households in Cincinnati which do not have any cars, the inaccessibility of available jobs that are mostly in the suburbs, the region's high ozone pollution due primarily from an overdependence on cars and trucks, the impacts of mobile-source pollution on scaring away manufacturing jobs, and the superior ability of all types of passenger rail (streetcar, light-rail, commuter rail, and intercity rail) to address these issues. Specifically, the board resolved that:

 

"The board opposes the proposed City Charter amendment as it is punitive and discriminatory against a city-building mode of transport like passenger rail service while other modes of travel that siphoned jobs, residents and wealth from the city will continue to be funded by taxpayers in the City of Cincinnati."

 

All Aboard Ohio President Bill Hutchison said these facts should be noted by the Southwestern Ohio Green Party and the Cincinnati chapter of the NAACP which circulated petitions to place the City Charter amendment on the ballot.

 

"This is very sad to see this happening," Hutchison said. "They're really not thinking this through. Passenger rail has a strong record of bringing economic vitality and environmental quality to urban centers throughout the world. For groups who claim to want these characteristics for Cincinnati yet seek an anti-rail charter amendment is very disappointing."

 

The All Aboard Ohio board said passage of the charter amendment will create a barrier to investing in rail passenger and rail transit services that have brought billions of dollars in new investment, created jobs and enhanced livability in over three dozen cities and metropolitan areas across the United States in the past three decades.

 

The Board of Directors of All Aboard Ohio believes that "if the proposed amendment is approved at a time when federal and state of Ohio transportation policies and Amtrak are committed to improving and expanding the nation's intercity rail passenger network Cincinnati may be reducing its opportunity for growth of rail service and placing the present limited Amtrak service to the city at risk."

 

A copy of the resolution is available HERE:

http://members.cox.net/ohiohsr/Resolution%20-%20Cincinnati%20anti-rail.pdf

 

In other action, the Board of Directors of All Aboard Ohio voted unanimously to appoint two new board members: Judi Craig, vice president and area manager of Parsons Brinckerhoff in Cincinnati; and Ronald Sheck Ph.D., a retired transportation planner and public policy researcher living in Toledo.

 

Craig manages the Cincinnati-area operations of PB, a international engineering, planning, program and construction management organization. She is currently serving as Project Manager for the Ohio Rail Development Commission's Cleveland - Columbus - Cincinnati (3-C) Corridor "Quick Start" Environmental Assessment. Previously she served for 15 years with the Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments (OKI), most recently as director of corridor studies where she oversaw the I-71 Light Rail Corridor study and the I-75 North South Transportation Initiative. She also established the Regional Ozone Coalition.

 

Among his many experiences, Sheck was urban rail program manager for the Washington State Department of Transportation, president of Transit Solutions in Seattle and in Tampa, Florida, research program director at the Center for Urban Transportation Research at the University of South Florida, director of Transportation Programs at the New Mexico State Highway and Transportation Department, and an associate professor of Geography at the Ohio State University as well at New Mexico State University.

 

"These are both extremely talented and experienced people to have on our board," Hutchison said. "I am thankful they have offered their skills and experiences to us, and I look forward to their contributions to All Aboard Ohio."

 

END

Railroads made a good chunk of revenue from carrying the U.S. mail....and that revenue helped support passenger rail up through the 1960's.  But, I am told that when the railroads lost the mail contract to the airlines, that just about broke the back of pasenger rail service.

 

Interesting article that makes me wonder if we ought to be looking at mail & express as a revenue producer for today's planned passenger rail corridors?  Read on....they did it very well back in the day.

 

August 10, 2009

 

Carlson: Quick thinking was secret to speedy rail mail

 

By JOHN CARLSON

[email protected]

 

You might think overnight, next-day mail service started with giant cargo jets and companies like UPS and Federal Express.

 

Cortie Rolison and Don Bliss would be happy to tell you it's been around for a very long time.

 

"You'd mail a letter in Chicago in the afternoon, and it would be delivered in Denver the next day," said Bliss, 76, of Burlington. "It cost 4 cents."

 

 

Read more at:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090810/NEWS03/908100314/1001/NEWS

Amtrak tried to revive package express but screwed it up because they tried to run it. The freight railroads do a much better job with package express because they don't run it -- it's marketed by third party freight forwarders who also do all the pick ups, drops, handling, moving trailers, containers, etc. etc. Amtrak tried to do all of that themselves and fell flat on their face. It could have been a gold mine, and still could be.

"That's what we did. Better than it was done before or since."

 

The same is true with parcels and the Railway Express Agency.  The customer service at FedEx, UPS, etc can't touch the now long departed REA.  Read:  Ten Turtles to Tucumcari: A Personal History of the Railway Express Agency by Klink Garret  and Train Time: Railroads and the Imminent Reshaping of the United States Landscape by Joseph Stigloe. 

I've seen exhibits on RPO cars and how that was done, including interviews.  I think I saw them in the railroad musuem in Sacramento and in Chicago, maybe.  Im old enough to remember the REA and their red, white, and green logo or color scheme.  BTW, some pf the interubrans in the midwest did overnight, JIT delivery on freight.

I love the ending quote:

 

"It's too bad they stopped it," said Rolison. "They had something good going there, and it really worked. Overnight service was common. Somebody mailed a letter from Fairfield not long ago to me (in Ottumwa). It took five days. You tell me which is better."

 

BTW: I used to live in Ottumwa and Fairfield is barely 20 miles due East....along the main line of the BNSF, which (yes) hosts Amtrak's "California Zephyr".-+

The Green Party is supporting the ballot initiative?!

Given that the Southwest Ohio Green Party website is hosted by Geocities, hasn't been updated in almost two years, and has various links to support prominent member Justin Jeffre (former boy band member) for Cincinnati City Council, I think the legitimacy of the organization should really be evaluated.

Haha. Regardless, I can't imagine that creating mechanisms that could potentially hamper development of public transit accessibility would please the national party too much. I wonder what the rationale is ... surely there has to be something to justify dedicating what appears to be very limited resources to this; otherwise, they could just keep quiet on it (if not support it, which seems to make the most sense for a Green affiliate).

I think the Greens oppose the streetcar because A) the streetcars aren't made of and powered by hemp, and B) in many smaller locales the Green Party is often financed by right-wing groups like COAST in order to siphon votes that might otherwise go to mainstream Democrats. Take the king's shilling, etc.

Mail carrying trains still could be a success. I'm convinced of that. This would not be a return to the old RPO, tho. Rather, I think any rail mail should focus on overnight, premium mail (think USPS express mail, with a guaranteed delivery time and date). The other market could be parcel business with a 2-3 day delivery time (think USPS Priority mail).

 

Trains could carry roll-on/roll-off (ro-ro) containers, which could carried end point to endpoint and also picked up and dropped en route.

 

As pointed out in previous messages, the service could be developed by a third party, with Amtrak simply forwarding the containers (think Railway Express Agency). Amtrak's mistake was to try to get into something it knew little of.

 

If I were running Amtrak, I'd start with a test corridor and one long distance route to work the bugs out of the idea before going systemwide. Chicago-St. Louis and Chicago-New York are two possibilities, tho schedules on the latter would have to be changed.

 

 

Whether mail or parcels, I agree with the guy in the article-- it's not being done as well since.  You can't get overnight mail between New York and Chicago anymore, for example, for the price of a first class stamp.  And, back in the day, many people didn't carry any more than an overnight bag with them when they went on a trip.  A few days or so ahead of time, they would call the REA for a pick-up or drop by the local depot, ship their luggage and find it waiting in their hotel room, cottage, aunt's house, etc when they arrived at their destination.  If you had a row boat or canoe and were going to vacation at a cottage on a lake somewhere, they could ship that too, if you wanted. 

 

My wife and I tried to ship a backpack carrier via UPS (for hiking with our son) to Flagstaff, AZ a couple of years ago.  The place where we stayed (time share condo) wasn't too keen on having the box sitting around their office, even for just a day or part of a day.  They somewhat reluctantly allowed us to do it, though. 

 

It's hard to believe that this kind of thing was once routine.

Whatever one thinks of the peak oil argument, clearly the airline system is in decline and beginning to think about alternatives for mail and other transit should probably be starting sooner than later.

These factoids will be distributed every other Wednesday....

 

“Get On Track” facts about the

3-C Corridor

Part One – Ohio’s Worsening Mobility Crisis

 

Ohio faces a serious and worsening mobility crisis in which a large and growing number of Ohioans are either too old or too poor to effectively provide for their own transportation to work, school, medical care, shopping, tourism and to visit friends and family. In the absence of transportation choices, this restrains Ohio’s economy, causes poverty/isolation and hurts Ohio’s quality of life.

 

To read the facts of this worsening crisis, click this link:

 

http://members.cox.net/ohiohsr/3-C%20track%20facts-1%20Mobility%20Crisis.pdf

 

 

All Aboard Ohio!

309 South 4th St., Suite 304

Columbus, OH 43215

(614) 228-6005

(216) 288-4883

www.allaboardohio.org

Whether mail or parcels, I agree with the guy in the article-- it's not being done as well since. You can't get overnight mail between New York and Chicago anymore, for example, for the price of a first class stamp. And, back in the day, many people didn't carry any more than an overnight bag with them when they went on a trip. A few days or so ahead of time, they would call the REA for a pick-up or drop by the local depot, ship their luggage and find it waiting in their hotel room, cottage, aunt's house, etc when they arrived at their destination. If you had a row boat or canoe and were going to vacation at a cottage on a lake somewhere, they could ship that too, if you wanted.

 

My wife and I tried to ship a backpack carrier via UPS (for hiking with our son) to Flagstaff, AZ a couple of years ago. The place where we stayed (time share condo) wasn't too keen on having the box sitting around their office, even for just a day or part of a day. They somewhat reluctantly allowed us to do it, though.

 

It's hard to believe that this kind of thing was once routine.

 

I knew a guy who used to work RPO's on the New York Central, running from Chicago to New York. He said they'd run with four locomotives (E-8's) and about 20 cars. They'd leave Chicago some time after the departure of the 20th Century Limited and be on that train's tail by the time they got to Toledo. He also said they passed the Nickel Plate passenger train east of Cleveland "like it was standing still." Back then you could deposit a four cent letter in a special slot for the 20th Century Limited at LaSalle St. Station in Chicago and have it delivered the next day in New York. Now the same thing costs $17.50 via USPS. This is progress?

 

It's interesting to note that mail was the railroads hidden subsidy for their passenger trains to the tune of $720 million a year (I believe). In 1967, the mail was pulled off and put on planes and trucks by the Postal Service, which was being run by a former airline exec.

 

Apparently, the railroads didn't see this coming, since just previous to this the Postal Service was prodding the railroads to buy more mail cars. Thus the MoPac and Santa Fe ended up with fleets of new cars which were idled shortly after they were acquired.

 

Again, if I had my way....

 

  The Post Office still uses the railroads but not like they used to. The steam railroads, interurbans, and even some city streetcars used to get Post Office contracts that effectively helped subsidize passenger rail.

 

    Today, besides the airlines, the Post Office has a lot of its work carried out by private contractors, much of it on trucks. The work is competitively bid. As an example, the Post Office may let out a contract for carrying 20,000 pounds of mail daily from Cincinnati to Middletown, and some owner-operator will get just that contract.

 

    In Cincinnati there was a whole building dedicated to handling mail built as part of the Union Terminal complex. It was located right next to the Dalton Street Post Office and connected to the Union Terminal passenger station by a covered truckway.

 

 

Amtrak delays study on Ohio passenger train

By MATT LEINGANG, The Associated Press

Updated 12:41 PM Friday, August 14, 2009

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio — An Amtrak study on restoring passenger train service among Ohio's major cities will be delayed two weeks until mid-September, giving the state a tighter deadline to apply for money from President Barack Obama's stimulus package.

 

Amtrak is juggling new requests and congressional mandates to evaluate service in other states, pushing back its study of trains connecting Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati, agency spokesman Marc Magliari said.

 

The study's conclusions on ridership, revenue projects and station locations — originally expected at the end of August — figure to play a key part in Ohio's application. State officials working on the project downplayed the delay.

 

Other studies demanding Amtrak's time include establishing passenger service in Montana between Billings and Missoula and potentially reopening a line that once ran from St. Paul, Minn., through Montana and onto Seattle, Magliarisaid.

 

Read more at:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/ohio-news/amtrak-delays-study-on-ohio-passenger-train-249249.html

 

"Ohio faces a serious and worsening mobility crisis in which a large and growing number of Ohioans are either too old or too poor to effectively provide for their own transportation to work, school, medical care, shopping, tourism and to visit friends and family. In the absence of transportation choices, this restrains Ohio’s economy, causes poverty/isolation and hurts Ohio’s quality of life."

 

This quote really bothers me.  It's no wonder many people are against putting money into passenger rail if it's supposed to help only poor and old people.  Why isn't it put in the context of adding transit options for young people who have learned the advantages of rail transport from visits to Europe and Asia, ontop of the advantages for people in other stratas of income? 

Instead it's being thrown into the bin of social welfare?  What a terrible idea.

 

"Ohio faces a serious and worsening mobility crisis in which a large and growing number of Ohioans are either too old or too poor to effectively provide for their own transportation to work, school, medical care, shopping, tourism and to visit friends and family. In the absence of transportation choices, this restrains Ohio’s economy, causes poverty/isolation and hurts Ohio’s quality of life."

 

This quote really bothers me. It's no wonder many people are against putting money into passenger rail if it's supposed to help only poor and old people. Why isn't it put in the context of adding transit options for young people who have learned the advantages of rail transport from visits to Europe and Asia, ontop of the advantages for people in other stratas of income?

Instead it's being thrown into the bin of social welfare? What a terrible idea.

 

 

I agree...I am bothered by the premise that Ohio will only benefit from rail so much because it is becomeing older and poorer.  This would seem to indicate that if we were able to reverse Brain Drain and keep more young educated people around, then we wouldn't have a need for rail.

 

KJP, you make so many other great arguments for rail.  Please don't make this one of All Aboard Ohio's talking points.

You're both forgetting some very important reasons behind the data I cited:

+ Older people vote more than middle-aged or young adults;

+ Skeptical state legislators say "3-C trains are a solution in search of problem" -- the data I cited strongly says otherwise;

+ There is a serious economic issue at stake for Ohio if we don't address this mobility crisis ASAP;

+ You and I may never be poor someday (although, on average, we're not as well-off as our parents were), but we will all be old and physically unable to drive as much or as far as we did when we were younger. The data I cited ultimately applies to every single one of us.

 

And, if you'll note, this fact sheet says "PART ONE." It is the first of many factoids yet to come, and certainly one of the most acute problems along with energy supply issues. Those are pressing problems for which there is an abundance of data. While there is hard data to show that young people are leaving Ohio, there is scant data to say they are leaving because we lack quality passenger rail and public transit. I can cite some of Richard Florida's surveys and his thoughts on the subject, but much of what I can say on the subject is unfortunately anecdotal.

 

I will issue different fact sheets every other Wednesday. Trust me -- I have plenty of material to keep me busy until at least the end of the year.

KJP, I have no doubt of the info's relation to all people eventually (personally I'd rather live out my younger years zipping across Ohio and the nation by rail), but I disagree that the first point of arguement should be so inherently negative, and hitching the idea to providing options for low income residents.  In itself, I'm not sure how relavent job access is to lower income people to the 3C rail proposal, new innercity travel options perhaps, but not so much intercity.  I don't see many janitors living in Columbus and commuting to Cleveland.

We may just have to agree to disagree though.  Keep up the good fight.

Sorry KJP, but I hate the term factoid...  We all know what a fact is, but -oid is a Greek suffix that means "like" or "form."  So a factoid is "like a fact," or "form of a fact."  It falls short. 

 

We can do better is all I'm saying. 

 

 

KJP, I have no doubt of the info's relation to all people eventually (personally I'd rather live out my younger years zipping across Ohio and the nation by rail), but I disagree that the first point of arguement should be so inherently negative, and hitching the idea to providing options for low income residents. In itself, I'm not sure how relavent job access is to lower income people to the 3C rail proposal, new innercity travel options perhaps, but not so much intercity. I don't see many janitors living in Columbus and commuting to Cleveland.

We may just have to agree to disagree though. Keep up the good fight.

 

Why is it negative to provide mobility for the people who need it most? And janitors? Wow, there's a really bad stereotype.

 

What about single parents getting their kids to college? Sure, we can put them on the Greyound, but not with their bicycle. Sometimes we can't even put them on the bus at all. Greyound frequently oversells their 3-C buses two and three times over and sometimes can't work out a deal in time with a charter bus operator to accommodate the extra passengers. Thus they get left at the station. Greyhound refuses to add more buses in the 3-C Corridor despite the overwhelming demand but they're not interested in travel markets that require buses to travel distances of less than 300 to 500 miles. If they can serve 3-C Corridor with a bus bound for Miami or New Orleans or Dallas, THEN they'll do it.

 

Or a low-income person getting to a state office in Columbus for training for a career? Or MR/DD board members having to attend certification seminars in Columbus? Many county MR/DD boards send 15-30 of their members to Columbus each MONTH and reimburse them at the IRS rate (55 cents per mile). A small county (200,000 population or so) could save $50,000 per year just on MR/DD costs alone if there was a train.

 

Or elderly persons downstate needing specialized medical care at the Cleveland Clinic, which in the absence of a train (which is big enough to transport someone with a dialysis machine) requires an ambulance to take four trips -- making two of them empty? The train as part of health care reform? You bet!

 

Or someone with diabetes, epilepsy or hypoglycemia who is restricted from driving wants to visit family, see friends or do some genealogy research at the Ohio Historical Society. I'm sure most of us have friends or family who cannot drive, or at least are restricted in their mobility. My father cannot drive due to diabetes (now he's in the hospital for kidney failure so driving is the least of his worries), nor can my best friend's wife who also has diabetes and is going blind. My association's Elyria regional coordinator has been blind for decades. My grant-writer's wife has epilepsy and is restricted from driving. Those are just off the top of my head.

 

This isn't being negative. This is about improving Ohioans' quality of life. I hope you're not one of those who is in denial about getting older. It will happen to you, your family and friends sooner than you think and will affect you and your loved ones in ways you cannot possibly imagine -- yet. That's life.

 

CincyInDC, you can do better too. Get a better hobby-ism with your factoids or you'll end up alone-icized for the rest of your life-ist.

Don't get defensive, I'm trying to have a conversation. 

I agree with all your points above, however, this is something that is trying to be sold to a general public that is fed up with subsidizing everything from healthcare to food stamps.  The way you're stating it is that it's adding to that burden.  I'm as excited about the prospects of 3C as you are, but that excitement has nothing to do with my grandma getting to the hospital for treatment.  It stems from the access to their state and region that everybody will enjoy, more people becoming involved in the dialogue of cities being important parts of what makes society work.

I just think that starting off with the points that relate to business and tourism development would be something people could get behind because of it's ability to create wealth and improve the economies of any given city.

I am defensive of people who need defending.

What is the connection between single parents and getting a child to college with a bike, that a 2 parent family wouldn't experience?

 

Anyway, most kids would require their own private train car to get all their stuff to college these days.

The Green Party is supporting the ballot initiative?!

 

The Green Party is mainly against it because they really don't have many candidates locally and one of their most well-known candidates, former 98 Degrees member Justin Jefree, is opposed to it because it uses electricity.

 

On the other hand, the much more active and respected local Sierra Club has voiced their support for the project.  As bfwissel suggested, one is a bit more legitimate than the other.

Man, what is going on down there in Cincy?

In a nutshell there is a changing of the guard in Cincinnati politics and leadership.  The Cincinnati Streetcar effort is being pushed primarily by young people who are incredibly engaged.  What is happening is a classic political fight where the old-school leadership and power structure is doing anything and everything in its power to maintain control.  If the Cincinnati Streetcar happens and its success is realized then it's game, set and match.  It would then be time to welcome a new political structure to Cincinnati that is young and progressive.

 

Streetcars are also seen as being a first-step transit system, because once people get familiar with them and learn how modern rail transit works then there is no looking back...that means hello light rail and expanded streetcar service.  This whole mess of a fight seems to be more of a power struggle than anything else.  As is evident by the constantly changing talking points that seem to focus on anything but the merits of the transportation system being proposed.

...which means that nearly everyone agrees that it will be successful.  Some just don't want to lose their social deviant concentration camp AKA Over-the-Rhine.

In the 1980's and up until Buddy Gray's shooting in 1996, he was the most visible OTR leader, and he was the guy most responsible for OTR's image. He died right at the same time junk was getting torn down on 2nd St. for Paul Brown Stadium, and the bars relocated to OTR.

UH....this has little to do with the 3-C thread.  Let's get back on topic.  And let's watch the "concentration camp" references.

For most of us, the 3-C Corridor is a want. For others it is a need, which must take precedence. My association's vice president is now in the "need" category. Here's what he had to say about someone who wondered why we need to subsidize trains and transit...

_______________

 

In about six hours I will undergo quadruple by-pass surgery. Following the surgery I will not be permitted to sit in the front seat of an airbag-equipped automobile until October.

 

Since it is illegal to disable an airbag and it is darn-near impossible to get a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration waiver to disable an airbag...especially on short notice... I will be unable to drive.

 

My wife is disabled, so there will now be two people in my household, both in their 50s, who will not be able to drive a car. We are about to be forced into a possible life-threatening, third-world transportation system at a time when we most need to get to the huge number of medical appointments in our near future.

 

It is a PROVEN FACT that ALL forms of transportation lose money and it is a PROVEN FACT that ALL forms of transportation must depend upon government subsidies.

 

FACTS are FACTS. Neither you nor I can change that. And neither can you nor I ignore it.

 

As taxpaying citizens we deserve a first-class, or at the very least a second-class transportation system. An auto-only society that excluded a large (and growing) portion of its citizenry is definitely not a first-class society.

 

It is not infuriating to know there are people who think it's their God-given right to drive from point "a" to point "b", but it is infuriating to know there are people who think that everyone MUST drive in order to get from point "a" to point "b".

It is not infuriating to know there are people who think it's their God-given right to drive from point "a" to point "b", but it is infuriating to know there are people who think that everyone MUST drive in order to get from point "a" to point "b".

 

Awesome line!

Isn't the Amtrak report due out this month?

The Amtrak report was delayed until mid-September. See articles/discussion in the last couple of pages.

 

There is a 3C "Quick Start" Workshop meeting later this week where city officials and organizations along the 3-C corridor will learn more about the project, route, stations, etc. and provide feedback.

NEWS

OHIO RAIL

DEVELOPMENT COMMISSION

1980 W. Broad Street, Columbus, Ohio 43223

(614) 644-0306 telephone or fax (614) 728-4520

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail/

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                                             

Date: 

CONTACT: Stu Nicholson

[email protected]

614-644-0513

 

ORDC/ODOT Host Workshop on Proposed 3C “Quick Start” Routes and Stations

Riding the Rails competes with Drive Times along Ohio’s 3C Corridor

 

COLUMBUS (Wednesday, August 19, 2009) - While the Ohio Rail Development Commission (ORDC) and Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) continue to advance the 3C “Quick Start” Passenger Rail Plan, early estimates by the state’s top passenger rail engineers show that the travel time by rail can be competitive with highway driving times between Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati.

 

Ohio’s 3C “Quick Start” Passenger Rail Plan will connect those cities as part of President Barack Obama’s nationally-prioritized Chicago Hub Network. With funding from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), Ohio’s 3C “Quick Start” plan would have initial conventional-speed service running by 2011 using the safest, most efficient and cost-effective route.

 

ODOT and ORDC are currently working with Amtrak and the state’s freight railroads to complete updated studies on routing and ridership. Public input is also helping to identify the most viable routes for the 79-mph 3C “Quick Start” service.

 

Based on early projections and analysis of travel times on potential routes, it’s estimated that a trip on the 3C “Quick Start” service from downtown Cleveland to downtown Columbus would take approximately 3 hours. That competes with the expected time for highway travel of about 2-and-a-half hours along the 145 mile route.

 

For a trip from downtown Cincinnati to downtown Columbus (through downtown Dayton), a ride on the 3C “Quick Start” service is projected to take approximately 3 hours. That competes with a highway travel time of about 2 hours, 20 minutes - along the 130 mile route.

 

“What makes the time on the train competitive is how you can use it,” said ORDC Executive Director Matthew Dietrich. “The business traveler can be on the phone or connected to a laptop the minute he or she gets on the train. Travel time no longer has to be down time.”

 

Questions about travel time are likely to be a part of the public discussion this Thursday, when ORDC and ODOT host the second in a series of workshops for the 3C “Quick Start” Passenger Rail Plan. Public feedback at this workshop will guide the identification and selection of a preferred route and stations.

 

This second workshop will be from:

 

10 a.m. to 12 p.m. Thursday, August 20th

at the Fawcett Conference Center,

2400 Olentangy River Rd. (off State Route 315) in Columbus.

 

A third workshop will be September 15th in Columbus to discuss the preferred corridor, stations and next steps.

 

Public meetings will be held in Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati during the week of September 15th. ORDC and ODOT must submit its 3C “Quick Start” ARRA application to the Federal Railroad Administration by October 2nd.

 

The latest information on Ohio’s 3C “Quick Start” Passenger Rail Plan can be found online at 3CisME.ohio.gov.

 

###

(The Ohio Rail Development Commission is an independent agency operating within the Ohio Department of Transportation.  ORDC is responsible for economic development through the improvement and expansion of passenger and freight rail services and railroad grade crossing safety. For more information about what ORDC does for Ohio, visit our website at

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail )

I'm surprised I'm not hearing any response to the estimated 3C travel times. One thing to keep in mind is that a train schedule that's proposed before the first train actually runs is nothing more than a theoretical exercise. And those who do the schedule estimating are usually being conservative in their estimates. Once in real operation, the train schedules invariably tighten up.

 

And, I still think a 90 mph top speed from Galion to the north side of Columbus is very doable with some affordable track, signal and grade crossing improvements.

I'm surprised I'm not hearing any response to the estimated 3C travel times. One thing to keep in mind is that a train schedule that's proposed before the first train runs is a theoreticaly exercise. And those who do the schedule estimating are usually being conservative in their estimates. Once in real operation, the train schedules invariably tighten up.

 

And, I still think a 90 mph top speed from Galion to the north side of Columbus is very doable with some affordable track, signal and grade crossing improvements.

Yippee, travel times very slightly better than I expected! Better?  :wink:

 

I'll get excited when the sucker starts rolling.

why not just say the trains will travel 80 miles an hour instead of 79.  People see the 7 first and think..hmmm slow.  It's the same thing with purchase prices...$19.99 seems cheaper than $20 in most peoples minds at first glance.

I recall 79mph is a magical number (speed limit) for rail regulators given certain conditions.

Isn't the Amtrak report due out this month?

It's running late; you might miss your connection.

http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/3c_quick_start/

 

3C Corridor will see fast passenger trains,

less highway damage after federal investment

 

All Aboard Ohio today commented on the Ohio Rail Development Commission’s announcement about projected travel times of the planned 3C “Quick Start” passenger trains linking Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati. The nonprofit advocacy association also announced the findings of a new analysis showing the 3C tracks would be able to host more freight traffic and significantly reduce the state’s expense for repairing ongoing truck damage to Interstate 71 pavement and bridges.

 

Click HERE  http://members.cox.net/ohiohsr/Highway%20savings%20from%203C%20Quick%20Start.pdf to view the analysis.

 

Bill Hutchison, president of All Aboard Ohio, noted that the estimated travel times of 3 hours between Cleveland and Columbus and 3 hours between Cincinnati and Columbus is a “raw schedule”—before any major improvements are made to the rail corridor. When reduced travel times are combined with low fares of about 14 cents per mile (based on existing Amtrak fares in the Midwest) the 3C Corridor will be a winner in terms of attracting solid ridership.

 

“Projected capital investments of between $250 million and $400 million in federal American Reinvestment & Recovery Act funds should dramatically reduce those travel times,” he said. “The improvements will benefit railroad and highway contractors alike, including new highway overpasses, road-rail crossing improvements, earthmoving for added tracks, plus advanced rail traffic control systems.”

 

Those improvements will also increase the capacity of the busy rail corridor to handle more freight by about 15 percent, according to a new analysis by All Aboard Ohio. That new capacity is sufficient to remove 400,000 truck-miles of traffic off the state-owned Interstate 71 per year, saving the Ohio Department of Transportation several million dollars annually in pavement and bridge repairs while increasing safety for motorists.

 

“Considering that, before the recession hit, railroads were turning away customers for lack of capacity, I think it’s a pretty safe bet that this added freight capacity will be utilized once the economy picks back up,” Hutchison said.

 

The end result is that the privately-owned, property tax-paying rail corridor will become a stronger economic engine for attracting industries, as well as promoting smart growth reinvestment in neighborhoods surrounding 3C “Quick Start” passenger stations. And these economic benefits will be achieved in a “clean & green” way, as passenger rail is 20-50 percent more fuel efficient than driving, while railroads can move one ton of freight more than 400 miles on a single gallon of fuel, according to CSX Transportation Inc. which owns much of the 3C Corridor tracks.

 

END

http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/midwest_governors_organize_for_high_speed_rail/

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE — Aug. 19, 2009

Contact:  Ken Prendergast

All Aboard Ohio Executive Director

(216) 288-4883

[email protected]

 

Midwest governors organize for high-speed rail

 

On Aug. 20 in Chicago, Midwest Governors will meet to establish a new organization to advance passenger rail and high-speed rail plans to reality. All Aboard Ohio is excited about the creation of this new organization, tentatively called the Midwest High-Speed Rail Steering Committee.

 

This follows the Aug. 6 announcement by Assistant Senate Majority Leader Dick Durbin (D-IL) to create a Midwest High Speed Rail Caucus of congresspersons. Senator Durbin is co-chairing the Caucus with Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN) and Representatives Jim Oberstar (D-MN) and Tom Petri (R-WI). All Aboard Ohio encourages members of Ohio Congressional Delegation to join this important caucus to ensure the Midwest gets its share of federal rail dollars.

 

The Midwest High-Speed Rail Steering Committee will meet tomorrow at the Art Institute of Chicago. There they will identify organizational issues including electing a chair, admittance of ex-officio members, communication protocols, coordination with federal officials, and meeting schedules. Formation of the steering committee is an outgrowth of a memorandum of understanding signed by the governors of eight Midwest states—Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri and Wisconsin. Mayor Richard M. Daley also signed the MOU on behalf of the City of Chicago.

 

“The steering committee adds another coalition of important decision makers,” said All Aboard Ohio President Bill Hutchison. “The Midwest collectively has the best passenger rail plans in the nation. The rail services that emerge from these plans will perform even better if all the plans are implemented simultaneously. So it makes sense that Midwest governors work collectively to make all of these great plans a reality.”

 

If the number of pro-rail organizations is any indication of the excitement about Midwest high-speed rail and the specialization of rail expertise, then the Midwest has a lot of each. In addition to the Midwest High-Speed Rail Steering Committee (Governors) and the Midwest High Speed Rail Caucus (Congresspersons), there is the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Commission (State Legislators) and the States For Passenger Rail Coalition (state Department of Transportation planners).

 

And, of course, citizens, businesses and local governments have formed their own advocacy organizations including All Aboard Ohio, Midwest High Speed Rail Association, Indiana High Speed Rail Association, Michigan Association of Railroad Passengers, National Association of Railroad Passengers and others.

 

END

Sadly, WVXU and a couple other news orgs were leading with the fact that it will be slower to take the train than drive today. I know all the details, but I think you will hear voices that will question the inclusion of non-Cs in the 3C RR, especially if this devolves to a question of car versus train speed.

 

As long as it is with a half hour or so of a car trip I think its competitive and is reliable. The trains must run on time.

So true. The fact that 3C "Quick Start" trains would take 6 hours BEFORE any major investments are made is tremendous. Making $250 million to $400 million worth of improvements to the rail corridor will make significant reductions in travel time. My hope is that the initial 3C travel from downtown Cleveland to downtown Cincinnati is under 5 hours, but I recognize that last few miles into Cincinnati will be a slow one no matter what route is taken.

So, add 1 hour at each end of that trip to get door-to-door to final destination.  8 hours to Cleveland.

Comparing a startup rail line with a state-of-the-art highway system that has benefitted from a lopsided federal and state transportation "policy" for decades is ridiculous.

 

Here's a point: We didn't start out with superhighways either. We plodded along on two lane roads at 45 mph for many years. What was the travel time then? And who paid for the Interstates anyway? Hint: Congress spent $25 billion in 1955 dollars directly from the US Treasury (i.e., non-users) to start building the Interstate Highway system.

 

The same scenario applies to 3-C. What we start off with will change as time goes on. That was noted by KJP in an earlier post. Six hours between Cincinnati and Cleveland is not ideal. It's only a starting point. Anyone with half an ounce of sense would realize that.

 

By the way, what sort of 3-C Corridor would we have if we spent the same amount on it that we did on I-71? Think about that.