We are starting to veet off topic here.

 

Ah the Moderator gods are speaking... :-D

Peak oil and global warming ... (stay with me moderators -- this will be on-topic). It doesn't matter whether Kasich or the tea party or other national Republican leaders "believe" in them. What matters is that the rest of the industrialized world is actively re-tooling for a future that addresses peak oil and global warming, and the more we resist it in this country, the more irrelevent we become in a modern, global economy.

 

The rest of the world wants trains. We, in this country, with our once-vaunted industrial might, are essentially taking ourselves out of that market in our unwillingness to pursue rail in any meaningful way.

This was on Crain's blog. I haven't opened it because I get sick of reading this tripe and Scott Suttell is a jerk. Perhaps the NH paper isn't aware that Amtrak's Downeaster service ran at slower speeds than 3C will, and yet carries much more riders than was originally projected....

____________

 

EDITOR'S CHOICE -- SCOTT SUTTELL

New Hampshire newspaper loves Ohio's John Kasich

The Union Leader especially likes his stance against the 3C train.

http://e.ccialerts.com/a/hBM6s$CAJFIzoAJaUOuAVQ7JFFz/ccl84-1

The Union Leader and its owner are, and have been for years, the biggest right wingers in the nation.  Why is this a surprise or news.

I tried to talk up the new rail plan with the museum hosts at the Mad River and Nickel Plate RR museum in Bellevue, Ohio.  They seemed barely interested when I told them that I contacted "my legislators" to get the 3-C plan approved.

 

Meanwhile, there was a disconnected "anti-global warming" thesis written by some petro-hack sitting on the glass display case for our "information".

 

I know who those geezers voted for. 

 

Mercury on the brain

I tried to talk up the new rail plan with the museum hosts at the Mad River and Nickel Plate RR museum in Bellevue, Ohio.  They seemed barely interested when I told them that I contacted "my legislators" to get the 3-C plan approved.

 

Meanwhile, there was a disconnected "anti-global warming" thesis written by some petro-hack sitting on the glass display case for our "information".

 

I know who those geezers voted for. 

 

Mercury on the brain

 

A lot of railroad-museum folks only care about historic technology and statistics, and aren't very interested in modern railroading. The only way 3C could capture their attention would be to promise heavyweight full-service Pullmans behind double-headed PRR K4 Pacifics or NYC Hudsons. They still wouldn't buy a ticket but they'd jam every road and crossing, chasing and photographing the inaugural runs. Many of them are railfans, aka foamers, in the most pejorative sense.

^ What Robert said. I used to be active on a message board that deal primarily with the New York City subway system, and I quickly earned a lot of derision for being happy that the rusty, dilapidated "redbird" subway cars were finally being replaced with modern cars with smooth acceleration and braking, more comfortable suspension, and functioning air conditioning. You'd think I had mocked the pope or something.

 

I certainly appreciate the vintage stuff, and I've even helped restore and operate a few vintage streetcars and subway trains at various museums, but that doesn't mean I'd want to commute on it everyday. Some of the foamers out there truly live in the past.

Editorial from a Charlotte NC paper:

 

N.C. should pursue unwanted rail money

Ohio, Wisconsin may help high speed program in Southeast.

Posted: Monday, Nov. 22, 2010

 

We've long thought a lot of the states of Ohio and Wisconsin for their many contributions to American history, culture and prosperity, not to mention airplane inventors, football teams and cheddar cheese. So it was with particular appreciation that we recently read of those states' newly elected governors' intentions to refuse $1.2 billion in federal rail money to develop high-speed rail projects in those areas.

 

As Ohio Gov.-elect John Kasich so elegantly put it, "That train is dead." He was referring to a proposal to link Cincinnati, Cleveland and Columbus with passenger rail service that would ply the Midwestern route at a stately 50 miles per hour. Kasich wants none of it. And Wisconsin Gov.-elect Scott Walker doesn't want money for train service between Madison and Milwaukee.

 

Good. We take the governors at their word when they say they don't need the money their predecessors had applied for and been awarded. But there are other states with traffic congestion problems and significant air travel delays that would be delighted to have all or part of the money Ohio and Wisconsin don't want. California is one of them, but with the Golden State's budget problems that dwarf North Carolina's, sending the money to the West Coast may not be the best use of it.

 

Full editorial at: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/22/1857259/nc-should-pursue-unwanted-rail.html

North Carolina = the state that has gone from Mayberry RFD to an economic powerhouse.

 

Ohio = a state that is going from an economic powerhouse to Mayberry RFD.

 

EDIT: I loved the last line in the editorial... "Buckeyes and Badgers, thanks a billion."

 

 

Since this thread seems to be stalled out on anything but "Kasich is a jerk" comments, I thought I'd post this article which might be relevant for some worthwhile discussion.  Interesting points about what works in China won't work here in the US.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/11/why-the-us-will-not-get-chinas-high-speed-rail/66863/

Since this thread seems to be stalled out on anything but "Kasich is a jerk" comments, I thought I'd post this article which might be relevant for some worthwhile discussion. Interesting points about what works in China won't work here in the US.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2010/11/why-the-us-will-not-get-chinas-high-speed-rail/66863/

 

Can you please re-post this to the "Overseas, the Trains and The Market For Them Accelerate" thread?  Thanks.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7449.0.html

Why would someone compare a nation of 1.2 billion people to one with 300 million people?

 

How about comparing Ohio to France? (same population density)

 

How about comparing Greater Cleveland, Ohio (2.2 million) to Metro Cologne, Germany (1 million)? Or that there are cities of 1 million+ within 150 miles in four directions (Detroit, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Buffalo), with secondary cities in between (Toledo, Mansfield, Youngstown, Erie)?

 

Anyone who has traveled in Europe will notice that they do have wide open spaces. Lots of them. Tell me if this landscape doesn't look like Ohio....

 

 

That was Frankfurt to Colonge on the new 200 mph line (sped up to mach2 for brevity!), built to relieve passenger rail congestion on 19th century line that was rebuilt 30 years ago to offer 100 mph. And the 140-mile Frankfurt-Cologne corridor has 7 million people -- the same as Cleveland-Pittsburgh, also 140 miles apart.

An excellent look at the current high-speed rail funding situation from Fortune Magazine....

 

Political gridlock railroads high-speed trains

By Kit R. Roane, contributorNovember 23, 2010: 11:45 AM ET

 

 

FORTUNE -- Whether or not a multi-billion-dollar high-speed rail project is good for the nation, the current political schizophrenia over its funding is causing rail companies lot of pain.

 

On one side of the debate are Republican politicians like New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, Ohio Governor-elect John Kasich, Florida Governor-elect Rick Scott and Wisconsin Governor-elect Scott Walker.

 

Walker has called the proposed Milwaukee to Madison high-speed rail line an "$810 million boondoggle train," emblematic of "out of control taxing and spending."

 

Full Story at: http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/23/news/high_speed_rail_politics.fortune/?section=magazines_fortune

Dayton City Paper Forum on the 3C

 

http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/?p=2377

Of all the questions the media is asking, it's missing the most important ones:

 

How will Ohioans stay mobile, and how will Ohio stay attractive to residents and businesses when:

 

> our competitors are investing for the future while Ohio is not?

> oil production falls by more than 10 percent between 2012-15 and continues to slide thereafter (compared to 5% drop over only a few months in 1973)?

> the largest population group in US History, GenY, is driving far less than the preceding, smaller generation?

> the second-largest group, the Baby Boomers, start turning 65 years old next year?

 

Ohio is changing. It transportation system is not. Yes, investing for the future always carries some risk, but standing still always guarantees failure.

Of all the questions the media is asking, it's missing the most important ones:

 

How will Ohioans stay mobile, and how will Ohio stay attractive to residents and businesses when:

 

> our competitors are investing for the future while Ohio is not?

> oil production falls by more than 10 percent between 2012-15 and continues to slide thereafter (compared to 5% drop over only a few months in 1973)?

> the largest population group in US History, GenY, is driving far less than the preceding, smaller generation?

> the second-largest group, the Baby Boomers, start turning 65 years old next year?

 

Ohio is changing. It transportation system is not. Yes, investing for the future always carries some risk, but standing still always guarantees failure.

 

Well said.... very well said.

 

And another eloquent voice....this one a young professional from Dayton who writes for the local weekly...

 

Dear Governor-Elect John Kasich, Ohioans are asking for Due DiligenceBy Maha Kashani

 

 

Maha Kashani

On January 28, 2010, U.S. Department of Transportation announced it was awarding $8 billion to states across the country for a national high-speed passenger rail system as an investment in our country’s transportation infrastructure to create jobs, transform travel in America and keep us on pace with the rest of the world. Ohio worked long and hard to secure $400 million, substantially more than any of our neighboring states, for the high-speed passenger rail system connecting Dayton to Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati.

 

Fast forward to election season, I will never forget first hearing those chilling words, “Ohio’s high-speed passenger train is dead” spoken by Governor-elect John Kasich. Having just sat through a meeting with the Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) about the future of transportation in Ohio, I was blown away that a candidate for governor could state inaccurate facts and paint a false picture for Ohioans about wanting to give the $400M, earmarked exclusively for high-speed passenger rail, back to our taxpayers.

 

Full column at: http://www.daytoncitypaper.com/?p=2372

^Great article.  And she's HOT to boot!

^^And Kasick's response to this well thought our argument..."another member of the 'cult'" (if he even reads things like this which I doubt).

^^And Kasick's response to this well thought our argument..."another member of the 'cult'" (if he even reads things like this which I doubt).

 

Not trying to change Kasich's mind.  The object is to show other political leaders (such as in the Ohio General Assembly) there is broad public support for having passenger rail as an option and that it IS an essential transportation investment with a significant return.

^^^Definitely a cutie with a very nice head on her shoulders...

Release sent to Ohio media by the Ohio Environmental Council....

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE – Wednesday, November 24, 2010

 

CONTACT:  Jack Shaner, Ohio Environmental Council [email protected]

 

More Ohioans Taking The Train This Holiday Weekend.... And Every Week

 

(Columbus, OH)—Like most of America, the Buckeye State is bracing for a weekend of treacherous and uncomfortable travel this holiday weekend:

- Highways jam-packed with white-knuckled drivers, inching along in bumper-to-bumper traffic, dodging rising gas prices and fellow, road-weary travelers.

- Airport terminals clogged with cranky passengers, waiting their turn to be x-rayed or patted down before wedging into their seats and gulping down a pack of peanuts.

 

But another, less familiar and less frenzied travel scene also is unfolding in Ohio this week:  Train stations full of people patiently waiting to board their train and take a large, comfortable seat with big windows, hot meals, restrooms, and even electrical outlets for their laptops and phones—and for those who booked a private berth, a bed and a shower.

 

While debate rages about whether to reconnect Ohio’s four largest metro areas (Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus and Dayton) with passenger rail service, flying below radar is a little-known fact:  Many Ohioans prefer to travel by train.  According to Amtrak:

- Tickets are sold out this Thanksgiving for trains serving Ohio’s seven Amtrak stations in Cincinnati, Cleveland, Toledo, Sandusky, Elyria, Bryan and Alliance.

- Ohio's statewide Amtrak ridership growth of 14.6% last year is more than double the nationwide increase of 5.7%. That helped push Amtrak's ridership to another record high in the company's 39-year history.  There were 146,861 passengers whose train ride began or ended at an Ohio train station in Amtrak’s 2009 fiscal year, which ended on Sept. 30, 2010.

 

Ohioans’ rising demand for train service is remarkable, given the fact that nearly all of Amtrak’s scheduled stops in Ohio are in the dark of night, mostly between midnight and sunrise.

More underreported information exists suggesting that many Ohioans would enthusiastically embrace the option to travel by train and connect to the Midwest and nation through expanded train service along the 3C (Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati) corridor:

 

 

SPEED:  According to the latest analysis, the 3C train will top out at 79 MPH, averaging 50 MPH from end to end and 61 MPH from suburban Cleveland to Columbus. Local transit buses or light rail along with taxis and rental car services already exist or are planned or expected at station stops to help enable travelers to reach their final destination.

 

COST:  The 3C train is estimated to cost $17M per year in operating support—less than 1% of Ohio’s $2.85B annual transportation budget. By comparison, ODOT spends $12M each year mowing the grass along Ohio’s Interstate highways. While preliminary studies indicate there may be a subsidy required, there may be other opportunities to help fund annual operations without tapping state general revenue funds. ODOT has identified the following potential sources: federal CMAQ funds; lease, rental, and naming rights fees from concessions, advertising, and stations; and state transportation budget funds.

 

JOBS + ECONOMIC BENEFITS:  The 3C is projected to: Spur 255 construction jobs and 8,000 indirect and spin-off jobs in Ohio. Add $1.2B to Ohio’s economy. Create opportunities to revitalize vibrant urban cores. Help grow Ohio’s rail suppliers, which currently support 2,600 rail-related jobs in Ohio.  Generate $3 in economic benefit for every $1 invested in rail.

RIDERSHIP: The 3C corridor is the 8th most traveled by car in America (3.7M travel trips/year) and one of the most densely populated corridors not served by passenger train service (more than 6M people live within 15 miles of the 3C corridor).  Early estimates project nearly half a million riders in the 3C train’s first year of operation.

AFFORDABLE TRAVEL: Based on current ticket prices, a one-way ticket from Cleveland to Columbus would average about $20; from Cincinnati to Columbus, $18.  Fares between Midwest cities on Amtrak are typically 14 cents per mile. By comparison, it costs about 55 cents a mile to operate a car, according to the IRS.

 

ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS:  The 3C is projected to: Save 5.7M million gallons of fuel per year. Removes nearly 320,000 Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT) per day. Reduce hydrocarbon emissions by 95% (train vs. car emissions). Reduce Ohio's dependence on oil.

 

PUBLIC SUPPORT: According to a March 2009 Quinnipiac University statewide poll, more than 60% of Ohioans support passenger rail and the reestablishment of 3C service in Ohio.

 

BOTTOM LINE:  More and more Ohioans are discovering a safe, convenient and productive travel choice—the train.  In fact, many Ohioans prefer to ride the train, and they’re turning to in increasing numbers—on this holiday weekend and throughout the year.  It’s a fact, and you can look it up. And the facts suggest the 3C should be a winner.

 

 

"COST:  The 3C train is estimated to cost $17M per year in operating support—less than 1% of Ohio’s $2.85B annual transportation budget. By comparison, ODOT spends $12M each year mowing the grass along Ohio’s Interstate highways."

 

This is a great stat.

lol I thought that said "Coast" for a second there..lol They would have never come up with numbers like that.

The article by Maha Kashani is really good.  Thanks for posting

Kashitch also made wild claims that the electricity deregulation bill would cause Ohioans to have high electricity rates due to the renewable energy portfolio provisions.  During one debate, Governor Strickland told the ignoramus that he didn't know what he was talking about, because the bill had a provision to prevent the renewable portfolio from increasing our bills beyond a quantum amount.

 

The quality of Ohio's government has gone down tremendously since term limits in 1994.  Having an ignorant ideologue for governor is not going to make it any better.

 

(there is a rough paraphrase in the first paragraph)

Friends of ours came up yesterday and it took them 4 hours to get from I-70/I-270 in Columbus to Cleveland, thanks to weather, the amount of travelers out, and rush hour.  That's an average of about 39 MPH.  Maybe we need to have an alternative to the "slow highways".

^That stretch is a pain....there are so many trucks and cars battling for room, it's NOT a leisure drive at most times of the day. Once you get out of the city it should be a pleasant cruise, and it is just not, plain and simple.  An alternative is needed for sure.

 

Try to set your cruise control at maybe 73.  It won't be on long.

I'd like to welcome the cincy enquirer to the discussion!  A day late and a dollar short from the rest of the papers in Ohio.

 

States line up for train rail funds

By Barry M. Horstman • [email protected] • November 26, 2010

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20101126/NEWS01/11270310/

Does anyone know what the procedure will be for reallocating the funds after Ohio rejects them? Who decides where it goes? Is it first-come, first-serve on an application basis?

 

Personally, I have a much greater personal stake in improving service on the Capitol Limited to DC and the Lake Shore Limited to NY/Chicago, and I wonder how come the railfans have not injected it into the debate. The service through Cleveland is positively atrocious. I live in Cleveland, though, so I guess it's my selfish thought to not consider connecting Columbus to the network an important goal.  :evil:

Does anyone know what the procedure will be for reallocating the funds after Ohio rejects them? Who decides where it goes? Is it first-come, first-serve on an application basis?

 

Personally, I have a much greater personal stake in improving service on the Capitol Limited to DC and the Lake Shore Limited to NY/Chicago, and I wonder how come the railfans have not injected it into the debate. The service through Cleveland is positively atrocious. I live in Cleveland, though, so I guess it's my selfish thought to not consider connecting Columbus to the network an important goal. :evil:

 

The 3C is more than a rail corridor.  It is literally and figuratively the transportation "spine" of the state....parts of 3 Interstate highways (71, 70 and 75) as well as parts of rail corridors for two major railroads (NS and CSX). That's what makes the 3C project and "important goal."

 

Reallocating the $$$ will ne entirely upto the USDOT.  States will likely have to make new or amended applications to get all or a share of the $400-million (Ohio) or the $810-million (Wisconsin).

 

It's doubtful those $$$ could be used for either the Lake Shore Ltd or Capitol Ltd, as they are both Amtrak national system trains and ARRA funds meant for state-support corridors would not be eligible for use on such routes.

Does anyone know what the procedure will be for reallocating the funds after Ohio rejects them? Who decides where it goes? Is it first-come, first-serve on an application basis?

 

Personally, I have a much greater personal stake in improving service on the Capitol Limited to DC and the Lake Shore Limited to NY/Chicago, and I wonder how come the railfans have not injected it into the debate. The service through Cleveland is positively atrocious. I live in Cleveland, though, so I guess it's my selfish thought to not consider connecting Columbus to the network an important goal.  :evil:

 

The 3C is more than a rail corridor.  It is literally and figuratively the transportation "spine" of the state....parts of 3 Interstate highways (71, 70 and 75) as well as parts of rail corridors for two major railroads (NS and CSX). That's what makes the 3C project and "important goal."

 

Reallocating the $$$ will ne entirely upto the USDOT.  States will likely have to make new or amended applications to get all or a share of the $400-million (Ohio) or the $810-million (Wisconsin).

 

It's doubtful those $$$ could be used for either the Lake Shore Ltd or Capitol Ltd, as they are both Amtrak national system trains and ARRA funds meant for state-support corridors would not be eligible for use on such routes.

 

Other than the work around Portage to improve performance of long-distance trains approaching/departing Chicago, Indiana got zip in the first go-around. That much money could go a long way toward preparing the Indiana segment of the future Cleveland-Toledo-Fort Wayne-Chicago route and reestablishing Fort Wayne-Chicago service. Fort Wayne is Indiana's second-largest city and has been without a direct rail connection to Chicago since 1990.

Planes, trains and trying times for Clevelanders:

 

Published: Saturday, November 27, 2010, 10:00 AM

Susan Glaser, The Plain Dealer

 

I'm feeling railroaded.

 

I was so looking forward to taking the train to visit my sister in Cincinnati. Now I'm stuck -- literally and figuratively -- on the overcrowded, uninspired lanes of I-71 for the foreseeable future.

 

>Gov.-elect John Kasich put the kibosh on passenger rail travel in Ohio just days after his election early this month. He has vowed to turn away at least $400 million in federal money that would have helped develop the 3C corridor, a train route linking Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati that would have started operating as early as 2012.

 

Meanwhile, governors in California, New York, Illinois and North Carolina are all clamoring for Ohio's share of federal cash.

 

Full column at: http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2010/11/planes_trains_and_trying_times.html

The Youngstown Vindicator opined -- very bluntly, I might add -- today about Kasich's stand on the 3-C line.

 

Gov-elect Kasich is wrong on use of federal rail funds

Published: Sat, November 27, 2010 @ 12:00 a.m.

 

The Obama administration has told Ohio’s next governor, Republican John Kasich, in the clearest language possible that the use-it-or-lose-it rule applies to the hundreds of millions of dollars in passenger rail money from the federal government.

 

If Kasich stands firm on his campaign promise to halt the development of a rail system linking Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Dayton, the U.S. Department of Transportation will take back the $400 million.

 

Full opinion piece at: http://www.vindy.com/news/2010/nov/27/gov-elect-kasich-is-wrong-on-use-of-fede/

From Noozer:

 

Note that Sen. Patton continues to use the bogus state budget argument.....plus the fact that the bulk of the infrastructure improvements that would benefit the very freight rail system he extols....as well as all of the other lame statements against passenger rail....  and this is from the Chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee??

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/11/27/passenger-rail-money-could-be-put-to-better-use-elsewhere.html?sid=101

Passenger-rail money could be put to better use elsewhere

 

Saturday, November 27, 2010  02:53 AM

 

 

One of Ohio’s greatest economic assets is its location. Our state is less than a day’s drive from half of the nation’s population. We have made good use of this advantage by creating a vital network of lake and river ports, highways and railroads that have helped Ohio companies quickly deliver products to their customers, while contributing to the growth of our state’s $34 billion export market.

 

 

 

Ohio’s ability to attract business investment, create jobs and compete globally is directly linked to the continued strength of this transportation infrastructure. The greatest threat to this effort isn’t a lack of resources, but mistaken priorities....

 

 

 

 

From Noozer:

 

Note that Sen. Patton continues to use the bogus state budget argument.....plus the fact that the bulk of the infrastructure improvements that would benefit the very freight rail system he extols....as well as all of the other lame statements against passenger rail....  and this is from the Chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee??

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/11/27/passenger-rail-money-could-be-put-to-better-use-elsewhere.html?sid=101

Passenger-rail money could be put to better use elsewhere

 

Saturday, November 27, 2010  02:53 AM

 

 

One of Ohio’s greatest economic assets is its location. Our state is less than a day’s drive from half of the nation’s population. We have made good use of this advantage by creating a vital network of lake and river ports, highways and railroads that have helped Ohio companies quickly deliver products to their customers, while contributing to the growth of our state’s $34 billion export market.

 

 

 

Ohio’s ability to attract business investment, create jobs and compete globally is directly linked to the continued strength of this transportation infrastructure. The greatest threat to this effort isn’t a lack of resources, but mistaken priorities....

 

 

 

 

 

The All Aboard Ohio response:

 

In his letter “Passenger-rail money could be put to better use elsewhere” (Dispatch, Saturday, November 27, 2010) Senator Tom Patton calls for sending rail passenger money away. However,  the real mistaken priorities are those of the incoming administration and Senator Patton, which will throw thousands of jobs away in the middle of the Great Recession. This action will negatively affect Ohio’s competitiveness, accelerating the exodus of young people to states where real transportation choices exist. Opponents of the trains are misguided, since rail service will be a job-creating economic development engine, focusing development in urban areas, where it’s needed, while enhancing mobility for all Ohioans.

 

Neither Senator Patton nor Governor-elect John Kasich has bothered to acquaint themselves on this issue. Kasich has a philosophical problem with passenger trains, calling them a crazy idea. Patton is a protector of the highway lobby who browbeat those who testified in favor of the trains during the 2009 ODOT budget hearings and wants to prevent the development of transportation alternatives. Distortions and bullying of witnesses and constituents whose opinions run counter to his are evidence of this.

 

 

Senator Patton complains about $17 million in annual 3C operating costs, but only $3.4 million will come from state sources in each of the first three years and on a per capita basis, the $17 million subsidy is only $1.05 per year or 26 cents a month. This funding has nothing to do with the upcoming biennial budget regardless of Senator Patton’s claims and probably would not impact it at all, since tax receipts from new jobs created by the trains would more than offset any operating costs. Meanwhile, according to the Federal Highway Administration, we subsidize Ohio roads at $1.2 billion annually or $109.00 per person every year. Senator Patton swats the rail flea while ignoring the highway elephant.

 

Oddly, Senator Patton extols freight investments, while ignoring that 3C will bring in $200 million in improvements to freight rail. He praises Ohio’s past forward-thinking transportation investments, while ignoring how investing in passenger rail will help prepare us for freight growth that will overwhelm our highways and freight rail routes by 2035. He makes much of “money losing” trains while ignoring the fact that all transportation investment is supported by taxpayer dollars, especially highways, well beyond what is paid for at the pump.

 

Ironically, the Ohio Hub rail plan was created under Republican Governor Taft and was championed by another Republican, James Seney, executive director of the Ohio Rail Development Commission. In 2006 the Ohio Senate passed a 33-0 resolution endorsing the use of federal money for Ohio passenger rail projects but when the money was awarded by a Democrat-led federal government at the request a democratic governor, these same Republican state senators took a hypocritical anti-rail stance.

 

 

 

Republicans now have complete control of the state government and that means they also own all the problems Ohio faces. Sending our dollars to other states, whose residents will benefit through new jobs and transportation choices, while Ohio stagnates, is foolish. Is Ohio so well off that it can afford to throw these jobs away?  This issue could become an albatross for Republicans if they reject trains and other public transit in favor of roads. They could pay the price at the polls when gas prices shoot up (and they will) and Ohioans are left with no choice but to drive and pay as the state continues to hemorrhage jobs.

 

 

 

Short sighted decisions by Governor-elect Kasich and Senator Patton will negatively impact the state for decades. Ohio deserves better leadership than this.

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

Bill Hutchison, President

 

All Aboard Ohio

 

 

From Noozer:

 

Note that Sen. Patton continues to use the bogus state budget argument.....plus the fact that the bulk of the infrastructure improvements that would benefit the very freight rail system he extols....as well as all of the other lame statements against passenger rail.... and this is from the Chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee??

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/11/27/passenger-rail-money-could-be-put-to-better-use-elsewhere.html?sid=101

Passenger-rail money could be put to better use elsewhere

 

Saturday, November 27, 2010 02:53 AM

 

 

One of Ohio’s greatest economic assets is its location. Our state is less than a day’s drive from half of the nation’s population. We have made good use of this advantage by creating a vital network of lake and river ports, highways and railroads that have helped Ohio companies quickly deliver products to their customers, while contributing to the growth of our state’s $34 billion export market.

 

 

 

Ohio’s ability to attract business investment, create jobs and compete globally is directly linked to the continued strength of this transportation infrastructure. The greatest threat to this effort isn’t a lack of resources, but mistaken priorities....

 

 

 

 

Ironically, the Ohio Hub rail plan was created under Republican Governor Taft and was championed by another Republican, James Seney, executive director of the Ohio Rail Development Commission. In 2006 the Ohio Senate passed a 33-0 resolution endorsing the use of federal money for Ohio passenger rail projects but when the money was awarded by a Democrat-led federal government at the request a democratic governor, these same Republican state senators took a hypocritical anti-rail stance.

 

It's politics as usual and I'm disgusted. Perhaps if small changes could be made with the 3c, Kasich would be willing to go along with it. It was one of his argument's against Strickland being in office of coarse, but if he had a way not to appear  flip-flopping he could save face?????

Excellent rebuttal. This is insanity to say the least to be this short sighted. How embarrassing for Ohio.

Excellent rebuttal. This is insanity to say the least to be this short sighted. How embarrassing for Ohio.

 

Thanks! Any time something as stupid as Patton's letter shows up, we have to respond...immediately!

From Noozer:

 

Note that Sen. Patton continues to use the bogus state budget argument.....plus the fact that the bulk of the infrastructure improvements that would benefit the very freight rail system he extols....as well as all of the other lame statements against passenger rail....  and this is from the Chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee??

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/11/27/passenger-rail-money-could-be-put-to-better-use-elsewhere.html?sid=101

Passenger-rail money could be put to better use elsewhere

 

Saturday, November 27, 2010  02:53 AM

 

 

One of Ohio’s greatest economic assets is its location. Our state is less than a day’s drive from half of the nation’s population. We have made good use of this advantage by creating a vital network of lake and river ports, highways and railroads that have helped Ohio companies quickly deliver products to their customers, while contributing to the growth of our state’s $34 billion export market.

 

 

 

Ohio’s ability to attract business investment, create jobs and compete globally is directly linked to the continued strength of this transportation infrastructure. The greatest threat to this effort isn’t a lack of resources, but mistaken priorities....

 

 

 

 

Ironically, the Ohio Hub rail plan was created under Republican Governor Taft and was championed by another Republican, James Seney, executive director of the Ohio Rail Development Commission. In 2006 the Ohio Senate passed a 33-0 resolution endorsing the use of federal money for Ohio passenger rail projects but when the money was awarded by a Democrat-led federal government at the request a democratic governor, these same Republican state senators took a hypocritical anti-rail stance.

 

It's politics as usual and I'm disgusted. Perhaps if small changes could be made with the 3c, Kasich would be willing to go along with it. It was one of his argument's against Strickland being in office of coarse, but if he had a way not to appear  flip-flopping he could save face?????

 

Don't hold your breath. Kasich is a deeply-rooted idealgue who has a fundamental dislike of passenger rail... fought to permanently derail Amtrak for his entire time in Congress.  There is no tweaking to the 3C plan that will change his mind.

^ "Don't hold your breath. Kasich is a deeply-rooted idealgue who has a fundamental dislike of passenger rail... fought to permanently derail Amtrak for his entire time in Congress.  There is no tweaking to the 3C plan that will change his mind."

 

 

Such is a reason why it is so scary to have him in office. Where will this die-hard yocal local mentality stop!

 

Don't hold your breath. Kasich is a deeply-rooted idealgue who has a fundamental dislike of passenger rail... fought to permanently derail Amtrak for his entire time in Congress.  There is no tweaking to the 3C plan that will change his mind.

 

In a state of 10 million people we can't let one confused and misguided guy who will cause detrimental harm to the state proceed as he wishes. Strickland should transfer the money to Cleveland RTA (the biggest in the State) or to a consortium of counties or cities and have them build 3C. This way, the money won't be ODOT's for Kasich to take away.

So... what is the largest organization to join/talk to in order to get some sort of voice in this?

^I joined the National Organization Association of Railroad Passengers* a couple days ago to add my voice to these debates nationwide, though I suspect All Aboard Ohio is a good org to join to support 3C specifically.  http://allaboardohio.org/

 

*10% off Amtrak tickets for members certainly doesn't hurt!

 

EDIT: thanks Rob for the correction- somehow in typing out the full name I turned it into NORP!

Gee.  Senator Patton tells more lies about the 3C Corridor and Ohio's media lets him get away with it.  Big surprise.  The media just doesn't do its job anymore.  I realize that this is a letter to the editor, but he's been quoted as saying the same things for newspaper articles, and there has yet to be a single reporter who will actually question him on anything.  Like asking him to offer proof that the ridership estimates are inflated. 

 

In a state of 10 million people we can't let one confused and misguided guy who will cause detrimental harm to the state proceed as he wishes. Strickland should transfer the money to Cleveland RTA (the biggest in the State) or to a consortium of counties or cities and have them build 3C. This way, the money won't be ODOT's for Kasich to take away.

 

An excellent idea. 

 

 

Don't hold your breath. Kasich is a deeply-rooted idealogue who has a fundamental dislike of passenger rail... fought to permanently derail Amtrak for his entire time in Congress.  There is no tweaking to the 3C plan that will change his mind.

 

Unfortunate, but true.  I don't know that there is much we can do at this point except let their egos hang them for us.  By that time, the money will be long gone, though. 

So... what is the largest organization to join/talk to in order to get some sort of voice in this?

^I joined the National Organization of Railroad Passengers* a couple days ago to add my voice to these debates nationwide, though I suspect All Aboard Ohio is org to join in support of 3C specifically.  http://allaboardohio.org/

 

*10% off Amtrak tickets for members certainly doesn't hurt!

 

National Association of Railroad Passengers (NARP) is the national organization. The NARP newsletter is informative on issues involving both Amtrak and urban rail transit systems, and as StrapHanger noted, NARP members receive ten percent discounts on Amtrak travel.

 

NARP collaborates with state organizations to share information and hold annual regional meetings.

 

A useful and enjoyable source of information is Trains Magazine. It's an attractively laid out publication that provides a good balance of information on historic and contemporary railroading and projections for the future of the industry, along with entertaining anecdotes by railroaders and their families. There's a section where subscribers' questions about railroading terminology and practice are answered by the professionals, and regular commentators present their views on the implications of the changing economic and poltical environments.

 

    Rob, how did you stand working so many years in a machine shop or IT? You are a natural salesman.  :-D

So... what is the largest organization to join/talk to in order to get some sort of voice in this?

 

NARP deals with federal stuff. If you want to increase your voice in Ohio matters, the organization is All Aboard Ohio....

 

www.allaboardohio.org

Maybe Strickland can bury that $400M in a secret vault somewhere until a more sensible governor comes along.

Not when there are other states with projects ready to go.

Maybe Strickland can bury that $400M in a secret vault somewhere until a more sensible governor comes along.

 

Nice thought, but unless some miracle happens, we are going back to the dark ages. We can either live with it or move elsewhere.