January 10, 20223 yr The Franklin County Convention Facilities Authority has posted the Greater Columbus Passenger Rail Station Study Final Report. At the bottom of this page https://www.meetusincolumbus.com/operating-budget/ you will find this report: https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:c7851714-70e2-4629-8394-9ea3d6b41ae6
January 11, 20223 yr On 1/10/2022 at 9:57 AM, JaceTheAce41 said: Since it seems that Amtrak service between the 3-Cs is stalled, what about the expanded Cincinnati to Chicago service? Are we waiting on Indiana to approve anything? https://www.kpcnews.com/thestar/article_7f7a3cd1-4fa2-5d3b-856d-41505bb99b1b.html This is the only article I could find. It sounds like they are going to hear testimony on a bill that would create a commission on passenger rail under INDOT. The senator who sponsored the bill (Dennis Kruse) said that he expects a favorable vote on the bill.
January 12, 20223 yr Amtrak will move on their end 3-5 years after the state approves its share of funding, whenever that happens. Plan is for three trips per day Cincy-Day-Cbus-Cle with 9 total stops and a 5:30 run time.
January 12, 20223 yr Here’s the Latest on Amtrak’s Plans for New Ohio Service Although there have been plenty of promising plans and initiatives through the years, Columbus remains the largest U.S. city without any fixed rail service and the second largest without Amtrak service. So, while the recent news about plans for a new train station on High Street has been greeted by some with excitement, there is still plenty of pessimism to be found among those that hope to see new passenger train service in Ohio. We checked in with Thea Ewing, of the Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission (MORPC), to help us sort through the latest developments. Last spring, Ewing told us that there could be a real window of opportunity opening up for passenger rail in Ohio, and since then, President Biden has signed into law an infrastructure bill that sets aside $66 billion in funding for rail projects over the next five years. “It’s a significant amount of money for passenger rail; some of it is committed to the Northeast corridor…but the other parts of it are dedicated to establishing new service around the country,” said Ewing, and Columbus has been identified by Amtrak “as the market that they’re not currently serving with the best business case.” More below: https://www.columbusunderground.com/heres-the-latest-on-amtraks-plans-for-new-ohio-service-bw1/ "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 13, 20223 yr I’d love to see a partnership between Brightline and Bedrock to create a passenger rail connection between Cleveland, Detroit, and Chicago (and therefore Toledo, Sandusky, South Bend, and the airports in CLE and Detroit). I’m convinced this is OH’s best shot at expanded passenger rail. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
January 14, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said: I’d love to see a partnership between Brightline and Bedrock to create a passenger rail connection between Cleveland, Detroit, and Chicago (and therefore Toledo, Sandusky, South Bend, and the airports in CLE and Detroit). I’m convinced this is OH’s best shot at expanded passenger rail. Fully agree, and it would be nice to see them collaborate on the future of the Tower City development and other planned development along Canal Road. Based on the renderings in the below article, they don't really give much detail on making Tower City the transportation hub or supporting the extension of the CVSR into downtown along the river. https://neo-trans.blog/2021/09/15/bedrock-riverfront-joins-downtown-lakefront-in-mega-planning/
January 14, 20223 yr 30 minutes ago, jofrko14 said: Fully agree, and it would be nice to see them collaborate on the future of the Tower City development and other planned development along Canal Road. Based on the renderings in the below article, they don't really give much detail on making Tower City the transportation hub or supporting the extension of the CVSR into downtown along the river. https://neo-trans.blog/2021/09/15/bedrock-riverfront-joins-downtown-lakefront-in-mega-planning/ Absolutely- that’s why I was thinking Bedrock would be the ideal local partner. They would further benefit by connecting their two hubs (CLE and Detroit) and also increase the value of their properties in both cities. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
January 14, 20223 yr 20 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: I’m convinced this is OH’s best shot at expanded passenger rail. Sad but true
January 15, 20223 yr Update on Oxford's Amtrak station: https://oxfordobserver.org/8053/community/oxford-amtrak-station-project-faces-challenges/
January 21, 20223 yr Ya'll think maybe the new intel development site could bring some interest into the state for getting more intercity rail?
January 21, 20223 yr 2 hours ago, RealAdamP said: Ya'll think maybe the new intel development site could bring some interest into the state for getting more intercity rail? Unfortunately no. Any efforts to get passenger rail are going to be separate and independent of this. OH 3C&D route is quite a ways west of the intel plant - it goes from Delaware to downtown Columbus. Any rail service to the east from downtown would require significantly more rail infrastructure upgrades and there isn’t currently the political will in this state to do it. The people with the power to do something don’t see any correlation between passenger rail and business. (If anything, this win might convince them that their current rail-free strategy works just fine.) The two things most likely to actually work, and that we should therefore place our advocacy efforts on, are convincing Brightline to do Chicago - Detroit via Toledo with a branch to Cleveland; and/or convincing Amtrak to increase service in existing Ohio routes. If we’re successful there it would provide a model for further expansion of passenger rail elsewhere in the state. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
January 21, 20223 yr 6 hours ago, RealAdamP said: Ya'll think maybe the new intel development site could bring some interest into the state for getting more intercity rail? Unlikely. As Boomerang_Brian noted the 3C&D route is well to the west of New Albany. But maybe Columbus could be convinced to run a (light?) rail line from a downtown 3C&D station to the airport and then out to New Albany and Newark. That airport connection would probably be more valuable to Intel than a rail connection to 3C&D.
January 21, 20223 yr 36 minutes ago, Foraker said: Unlikely. As Boomerang_Brian noted the 3C&D route is well to the west of New Albany. But maybe Columbus could be convinced to run a (light?) rail line from a downtown 3C&D station to the airport and then out to New Albany and Newark. That airport connection would probably be more valuable to Intel than a rail connection to 3C&D. Start with the 3C&D, then add the CCP (Chicago, Columbus, Pittsburgh) .......pipe dream I'm sure, but hey it's a nice idea lol
January 21, 20223 yr https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/what-the-infrastructure-bill-could-mean-for-pa-amtrak-expansion/Content?oid=20570348 I read that Amtrak is proposing a new round trip between Pittsburgh and New York City with an extension to Cleveland - would that be an expansion of the Pennsylvanian?
January 21, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, jofrko14 said: https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/what-the-infrastructure-bill-could-mean-for-pa-amtrak-expansion/Content?oid=20570348 I read that Amtrak is proposing a new round trip between Pittsburgh and New York City with an extension to Cleveland - would that be an expansion of the Pennsylvanian? Yes. I feel like that is the most likely of the Ohio related Amtrak proposals to happen because it is on an existing Amtrak route. Although it really isn’t clear if there will be ANY new Amtrak service ANYWHERE that doesn’t have new state support. Which is bad news for Ohio. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
January 24, 20223 yr On 1/21/2022 at 4:19 PM, jofrko14 said: https://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/what-the-infrastructure-bill-could-mean-for-pa-amtrak-expansion/Content?oid=20570348 I read that Amtrak is proposing a new round trip between Pittsburgh and New York City with an extension to Cleveland - would that be an expansion of the Pennsylvanian? Yes, but only if Ohio agrees to purchase the service from Amtrak. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 24, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: Yes, but only if Ohio agrees to purchase the service from Amtrak. And how likely would this be?
January 24, 20223 yr 25 minutes ago, Pugu said: And how likely would this be? If we have to ask, probably not very likely. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 28, 20223 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 30, 20223 yr Going to need the 3-C corridor up and running to carry all of those commuters into C-bus each day for all of the new Intel and Intel spin-off jobs. OK... I admit a lame attempt at humor, but there is a bit of wishful thinking that our political leaders are willing to greatly up Ohio's game here. Edited January 30, 20223 yr by DO_Summers wordsmithing
January 31, 20223 yr Would anyone know how much it would cost to build the 3C corridor? I’m trying to convince some conservative people to support rail and they asked me that. I’m sure they’re just setting me up as a gotcha, but I’d still would like to know.
January 31, 20223 yr Start-up costs for 3C+D a decade ago were just over $500 million but when the state won $400 million, it felt it could start 3C+D for that amount considering the $500+ million figure had a lot contingency costs in it. And the final engineering had yet to be done. I understand that conservatives often are focused on costs and don't consider benefits, but Amtrak estimates the economic benefits of 3C+D at $129.6 million. At at start-up cost of $400 million, Ohio receives an economic return on its state/federal investment after three years. At $500 million, Ohio receives an economic return on its state/federal investment in 3.8 years. Ohio won't have to pay the full cost of a purchase-of-service contract with Amtrak until after the fifth year. That contract could be anywhere from $10 million to $20 million per year, assuming the speed or frequency of the service is not increased by then. If both are increased, the service contract price goes down. See more at: http://media.amtrak.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/3CD-Corridor-Fact-Sheet-05-17-Final.pdf "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 31, 20223 yr Two State Reps. have introduced a Resolution of Support in the Ohio General Assembly in support of the Amtrak "Connects Us" plan. They have 10 co-sponsors including one GOP member of the House and are seeking more to advance the resolution for hearings and a vote. Here is a link to their press release: https://ohiohouse.gov/members/adam-c-miller/news/rep-sheehy-miller-call-on-ohio-to-invest-in-passenger-rail-108418?fbclid=IwAR36FsiL2AyGcvBjVrqpTiqQ_73kg6Z4PbS9qLvVA_t6BffdGoka7xPj93c
February 1, 20223 yr Just wondering if the 3C+D get a quick start with something like a 2 Budd car consist. Are there still Budd cars or the equivalent around? Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
February 2, 20223 yr 10 hours ago, Dougal said: Just wondering if the 3C+D get a quick start with something like a 2 Budd car consist. Are there still Budd cars or the equivalent around? There's always some train equipment around. Probably not enough, but something could be scraped together. That's not the biggest problem... Where do you stop the train? Columbus doesn't even have a train station. Neither does Dayton. Or Springfield. Or anywhere except Cleveland and Cincinnati. Where do you store and service the trains overnight? There's no servicing facilities capable of watering, refueling or accepting toilet tank dumps from train cars. There's no 480-volt standby power to keep the trains and the locomotives powered/heated/cooled during long layovers. There's no commissary facility to remove and store food items after each run, per US regs. How fast do you want the trains to run? Are all tracks equipped with Positive Train Control? Are all of the grade-crossing circuits equipped with constant-warnin time predictors with the maximum set for passenger train speeds of 79 mph rather than freight train speeds of 50 to 60 miles per hour? You don't want a passenger train to hit the crossing while the gates are still coming down. And you don't want the gates coming down a couple minutes before a freight train shows up. And are tracks maintained to passenger train standards with curves superelevated so passenger trains can consistently operate at 79 mph? Don't want them speeding up and slowing down. And since passenger trains run faster than freights, we're going to need a bunch of miles-long passing sidings, double or triple track sections, and/or extra crossover tracks. It's sucks to get stuck behind freight trains you can't get around. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 2, 20223 yr 5 hours ago, KJP said: There's always some train equipment around. Probably not enough, but something could be scraped together. That's not the biggest problem... Where do you stop the train? Columbus doesn't even have a train station. Neither does Dayton. Or Springfield. Or anywhere except Cleveland and Cincinnati. Where do you store and service the trains overnight? There's no servicing facilities capable of watering, refueling or accepting toilet tank dumps from train cars. There's no 480-volt standby power to keep the trains and the locomotives powered/heated/cooled during long layovers. There's no commissary facility to remove and store food items after each run, per US regs. How fast do you want the trains to run? Are all tracks equipped with Positive Train Control? Are all of the grade-crossing circuits equipped with constant-warnin time predictors with the maximum set for passenger train speeds of 79 mph rather than freight train speeds of 50 to 60 miles per hour? You don't want a passenger train to hit the crossing while the gates are still coming down. And you don't want the gates coming down a couple minutes before a freight train shows up. And are tracks maintained to passenger train standards with curves superelevated so passenger trains can consistently operate at 79 mph? Don't want them speeding up and slowing down. And since passenger trains run faster than freights, we're going to need a bunch of miles-long passing sidings, double or triple track sections, and/or extra crossover tracks. It's sucks to get stuck behind freight trains you can't get around. Sigh. And I suppose most of those things you mentioned are the responsibility of different organizations. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
February 2, 20223 yr 4 hours ago, Dougal said: Sigh. And I suppose most of those things you mentioned are the responsibility of different organizations. They do require the consent of different organizations. But it needs to be led by one one organization. Under recently renewed federal law but with a lot more money authorized (not yet appropriated), it will continue to be Amtrak along the Northeast Corridor and the states outside of the NEC. If the House of Reps had gotten its way, it would be Amtrak leading the charge everywhere. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 2, 20223 yr 13 hours ago, KJP said: There's always some train equipment around. Probably not enough, but something could be scraped together. That's not the biggest problem... Where do you stop the train? Columbus doesn't even have a train station. Neither does Dayton. Or Springfield. Or anywhere except Cleveland and Cincinnati. Where do you store and service the trains overnight? There's no servicing facilities capable of watering, refueling or accepting toilet tank dumps from train cars. There's no 480-volt standby power to keep the trains and the locomotives powered/heated/cooled during long layovers. There's no commissary facility to remove and store food items after each run, per US regs. How fast do you want the trains to run? Are all tracks equipped with Positive Train Control? Are all of the grade-crossing circuits equipped with constant-warnin time predictors with the maximum set for passenger train speeds of 79 mph rather than freight train speeds of 50 to 60 miles per hour? You don't want a passenger train to hit the crossing while the gates are still coming down. And you don't want the gates coming down a couple minutes before a freight train shows up. And are tracks maintained to passenger train standards with curves superelevated so passenger trains can consistently operate at 79 mph? Don't want them speeding up and slowing down. And since passenger trains run faster than freights, we're going to need a bunch of miles-long passing sidings, double or triple track sections, and/or extra crossover tracks. It's sucks to get stuck behind freight trains you can't get around. All of these are great points. Even if the Ohio government gets on board with the Amtrak plan, there is a lot of work to do. IIRC Amtrak is planning on just using all new equipment with Charger locos and Siemmens venture rolling stock like the type that's just debuted in Illinois. In a perfect world, the line would be electrified.
February 3, 20223 yr On 2/2/2022 at 6:42 AM, KJP said: They do require the consent of different organizations. But it needs to be led by one one organization. Under recently renewed federal law but with a lot more money authorized (not yet appropriated), it will continue to be Amtrak along the Northeast Corridor and the states outside of the NEC. If the House of Reps had gotten its way, it would be Amtrak leading the charge everywhere. I'll take whatever, but since states are supposed to lead.... if Ohio is smart, they will follow what the late former ORDC Commissioner Jim Seney's approach. His approach was to assume the host railroads would be paid market value for track access instead of Amtrak's discounted statutory rate and put operations out for bid, and I believe the state was going to be in charge of the equipment as well. It's what California does. They just use Amtrak to run the trains. However, we are in a different world now in one key respect, and how the state of Virginia is doing things with CSX illustrates it: it is the expectation of the host railroads that excess right-of-way width is purchased or leased from them for the construction of separate tracks for passenger operations. I actually agree with the approach. Obviously, it gets rid of the freight interference problem, but if the host railroads don't own the separate tracks, they really can't object to other operators besides Amtrak using them. That puts the states in a much easier position to use competitive bidding for operations. If anything can make Amtrak more transparent and offer better service, competitive bidding would. Edited February 3, 20223 yr by gildone
February 7, 20223 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 7, 20223 yr On 11/30/2021 at 6:20 PM, KJP said: There is a federal program Restoration & Enhancement grants that the sponsor of a new service can tap for operating funds for a limited period of time, something like 3 years. I haven't seen the new federal infrastructure law in detail so I don't know what if anything has changed with this program. But the sponsor has to agree to provide the operating support after the R&E grant expires. And the sponsor has to be a state, a state-chartered agency or a consortium of states. Apologies for reaching this far back but something occurred to me. What does state-chartered agency mean? Is that just the ORDC? Does it also include regional planning organizations (OKI, MORPC, NOACA)? Does that include transit agencies (SORTA, COTA, GCRTA)? I was looking at that route that's getting restored along the Gulf Coast again and it made me wonder what other organizations are a legal option for sponsorship of new service. I don't think it would work politically, but it was just a thought.
February 7, 20223 yr A transit agency or more likely a group of transit agencies called a joint powers authority established by the General Assembly could could oversee passenger rail development in Ohio. A similar JPA model was established in California for their three state-supported rail corridors. But ultimately the state provides capital and operating funding for each of these routes. A state-approved JPA of metropolitan planning organizations might also be possible. The state will ultimately have to be financially responsible for these services because they are the ones that have the greatest financial wherewithal to support them. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 15, 20223 yr I wonder what the reduction in roadway wear & tear would be for the number of car trips diverted because of an expanded Amtrak in Ohio? This dollar value could “count” towards the operating subsidy. Might be a way to get some so-called “fiscal hawks” on board. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 15, 20223 yr 10 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: I wonder what the reduction in roadway wear & tear would be for the number of car trips diverted because of an expanded Amtrak in Ohio? This dollar value could “count” towards the operating subsidy. Might be a way to get some so-called “fiscal hawks” on board. A did a report on that a dozen years ago. Cars do very little damage to road pavement. The big destructor was trucks. If we can invest in rail to increase the capacity for both freight and passengers, the benefits to roads and bridges would be significant. But then you would incur the wrath of the highway contractors which has a very powerful political lobby in Ohio -- the Ohio Contractors Association. Less bridge and pavement damage means less money for them. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 20, 20223 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 22, 20223 yr I wrote my local state rep and senator asking them to support state funding for Amtrak. I haven't heard from my Senator but my rep responded that this was a Federal issue and to contact Congressman Chabot. I'm not super hopeful about Ohio's prospects if our reps don't know what Amtrak's asking for. Here's hoping the cities band together to fund this themselves.
February 22, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, JaceTheAce41 said: I wrote my local state rep and senator asking them to support state funding for Amtrak. I haven't heard from my Senator but my rep responded that this was a Federal issue and to contact Congressman Chabot. I'm not super hopeful about Ohio's prospects if our reps don't know what Amtrak's asking for. Here's hoping the cities band together to fund this themselves. It sounds like we need to be educating our state reps and senators in addition to asking for their support.
February 23, 20223 yr On 2/22/2022 at 10:11 AM, JaceTheAce41 said: I wrote my local state rep and senator asking them to support state funding for Amtrak. I haven't heard from my Senator but my rep responded that this was a Federal issue and to contact Congressman Chabot. I'm not super hopeful about Ohio's prospects if our reps don't know what Amtrak's asking for. Here's hoping the cities band together to fund this themselves. I hope you sent a follow up email.
February 23, 20223 yr I just... Missouri has passenger rail. Indiana, for crying out loud. Do state politicians even bother to see what other states are doing, or contact other states' congressmen for insight/advice? “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
February 23, 20223 yr 3 hours ago, JB said: I hope you sent a follow up email. I am. I wonder if All Aboard Ohio has a form email I could share
February 24, 20223 yr 23 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said: I just... Missouri has passenger rail. Indiana, for crying out loud. Do state politicians even bother to see what other states are doing, or contact other states' congressmen for insight/advice? Unfortunately Missouri has cut back on its state support of its KC-STL train service, forcing the train schedule to be cut from two round trips to one. And legislation was progressing in Indiana to create a passenger rail commission to develop intercity services but the bill was killed by leaders who questioned why Indiana needs another commission. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 28, 20223 yr Betty Blair was responsible for getting funding for the renovating the New York Central depot in Elyria, for promoting passenger rail and public transit in Lorain County and just being a good person. They note her support for Amtrak and transit in this article.... https://chroniclet.com/news/293544/longtime-commissioner-betty-blair-dies-at-83/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 6, 20223 yr All Aboard Ohio has put out a call to action. They are asking people to sign a letter of support for passenger rail development in Ohio and for people to contact their legislators: The letter of support is currently on All Aboard Ohio's home page: www.allaboardohio.org Dear Members, It has been a busy few months at All Aboard Ohio and we are gaining significant traction with our efforts to educate the public on why passenger rail in Ohio is essential for progress. Now, we need your help. The Federal Railroad Administration is already reviewing proposals from other states for expanded passenger rail services. Ohio must act quickly to get our plans on the table. Please take a minute to contact your elected officials and let them know why we need passenger rail transit in Ohio. For your use, here is the link to a cover letter from AAO’s Executive Director Stu Nicholson and the fact sheet explaining how trains in Ohio make sense for everyone. If you do not know who your officials are, click here and use your registered voting address to find their contact information. Also, please take a minute to visit our new website at allaboardohio.org and fill out the statement of support. We will be using our list of supporters from this statement when our board members meet with legislators to show them how many people from all over the state agree that Ohio needs more and better public transit access and that passenger trains are a major step in that direction. As always, please reach out with any questions, comments, or concerns. Thank you, Beth Russell Public Affairs Director
March 24, 20223 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 25, 20223 yr I actually ended up writing to my area's state senator and rep through their .gov site's, but only my senator's office replied. Senator Romanchuck is apparently in favor of rail in Ohio, but only high-speed rail. It's deceivingly encouraging because it sounds real nice, but how the heck are we getting high-speed rail going when we can't even get something simpler off the ground?
March 26, 20223 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 26, 20223 yr I'm pretty sure this was in response to an email in response to support for expanded Amtrak service in Ohio. To be honest, I don't remember because apparently DeWine is inundated with so many emails it takes his Office of Constituent Affairs weeks to respond. But point is, DeWine either intentionally slow walking and being misleading about the reasoning (i.e. waiting on federal dollar allocations instead of taking the initiative for the state to support and facilitate Amtrak expanding services...) or doesn't know what needs to be done by the state to get expanded services. (Also very live possibility, I misunderstand what is needed from the states for this). So I'm not very optimistic that this administration will get us anything.
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