July 14, 201014 yr Derailed Ohio has money for intercity trains — and few who agree on what to do with it by Anastasia Pantsios Cleveland Scene IMAGINE GETTING ON A TRAIN in Cleveland and arriving in Columbus for a meeting — relaxed, rested, and prepped for your presentation. Or your football game, or your night on the town. No more staring through the windshield at long, dreary stretches of I-71 in Richland and Morrow County. That's already a reality for travelers from Boston to Washington, D.C. There, an Amtrak passenger train travels the so-called Northeast Corridor, delivering riders to New York, Philadelphia, and Baltimore at the same average speed as driving — if you weren't sitting in traffic — and occasionally reaching speeds up to 150 mph. The service debuted in December 2000 and has proved popular in the densely populated region, where driving and parking are perpetual challenges. Full story at: http://www.clevescene.com/cleveland/derailed/Content?oid=1948882
July 14, 201014 yr This isnt to upset the other communities on the line; but more to address the criticism of the line being too slow for people to ride the whole way; i would assume this would knock off at least 30-45 minutes from the total route time. The station stops along the route aren't the problem. As a rule of thumb, each station stop for an intercity passenger rail service adds about 5 minutes to the overall schedule. These are the initial stations: Cincinnati Sharonville Dayton Riverside Springfield Columbus SW Cleveland Cleveland Thus, stopping at only Cleveland, Dayton, Columbus and Cleveland would save only about 20 minutes. But running more trains offers more opportunities to offer express (limited stop) train schedules during peak travel times. But that's probably something for a later phase of development. What would save much more time would be to ease the transitions from each segment owned by different rail companies. There are five transition points (including shared trackage segments in downtown Columbus and downtown Dayton), with each one adding up to 10 minutes to the 3C train schedule. These can be addressed, but it will require capital improvements in more advanced traffic control systems. The initial schedule is likely to be about 5 hours, 45 minutes from downtown Cincinnati to downtown Cleveland. Addressing the transitions could significantly reduce that. Building passenger-only track alignments through busy freight traffic junctions (Rockport Yard to Berea in Cleveland, Greenwich, Downtown Columbus-Scioto Tower, Downtown Dayton, Evendale-Cincinnati Union Terminal, etc) woud likely make the greatest impact on travel time savings -- even more than boosting the top speed from 79 mph to 90 mph or even 110 mph through the open country between these junctions. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 14, 201014 yr ^When you say each stop adds about 5 minutes, does that include the time lost because of deceleration and acceleration? Its a lot faster to roll through at 50mph than to slow down, stop for 5 minutes, and then get back up to 50 mph. Not sure on actual speeds allowed through stops, just pulled 50mph out of my rear.
July 14, 201014 yr Yes, that also includes deceleration and acceleration. A passenger train can pass through a station at track speed, but that track speed depends on local conditions that don't necessarily have anything to do with the presence of a train station (ie: populous area with lots of street crossings, near a sharp curve, etc). Track speed through a station can be anything... 50, 79, 90, 110, 150 etc etc. This is in Kingston, Rhode Island where the track speed through the station is 150 mph, even when its platform is jammed with commuters waiting for the commuter train following this 150 mph Acela Express.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 201014 yr Rail service revitalizes towns with stops, Maine expert says By Jessica Holbrook, Staff Writer 9:04 PM Wednesday, July 14, 2010 A passenger rail line through the Northeast U.S. has revitalized towns and created jobs, but relies on state funding to keep rolling, a rail service expert told a Springfield audience Wednesday, July 14. That summary was the message for Springfield city officials at a forum Wednesday held to drum up support for a passenger rail system in Ohio. Patricia Quinn, director of the Downeaster rail service — a passenger rail line between Boston and Portland, Maine — said the train system has benefited her region. READ MORE AT: http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/springfield-news/rail-service-revitalizes-towns-with-stops-maine-expert-says-811918.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 201014 yr The debate via the papers in getting a bit ugly... 3C Rail debate focuses on costs, jobs BY KENT MALLETT • CentralOhio.com • July 15, 2010 COLUMBUS -- A Democratic U.S. senator said Wednesday that Republicans have their heads in the sand in opposing passenger rail in Ohio, but a Republican state lawmaker said rail proponents have their heads in the clouds. The proposed 3C statewide rail project would use $400 million in federal stimulus money toward connecting Ohio's major cities on a 256-mile route with 79 mph passenger trains, according to project advocates. State officials anticipate the train service would generate $111 million in consumer spending and create at least 8,000 jobs. READ MORE AT: http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20100715/NEWS01/7150301/1002/3C-Rail-debate-focuses-on-costs--jobs "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 15, 201014 yr Interesting. The State of Washington gave Boeing about 3 billion dollars in tax credits for about 1200 jobs in Everrett Washington for the 787 factory.
July 16, 201014 yr State wants passenger trains to Toledo and Pittsburgh, too Engineering firm will study new routes Thursday, July 15, 2010 04:21 PM By Matt Leingang ASSOCIATED PRESS COLUMBUS -- Toledo and Pittsburgh are among the next cities that Ohio wants to connect as part of its developing passenger rail project, state transportation officials said today. The state has signed a $7.8 million contract with an engineering firm to study new routes that would branch off from Ohio's marquee federal stimulus project -- a $400 million rail system with 79 mph trains connecting Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati beginning in 2012. The contract with AECOM, a Los Angeles-based company that has worked on California's planned high-speed rail system, will determine routes for a future 110 mph service on four corridors: Detroit-Toledo-Cleveland, Cleveland-Pittsburgh, Toledo-Columbus and Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati. full story at: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/07/15/ohio-rail-toledo-pittsburgh.html?sid=101
July 16, 201014 yr Article published July 16, 2010 Ohio eyes phase 2 of rail plan By DAVID PATCH and JIM PROVANCE BLADE STAFF WRITERS COLUMBUS - While passenger trains are still at least two years away from running on a "Three-C" corridor for which Ohio has obtained federal stimulus money, state officials have begun looking at what they hope will be a second phase, which would include two Toledo routes. The Ohio Rail Development Commission has signed a $7.8 million contract with AECOM, a Los Angeles engineering firm, to assess what would need to be done to institute 110-mph passenger trains on four routes, including Detroit-Toledo-Cleveland and Toledo-Columbus. The study also would address a Cleveland-Pittsburgh route and upgrading the Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati route, over which trains are planned to run at a top speed of 79 mph to 110 mph. Full story at: http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100716/NEWS16/7160375
July 16, 201014 yr East Cost passenger rail tracks success By Kelly McBride • [email protected] • July 15, 2010 The director of an East Coast passenger rail service explained the impact of a similar project on the Boston area to a crowd of about 50 during a Sharonville Chamber of Commerce luncheon. About 50 people gathered in Sharonville to hear Patricia Quinn, director of the Downeaster rail service, which is similar to the proposed service in Ohio. "We are providing a seamless transportation option," Quinn said of the system that runs five daily round trips between Portland, Maine and Boston. READ MORE AT: http://communitypress.cincinnati.com/article/20100715/NEWS/7150355/1001/NEWS/East-Cost-passenger-rail-tracks-success "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 16, 201014 yr Ohio eyes phase 2 of rail plan By DAVID PATCH and JIM PROVANCE BLADE STAFF WRITERS COLUMBUS - While passenger trains are still at least two years away from running on a "Three-C" corridor for which Ohio has obtained federal stimulus money, state officials have begun looking at what they hope will be a second phase, which would include two Toledo routes. The Ohio Rail Development Commission has signed a $7.8 million contract with AECOM, a Los Angeles engineering firm, to assess what would need to be done to institute 110-mph passenger trains on four routes, including Detroit-Toledo-Cleveland and Toledo-Columbus. The study also would address a Cleveland-Pittsburgh route and upgrading the Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati route, over which trains are planned to run at a top speed of 79 mph to 110 mph. "The Ohio Hub plan is the long-term, high-speed rail future plan that Ohio has been advancing," said Scott Varner, a spokesman at Ohio Department of Transportation headquarters in Columbus. "This is the next step in that." http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100716/NEWS16/7160375
July 16, 201014 yr ^ Already posted at the Ohio Hub / Midwest Regional Rail thread.... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1414.0.html
July 17, 201014 yr Yes, that also includes deceleration and acceleration. A passenger train can pass through a station at track speed, but that track speed depends on local conditions that don't necessarily have anything to do with the presence of a train station (ie: populous area with lots of street crossings, near a sharp curve, etc). Track speed through a station can be anything... 50, 79, 90, 110, 150 etc etc. This is in Kingston, Rhode Island where the track speed through the station is 150 mph, even when its platform is jammed with commuters waiting for the commuter train following this 150 mph Acela Express.... Thats actually Mansfield, Massachusetts.
July 18, 201014 yr I wondered why I didn't see an overhead walkway! I figured the photographer was directly below it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 19, 201014 yr Nice Letter to the Editor in today's P-D.... Trains outperform freeways, airports on many fronts Published: Monday, July 19, 2010, 4:01 AM Other Voices To read the July 11 letters to the editor about the 3C rail corridor, you would think that readers are against any state help in transportation projects. So Cleveland should pay the entire cost of the new Inner Belt Bridge, and pay the total costs for the air traffic controllers and the facilities at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport. Really? Are Clevelanders delighted to have to sit around the airport two hours before a flight, going through strip-search security checks, paying extra for each bag they want to take along, just to be packed in a plane like sardines? Do they enjoy driving on a freeway clogged not only with lots of cars, but also with hundreds of trucks emitting diesel fumes? Full letter at: http://blog.cleveland.com/letters/2010/07/trains_beat_freeways_airports.html
July 21, 201014 yr That will come when the final Environmental Impact Statement is complted for the 3C corridor....about 15 to 18 months....at which point ORDC / ODOT will have to go back to the State Controlling Board for the OK to spend the remainder of the $400-million on construction, equipment purchase and the selction of an operator.
July 21, 201014 yr That will come when the final Environmental Impact Statement is complted for the 3C corridor....about 15 to 18 months....at which point ORDC / ODOT will have to go back to the State Controlling Board for the OK to spend the remainder of the $400-million on construction, equipment purchase and the selction of an operator. Sounds good, thanks. Here's a forum on the 3C&D with the director of the Downeaster and others. Video from Dayton City Hall:
July 21, 201014 yr A new blog site based out of Athens, ohio by a local rail advocate, Todd Bastin. http://civilizedtransportation.blogspot.com/2010/07/whom-to-contact-to-save-ohio.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 21, 201014 yr Union Pacific, Illinois Agree on High-Speed Passenger Rail Plan July 20, 2010, 3:00 PM EDT (Bloomberg) -- Union Pacific Corp., the biggest U.S. railroad, and the state of Illinois agreed to begin construction in September of the first U.S. high-speed passenger rail route created with economic-stimulus money. The company was among freight railroads operating in the U.S. that balked at May guidance from the U.S. Federal Railroad Administration that spelled out relationships between them and operators of high-speed passenger service on their tracks. Full story at: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-07-20/union-pacific-illinois-agree-on-high-speed-passenger-rail-plan.html
July 22, 201014 yr Toledo Blade editorial>>>> Article published July 22, 2010 Rail plan shows progress News that state transportation officials want to broaden a developing passenger rail project to include Toledo, Detroit, and Pittsburgh is welcome in northwest Ohio. But any enthusiasm for faster rail connections between cities is tempered by recognition of the effort that will be required to make it happen. The state has signed a $7.8 million contract with an engineering firm to study new routes that could branch off from Ohio's high-speed rail project connecting Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, and Cincinnati. That $400 million rail system, subsidized by federal stimulus money, is targeted to begin service in 2012. Full editorial at: http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100722/OPINION02/307229978
July 23, 201014 yr Johio, I answered your question here.... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,12576.msg500837.html#msg500837 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 23, 201014 yr Can someone sum up whats going on with this for me. I haven't been paying close attention to it lately. Thanks!
July 23, 201014 yr The State Controlling Board approved ODOT seeking a contract with Parsons Brinckerhoff to conduct the $25 million final engineering and Tier II environmental assessment of 3C "Quick Start." Similarly large and complicated engineering contracts, including their scope of work, appear to take about 4-8 months of negotiating and writing. So we're probably looking at the end of the year before the engineering work gets going. The engineering will probably take about a year. In the meantime, if you and others here are at a university in the 3C Corridor and want to help spread the word about 3C, let me know. Drop me a note on PM. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 26, 201014 yr I-70/71 redesign cost shows value of rail Monday, July 26, 2010 02:52 AM Reconstruction of the I-70/71 split Downtown illustrates why passenger-rail service is so important for Ohio. Enlarging this 3-mile stretch of roadway is slated to cost about $1.5 billion and may further erode the environment for nearby residents. Full letter to the editor at: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/07/26/i-7071-redesign-cost-shows-value-of-rail.html?sid=101
July 28, 201014 yr Here's a link to Patricia Quinn's July 15th interview on Cincinnati's WLW. I haven't had time to listen to it yet, but as I understand it, she did very well handling all of the curve balls the host, William Cunningham, tried to throw at her: http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/station_content/1209/100715_2_WILLIE_1279221135_20459.mp3
August 3, 201014 yr Ohio Hub Advances as Passenger Rail Connections to Toledo and Pittsburgh Studied The Transport Politic by Yonah Freemark Following through on a years-long promise to include fourth-city Toledo in the next phase of rail investment in Ohio, the administration of Governor Ted Strickland has announced the awarding to an engineering firm an $8 million study of future intercity routes that would connect the Lake Erie city to the rest of the Buckeye State. A line into Pittsburgh is also up for evaluation. Because of its geographic position between the Chicago-based Midwest rail network and that of the East Coast focused in New York, Ohio could serve as an essential link in a national rail network if the state makes the right investments. Full story at: http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2010/07/19/ohio-hub-advances-as-passenger-rail-connections-to-toledo-and-pittsburgh-studied/
August 3, 201014 yr There's something going on at the former PRR Undercliff Yard in Cincinnati. I doubt that it has to do with the 3-C line, but the site near the intersection of the OASIS line and Beechmont Avenue was a possible station site.
August 4, 201014 yr What's a-happening? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 4, 201014 yr Not sure. There's a developer interested in several acres that was formerly part of the Undercliff yard. I have no idea what kind of development is proposed or whether it's related to the 3-C. Neither do I know the exact plans for the 3-C line. But I think that the particular spot could have been a candidate for the Lunken Airport station.
August 5, 201014 yr John Kasich, Yvette McGee Brown differ on rail plan at candidate forum Published: Wednesday, August 04, 2010, 7:20 PM Updated: Wednesday, August 04, 2010, 11:02 PM Reginald Fields, The Plain Dealer COLUMBUS, Ohio — You've heard about that passenger train linking Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati that Ohio leaders have debated this year. Well, forget about it, if John Kasich is elected governor. The Republican hopeful on Wednesday spoke at a candidate forum hosted by six Ohio economic and development associations eager to hear the gubernatorial candidates' views on issues such as infrastructure and transportation. Full story at: http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/08/john_kasich_yvette_mcgee_brown.html
August 5, 201014 yr LaHood downplays Ohio GOP attack on passenger rail By MATT LEINGANG, The Associated Press 12:19 PM Thursday, August 5, 2010 COLUMBUS, Ohio — U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is downplaying threats by Ohio Republicans to stop the state's passenger rail project. LaHood says the $400 million stimulus project to connect Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati is an important part of a national rail program. He compared it to the development of the federal highway system, which took five decades to complete and survived numerous elections. Full story at: http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/ohio-news/lahood-downplays-ohio-gop-attack-on-passenger-rail-846020.html
August 5, 201014 yr I'm am sick to my stomach with some of John Kasich's quotes... "I don't support a 39 mph train, OK? It's not going to happen if I'm governor, OK?" Kasich said to reporters gathered for the occasion, according to published reports. "If you want the train, I hope you can get over that and vote for me anyway. But you're not going to get that train." http://www.examiner.com/x-23537-Columbus-Government-Examiner~y2010m8d5-Ohio-3C-passenger-rail-plan-creates-sharp-divide-between-Strickland-Kasich
August 5, 201014 yr His quote shows off his arrogance..... as if he's saying "If you like passenger rail, too bad.....but vote for me anyway." But his quote should also serve as a rallying cry for those who want passenger trains in Ohio. John Kasich does not want any of us to have a choice of how we can travel.
August 5, 201014 yr I'm am sick to my stomach with some of John Kasich's quotes... "I don't support a 39 mph train, OK? It's not going to happen if I'm governor, OK?" Kasich said to reporters gathered for the occasion, according to published reports. "If you want the train, I hope you can get over that and vote for me anyway. But you're not going to get that train." http://www.examiner.com/x-23537-Columbus-Government-Examiner~y2010m8d5-Ohio-3C-passenger-rail-plan-creates-sharp-divide-between-Strickland-Kasich Unfortunately, the author of that article in the Columbus Examiner is every bit as anti-passenger rail as Kasich.
August 6, 201014 yr Kasich isn't being a conservative. He's merely kowtowing to his preferred ODOT director: the narrow-minded president of Ohio's roadbuilders association. A basic problem with the president of the Ohio Contractors Association is that he doesn't know diddely squat about rail or transit. If he did, he would be helping his members grab as much of this rail and transit construction business as possible. Instead, they want things just as they've been for the past 60-80 years: growing amounts of driving, growing gas tax revenues and growing road construction projects. None of that is happening except the last one, which is why the highway trust fund is bankrupt. That's no one's fault except the narrow-minded, voracious road builders and their puppets like Kasich. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 6, 201014 yr The President of the OCA was also a member of the Governor's 20th Century Transportation Task Force in 2008-2009... and was a constant impediment in the process of the Task Force's efforts to change transportation policy in Ohio. He fought every attempt to find a better way to fund and develop walkable neighborhoods, bicycle paths, mass transit and rail.
August 6, 201014 yr A more detailed version of an earlier AP story... LaHood stands by Ohio rail project Kasich vows to stop plans if elected Friday, August 6, 2010 02:54 AM By Matt Leingang ASSOCIATED PRESS Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Ohio's train routes will be part of a national system.U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood downplayed threats yesterday by Ohio Republicans to stop a high-profile passenger rail project if they take over state government in the November election. LaHood, a former Republican congressman from Illinois, said the $400 million stimulus project to connect Ohio's major cities is an important part of a national rail program, similar to the development of the federal highway system, which took five decades to complete and survived numerous elections. "The reason that Ohio is connected to an interstate system that runs all over America is because it was a national plan. Ohio will be connected (to rail)," LaHood said after meeting with construction workers to talk about the impact of the federal stimulus package. Full story at:http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/08/06/lahood-stands-by-ohio-rail-project.html?sid=101
August 6, 201014 yr I'm am sick to my stomach with some of John Kasich's quotes... "I don't support a 39 mph train, OK? It's not going to happen if I'm governor, OK?" Kasich said to reporters gathered for the occasion, according to published reports. "If you want the train, I hope you can get over that and vote for me anyway. But you're not going to get that train." http://www.examiner.com/x-23537-Columbus-Government-Examiner~y2010m8d5-Ohio-3C-passenger-rail-plan-creates-sharp-divide-between-Strickland-Kasich Uh.... yeah... he's officially not getting my vote.
August 6, 201014 yr I'm am sick to my stomach with some of John Kasich's quotes... "I don't support a 39 mph train, OK? It's not going to happen if I'm governor, OK?" Kasich said to reporters gathered for the occasion, according to published reports. "If you want the train, I hope you can get over that and vote for me anyway. But you're not going to get that train." http://www.examiner.com/x-23537-Columbus-Government-Examiner~y2010m8d5-Ohio-3C-passenger-rail-plan-creates-sharp-divide-between-Strickland-Kasich Uh.... yeah... he's officially not getting my vote. Hey, C'mon. He did say "I hope you can get over that and vote for me anyway" ;)
August 8, 201014 yr The President of the OCA was also a member of the Governor's 20th Century Transportation Task Force in 2008-2009... Now we have proof Ohio really IS behind the times!!! :lol:
August 8, 201014 yr Uh.... yeah... he's officially not getting my vote. Yep. The man doesn't want me to have any freedom of choice as to how I want to travel around Ohio. No way I'm voting for him either. The President of the OCA was also a member of the Governor's 20th Century Transportation Task Force in 2008-2009... and was a constant impediment in the process of the Task Force's efforts to change transportation policy in Ohio. He fought every attempt to find a better way to fund and develop walkable neighborhoods, bicycle paths, mass transit and rail. Someone needs to tell this to Matt Leingang at the AP.
August 8, 201014 yr The President of the OCA was also a member of the Governor's 20th Century Transportation Task Force in 2008-2009... Now we have proof Ohio really IS behind the times!!! :lol: Sorry...I should have said "21ST Century"....but yeah... the head of the OCA is just trying to get ready to party like it's 1999. :wink: :roll:
August 8, 201014 yr Kasich.... GOD help us! Oh wait... God is "Republican"...so I guess we will have to just accept it. Uhhh..eventual expatriating looks better each day.
August 8, 201014 yr Yes. All resistance is futile, so say the Republican Borg. When God execises his option and places Kasich in power to watch over us ne'er do wells, we will have to board the Amtrak train pod for new destinations. :roll:
August 9, 201014 yr Seriously, what is this idealogue (Kasich) going to have for an answer when oil starts spiking (again) and starts driving gasoline prices back up at the pump? Build more highways? Direct income taxes to subsidize low gasoline prices..... oh wait, he wants to do away with the state income tax...so that's out. Kasich does not deserve the vote of anyone who wants transportation options other than always having to drive. But let us not forget....there are a lot of seats up for grabs in the Ohio House and Senate....and we all need to be asking those candidates what their stance is on developing passenger rail. If the "D's" lose control of the House.... you can bet the 3C Quick Start will greatly delayed, if not derailed alogether. Make your votes count.
August 9, 201014 yr Been a long time since I have been on this forum. Miss it! I came across an article just a few days ago about Kasich and how he will refuse to let rail happen! Seriously? I love how in the article I read he was saying nobody will ride it and it will only go 39mph... it will average 39mph, AT FIRST, then once improvements are made, will speed up. If he is ignorant of this, then I we have a lot more to worry about than just not getting a rail line.
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