KJP, please let the board know if you ever get a response.

  "Traveler surveys conducted by Amtrak show that the most important priorities for travelers are, in order: low fares, convenient departure times, reliability and then speed."

 

  I generally agree with you here except that I would not put much confidence in surveys conducted by Amtrak. People will say one thing and do another.

 

  In my humble opinion, what matters most to a lot of people is the door to door travel time, including trips to the station or stop whether by car or foot. Travelling an hour in the wrong direction to the station for example is not going to be favorable for most people.

 

 

Who would have to travel one hour in the wrong direction?

 

Not all minutes are created equal, and not everyones circumstances are the same. When you're driving a car, you're literally driving a car. It's what you're doing for the time that you do it. Riding a train is not something that you do, it's somewhere that you are. You can do all kinds of things while you're on the train. You're not spending time in the same way, so you don't directly compare them.

 

I feel that the speed issue is more about availability and freedom than about speed. What if the trains left once an hour, and it took two hours to do Sharonville-Columbus. That's not a far stretch. That's way better than, say, a train that went from Sharonville to Columbus in 8 minutes, but twice a day.

Indeed not all minutes are created equal, although we try to make them so.  Too many people mistakenly think that driving a car at 80 MPH is a reason to set the cruise control, relax, and get some work done.  Talk on your bluetooth, watch your DVD, turn around and scream at your kids, and hunt for the right app on your iphone.

 

Your auto is not your office, and if that fact became better appreciated, more commuters would fall out of love with their autos, but people would be safer.

 

Today I was on my motorcycle entering I75S at the Ridge road ramp, and blinkered safely into the left hand lane at about 70 MPH (it's one of those left hand entrance ramps).  A few seconds later, some mindless jerk enters my lane from the right, and all of a sudden I find myself able to literally touch the left rear quarter panel of a hulking SUV.  She was going about 80, based on my speed.  Muscle memory takes over as I look quickly in both mirrors, squeeze the clutch and the brakes (gently), and look ahead to decide if I need to maneuver left.  And, from 5 feet behind the SUVs side mirror, I see clearly the drivers face staring... down... at... her smartphone. She never even saw me, or got the pleasure of hearing the profanity streaming inside my helmet.

 

When your life is nearly taken by someone pretending that their car is their luxury office, then you'll appreciate the club car.

  "Free parking is envisioned at smaller stations like Sharonville. And why walk five minutes to the station? It's likely you will park less than 50 feet from the station platform."

 

  If the Sharonville station looks like that, with free parking for about 20 cars, then quite frankly the ridership that this line will generate is not worth the effort.

 

    I imagine the stations being something like the airport, though maybe not as big and without as many security hassles. You have lots of long term parking and short term parking, along with development around the station.

 

    Cincinnati Union Terminal has a parking lot a quater mile long. That's a 5 minute walk for a lot of people.

 

 

    "Not all minutes are created equal."

 

    I know that, and you know that, but most Ohioans don't because they've never been on a passenger train before. All they know is that the 3-C train will go at 37 mph, because that was the number that was published.

 

    "Today I was on my motorcycle at about 70 mph."

 

    You scare me.  :-o

Cincinnati Union Terminal has a parking lot a quater mile long. That's a 5 minute walk for a lot of people.

 

It is for those of us who are cheapskates and park on Kenner Street.  :) 

"Not all minutes are created equal."

 

I know that, and you know that, but most Ohioans don't because they've never been on a passenger train before. All they know is that the 3-C train will go at 37 mph, because that was the number that was published.

 

What good is it to argue this point here? Go out and tell people.

"It is for those of us who are cheapskates and park on Kenner Street."

 

  You and me both, bro. Shame that the Dalton Street pedestrian entrance is fenced off, probably due to homeless sleeping on the covered stairway.

  "Free parking is envisioned at smaller stations like Sharonville. And why walk five minutes to the station? It's likely you will park less than 50 feet from the station platform."

 

  If the Sharonville station looks like that, with free parking for about 20 cars, then quite frankly the ridership that this line will generate is not worth the effort.

 

I imagine the stations being something like the airport, though maybe not as big and without as many security hassles. You have lots of long term parking and short term parking, along with development around the station.

 

 

If we build the initial station facilities as they will probably be built, then it's a cheap piece of crap that won't inspire development. If you build them as you had pictured, then we're wasting taxpayers' money on something unproven.

 

I hear it both ways. What I do know is that for some people, no matter what gets built, it's going to suck. What else I know is that we're going to be able to build only what Ohio can afford to build.

"It is for those of us who are cheapskates and park on Kenner Street."

 

  You and me both, bro. Shame that the Dalton Street pedestrian entrance is fenced off, probably due to homeless sleeping on the covered stairway.

 

I always figured it was to "gently encourage" people to use the pay lot. 

 

As to the 3-C traffic and facilities, etc., it really doesn't need to be all that elaborate, especially at this point in time.  If you assume 500,000 passengers per year, that's 1,370 people per day.  Divide that only by the three major cities, and that's 457 passengers per city per day.  Even if everybody drove to the station, that's not a particularly huge parking lot.  It's not small, and it wouldn't be good for an urban area, but in an industrial suburb like Sharonville, it's very doable. 

Yet another negative article from Jame Nash:

 

http://www.dispatchpolitics.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/04/04/copy/by-any-count-3c-to-be-costly.html?adsec=politics&sid=101

 

 

By any count, 3C to be costly

Annual rail subsidy put at $13 million or $28 million

Sunday,  April 4, 2010 2:59 AM

By James Nash

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

This much is beyond dispute: Tickets alone will cover less than half the cost of running trains among Ohio's major cities, so taxpayers will be on the hook for millions of dollars in subsidies each year.

 

What's less clear is how much taxpayers will need to pony up to keep the trains running. Or where the money will come from. Or what would happen if the state decided to discontinue the subsidy.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

My response to Nash and Ben Marrison:

 

Dear Mr. Nash:

 

I am again dismayed by the inaccurate and one-sided reporting as shown in your latest article. The title of the article and substance of it appear to be more of an editorial than a fact-based story. If it's an editorial, then put it in the editorial section where it belongs. If it's an article, take the time to get the facts right.

 

Your story is riddled with errors and confusing information:

 

The wrong amount for the operating subsidy: $12-million instead of $17 million. Apparently you subtracted the assumed $5.3 million a year in "ancillary revenues" from advertising and food and drinks sold on rail cars. If that's so, then the state will not have to cover any of the operating costs in the first three years the service operates, since the ancillary revenues of $5.3 million would exceed the state share at $3 million!

 

There are three, not two Amtrak routes serving Ohio: Lake Shore Limited via Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland-Buffalo-Albany-New York/Boston, Capitol Limited: Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland-Pittsburgh-Washington DC, Cardinal: Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinnati-Charleston WV-Washington DC. The latter runs only three times a week, all operate in Ohio at night.

 

You do not differentiate between an Amtrak corridor (Chicago -Indy) and a state-supported corridor (Chicago-St. Louis). The former has had NO state support, while the latter has already seen millions in state support and is in line to get $1.2 billion in stimulus funding.

 

You quote math from the PEW Center, without explanation.

 

 

Oddly, we now see hired gun rail foe Randal O'Toole being trotted out, with no attempt to seek opinion from pro-rail organizations such as All Aboard Ohio, The Ohio Environmental Council, the National Association of Railroad Passengers, States for Passenger Rail or others. This is "fair and balanced" reporting? 

 

The article sets a negative tone with the first sentence and goes downhill from there:

 

 

"This much is beyond dispute: Tickets alone will cover less than half the cost of running trains among Ohio's major cities, so taxpayers will be on the hook for millions of dollars in subsidies each year."

 

This is an inflammatory statement. Amtrak's preliminary report says the total operating cost will be $29 million annually, with farebox revenues covering $12 million. That leaves $17 million, all but $3 million of which will be covered by the feds for the first three years. The $3 million is to come from existing sources, such as the ODOT Blue Sign program.

 

The $3 million is state costs could well be covered by state income taxes on the wages of the approximately 400 jobs which will be directly created by the 3-C program. Then there are actual experiences in other states, which have not been brought up in this or other articles you have written.

 

These show that passenger trains fostered "ripple effect" economic development near train stations. This has been the case in Maine, Michigan, North Carolina and elsewhere. Indeed, the tax revenue and economic activity could well exceed the state's operating investment, but we see no evidence that there has been any effort to check into that.

 

I'd suggest that you take the time to do the digging to get the facts. Don't take my word that passenger rail makes sense. Ask Jim Seney, a Republican, who headed up the Ohio Rail Development Commission and was the architect of the 110 mph Ohio Hub plan. He sees the value in this from an economic development standpoint. Talk to Gene Skoropowski, the former head of the California Joint Powers Sacrament-Oakland-San Jose "Capital Corridor." He will tell you that they experienced explosive growth when they added trains. Ask officials from Maine or North Carolina why they invested in rail.

 

There is a consistent one-sided negative slant to your articles. If you are so concerned about "money losing" passenger trains, where is your concern for "money-losing" highways? Did you know that Ohio subsidized its highways to the tune of $1.2 billion in 2007, according to the Federal Highway Administration? And that it pays a like amount every year? That has to be made up with general revenue funds, including property taxes, some of which comes from non-users. Did you know that the Highway Patrol's $200 million annual operating cost comes from general revenue funds, not user fees? Did you know the Federal Highway Trust Fund is insolvent and has to be propped up by general funds every year?

 

You seem to miss the fact that all forms of transportation are subsidized and that the least subsidized is passenger rail, yet you seem to keep swatting the rail flea while ignoring the highway elephant. How about a little objectivity? We need all forms of transportation and that's not news. Our competitors in other states and around the world know this and that's why they continue to invest while we dither.

 

Your lack of objectivity is appalling and reflects poorly on not only yourself, but your employer as well. We deserve better from "Ohio's Greatest Home Newspaper."

 

Sincerely,

 

I think it's evident that there is an organized operation underway to kill 3-C. The media is being fed a series of anti-rail talking points and they are buying them. Reporters are taking anti viewpoints verbatim and reporting them as fact, without taking the time to fact check or get the pro side of the issue.

 

This is either lazy journalism or a deliberate attempt to kill 3-C. Or both. Whatever the cause, we've seen a succession of stories with a decidedly anti-rail slant. This can't be coincidental. On top of that, every time a story comes out with these negative talking points, right wingers and Tea Party types pile on.

 

Under those circumstances, the average citizen might just say: "Oh well, it's nice idea, but it doesn't look like it works." 3-C is being defined as an issue by its foes, aided and abetted by a media that appears to be in cahoots with them.

 

This will not be easy.

On the other hand, Jim Seney is right: The Strickland administration is doing an abysmal job of not only defending the plan against critics, but also of being proactive and promoting the plan. Where are the Democrats on this? Are there any elected Democrats in Ohio beating the drum for rail? There surely are some, but they're not very visible or coehsive.

On the other hand, Jim Seney is right: The Strickland administration is doing an abysmal job of not only defending the plan against critics, but also of being proactive and promoting the plan. Where are the Democrats on this? Are there any elected Democrats in Ohio beating the drum for rail? There surely are some, but they're not very visible or coehsive.

 

That's a good point. Where ARE the Democrats??? :wtf:

Or supportive Republicans. There must be some of those, too, in addition to Seney and former Rep. Gene Krebs. Basically, there is NOBODY from state government speaking up about this other than ODOT and ORDC.

I have been wondering where the public support for 3-C has been for months. KJP seems pretty vocal and others on this forum have written to reporters and such, but I want to know where the politicians who support this are....crickets?

 

  Not sure that there are any real political proponents, other than our president. There are some Republicans who are attacking it as a pet project of President Obama, but overall it doesn't seem like anyone really cares except KJP.

Nice try to isolate me. That's pretty insulting to the many people here who do care. I may be one of the most vocal, but I don't have a monopoly on caring. Here's another who does...

__________

 

Working on the railroad

Start with a $25 million investment in information

By Michael Douglas

Beacon Journal editorial page editor

Published on Sunday, Apr 04, 2010

 

Maggie Ostrowski stuck to the talking points. The spokeswoman for Bill Harris, the Senate president, explained to the Associated Press last week: ''Senate Republicans' idea is to be fiscally responsible with an enormous amount of taxpayer money.''

 

The exact subject?

 

Well, it could have been anything, actually.

 

Republicans at the Statehouse think they have a winning message, and they appear eager to deliver the words whenever they can. They look at the federal bailouts, the massive deficits, the projected spending on health care, plus the prospect of a whopping shortfall for the next state budget, and they conclude: You can't talk enough about fiscal discipline.

 

Remember the effort last year to close an $851-million hole in the state budget? Harris and friends appeared in no hurry to reach an agreement. All the more time to talk about their determination to act responsibly.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.ohio.com/editorial/commentary/89861557.html

 

   Not sure that there are any real political proponents, other than our president. There are some Republicans who are attacking it as a pet project of President Obama, but overall it doesn't seem like anyone really cares except KJP.

 

There are PLENTY of us who care, including myself, right KJP?.  :wink:

Already posted the ABJ piece, Nooz. This hasn't been posted, though, even though there's nothing really new in it......

 

$400M for rail plan could be rejected

3 Republicans may block the state’s passenger train plan, which includes area stops.

 

By Jim DeBrosse, Staff Writer

Updated 11:12 PM Sunday, April 4, 2010

Three Republican votes on the state controlling board may block Ohio’s plans for passenger rail service and return $400 million in stimulus money for the project to the federal government.

 

This week, Ohio Senate Majority Leader Jon Husted, R-Kettering, said the likelihood that Gov. Ted Strickland’s administration will get one of the three GOP votes needed to secure the federal rail funds “is less than 50 percent.”

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/ohio-news/-400m-for-rail-plan-could-be-rejected-636196.html?cxntnid=dlh-040510

That is really unfortunate. KJP, are any of the other states who were granted funds for high speed rail going through similar roadblocks?

There is some griping here and there with Wisconsin seeing perhaps the greatest contention. Not so coincidentally there is also a Democratic governor facing re-election there. But they don't have to get GOP approvals from a controlling board to spend the money so their stimulus-funded Milwaukee-Madison project will happen.

This has to be one of the most absurd bouts of political "drama" i've seen in my relatively young 33 years of life.  I mean if you even want to PRETEND to be unbiassed and "just doing your job", I can't think of a single reason you could possibly be against at the minimum approving the 25m for environmental studies and engineering.  If you really want answers to your "questions", this will give them to you.  It costs the state nothing.  It does not require you to proceed with the project... it... just... gives... you... answers.  At the bare minimum even if after these answers you believe it's not "fiscally prudent" to proceed (which I personally find perplexing, but that's just my opinion), I mean, if nothing else you've mapped out a specific plan for what needs to be done, how exactly it will happen, and exactly how much it will cost.  Seriously, if you want to present yourself as anything other than a political obstructionist, you have no choice but to spend the money on the environmental and engineering study.  This is insanity.

Well put, McCleveland.  Send that exact message to your state senators and reps as soon as you can.

 

 

A very well done op-ed blog post on Progressive Railroading's website.... make sure you also read about the author's background as a railroader (also linkable below)

 

ODOT Vs. Ideology

by Garl B. Latham

 

I suppose the danger always exists. A simple advocate develops into a "true believer," then, taking the plunge, finally becomes an ideologue.

 

By remaining aware of that possibility, perhaps I'll escape such a fate. Besides, I enjoy my cognitive, volitional, creative abilities!

 

These matters recently came to mind as I considered my knee-jerk responses to ideology in action: the ongoing fight by some against Ohio's Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati "3C" passenger train proposal and the millions of stimulus dollars that plan will consume.

 

 

Full post at: http://myprogressiverailroading.com/blogs/gblatham/archive/2010/03/31/odot-versus-ideology.aspx

That is really unfortunate. KJP, are any of the other states who were granted funds for high speed rail going through similar roadblocks?

 

The problem is that most of the other ARRA HSR project funds were either given to areas which sought to improve existing service, meaning that people knew what they were getting and wanted more and better of it, or in areas where the need (demand) for alternatives to automobile transportation were obvious. Ohio's problems were that 1) there was nothing to compare the planned service to and 2) not enough people believe that the demand will be there once the service is started.

 

It is hard to sell a vision when so many people fail to realize how it can help them.

 

Oh, I think some of them realize the benefits alright, but they are so locked into their ideology they cannot bring themselves to get beyond it.  You can surround them with the facts and eveidence of the benefits, but it doesn't matter.  They oppose for the sake of opposing.

 

  Former governor James Rhodes said "Never build anything underground. You won't get credit for it."

 

  Politicians are short-term leaders, even more so with term limits. Can you blame them for opposing something that won't be running for several years, and won't be fully developed for at least 20 years?

 

^yes.

^yes.  I can blame them too.  That means they have no desire to look ahead and consider what will benefit the state in the long run. 

 

 

The Dayton Daily News has two stories on this:

 

This one has a good positive spin in the opening parags:

 

Legislative Panel may put brakes on passenger rail

 

One GOP member must vote for plan for it to move ahead.

 

RIVERSIDE — Excitement has been building for months about the planned train station across the street from the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force and within walking distance of the Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright Patterson Air Force Base....

 

....But plans for the 3-C Corridor rail service could soon come to a screeching halt if Republican members of the state controlling board vote to turn down the $400 million awarded to the project from President Obama’s federal stimulus program.

 

...the closing parags quote one Ken Pendergast:

 

 

Plan a step toward high-speed rail

 

“We call it learning to walk before you run,” said Ken Prendergast, executive director of All Aboard Ohio, a grassroots advocacy organization. “Ohio hasn’t had train service in 40 years.”

 

The other DDN article (followed by

 

$400M for rail plan could be rejected

3 Republicans may block the state’s passenger train plan, which includes area stops.

 

...followed by 288 mostly tea-party-esque comments.  With some rebuttals. Seems that opposing this has become a right wing cause.  Amazing. 

 

So, which state would you like to see get the $400B if the Ohio GOP reject the money?  I vote for upgrading the Chicago/Milwaulkee corridor.

 

 

 

Politicians are short-term leaders, even more so with term limits. Can you blame them for opposing something that won't be running for several years, and won't be fully developed for at least 20 years?

 

This comment leaves me flabbergasted and speechless.

Good column from the Retropolitan blog (Columbus)...poking at the Dems as well for their silence....

 

April 5, 2010

Everybody’s off track

I’m not sure Ohio deserves a railroad.

 

There’s a great need for a rail system, of course, as Ohioans’ choice is limited to the same old highways that are too expensive to maintain, and an increasingly unreliable airline system. It’s bad enough that Ohio’s political leaders have consistently turned their back on the need for a rail option. But things have gotten worse.

 

Full blog post at:

http://bwilli910.wordpress.com/

 

The other DDN article (followed by

 

$400M for rail plan could be rejected

3 Republicans may block the state’s passenger train plan, which includes area stops.

 

...followed by 288 mostly tea-party-esque comments. With some rebuttals. Seems that opposing this has become a right wing cause. Amazing.

 

So, which state would you like to see get the $400B if the Ohio GOP reject the money? I vote for upgrading the Chicago/Milwaulkee corridor.

 

 

 

 

Hell NO!!! This isn't over yet and if we DID lose 3-C I'd want us to do something between Chicago and Porter IN to increase service Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland.

Politicians are short-term leaders, even more so with term limits. Can you blame them for opposing something that won't be running for several years, and won't be fully developed for at least 20 years?

 

This comment leaves me flabbergasted and speechless.

 

Pretty sure 8th & State wasn't endorsing it, just describing it.

Hell NO!!! This isn't over yet and if we DID lose 3-C I'd want us to do something between Chicago and Porter IN to increase service Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland.

 

Has Indiana shown any interest in upgrading passenger rail service, aside from that transportation district supporting the South Shore?  State chauvinism aside, my vote is to spend the money on states that have shown a political and financial committment to rail service. 

 

If the GOP rejects this $400B it proves Ohio is not one of those states willing to politically support passenger rail.  And, sorry to say, this will be national news, too (I'll bet).  The news will be the GOP handing a defeat to Obama and the Democrats and yet another signal that Ohio is a backward, regressive place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Ohio doesn't want the money, I can think of a state just to your north with many filled -to-capacity trains that could use MORE capacity and even HIGHER speeds. 

 

Ohio is building the US-24 freeway between Toledo and the Indiana state line.  You will continue to pay to maintain it until the next ice-age.  Apparently that is okay with the Republican leadership.

 

Ohioans won't have trains to ride but at least the Republicans will have taught the Governor a lesson!  Isn't it nice that they're looking out for you?

Retropolitan needs to take off that Chicago skyline banner.  I thought it was Chi-based at first.  But good comment about the lack of political will to do this, the timid Democrats yet again caving in and not pushing back.  At least we are seeing support from the Dayton Daily News down here in Dayton, thuogh it is a Dayton politician, Husted, who is part of the opposition.

 

 

 

 

If the GOP stops the $400 million investment in rail from happening, expect this state to lose more young people to states that aren't "backward and regressive." If I didn't love Cleveland as much as I do (and if Cleveland didn't have the rapid lines), I would abandon any attempt to stay in Ohio and look for opportunities in a state that values passenger rail/public transit.

I really believe Bill Harris is merely playing a shell game on we  the advocates and that, frankly, no explanation will be "reasonable" to him or his right-wing cronies.  Compromise is a zero sum game to Republicans like this and their Tea Party (tea baggers to me) zealots.  This is merely a local version of what's being played out nationally, where obstructionist Republicans are lying and cheating and conniving hypocritically (in every way) in an all-or-nothing strategy to disgrace and destroy Democrats any way they can -- Obama, nationally, Gov Ted, locally and, also, any fellow Republican (John McCain, Charlie Crist.  I don't know much about Harris (nor do I really want to), but you've got to believe Ashland, and other areas like it, are as solidly Red to the extent that, no matter how understandably destructive they are to the public and the economy -- which would be palpable if they kill the 3-C project -- that it doesn't matter so long as the Democrats are stopped... period!  James Seney, one of those way-to-few (and disappearing at warp speed) wise, reasonable Republicans, are viewed as sell-outs and irrelevant to the larger cause of that wacko, tea-bagger "You Lie!"/"Hell no!" fringe that's running amok in our legislatures and, really, threatening the security and civility of us all... People gnashing their teeth expressing their logical illogic of the Harris’ out there are, in many ways (and don’t think I don’t feel you), wasting your breath…  Similar gorilla tactics (no, I don’t mean violence) is the only way to counter this nonsense, but at the moment, neither I nor my friends on the ground in Columbus, have figured it out.  …  But stay tuned.

 

Yeah, I know a lot of people here don't want to hear such partisan political talk, but that's the way it is right now... deal with it!

 

Hell NO!!! This isn't over yet and if we DID lose 3-C I'd want us to do something between Chicago and Porter IN to increase service Chicago-Toledo-Cleveland.

 

Has Indiana shown any interest in upgrading passenger rail service, aside from that transportation district supporting the South Shore?  State chauvinism aside, my vote is to spend the money on states that have shown a political and financial committment to rail service. 

 

If the GOP rejects this $400B it proves Ohio is not one of those states willing to politically support passenger rail.  And, sorry to say, this will be national news, too (I'll bet).  The news will be the GOP handing a defeat to Obama and the Democrats and yet another signal that Ohio is a backward, regressive place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we do Chicago-Porter, we also plug right into the Chicago-Detroit corridor. Michigan is a state that HAS supported trains for years. Let's reward them. Point well taken about Ohio, however.

If the GOP stops the $400 million investment in rail from happening, expect this state to lose more young people to states that aren't "backward and regressive." If I didn't love Cleveland as much as I do (and if Cleveland didn't have the rapid lines), I would abandon any attempt to stay in Ohio and look for opportunities in a state that values passenger rail/public transit.

 

And some not-so-young people, too!!! :wink:

I really believe Bill Harris is merely playing a shell game on we the advocates and that, frankly, no explanation will be "reasonable" to him or his right-wing cronies. Compromise is a zero sum game to Republicans like this and their Tea Party (tea baggers to me) zealots. This is merely a local version of what's being played out nationally, where obstructionist Republicans are lying and cheating and conniving hypocritically (in every way) in an all-or-nothing strategy to disgrace and destroy Democrats any way they can -- Obama, nationally, Gov Ted, locally and, also, any fellow Republican (John McCain, Charlie Crist. I don't know much about Harris (nor do I really want to), but you've got to believe Ashland, and other areas like it, are as solidly Red to the extent that, no matter how understandably destructive they are to the public and the economy -- which would be palpable if they kill the 3-C project -- that it doesn't matter so long as the Democrats are stopped... period! James Seney, one of those way-to-few (and disappearing at warp speed) wise, reasonable Republicans, are viewed as sell-outs and irrelevant to the larger cause of that wacko, tea-bagger "You Lie!"/"Hell no!" fringe that's running amok in our legislatures and, really, threatening the security and civility of us all... People gnashing their teeth expressing their logical illogic of the Harris out there are, in many ways (and dont think I dont feel you), wasting your breath Similar gorilla tactics (no, I dont mean violence) is the only way to counter this nonsense, but at the moment, neither I nor my friends on the ground in Columbus, have figured it out. But stay tuned.

 

Yeah, I know a lot of people here don't want to hear such partisan political talk, but that's the way it is right now... deal with it!

 

 

Well put.

I really believe Bill Harris is merely playing a shell game on we the advocates and that, frankly, no explanation will be "reasonable" to him or his right-wing cronies.

I don't know how many of you know this, but Senator Bill Harris owns a car dealership in Ashland. So, the 3C rail project may go against his special interests.

^ Made all the more ironic, since the bulk of what the auto industry produces moves by train. But you make a good point Andrew.

That is really unfortunate. KJP, are any of the other states who were granted funds for high speed rail going through similar roadblocks?

 

Since Wisconsin doesn't require a 5-2 supermajority vote to OK rail spending by their controlling board, a legislator is trying to create a roadblock....

 

 

Thursday, April 01, 2010

Wisconsin legislator introduces legislation to kill Milwaukee-Madison project

 

Wisconsin Rep. Brett Davis has proposed legislation that would prohibit the state government from spending any state, federal or local dollars for costs related to the Milwaukee-to-Madison high-speed rail project. In January, the Obama Administration announced it would award an $823 million grant to Wisconsin to make improvements along the route to enable high-speed operations.

 

If the legislation passes, it would require the full legislature to pass a separate bill that specifically authorizes the Milwaukee-Madison line.

 

A Republican running for lieutenant governor, Davis also has launched a Web site, www.stopthetrainwisconsin.org, which outlines why he believes the high-speed system doesn’t make sense for Wisconsin.

 

READ MORE AT:

 

http://www.hsrupdates.com/news/details/Wisconsin-legislator-introduces-

legislation-to-kill-MilwaukeeMadison-project--339

Funny how that website shows a comfortable looking row of train seats followed by a picture of bumper to bumper car traffic

This will not happen, although it will be nice to have, it is too expensive and not practical. If high speed could be done from the beginning it could have a chance but no one is going to take a 6 hour ride from Cinci to Cleveland.

 

If you really want to ride a train that bad, you can go to the passenger dinner train at Barbeque Revue.

^ *yawn*

 

Have you even bothered to read the last few pages of this thread?

This will not happen, although it will be nice to have, it is too expensive and not practical. If high speed could be done from the beginning it could have a chance but no one is going to take a 6 hour ride from Cinci to Cleveland.

 

In other words, the experience of the entire rest of the country is meaningless if it doesn't agree with your opinion. Or maybe Ohio is someplace where the experience of others doesn't apply.

 

You know, if Ohio were such a model of economic success without intercity rail, I might be willing to question why do we even need it (at lest until gas prices rise above $10/gallon by which time it will be too expensive to build). But when you are scraping the bottom of the economic barrel it is not the time to argue that you are doing everything right.