That's pretty much what the high-speed rail thread is.

Another article that parrots the PD piece......

 

http://www.therailist.com/node/292

^ I think Kasich would support a high speed train, I think he just didn't support the 3C because the initial speed wasn't fast enough for him and he didn't see the potential of the speed increasing overtime.

I think this editorial sums up Ohio's inferiority complex. While states like North Carolina, Missouri, New Mexico and Utah have state-supported intercity and regional passenger rail services that are filling with riders between cities smaller than the 3Cs, too many in Ohio don't believe we're worthy. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy....

 

http://www.tribtoday.com/page/content.detail/id/553256/Hop-aboard-the-latest-rail-proposal.html?nav=5007

 

"We opposed the so-called Tri-C route because Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati are small towns. For robust ridership, rail should connect with big boys - Chicago and / or New York."

^ this has nothing to do with small town inferiority complex. Tribtoday was against it the Tri-C because it didn't serve Youngstown. This proposed rail will. The 'small town' argument is specious at best.

^ I think Kasich would support a high speed train, I think he just didn't support the 3C because the initial speed wasn't fast enough for him and he didn't see the potential of the speed increasing overtime.

I don't think the speed was an issue. He didn't support it because Strickland and Obama did.

^ I think Kasich would support a high speed train, I think he just didn't support the 3C because the initial speed wasn't fast enough for him and he didn't see the potential of the speed increasing overtime.

I don't think the speed was an issue. He didn't support it because Strickland and Obama did.

 

Speed was never an issue....it was an excuse for Kasich to continue what has been a political lifetime of opposition to passenger rail.  It will be interesting to see if the involvement of Cong. LaTourette as a supporter of this HSR plan will have any impact.  Too bad HE isn't the Governor.

Look, 3C was a bust in 2010 and won't be back on the table until 2014 at the earliest.  What can we do to improve metro transit service so that when 3C comes back (as the Ohio Hub, for example) we will have more metro "infeed" to link up with 3C travel?  I think that is where we need to focus our energies for the next four years. 

 

In northeast Ohio we should continue looking at linking Cleveland with Pittsburgh (via Youngstown), bringing the Westshore commuter rail online, and improving the existing Rapid Transit infrastructure (and related TOD around stations).  Hopefully Columbus can have some success with a light rail line between downtown and the airport, as well as improved connections from downtown to the casino and north past OSU.  And maybe Cincinnati will get that streetcar line and who knows, some improvements toward future passenger rail access into the city. 

 

There are lots of reasons why the 3C plan didn't fly this time, but there's still lots to do to get ready for the next time.  Let's get crackin'!

^Agreed.

^ this has nothing to do with small town inferiority complex. Tribtoday was against it the Tri-C because it didn't serve Youngstown. This proposed rail will. The 'small town' argument is specious at best.

 

If Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati are too small for rail, then by their thinking so is Cleveland, Youngstown and Pittsburgh. And there's no guarantee that CYP rail will serve Warren.

 

And yes, Ohio's inferiority complex is a major reason why we don't think we deserve rail. I've read, seen and heard this argument a million times during my work and we have had to collect and present data to show how silly this belief is. We do deserve it.

 

And, yes, All Aboard Ohio is advocating local/regional rail development to create dots to be connected by intercity rail to create a real network. I'm sure you've seen some references to this in regards to Columbus and Cleveland. And it's one of the many reasons why the Cincinnati streetcar is so important.

 

 

^ I think Kasich would support a high speed train, I think he just didn't support the 3C because the initial speed wasn't fast enough for him and he didn't see the potential of the speed increasing overtime.

 

Like the others noted, speed was an excuse, not a reason. The speed would have increased as they have on all other services that today operate at 90 mph or better (Keystone Corridor, Pacific Surfliner, Empire Corridor, Wolverine Corridor, etc). They all started at 79 mph.

 

It'll be interesting to see how Kasich responds to the administration's plans to eliminate EFV production in Lima and the alternate JSF engine at the GE facility in Dayton which will cost Ohio business about $1.5 billion. I wonder how much the taxpayers of Ohio paid for the infrastructure improvements that supported these two facilities.

 

 

High-speed rail proposal should include the Valley

Published: Thu, February 17, 2011 @ 12:00 a.m.

 

After slamming the door shut on the plan to build a high-speed rail line between Cleveland and Cincinnati using $400 million from the federal government, Gov. John Kasich appears to have reopened the door a crack to another rail proposal.

 

Kasich, who took office in January and immediately made good on a campaign promise to return the $400 million to the Obama administration, has told the Cleveland Plain Dealer that he may be more receptive to a high-speed rail line along Lake Erie.

 

The line would link Cleveland with Chicago, Detroit, Toledo and Buffalo.

 

And, says Congressman Tim Ryan of Niles, D-17th, it would include routes to Youngstown and Pittsburgh.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/feb/17/high-speed-rail-proposal-should-include-/

^ This is all well and good, but wouldn't it have been great to have 3C and this line? So Columbusites, Daytonians, and Cincinnatians could make use of these northern corridors?

Absolutely. It's in All Aboard Ohio's work plan for 2011 and probably subsequent years.

Can we "sticky" this thread so it stays on top?

 

Like the others noted, speed was an excuse, not a reason. The speed would have increased as they have on all other services that today operate at 90 mph or better (Keystone Corridor, Pacific Surfliner, Empire Corridor, Wolverine Corridor, etc). They all started at 79 mph.

 

The Downeaster started at 59 mph. 

 

 

This is a strange way for the Guv to show he is open-minded to LaTourette's desire for high-speed rail. This would have started the planning for 110 mph HSR on six segments, including those sought by the three Congresspersons:

 

Cleveland-Toledo

Cleveland-Pittsburgh

Toledo-Detroit

Toledo-Columbus

Cincinnati-Columbus

Columbus-Cleveland

 

Now Kasich's ODOT has slammed the door on pursuing this....

_______________________

 

 

From: Lyle Flower

Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 12:16 PM

To:  AECOM

Subject: VAR-STW-Passenger Rail, ODOT Agreement No. 15730

 

Please be advised that the Department has decided not to proceed with the statewide passenger rail study currently being conducted by AECOM under Agreement No. 15730.  The Office of Consultant Services will issue a termination letter in the near future.  This action is based on the Department's review of current and future funding considerations.

 

Please call me at your convenience should you have questions.

 

Lyle Flower

Administrator, Office of Consultant Services

Ohio Department of Transportation

is there any possible reason for this other than anti-rail douchebaggery?

Once you get to the core, no that's pretty much it.

Ohio -- accelerating its economy by sending $400 million to Illinois and California for high-speed rail

So when does Mr. Budget Slash start work on refusing Ohio airline and highway subsidies? We gotta cut, cut, cut after all

is there any possible reason for this other than anti-rail douchebaggery?

 

No.  He's doing the bidding of the Ohio Contractor's Association--oppose anything that's not a road-- and the Republican National Committee--oppose anything Obama wants. 

 

 

KJP:  what other options are being discussed to get around ODOT and get this funded?

 

KJP:  what other options are being discussed to get around ODOT and get this funded?

 

For east-west HSR passing through multiple states, any one of them can be a sponsor under federal law. So can Amtrak. So can a state-chartered agency. As can an association of states like the Midwest Interstate Passenger Rail Commission (which doesn't include states east of Ohio), or the mothballed but still legally in force Interstate High Speed Intercity Rail Passenger Network Compact (which extends east and south of Ohio and includes New York, Pennsylvania, Kentucky and West Virginia).

Sorry, but does that termination apply to all possible permutations of the 'Lake Erie' high speed rail, with or without other Ohio cities?

No. It would have been much easier to modify the scope of the existing planning -- the Programmatic Environmental Impact Study -- which had three segments relevant to the "Lake Erie" corridor. ODOT had a contract with reputable planning and engineering firms and was ready to go. Now ODOT would have to re-bid the entire planning effort.

The decisions to cancel passenger rail projects in Ohio and Wisconsin may loom large in their consequences...

 

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/track+more+business/4336193/story.html

 

When oil prices rise, passengers abandon cars and planes in favour of trains, says Via Rail president Marc Laliberté.

Fuel accounts for about 10 per cent of Via Rail’s operating costs, compared with 30 to 40 per cent for airlines.

By François Shalom, The Gazette February 24, 2011

 

Marc Laliberté certainly does not wish for further turmoil in the Middle East, but if it happens it will be good for business.

 

The president of Via Rail told reporters after a luncheon speech by Paul Smith, the chairman of his board of directors, that rising oil prices have the opposite effect on his company, Canada’s passenger train operator, than it has on car and plane travel.

 

“It’s kind of a natural hedging program for us. The higher the prices go up, the more passengers (abandon cars and planes to) come to us. In 2008, when oil prices shot up, Via Rail experienced a real boom in traffic.”

 

“And by the way,” Laliberté added, “oil prices aren’t coming down again. That’s it, they’re up for good.”

 

Full sory at link above:

And by the way, Laliberté added, oil prices arent coming down again. Thats it, theyre up for good.

 

Saudi Arabia is using profits from high oil revenues to subsidize programs for its citizens hoping to stave off a revolution in the kingdom. Chavez' popularity in Venezuela is directly related to the amount of oil revenus poured into social and economic programs. Oil prices will stay up not only because of increasing demand but because despotic regimes need the revenues to stay in power. And yet many Republicans don't view our dependency on the automobile as an issue of national defense.

 

 

 

It'll be interesting to see how Kasich responds to the administration's plans to eliminate EFV production in Lima and the alternate JSF engine at the GE facility in Dayton which will cost Ohio business about $1.5 billion. I wonder how much the taxpayers of Ohio paid for the infrastructure improvements that supported these two facilities.

 

1) What does EFV production in Lima and the JSF alternate engine have to do with the 3C?

 

2) The JSF alternate engine (F-136) was to be built in Evendale (Cincinnati), not Dayton.  The new facility you may be referring to on or near the UD campus is a research facility that is not impacted by the F-136 cancellation.

 

3) The facilities that these items are built in have been there for years.  I don't believe the Lima tank plant or GE facility went through any large expansions to accomodate these production lines.

 

I was comparing the EFV and JSF to 3C in terms of economic impacts on Ohio. My estimates as to the cost to Ohio with the loss of the former two programs may have been low. By some estimates, the total loss will be $3 billion and approximately 1200 jobs.  $400 million might seem low in comparison but it is still $400 million to an economy that could sure use some good news. When public investment in infrastructure took place is irrelevant. The fact is that it did and, in today's dollars, it was probably not less than the $7 million in operating subsidies requested of Ohio for the 3C.

 

How does Ohio keep electing their own worst enemy for governor?  I'm convinced the biggest reason for Ohio's stagnation/mass exodus is the fact that as long as we hold state elections, this state will never go anywhere faster than 5 miles per hour.

How does Ohio keep electing their own worst enemy for governor?  I'm convinced the biggest reason for Ohio's stagnation/mass exodus is the fact that as long as we hold state elections, this state will never go anywhere faster than 5 miles per hour.

 

What are you suggesting?  Should we not hold state elections?  Who should select our state leaders?  The enlightened few? 

 

I'm sorry, but I think your view of Ohio's stagnation is exaggerated and your frustration is misplaced.

More Than A Third Of Americans Aware Of High Speed Rail Projects In Their State

Nearly two-thirds support state or federal funding for High Speed Rail, including those that live in Florida; one in five oppose, 15% unsure

 

NEW YORK, N.Y. - February 24, 2011 - President Obama announced in April 2009, and reconfirmed during his recent State of the Union address, his commitment to develop high-speed intercity passenger rail across the United States.

 

High-speed rail is a type of passenger rail transport between major cities that operates at substantially faster speeds than current intercity passenger trains in the U.S. It is designed to provide fast, reliable, and convenient service, operates using electric power and often includes onboard amenities such as food and beverage service and Wi-fi access.

 

The Harris Poll conducted an online survey among 2,566 adults between January 17 and 24, 2011 to gauge awareness, intention to use and position on funding for high-speed rail. At the time of the survey, there were ten proposed high-speed rail corridors across the United Statesª. To-date, projects in California and Florida have been the most visible.

 

Full poll story at:

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/mid/1508/articleId/700/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/Default.aspx

These hard-line GOPers are going to strangle the economy of this country.....

 

2/25/2011    Federal Funding

CREATE flyover funds at stake in House FY2011 spending bill, congressmen say

 

A $133 million federal grant obtained by Chicago Region Environmental and Transportation Efficiency (CREATE) Program partners last year to fund the Englewood Flyover is at risk because of the recently passed House spending bill, according to Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) and Reps. Dan Lipinski (D-Ill.) and Bobby Rush (D-Ill.).

 

The flyover’s funding would be eliminated in H.R. 1, the fiscal-year 2011 spending bill approved by the House Feb. 19, the congressmen said in a joint statement. If the legislation — which is now being considered by the Senate — becomes law, the measure would cost as many as 1,450 Chicago-area jobs associated with the flyover, they said. The congressmen pledged to fight for the federal dollars promised for the project.

 

“This mindless cut is a clear signal that the House-passed bill is not the product of a thoughtful effort. Yes, we need to cut spending, but we need to do so in a responsible manner,” said Durbin. “We shouldn’t abandon our commitments to creating jobs and economic development in the midst of this recession.”

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prdailynews/news.asp?id=25870

I just received the April 2011 issue of Trains Magazine in the mail. This issue is all about high speed rail-- around the world, what's happening in the US with rail development (including political problems), what works and what doesn't, etc. It's packed with good articles on the subject, including case studies. I highly recommend folks pick up this issue. I don't know when the April issue will hit the newsstands, but I suspect within a couple of weeks.

^So, don't keep us waiting. What works?

http://trn.trains.com/en/Magazine/Issue%20Preview/2011/02/April%202011%20Issue%20Preview.aspx

I thought this was interesting, but I'm not sure if they're including local travel time or not, as the Washington DC-New York numbers are too high for both rail and air.....

 

Check out what Columbus Union Station had for train service in 1954 and imagine if we had this many choices for rail travel today s gasoline prices spike (again).

 

http://www.columbusrailroads.com/images/1954%20train%20schedules.pdf

 

 

Awesome document! Who made that?

 

What should be done with this thread? Should it be renamed/repurposed? Should it be sent to Dead Projects?

The list was put together by Alex Campbell, a local rail historian who has his own web page....  http://www.columbusrailroads.com/

 

As to the fate of this thread... I would suggest re-naming it to 3C Passenger Rail Attempts or Restarting Passenger Rail In Ohio's 3C Corridor

^I would also suggest removing the sticky from this thread and instead sticky the "Ohio--Accelerating its economy with high speed rail" thread. 

Noozer, you're preaching to the choir.  Too bad the Republicans that a running things are totally adverse to such things as FACTS or LOGIC or REASON.

^--- Now, now, Democrats don't have a monopoly on Facts, Logic, or Reason, either.

 

    Elections aren't  necessarily based on Facts, Logis, or Reaons.  Voters are not required to base their decision on Facts, Logic, or Reason. As a matter of fact, the electorate can vote for the guy with the most hair, the guy with the better voice, the guy with the best one-liner, the hometown hero, the underdog, the maverick, the guy that went to Ohio State, the guy who has a pretty wife, or plain and simply, the Republican (or Democrat).  Or maybe, they will vote for the guy that bought the most negative campaign ads.

 

    My point is not to expect too much from a politician from either party when the voters who put him there make their decisions based on something other than Facts, Logic, or Reason.

This thread is renamed and stickied. I did so based on conversations I've had with Amtrak officials in the past week who report that Congresspersons Kaptur, LaTourette and Ryan are pursuing a project to link northern Ohio cities to Chicago.

^ Thats good. How fast would it be again?

Too soon to say. I hope to find out more later this week.

Great video promoting high speed rail from the cast and creators of the cabel series "Mad Men".

 

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/7e1b30b48b/mad-men-on-trains

^ummm....did you post the wrong link?  I'm not quite seeing the High Speed Rail connection here.

EDIT: for some reason the link is taking you to the wrong video. Search the site, you'll find it.

Working OK for me.  :?