Lots of idiots commenting on the Dayton article.  The amount of ignorance out there is absolutely astounding.  Also, it seems that too many people just don't know how to reason and think anymore, they just try to pass off opinion as fact.

That's common among just about all newspaper "sound-offs" following news articles, which suffer from having anonymous posting and poor moderation.

It's like 'talk radio": a haven for the ignorant.

Lots of idiots commenting on the Dayton article. The amount of ignorance out there is absolutely astounding. Also, it seems that too many people just don't know how to reason and think anymore, they just try to pass off opinion as fact.

 

Yeah, I hate those. Makes the city seem so trashy and full of morons (which may be true!!). I think alot of people that post anti-urban, at least on the DDN articles, are not from the city or Montgomery County. Gives a terrible impression of the city as a crime-ridden hell hole, which it's not. I really wish these were linked off the article page. I've argued with people on there, but there's no point. The DDN has turned into something of a rag.

http://yourerie.com/content/fulltext/?cid=82532

 

High Speed Rail Rally

Reported by: Jeremy Beecher

Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009 @05:04pm EDT

 

If you live in Erie -- it's probably been a long time since you took the train. But, a local group wants to change all that in a big way.

 

The group is called "All Aboard Erie". They want Erie included in a national high-speed rail network being proposed by the Obama Administration.

 

For now the federal government is committing $8 billion to its plan which has 10 lines throughout the country. Two of them come tantalizingly close to Erie. One would connect New York & Boston to Buffalo. Another line would connect Chicago to Cleveland.

 

So this group's message is: instead of ending the lines there, why not link those two cities -- and put Erie on the map?

 

Read more and see the video at:

http://yourerie.com/content/fulltext/?cid=82532

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE  

Date: October 14, 2009

CONTACT: Stu Nicholson

[email protected]

614-644-0513

 

Ohios 3C Quick Start and Midwest Rail Plans Tops Agenda

As Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Commission Meets in Columbus

 

(Columbus) Adding to the unprecedented interest in passenger rail development in Ohio, the multi-state Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Commission (MIPRC) will hold the groups first-ever meeting in Ohio Thursday (Oct. 15th)) and Friday (Oct 16th) to discuss the future of passenger rail in the region.

 

The status of Ohios recent 3C Quick Start application for federal stimulus funds - as well as the applications of other Midwestern projects - will be a lead topic on the MIPRC agenda, along with discussions about pending federal legislation aimed at long-term high-speed passenger rail funding.

 

Bringing together transportation leaders and passenger rail experts from across the Midwest, the MIPRC will meet at the Westin Columbus Hotel at 310 South High Street in downtown Columbus, just blocks away from a proposed station location for Ohios 3C Quick Start service.

 

Ohio welcomes transportation leaders from across the Midwest to Columbus. This meeting provides an opportunity to discuss how a robust regional passenger rail system will generate economic growth in Ohio and beyond, said Ohio Governor Ted Strickland said. Just a few weeks ago, Ohio was one of eight Midwestern states to submit federal stimulus applications for passenger rail projects, illustrating our commitment to building a system of rail transportation that connects our region and grows the Midwest economy.

 

Earlier this month, Ohio submitted an impressive application for federal stimulus funding for the 3C Quick Start Plan - connecting Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati with medium speed 79 mph passenger trains. The application carried with it over 140 letters and resolutions of support from governments, community and business leaders from all along the 3C Corridor.

 

The 3C Quick Start Plan is one component of ORDCs plans to deliver an additional transportation choice to Ohioans. Ohio also joined the State of Indiana in applying for $2.8 billion in Recovery Act funds to finance planning for advancing the Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland corridor to high speed. In addition, the state is conducting the next required environmental study for implementing high speed passenger rail in the following corridors: Toledo-Cleveland-Pittsburgh; ColumbusToledo; and Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati. Governor Strickland and Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell have also sent a joint letter to the Federal Railroad Administration urging the FRA to designate Cleveland-Pittsburgh as a high speed rail corridor, which would create a federally designated high speed rail corridor connecting Chicago, Toledo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Philadelphia.

 

According to information gathered by the MIPRC, eight Midwestern states have submitted applications to receive federal funding for the development of passenger rail corridors. Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio and Wisconsin met the Oct. 2 deadline for submitting applications for multi-year passenger rail corridor program funding from the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) under its High Speed Intercity Passenger Rail program. Together, these states asked for almost $10 billion in Track 2 funding to fully develop corridors and purchase train sets for new service.

 

The MIPRC meeting is an excellent opportunity for Ohio and our fellow Midwest states to advance the discussion about the need for improved passenger rail and projects such as our 3C Quick Start , the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative and the Ohio Hub Plan for high speed passenger rail service, said ORDC Executive Director Matt Dietrich.

 

One of Fridays sessions, in fact, will include a report on a visit to observe Spains high speed rail system by MIPRC Commissioners. Among those Commissioners on the trip were Ohio State Rep. Robert Hagan, himself a railroad locomotive engineer and an ORDC Commissioner, and Art Arnold of the Ohio Railroad Association. Ohio state Senator Thomas Patton, Chairman of the Ohio Senate Highways and Transportation Committee is also a MIPRC Commissioner.

 

MIPRC brings together state legislators and other transportation leaders from across the region to advocate for passenger rail improvements. Formed by compact agreement in 2000, the MIPRC's current members are Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio and Wisconsin. Ohio is among the founding members.

 

Interview opportunities for the media will be available for both days of the meetings. Please contact Stu Nicholson of the ORDC at 614-644-0513 or Scott Varner of ODOT at 614-644-8640 for more information.

My comment about politicians didn't make sense without the other things I said to the reporter before and after. Oh well. He ackowledged he was filling in for the transportation reporter....

 

Published: October 14. 2009 1:15AM

High-speed rail fans rally at Union Station

Group pushes for rail corridor through Erie

By ROBB FREDERICK

[email protected]

 

Three trains passed Union Station in an hour Tuesday night. None of them stopped.

 

The crowd in the rotunda -- now the dining room for Brewerie at Union Station -- spent that hour talking about the next wave of trains. They say it's coming, and fast: The new engines will travel 110 mph.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.goerie.com:80/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009310149938

FRA Releases Preliminary National Rail Plan:

 

Since this impacts both freight and passenger rail in the United States, I thought it best to post this here.  It is the Preliminary National Rail Plan and was just release yesterday by the FRA and will likely get a lot of comment from the states:

 

http://www.fra.dot.gov/Downloads/RailPlanPrelim10-15.pdf

High-speed rail isn’t threat to Detroit 3, U.S. transportation chief says

 

By Bill Shea

 

Michigan’s participation in a coalition of states pursuing federal dollars for a Midwest high-speed rail system isn’t a threat to the automobile industry, U.S. Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood said this afternoon.

 

He also said he will dispatch staffers to meet with Detroit Mayor Dave Bing to discuss cuts to the city’s bus service and how the system can be made more efficient and new money can be found for it.

 

Read more at:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20091013/FREE/910139985#

Yeah, I hate those. Makes the city seem so trashy and full of morons (which may be true!!). I think alot of people that post anti-urban, at least on the DDN articles, are not from the city or Montgomery County. Gives a terrible impression of the city as a crime-ridden hell hole, which it's not. I really wish these were linked off the article page. I've argued with people on there, but there's no point. The DDN has turned into something of a rag.

 

The DDN is a lot better than its readers.  The paper did an excellent series of articles this Sunday on the housing crisis here.

 

The comments are probably representative of the type of people who live in the area (both city and suburbs) and the anti-urban negatvity expressed is probably why Dayton is an unusually sucky place for a city its size.  Just a lot of pig-ignorant consevatism in this area.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I hate those. Makes the city seem so trashy and full of morons (which may be true!!). I think alot of people that post anti-urban, at least on the DDN articles, are not from the city or Montgomery County. Gives a terrible impression of the city as a crime-ridden hell hole, which it's not. I really wish these were linked off the article page. I've argued with people on there, but there's no point. The DDN has turned into something of a rag.

 

The DDN is a lot better than its readers.  The paper did an excellent series of articles this Sunday on the housing crisis here.

 

The comments are probably representative of the type of people who live in the area (both city and suburbs) and the anti-urban negatvity expressed is probably why Dayton is an unusually sucky place for a city its size. 

 

I don't think it's entirely sucky, but I haven't lived many other places. Dayton is very frustrating at times, no doubt. I really hope this rail program gets off to a good start without to much local juggling and bickering.

 

Those housing articles were good. Kudos to DDN there.

 

Just a lot of pig-ignorant consevatism in this area.

I might borrow that term sometime.

 

 

October 22, 2009

High-Speed Rail Effort Proceeds With Caution

By JOSH VOORHEES of Greenwire

The New York Times

First in a series.

 

President Obama billed the $8 billion in stimulus funds for high-speed rail as the "first step" toward a nationwide system of European-style bullet trains linking the nation's largest cities.

 

But now his administration must take the second step: figuring out how and where to spend the cash among more than $50 billion worth of proposals from across the country.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/10/22/22greenwire-high-speed-rail-effort-proceeds-with-caution-77408.html

Anything new going on with this?

You should hear more in the next couple of weeks.

^Awesome!!!!!

I wouldn't get THAT excited. If you're expecting the announcement of the funding, that won't happen for several months.

I had to share this cartoon posted at the Cincinnati streetcar thread. It's a classic...

 

http://caast-usa.blogspot.com/2009/10/issue-9-would-maroon-cincinnati.html

 

Ken Orski’s INNOVATION BRIEFS  October 29 2009

Weighing the Future of High-Speed Rail in America  

 

It’s a familiar Washington scenario: a major new federal grant program is launched and soon a brand new constituency is born with an army of supplicants and lobbyists eager to secure a piece of the action. The Administration’s high-speed rail initiative has been no exception. The initiative has spawned a large and enthusiastic following. Two regional coalitions — the Midwest High Speed Rail Coalition (IL,WI,IO,MN, MS.MI,IN, OH) and the Western High-Speed Rail Alliance (AZ,CO,NV,UT)— have entered the competition, supported by the umbrella States for Passenger Rail Coalition headed by Frank Busalacchi, Secretary of Wisconsin DOT.  Also in the running are several statewide rail corridors including California, the sole state with a tangible high-speed rail project, having secured voters' approval for a $10 billion bond measure.  Cheering on the sidelines is the newly formed One Rail Coalition which includes many of the established rail-oriented lobbies such as the Associations of American Railroads (AAR), the National Association of Railroad Passengers (NARP), the American Public Transportation Association (APTA) and the Railway Supply Institute.

 

more at : http://www.innobriefs.com/index.html

For Immediate Release                                                                     

Contact: Coby Williams

October 29, 2009                                                                               

(513) 328-0568                                                                         

[email protected]

 

 

 

OEC urges NO vote on Issue 9

 

A vote for Issue 9 is a vote to derail Cincinnati’s link with Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, and the nation on 3C train

 

(Columbus, OH)—The Ohio Environmental Council today announced its opposition to Cincinnati Issue 9.

 

The OEC believes Issue 9 has the potential to derail a station stop in Cincinnati along the proposed 3C corridor, linking Cincinnati with daily train service to Dayton, Columbus, and Cleveland.

 

As worded, Issue 9 would prohibit the city from spending any monies for right-of-way acquisition or construction of improvements for passenger rail transportation within the city limits without first securing approval of the voters. 

 

Issue 9 is promoted as a referendum on a local streetcar proposal, but its wording is so broad that it could be applied to any passenger rail project involving Cincinnati, including the 3C train proposal.  Cincinnati voters will vote Tuesday on Issue 9.

 

‘‘Issue 9 will put a big red stop signal at the city limits of Cincinnati along the 3C rail corridor.  It could totally derail the 3C train from reaching Cincinnati and prevent it from ever becoming anything more than a 2C train.  If that happens, Cincinnati will miss out on the commerce, convenience, and connection that arrives with daily passenger rail service,” said Coby Williams, Legislative and Public Affairs Associate for the OEC and a native of Cincinnati.

 

Earlier this month, the Ohio Department of Transportation submitted an application for $564 million in federal stimulus funds for the Ohio 3C “Quick Start” Passenger Rail Plan.  If approved by federal transportation agencies, Ohio plans to make track improvements and acquire train cars and engines to restore daily passenger service along the 3C corridor. 

 

According to Ohio transportation officials, the 3C corridor is one of the most populous corridors in the country not served by passenger trains; more than 6 million people live along the 3C corridor.  An Amtrak study released in September verified there is pent up demand for passenger service in Ohio, projecting nearly half a million riders a year along the 3C corridor.

 

The OEC expects that individual cities will be asked to contribute to the 3C corridor, helping acquire right of way and helping construct or improve new or existing stations.  Under Issue 9’s wording, Cincinnati would be prohibited from making such contributions, unless voters expressly approved them.  This could delay or even derail a station stop in Cincinnati.

 

State officials plan start-up, 79-MPH service along the 3C corridor as a prelude to 115 MPH high-speed train service.  The 3C corridor is part of the federally designated, high-speed Chicago Hub Network, connecting Cincinnati with Dayton, Columbus, and Cleveland and with other Midwest cities. Nearby connections are envisioned to include Indianapolis, Louisville, Toledo, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Detroit.

                                                                                                                   

“The ultimate plan for the 3C corridor is for 115-MPH trains whisking travelers in and out of Cincinnati to points north, south, east, and west.  The people of Cincinnati have a clear choice:  Do they want to get on board the move to safe, comfortable, convenient train travel to other parts of the state and beyond, or do they want to slap a ‘go slow’ order on our city.  We hope Cincinnatians will cast a vote for progress and vote no on Issue 9,” said Williams.

 

 

-end- 

 

 

The mission of the Ohio Environmental Council (OEC) is to secure healthy air, land, and water for all who call Ohio home.  The OEC is Ohio’s leading advocate for fresh air, clean water, and sustainable land use.  The OEC has a 40-year history of innovation, pragmatism, and success.  Using legislative initiatives, legal action, scientific principles, and statewide partnerships, the OEC secures a healthier environment for Ohio’s families and communities.  For more information, visit www.theOEC.org.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091031/NEWS16/910310367

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article published October 31, 2009

 

Rail plan includes Toledo

Stimulus funding sought to expand Ohio services

By DAVID PATCH

BLADE STAFF WRITER

 

While Ohio's initial effort for federal rail stimulus funding focuses on the so-called Three-C Corridor (Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati), future rail development will include two routes serving Toledo, a state official promised local rail advocates Friday.

 

"The Three-C is not a stand-alone - it's a first step," Matt Dietrich, director of the Ohio Rail Development Commission, promised members of the Northwest Ohio Passenger Rail Association during a luncheon at the Hilton Garden Inn at Levis Commons in Perrysburg.

High Speed Ohio rail plan moving forward    

WNWO-TV

 

(Perrysburg, OH)  --    Ohio rail planners say they expect to have an answer from the federal government on Ohio's request for high speed rail funding by sometime "this winter".  Matt Dietrich, the Executive Director of the Ohio Rail Development Commission says Ohio has requested  570 million dollars from federal stimulus funds to begin building the proposed 3 "C" corridor that would link Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati in the initial phases, with subsequent projects to link Toledo and Columbus.

 

More at: http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/story.aspx?id=370356

NOVEMBER 2, 2009, 2:34 P.M. ET

US Railroad Head: Hopeful For January $8 Bln Stimulus Spending

  By Ann Keeton

  Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

 

EVANSTON, Ill. (Dow Jones)--The Federal Railroad Administration will award $8 billion in stimulus money to develop high-speed-passenger-rail service to various state applicants this winter, "hopefully in January," Joseph Szabo, administrator of the U.S. railroad oversight agency said following a presentation Monday.

 

Speaking at a Northwestern University symposium on transportation policy, Szabo said the number of requests for stimulus funds has far exceeded his expectations. The agency had planned to divvy up the money in October, but "the fact of the matter is, this is a transformational time for passenger rail. We're taking a few more months to make sure the $8 billion is clearly invested in the right places."

 

More at:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091102-712058.html?mod=dist_smartbrief

Great news! The voters of Cincinnati have defeated Issue 9, the proposed anti-passenger rail city charter amendment. Issue 9, had it passed, would have required a public vote on every City of Cincinnati expenditure for improving passenger rail, including streetcars, existing Amtrak services in Cincinnati Union Terminal, 3C "Quick Start" passenger rail, high-speed rail and possibly even the train ride at the city zoo!

 

Instead, 56 percent of voters defeated this punitive measure. Congratulations!!

This is exciting news!  WOOT!

More good news came from the mayoral races. Rail-activist mayors in Cleveland (Frank Jackson) and Cincinnati (Mark Mallory) were re-elected. Jackson was re-elected by a 77-33 margin! While pro-rail Dayton Mayor Rhine McLin was narrowly defeated by Gary Leitzell, he has made a number of pro-rail comments about 3C Corridor, namely that he wanted the trains and/or components built in Dayton. However Riverside Deputy Mayor Jim Wellman was not re-elected.

^Were votes for the mayor 110% of a normal vote, or did just 110 people vote?

 

                    :-D

                    :evil:

Writer usually does not equal mathematician.

Freight trains show path for people, too

Sunday, November 08, 2009

By Brian O'Neill, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

 

Legendary investor Warren Buffett made a $26.3 billion bet on America's future last week. He plunked it down to buy the Burlington Northern Santa Fe, acquiring all of the great Western freight railroad that his company didn't already own.

 

Mr. Buffett is 79 but isn't thinking short-term. He's looking 10 and 20 years down the road. He's betting that higher fuel costs will give railroads an ever greater advantage over trucks, and the American freight rail system is already the best in the world.

 

Our generally pitiful passenger rail service is its direct opposite.

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09312/1011714-155.stm

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09312/1011714-155.stm#ixzz0WHackRFN

 

The article also mentions a new advocacy group for one of the least mentioned corridors in the Ohio Hub plan - Columbus to Pittsburgh.  Please see the link below for the groups web site.

 

http://www.powvtransit.com/POWVHighSpeedRail.html

November 6, 2009

Stimulus Sparks Scuffle Among High-Speed Rail Boosters

By JOSH VOORHEES of Greenwire

for The New York Times

 

Interest in high-speed rail was lukewarm until President Obama packed $8 billion for it into the stimulus package.

 

Now, standing-room-only crowds show up when rail is on the agenda, and some high-speed-rail advocates are not sure anymore about who's at the throttle and who's in the caboose.

 

Full story at:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/11/06/06greenwire-stimulus-sparks-scuffle-among-high-speed-rail-16795.html 

Can city woo 3-C rail stop?

Middletown must show how it could develop area around depot for expected passengers.

By Jessica Heffner, Staff Writer

11:39 PM Friday, November 6, 2009

 

MIDDLETOWN — About 75 residents, college students and area city and county planners came together for nine hours Friday, Nov. 6, with one goal in mind: how to get a passenger rail stop in Middletown.

 

The event was part of a “World Town Planning Day” discussion held by the Butler County Department of Development at Middletown City Hall, One Donham Plaza. The group brainstormed ideas for how to make a usable intermodal depot as well as develop the area within a half mile radius of its location.

 

Find this article at:

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/can-city-woo-3-c-rail-stop-389869.html

 

Personally I think a stop in Hamilton would be better than a stop in Middletown.

One problem is that in order to stop in Hamilton, the 3C trains would have to cross another railroad, which adds to the delays.  That adds another infrastructure issue to be resolved.

I'm posting this here since one of the Ohio Hub routes extends from Cleveland, Erie and Buffalo into Canada (to Niagara Falls, Hamilton and Toronto)....

 

Poll: Canadians support HSR, government backing

 

A poll conducted for the Railway Association of Canada found that 86% of those surveyed would either “strongly” or “somewhat” support establishment of high speed rail in Canada.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/poll-canadians-support-hsr-government-backing.html

From the Editor: FRA caught between merit and politics?   

By William C. Vantuono, Editor

November 12, 2009

 

The Federal Railroad Administration is now evaluating a tall stack of applications for high speed passenger rail projects—roughly $100 billion worth for an $8 billion ARRA (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) grant program. Federal Railroad Administrator Joseph Szabo, based on his staff’s recommendations, will be the one to sign off on which projects are funded, and for how much. Given that demand far exceeds supply, he’s going to have to make some tough choices.

 

The selection process, says FRA, is “merit-based,” an approach Administrator Szabo reiterated during his luncheon address at Railway Age’s “Passenger Trains on Freight Railroads” conference last month. It’s in official documents, as well. From the Federal Register: “The evaluation and selection criteria are intended to prioritize projects that deliver transportation, economic recovery, and other public benefits, including energy independence, environmental quality, and livable communities; ensure project success through effective project management, financial planning, and stakeholder commitments; and emphasize a balanced approach to project types, locations, innovation, and timing.”

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.railwayage.com/from-the-editor/from-the-editor-fra-caught-between-merit-and-politics.html

Maybe they should take some of that $210 billion in unspent TARP funds (apparently not enough shovel-ready projects?), maybe $50 billion, and put it toward rail projects, even though they're not quite shovel ready some (like the 3C corridor) are pretty far along.

 

Here's one story about the unspent TARP funds.  Seems like this story has been in the news all week.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/67597-obama-administration-may-eye-using-tarp-for-deficit-reduction

I've been watching how the political wave has grown around High Speed rail, with smaller and smaller cities now wanting a piece of the action. Since everyone references Europe on this issue, I whipped up a map that imposes the USA over Europe's high-speed network.

 

(Network image from Wikipedia)

 

As you can see, even Europe's system is not very complete, even on the regional level. Now take a look at the Ohio Hub build-out:

 

 

There is nowhere in Europe that has that kind of high-speed rail density. I'm all in favor of the 3C line, BUT, if Europe is any precedent at all, I'm not sure if we can afford to link every metro in Ohio with 200 MPH trains. Some cities are going to have to have a reality check.

Civvik, That's a pretty cool map and comparison. But there are many, many European passenger rail lines not shown. Only the busiest, fastest rail lines are shown. For example, in the UK, the only rail lines shown are those offering train speeds of 125 mph and up, with trains departing every 30 minutes or more frequently. I've ridden or trainspotted all of those lines.

 

But there are many, many more rail routes, most of which offer train speeds of 60-100 mph. Just in the UK, their passenger rail system has these routes offering a national network having more than 20,000 trains per day:

 

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tocs_maps/maps/trainoperators.pdf

 

Lines on a map don't tell the full story. Most lines have hourly service. Many are much more frequent. If you zoom in on the above map and look to southwest England, you'll see a branch line from Newton Abbot to Paignton. Just north of Paignton is Torquay where our B&B was -- next to the tracks. Each hour, more passenger trains (five trains) would go by our B&B than serve Cleveland (four trains) in 24 hours. And this was in March, in the off-season for tourists!

 

On continental Europe, as you ride through the countryside, you frequently cross other rail lines with passenger trains on them, and all the lines are electrified -- something which is not cost-effective unless there is high traffic density. On your map above, for example, between Cologne and Frankfurt, it shows only the high-speed line. But there are two older conventional speed lines, one each side of the Rhine River, where freight and passenger trains mix. Plus, there are electric interurban railways like what crisscrossed Ohio prior to World War II traveling between major cities in that Rhine valley, such as between Cologne and Bonn.

 

From Cologne to Frankfurt on one of the old lines, we passed passenger trains on our side of the river every few minutes and saw several passenger trains on the other side of the Rhine. And we cruised along at 80-100 mph on a 150-year-old right of way, covering the 140-mile distance (think Cleveland - Columbus) in two hours flat. The new high-speed line covers the same distance in one hour, but the old lines are still there and still quite busy!

 

Even this map doesn't show all the routes in Germany (the map also pre-dates the 2002 construction of the 200 mph line between Cologne and Frankfurt and instead identifies one of the old 100 mph lines as the high-speed line):

 

 

 

And here's France, which shows many more passenger rail routes, but leaves out some of the "regio" lines which hybrids between what we would call commuter rail and intercity lines:

 

It's hard for Americans to understand what the rest of the civilized world has until they experience it. When you tell Americans that cities like Cleveland, Columbus or Cincinnati had more than 100 passenger trains per day 60 years ago, they're impressed. But most European cities the size of any of the 3Cs have HUNDREDS if not ONE THOUSAND passenger trains per day, and they're at the greatest number of trains in their histories. Even many European cities smaller than the 3Cs have many more trains than we ever did. In England, York and Reading (populations of less than 150,000) have more than 400 trains per day.

 

Go to Europe. Come back shocked -- if not depressed.

^ Don't worry, I am not as dumb as I look! I have been to Europe several times, and ridden both the ICE and TGV extensively, although not in the last 10 years. It is wonderful.  Part of my post was to goad you into a defense, since you are so knowledgeable on the subject.

 

Still, one has to remember that Europe is not small and the large nations are much larger than our states. Every supporting metric is larger. The Ohio Hub build-out is an incredibly dense allocation of capital infrastructure under my map, your map, anyone's map.

 

I'm not even going to go into how the cities themselves aren't set up to maximize rail travel demand. It can always change over time.

 

Also, 60-100 MPH is not, in my opinion nor apparently the opinion of whoever made the Wikipedia map, "high speed." It doesn't compete with auto travel.

 

Moral of my rant, I suppose: This isn't a "bold new adventure." This is a retrofit. In my perhaps undereducated opinion, they should focus on making the 3C segment as fast as possible, in the shortest time horizon as possible.

The environmental work on 4 higher-speed corridors in Ohio is about to get underway.  It will take 18 to 24 months to complete. 

 

The four corridors are:

Cleveland-Pittsburgh

Cleveland-Toledo

Columbus-Toledo

Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati

 

If funding is gained for the 3C start-up...that should take a little less than 2 years to get up and running.

 

Bottom line:  About the time the first 79mph 3C trains begin running, the environmental work on the 4 corridors should be at or near completion.  At that point Ohio can be seeking and securing federal matching funding to ramp up service and speeds to 110 mph.

^ What is the speed threshold at which they need to rebuild the track? Any? Also would these be high-speed diesel, or electrified lines?

The Ohio Hub Programmatic Environmental Impact Study will look at different potential speeds, including 79 mph startup service, plus 90 mph and 110 mph full build-out options. Freight railroads will allow passenger trains at up to 90 mph on shared freight tracks (but potentially with a newly built main track or perhaps passing sidings to avoid creating traffic congestion) or up to 110 mph on passenger-only tracks separated by 25 feet from the centerline of the nearest active freight track. These would be diesel trains.

 

BTW, my comment about 60-100 mph was not in reference to the routes shown on your Wikipedia map, but rather to routes NOT shown on your Wikipedia map. And those slower-speed routes constitute perhaps 80-90 percent of Europe's passenger rail route mileage. But most Americans never hear about those because the high-speed trains get the headlines so my experience is that Americans tend to be surprised that most of Europe's routes aren't 125 mph or faster.

http://www.railwayage.com/in-this-issue/for-regional-railcars-a-higher-speed-reality.html

 

For regional railcars, a ‘higher-speed’ reality

Transit properties prepare to accommodate a second operator by upgrading their own equipment capabilities to better mesh with a new reality.

 

By Douglas John Bowen, Managing Editor

Railway Age Magazine

 

If North American high speed rail takes a shared-use, incremental approach to gain a foothold, count on regional/commuter rail agencies to make adjustments accordingly. If, by contrast, one or more “European-style” separated high speed rail corridors emerge, count on much the same thing. Railcar suppliers are ready for either outcome, and are both tailoring existing equipment designs and developing new ones to offer to their customers. Moreover, suppliers can in effect design for both  markets simultaneously, to the benefit of all involved.

 

The template is already in place. Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor trains share track space with numerous regional railroads, on track owned either by Amtrak itself or other entities. Regional operators may not race their trains against Amtrak’s Acela service, but they must be nimble enough to move those trains into place (or out of the way).

 

Full story at the above link:

Senator Tom Patton continues to oppose the 3-C Corridor project.  Interesting that his bio on his Ohio Senate web page says the following about the importance of infrastructure development:

 

"Patton knows that investing in the state’s infrastructure is a way to not only create jobs in the short run, but also to prepare for future economic growth. Job-creation and economic revitalization are Senator Patton’s highest priorities..."

 

http://www.ohiosenate.gov/tom-patton/fullbio.html

 

Hmmm...  ideologue?  His mind is made up, don't confuse him with the facts?

 

The Tracking Ohio Poll in 2001 and the Quinnipiac Univeristy poll this year (2009) clearly show that a majority of Ohioans want passenger trains

 

Hmm...  anti-democracy? 

 

I'm putting this item in this thread because the investments between Hamilton and Niagara Falls will impact the proposed Cleveland - Erie - Buffalo - Niagara Falls - Hamilton - Toronto leg of the Ohio Hub System. BTW, Ohio, Pennsylvania and New York intercity rail interests may wish to submit public comments during the upcoming Environmental Assessment for GO Transit's project.......

 

GO looks at new Niagara rail service expansion

Tuesday, November 17, 2009

 

GO Transit in metropolitan Toronto is set to start an environmental assessment that will look at what infrastructure upgrades would be required to expand rail service to the Niagara Peninsula, including prospective building sites for new rail stations and potential improvements to the existing rail line. The EA begins the week of Nov. 16, with completion scheduled for summer 2010.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.rtands.com/newsflash/go-looks-at-new-niagara-rail-service-expansion.html

NOACA MEETING FRIDAY, PLEASE ATTEND IF YOU CAN

 

 

http://www.gcbl.org/events/noaca-tac-3c-rail-hearing-11-20-2009

 

Among the agenda items for the meeting is for NOACA to decide whether or not to include the 3-C Corridor in its regional transportation plan.  Please show up and comment if you can:

 

Location

NOACA

1299 Superior Avenue

Cleveland, OH

United States

See map: Google Maps, Yahoo! Maps, MapQuest

Date: Friday, November 20, 2009

Time: 10:00am - 11:30am

Location: 1299 Superior Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio 44114

Description

Two major transportation improvement projects are about to get underway in Northeast Ohio - The 3C rail quick start proposal, connecting Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati (and Dayton) and the rebuilding of the Innerbelt Bridge (I90) in downtown Cleveland.

 

As it stands now, NOACA is the only MPO (metropolitan planning organization) along the 3C corridor in Ohio that has not approved adding the 3C project to this region's transportation improvement plan (TIP). This step is necessary for the project to receive federal funding, and sends a strong message that Northeast Ohio supports passenger rail investment.

 

Please consider attending the NOACA's Transportation Advisory Committee meeting on Friday, November 20 at 10am. The public is allowed to sign in before the meeting and provide comments on this project for up to 2 minutes. Please help fill the room with positive comments on how having transportation choices in Northeast Ohio will help you, your family, business, etc. to live and do business in Ohio.

 

To date, there has been no public comment at these meetings, and a few of the NOACA board members have been asking why people just can't drive and that there doesn't appear to be a need for transportation choices in Ohio.

 

Meeting Agenda:

http://cf.noaca.org/calendar/meetingtac.html

 

Public Comment Instructions:

http://www.noaca.org/pipsum.pdf

 

NOACA's 3C Page (send comments to link at bottom to be included before Board vote):

http://www.noaca.org/3crail.html Facebook event page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/event.php?eid=175541319805

 

 

 

I submitted written comments on behalf of All Aboard Ohio. I was up to 2:30 a.m. trying to write a concise statement!

My son's red-eye flight from Seattle got to Cincinnati at 7 a.m., with a 9 a.m. connection to Columbus. His one-hour flight is now delayed by two hours. Tell me again why we don't have a real rail system in this country?

See:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18743.0.html

Earlier today, members of NOACA's Transportation Advisory Committee voted unanimously in support of a recommendation to put 3C "Quick Start" on NOACA's long-range transportation plan. Now, all metropolitan planning organizations along the 3C Corridor will have this project on their long-range plans, thereby making the project eligible to receive federal funds.

 

Thanks to all of you who submitted public comments to NOACA in support of this recommendation!