February 10, 20232 yr The thing about CUT is that it is less than 2 miles from Fountain Square, Findlay Market, the stadiums, Music Hall, and Washington Park. It's less than 5 miles from UC, the hospitals, and the zoo. No one in 2023 is going to hesitate to do the train/Uber combination. When you take the train into DC, Philly, NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. some people will take public transportation to their final destination or walk, but most people are going to grab an Uber. So I don't see the location being a huge issue. We can work on upgrading public transit or adding a circulator, but it's not a huge deal.
February 10, 20232 yr 18 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: The thing about CUT is that it is less than 2 miles from Fountain Square, Findlay Market, the stadiums, Music Hall, and Washington Park. It's less than 5 miles from UC, the hospitals, and the zoo. No one in 2023 is going to hesitate to do the train/Uber combination. When you take the train into DC, Philly, NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. some people will take public transportation to their final destination or walk, but most people are going to grab an Uber. So I don't see the location being a huge issue. We can work on upgrading public transit or adding a circulator, but it's not a huge deal. I don't know Cincinnati well, but if its less than 2 miles scooters and bike shares should be an option too, no?
February 10, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Luke_S said: I don't know Cincinnati well, but if its less than 2 miles scooters and bike shares should be an option too, no? Currently, this is extremely hostile. The Devou Good Foundation is working on making an "Arts Connector" from CUT to the FCC stadium along Ezzard Charles. That could mitigate this a lot. IIRC this should be complete before the end of this year. Any additional softening could come from the BSB project but so far ODOT really isn't going to do much.
February 10, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Luke_S said: I don't know Cincinnati well, but if its less than 2 miles scooters and bike shares should be an option too, no? Absolutely. As Dev noted, the last mile is a pretty hostile street (Ezzard Charles Dr). But there are plans to add protected bike lanes, so that'll help a ton. I bike it a lot but I'm braver (read: dumber) than most cyclists.
February 10, 20232 yr I feel like also increasing the frequency of the RT. 49 METRO bus could easily help. That’s pretty simple ride between Downtown and CUT.
February 11, 20232 yr It sure is nice to see people in office advocating for this. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 13, 20232 yr I really love seeing this kind of engagement on social media. I think there's a lot of grassroots support for Amtrak expansion in Ohio. I am a little perplexed by the naysayers to the project. Sure, it won't be 100% perfect if/when it gets off the ground but we have to start somewhere. Three trains a day is a good start (I'd love 3 a day from Cincinnati to Chicago too) and once the service is up and running people will probably demand better. All of the issues that people have pointed out are easily fixable. Edited February 13, 20232 yr by JaceTheAce41
February 13, 20232 yr I feel like the current number is a bit misleading - it would be interesting to see if you only looked at stations with a minimum of daily Amtrak service. That said, still great to see that 75% of Ohio’s population would be within 25 miles of an Amtrak station if 3C+D is established. (I should emphasize that 75% isn’t 3C&D, it’s all Amtrak stations so it also includes Toledo, Sandusky, and Canton (Alliance), which would not be <25 miles from 3C&D stations.) Furthermore, adding stations in Hudson and Columbiana to the existing CLE-Pitt service would add Akron and Youngstown to the <25 miles to station list. I.E. the 7 largest metro areas would be reasonably close to Amtrak service. Sorry Canton (#8 metro area and the only other Ohio metro >400K, or even >150k for that matter). Edited February 14, 20232 yr by Boomerang_Brian Added some more stats When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 14, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Dev said: I think the minor detour to Hamilton is worth it - especially if it helps reduce freight interference. But they missed the Oxford station on that map (not 3C&D, but on the Cincy-Chicago route) and is Middletown really not in the current plans? They also missed the Cincy north / Sharon station. (I suppose adding Hamilton means relocating the Cincy north station?) When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 14, 20232 yr Yeah, I'm surprised Middletown isn't on there. But then again, if they want "express" trains, then I suppose they can skip Middletown since Hamilton is between Cincinnati and Dayton. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
February 14, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, ColDayMan said: Yeah, I'm surprised Middletown isn't on there. But then again, if they want "express" trains, then I suppose they can skip Middletown since Hamilton is between Cincinnati and Dayton. I’m very curious how much time each “small” station adds. It seems like you’d have to have quite a few small stations to be able to skip for an “express” service to be appreciably faster. And if there are only 3 trains per day, hard to make an argument for express service. Hey @Lazarus and @KJP - thoughts? Here’s my ranking of additional 3C&D stations I’d like to see (and I’m assuming there is a Cincy north station and it’s only missing from the map because of an oversight, but that would be number 1 if it isn’t planned) in order: 1. Middletown 2. Additional Dayton station near Wright State / Wright Patt Air Force Base 3. Extend a couple trains a day to a new Lake County station, probably in Mentor 4. West side of Columbus 5. Edison, next to Mt Gilead and near Marion 6. Grafton, to serve Lorain county (Elyria and Oberlin are much closer to Grafton than to CLE airport) In a dream world where Tower City is the Cleveland station again, we could put a station in University Circle and that would be super awesome. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 14, 20232 yr Regarding Middletown, I wonder if they are actually proposing to use the tracks that are across the river in Madison Township ("West Middletown"), which would be a less appealing stop than Downtown Middletown.
February 14, 20232 yr 26 minutes ago, ink said: Regarding Middletown, I wonder if they are actually proposing to use the tracks that are across the river in Madison Township ("West Middletown"), which would be a less appealing stop than Downtown Middletown. Possibly. But I think not stopping at Middletown is a mistake. The dwell time at a station depends on the average speed and accelleration/deceleration characteristics of the locomotive. Electric trains have far superior braking and acceleration as compared to diesel.
February 14, 20232 yr 37 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: I’m very curious how much time each “small” station adds. It seems like you’d have to have quite a few small stations to be able to skip for an “express” service to be appreciably faster. And if there are only 3 trains per day, hard to make an argument for express service. Hey @Lazarus and @KJP - thoughts? Here’s my ranking of additional 3C&D stations I’d like to see (and I’m assuming there is a Cincy north station and it’s only missing from the map because of an oversight, but that would be number 1 if it isn’t planned) in order: 1. Middletown 2. Additional Dayton station near Wright State / Wright Patt Air Force Base 3. Extend a couple trains a day to a new Lake County station, probably in Mentor 4. West side of Columbus 5. Edison, next to Mt Gilead and near Marion 6. Grafton, to serve Lorain county (Elyria and Oberlin are much closer to Grafton than to CLE airport) In a dream world where Tower City is the Cleveland station again, we could put a station in University Circle and that would be super awesome. would each stop be like 20 min more?
February 14, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said: I think the minor detour to Hamilton is worth it - especially if it helps reduce freight interference. But they missed the Oxford station on that map (not 3C&D, but on the Cincy-Chicago route) and is Middletown really not in the current plans? They also missed the Cincy north / Sharon station. (I suppose adding Hamilton means relocating the Cincy north station?) Oxford is on the main between Cincinnati and Indianapolis and would be well out of the way of the 3C line. It's a similar situation with Sharonville. It's on the NS main heading into Cincinnati and is miles from Hamilton. If you want to include Hamilton (which they should) the best way to go is from CUT north to Hamilton and then use the CSX main from Hamilton to Dayton.
February 14, 20232 yr 33 minutes ago, Whipjacka said: would each stop be like 20 min more? Amtrak usually only stops for 5 minutes unless it's a designated rest break. On a short haul line like the 3C trains wouldn't loiter for long.
February 14, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said: Oxford is on the main between Cincinnati and Indianapolis and would be well out of the way of the 3C line. What's so effing screwy about this is we're now facing a situation where Hamilton might end up with two stations, one for The Cardinal and one for 3C. Then Cincinnati might end up with two stations - CUT for The Cardinal and the Riverfront Transit Center for 3C's. The station location that could serve both in DT Hamilton is this tiny wedge: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3942936,-84.5582223,268m/data=!3m1!1e3 The old station building was just moved out of the way to allow CSX to rework its tracks, but I can't find a description of their planned change. Currently, Hamilton hopes to build a new station for The Cardinal in the park west of this junction, but that station can't serve 3C's Building a new station on the combined route south of the junction puts it too far from Downtown Hamilton.
February 14, 20232 yr I've not seen anything about the RTS for the 3C. Everything I've seen is proposing CUT for all Amtrak service including the 3C. Using the transit center doesn't really make sense for this service either at this point. The old Hamilton station has been moved to Maple and MLK so while it can't be used for the Cardinal, it might be used for the 3C if it's used at all. Building a new station a little south of the old station location would be the best option IMO.
February 14, 20232 yr Quote When Gov. Mike DeWine announced that Ohio would apply for federal grants to study new Amtrak routes in Ohio, he did not include a route from Cincinnati to Chicago. But that route is still on the table as Amtrak itself looks to expand service on the Cardinal line, which runs from New York to Cincinnati to Chicago. There are two active federal programs currently for Amtrak expansion – one is a mostly state-based program where officials have to propose new routes, then seek federal funding from the federal infrastructure bill. Amtrak itself is considering applying for funding to expand its own long-distance routes, such as the Cardinal. The Cardinal is the only Amtrak service in Cincinnati today and arrives and departs in the middle of the night three days per week. An expansion could start with making the Cardinal a daily route, Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said, and go from there. “Our vision was four trains a day” between Cincinnati and Chicago in addition to the Cardinal, Magliari said. Cincinnati Amtrak expansion: Improved passenger rail from Union Terminal to Chicago still on the table
February 14, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said: Using the transit center doesn't really make sense for this service either at this point. I agree that it doesn't make any sense for three trains per day, but the market definitely exists for far more trains on 3C, and track upgrades between Cincinnati and Hamilton will make Chicago service more competitive and any improvement between here and Dayton will make Detroit more competitive. There is also the potential to use both the Transit Center and CUT in the way that the Northeast Corridor uses Boston's South Station and Back Bay. Union Terminal is more convenient for West Siders and has plenty of space for long-term parking. The transit center has a capacity for three terminal platforms. A 20-minute turnaround means three trains per platform per hour, or 9 trains per hour. That means nine routes could be served by hourly trains by the Transit Center.
February 14, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Lazarus said: What's so effing screwy about this is we're now facing a situation where Hamilton might end up with two stations, one for The Cardinal and one for 3C. Then Cincinnati might end up with two stations - CUT for The Cardinal and the Riverfront Transit Center for 3C's. The station location that could serve both in DT Hamilton is this tiny wedge: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3942936,-84.5582223,268m/data=!3m1!1e3 The old station building was just moved out of the way to allow CSX to rework its tracks, but I can't find a description of their planned change. Currently, Hamilton hopes to build a new station for The Cardinal in the park west of this junction, but that station can't serve 3C's Building a new station on the combined route south of the junction puts it too far from Downtown Hamilton. I'm not sure there are any plans to rework the CSX tracks in Hamilton. CSX wanted the old station removed due to its deterioration and proximity to the railroad tracks. The city relocated the building to preserve the structure, not necessarily to serve as a new rail station.
February 15, 20232 yr 18 hours ago, Lazarus said: I agree that it doesn't make any sense for three trains per day, but the market definitely exists for far more trains on 3C, and track upgrades between Cincinnati and Hamilton will make Chicago service more competitive and any improvement between here and Dayton will make Detroit more competitive. There is also the potential to use both the Transit Center and CUT in the way that the Northeast Corridor uses Boston's South Station and Back Bay. Union Terminal is more convenient for West Siders and has plenty of space for long-term parking. The transit center has a capacity for three terminal platforms. A 20-minute turnaround means three trains per platform per hour, or 9 trains per hour. That means nine routes could be served by hourly trains by the Transit Center. I think the Transit Center would be great for commuter rail and if you need to get to Amtrak, you could run service from Cincinnati to Hamilton or Sharonville with a stop at CUT. If the 3C and expanded Amtrak service happens and if Cincinnati improves transit to/from CUT, that are would be ripe for development similar to what Denver has done with Union Station
February 15, 20232 yr 17 hours ago, ink said: I'm not sure there are any plans to rework the CSX tracks in Hamilton. CSX wanted the old station removed due to its deterioration and proximity to the railroad tracks. The city relocated the building to preserve the structure, not necessarily to serve as a new rail station. I believe that I read awhile back that CSX wanted the station demolished/moved in order to modify the tracks in that area. Some of the Denver commuter and light rail traffic has been abysmal, even after construction of the new Union Station.
February 15, 20232 yr if you had a pile of your uncle joe’s infrastructure $ and you had to choose between this amtrak 3C plan or instead could fund a local commuter system for each of the 3C’s, which would you take? inter city or intra city rail? and no cheating saying both lol, make sophie’s choice! i would say keep an inter city amtrak row, but go with local commuter rail.
February 15, 20232 yr 54 minutes ago, mrnyc said: if you had a pile of your uncle joe’s infrastructure $ and you had to choose between this amtrak 3C plan or instead could fund a local commuter system for each of the 3C’s, which would you take? inter city or intra city rail? and no cheating saying both lol, make sophie’s choice! i would say keep an inter city amtrak row, but go with local commuter rail. The money required to do proper regional (commuter) rail would be MUCH larger than what’s being discussed for 3C&D. With that in mind, I’m voting 3C&D vs the amount of regional rail we’d get for the same money. Now rerouting the RTA Blue Line from Shaker Square to UH to Cleveland Clinic for $300-$400M? WAY more people would use that than 3C&D. It’d take more cars off the road, would to more to improve lives and communities, and make the entire RTA system more useful. Generally speaking, local transit projects have a much bigger impact than intercity transit. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 15, 20232 yr seems like we could have a Elyria, lakefront, eastlake/mentor service pretty easily if there was interest. Edited February 15, 20232 yr by Whipjacka
February 15, 20232 yr So what are the odds 3C+D rail happens in Ohio now? How many years until it becomes more likely than not that it'll happen? edit: I'm a supporter and want it to happen but don't know the process or the hoops we still need to jump through. I'm assuming there are many. Edited February 15, 20232 yr by Miami-Erie
February 15, 20232 yr About three years from the day they say GO. It'll take about two years to build the trains, then a year of testing/lawsuits/delays.
February 15, 20232 yr 16 minutes ago, Lazarus said: About three years from the day they say GO. It'll take about two years to build the trains, then a year of testing/lawsuits/delays. Thanks! My followup question is this: how long and how many hoops do we need to jump through until "they say GO"?
February 15, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, mrnyc said: if you had a pile of your uncle joe’s infrastructure $ and you had to choose between this amtrak 3C plan or instead could fund a local commuter system for each of the 3C’s, which would you take? inter city or intra city rail? and no cheating saying both lol, make sophie’s choice! i would say keep an inter city amtrak row, but go with local commuter rail. I would build a light rail commuter in each city before the 3 C rail any day of the week. Even if the light rail in all 3 cities cost more (depending on how much you would build out the lines in say Columbus or Cincy), you would get much better ridership and connectivity if you are connecting lines to where people live and making it easier to transverse the cities vs something like a 3-C rail that would be lightly travelled, take longer to travel between cities and little connectivity once you are in the city. For columbus, build a link from the airport to downtown along the 670 corridor, IN cincy, build it along the 71 corridor from downtown to Blue Ash (and maybe get Kentucky to expand to the airport), In Cleve, expand the Rapid to maybe develop a line South toward Independence. Connect people to the job centers. A lot more people will use commuter rail before they would go Amtrak between the 3 C's If you want to expand Amtrak service, expand existing service to Chicago first. See how demand there is and then push to develop 3 C service if the demand is there. I just do not think there is much demand there for that type of service.
February 15, 20232 yr Amtrak is replacing all of its original equipment and selling the old stuff on the secondary market. This means there will be tons of cheap equipment flooding the market as the new trains appear in the next few years. So we might be able to buy 1970s-era Amtrak trains and start operations more quickly than waiting around for new trains to appear. Back in 2010, the scale of the Ohio Hub plan was scaled WAY back because there weren't any old Amtrak trains on the market at the time. They were gobbled up by quicker-acting states. So most of that budget was going to be blown buying brand-new trains.
February 16, 20232 yr Amtrak’s new equipment would be used on the 3C line. If you mean that Ohio cities could get 1990s era equipment for commuter rail then I’m all for it. However, it would be a better investment to just purchase some new Stadler DMUs
February 16, 20232 yr On 2/14/2023 at 9:58 AM, Dev said: Regular train service from Toledo to Detroit Metro would be a major coup for the Glass City - is it too much to dream of hourly service between Toledo and Detroit? Or even more frequent?
February 16, 20232 yr 21 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: The money required to do proper regional (commuter) rail would be MUCH larger than what’s being discussed for 3C&D. With that in mind, I’m voting 3C&D vs the amount of regional rail we’d get for the same money. Now rerouting the RTA Blue Line from Shaker Square to UH to Cleveland Clinic for $300-$400M? WAY more people would use that than 3C&D. It’d take more cars off the road, would to more to improve lives and communities, and make the entire RTA system more useful. Generally speaking, local transit projects have a much bigger impact than intercity transit. I think it's important to think systematically about rail in Cleveland - 3C&D is a crucial part of the system, but what is available when a passenger steps off that train in Columbus? Will there be any alternative to calling a cab? Rail works in places like Chicago, New York, Boston and DC because of the comprehensive connections at rail stations and airports, to greatly reduce the need for automobile transportation, at least until the last mile or so. How exciting the possibility that rail might reverse the suburbanizing force of the automobile and reenergize the urbanizing impetus of trains and walking. I'll die before it would ever come true, but it would be incredible to witness that shift.
February 16, 20232 yr 8 minutes ago, westerninterloper said: I think it's important to think systematically about rail in Cleveland - 3C&D is a crucial part of the system, but what is available when a passenger steps off that train in Columbus? Will there be any alternative to calling a cab? Rail works in places like Chicago, New York, Boston and DC because of the comprehensive connections at rail stations and airports, to greatly reduce the need for automobile transportation, at least until the last mile or so. How exciting the possibility that rail might reverse the suburbanizing force of the automobile and reenergize the urbanizing impetus of trains and walking. I'll die before it would ever come true, but it would be incredible to witness that shift. A couple of months ago I posted an almost exact opinion and suggested that all three Cs had to ramp up local public transport if people were going to find the train more advantageous than driving a car. If I recall correctly I got some push back
February 16, 20232 yr 27 minutes ago, westerninterloper said: I think it's important to think systematically about rail in Cleveland - 3C&D is a crucial part of the system, but what is available when a passenger steps off that train in Columbus? Will there be any alternative to calling a cab? Yes. Passengers will be steps away from the existing CMAX line and COTA is working on 2 BRT routes that will also be within walking range. Who's to say that COTA doesn't bring back the CBUS once this gets approved? Additionally there is the Convention Center, multiple hotels, Nationwide Arena, Huntington Park, Goodale Park, LDC Field, the Short North etc.
February 16, 20232 yr 20 minutes ago, westerninterloper said: I think it's important to think systematically about rail in Cleveland - 3C&D is a crucial part of the system, but what is available when a passenger steps off that train in Columbus? Will there be any alternative to calling a cab? Rail works in places like Chicago, New York, Boston and DC because of the comprehensive connections at rail stations and airports, to greatly reduce the need for automobile transportation, at least until the last mile or so. How exciting the possibility that rail might reverse the suburbanizing force of the automobile and reenergize the urbanizing impetus of trains and walking. I'll die before it would ever come true, but it would be incredible to witness that shift. People who travel to airports still manage to get around at their destination cities. And train stations being downtown mean that the train traveler has many more convenient end destinations than the flyer. We have to keep in mind the inconvenience of the drive between the cities before overweighting the convenience of having your own car at the destination city. With the train, one’s travel between Cleveland and Columbus (or wherever) becomes either productive or relaxing, neither of which can be said for that drive. Plus there are many people who can’t or don’t want to drive. And many people who can’t afford car ownership but still need to get around the state. (For example, college students.) Would it be better for intercity ridership if the big cities had good public transit? Yes, absolutely. However, it isn’t necessary. Using Uber, or buses, or even getting picked up by friends/family are all options. Many worthwhile destinations will be walkable or bikeable from the stations. I think it’s really important to keep in mind that the service doesn’t have to be perfect for everyone to be really helpful for many people. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 16, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, Dev said: Yes. Passengers will be steps away from the existing CMAX line and COTA is working on 2 BRT routes that will also be within walking range. Who's to say that COTA doesn't bring back the CBUS once this gets approved? Additionally there is the Convention Center, multiple hotels, Nationwide Arena, Huntington Park, Goodale Park, LDC Field, the Short North etc. Yeah Columbus has probably the best location for a stop of any of the 3 C's. The convention center and Arena district could drive a lot of Amtrak traffic, and are right by the stop. I think it would be very popular for car-free OSU students, and it's a short straight bus ride or a long-ish walk for them. Downtown is also very close by bus and fairly easily walking distance. Just thinking about these possibilities is making me excited about future trips I could take to Columbus without ever having to worry about a car haha.
February 16, 20232 yr 36 minutes ago, acd said: Yeah Columbus has probably the best location for a stop of any of the 3 C's. Dayton's station location is elevated and right next to downtown. It won't cost much to get it up and going: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7551046,-84.1938677,348m/data=!3m1!1e3 It's unfortunate that Cincinnati's station issue promises to be the most complicated to improve. Before Kasich killed the last plan, we were so short on money that there was talk of building a temporary terminal station in Bond Hill, about six miles north of DT Cincinnati. The first priority in Cincinnati will be the fourth parallel track between the Ivorydale Junction and the yard throat: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1542434,-84.5395053,124m/data=!3m1!1e3 They will also build a second platform facing the yard bypass track under CUT: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1099891,-84.5383769,148m/data=!3m1!1e3 Accessing the Riverfront Transit Center from these same CUT tracks will require a new ramp down from the 1920s-era viaduct to ground level in this area: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1022089,-84.5377943,209m/data=!3m1!1e3
February 16, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Dayton's station location is elevated and right next to downtown. It won't cost much to get it up and going: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7551046,-84.1938677,348m/data=!3m1!1e3 It's unfortunate that Cincinnati's station issue promises to be the most complicated to improve. Before Kasich killed the last plan, we were so short on money that there was talk of building a temporary terminal station in Bond Hill, about six miles north of DT Cincinnati. The first priority in Cincinnati will be the fourth parallel track between the Ivorydale Junction and the yard throat: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1542434,-84.5395053,124m/data=!3m1!1e3 They will also build a second platform facing the yard bypass track under CUT: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1099891,-84.5383769,148m/data=!3m1!1e3 Accessing the Riverfront Transit Center from these same CUT tracks will require a new ramp down from the 1920s-era viaduct to ground level in this area: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1022089,-84.5377943,209m/data=!3m1!1e3 All of these improvements would need to be made if CUT is hosting as many trains per day as Chicago Union Station but we're talking at most six trains per day? All of which can be run around existing freight traffic since it doesn't appear that precision scheduled railroading is going away anytime soon and the railroad companies are running fewer and longer trains. Most likely a 3C train will arrive at CUT, wait 20 minutes, then head out the way it came. The 3c will be using the new Airo trains that are designed with a cab car on one end which negates the need to turn around. Any extension from CUT to the Riverfront Transit Center should only be done once the new Ohio River Bridge is completed and if/when Cincinnati has a true commuter rail line.
February 16, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, JaceTheAce41 said: All of these improvements would need to be made if CUT is hosting as many trains per day as Chicago Union Station but we're talking at most six trains per day? The freight railroading situation in Cincinnati is extremely complicated as the separate CSX and Norfolk-Southern networks use the same yard throat. This throat also leads to CUT (and the transit center). The throat was expanded from two to three parallel tracks around 2000. This allows CSX and N-S to stage trains before they enter the yard. Trains often wait 45 minutes or more on these tracks before entering the yard. A dedicated passenger track is necessary in order to avoid disrupting this activity. All of the Chicago and Cleveland trains will approach Cincinnati on the same 30 miles of track from Hamilton to CUT. This means Amtrak trains will routinely have to pass each other while in motion in this 30-mile zone in order to stay on schedule (or to try to get back on schedule). Inbound and outbound Amtrak trains won't be able to reliably pass each other between CUT and Ivorydale without the dedicated track, creating a large section of the route where outbound trains are "trapped" at one of the two CUT platforms, waiting for the inbound train to get all the way to the platform.
February 16, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Htsguy said: A couple of months ago I posted an almost exact opinion and suggested that all three Cs had to ramp up local public transport if people were going to find the train more advantageous than driving a car. If I recall correctly I got some push back You didn't get pushback. People just (correctly) pointed out that this is a very easy problem to solve. For example, it is a 10 minute bus ride between Cincinnati Union Terminal and Fountain Square. All you need to do is increase the frequency of that route and time it with the train arrivals.
February 16, 20232 yr 44 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Dayton's station location is elevated and right next to downtown. It won't cost much to get it up and going: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7551046,-84.1938677,348m/data=!3m1!1e3 That is a pretty good location; I really hadn't even checked where Dayton's would go, even though I'd probably make decent use of that stop. Cleveland's location is nice too, even if it stays on the lakefront - right next to Browns' Stadium, Rock Hall, Science Center, connections to the Waterfront Line (if it ever starts running again), and still relatively close to the rest of downtown, Playhouse Square, and CSU. That's really a shame that Cincinnati doesn't have an easy path to set up a really centrally located station.
February 16, 20232 yr It's not an easy problem to solve. -Most Cincinnatians have never ridden the bus -There is no guarantee that Amtrak will have on-time arrivals/departures at CUT with any regularity, given the preposterous complexity of the situation -The #31 travels in the Dalton St. Tunnel, making for a somewhat intimidating drop off/pickup for UC students -The #1 doesn't run on the weekends anymore -The existing streetcar system can't be easily branched to reach Union Terminal given the weird street layout in OTR
February 16, 20232 yr 27 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: You didn't get pushback. People just (correctly) pointed out that this is a very easy problem to solve. For example, it is a 10 minute bus ride between Cincinnati Union Terminal and Fountain Square. All you need to do is increase the frequency of that route and time it with the train arrivals. Sorry too much to read thru where exactly is the proposed stop for Cincy?? If it’s Union Terminal that would be the flashiest of all the Ohio cities, it’s simply stunning as everyone knows but not really downtown although it’s very close. If it’s the Riverfront Transit Center that would be blockbuster and I think the best in the state with The Banks, Both Stadiums and the business district all in one plus easy access to 75/71, StreetCar and Busses and 2000+? parking spaces in the garages underneath The Banks development. Edited February 16, 20232 yr by 646empire
February 16, 20232 yr It appears that the Dalton St. staircases were restored a few years ago but they're still gated off. Forcing the #31 to re-route into the CUT parking lot is a long deflection for that route, adding at least a half mile and several stop signs: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1090045,-84.5360537,3a,38.6y,320.85h,93.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skU1hQTsAwPHI_i3lUWsMcw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1107089,-84.5360228,3a,47y,226.51h,96.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sW5CU_tBbqX0q4No3u66VuA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
February 16, 20232 yr 6 minutes ago, Lazarus said: The #31 travels in the Dalton St. Tunnel, making for a somewhat intimidating drop off/pickup for UC students -The #1 doesn't run on the weekends anymore 10 minutes ago, Lazarus said: The existing streetcar system can't be easily branched to reach Union Terminal given the weird street layout in OTR This doesn’t really matter in that bus routes and scheduling can change very easily also I disagree I think a streetcar extension to Union Terminal isn’t complicated at all and the cheaper one of the extension proposals including the Clifton idea or NKY.
February 16, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, 646empire said: a streetcar extension to Union Terminal isn’t complicated at all It's extremely complicated. How/where does it branch from the existing system? On Central Parkway? On Liberty? On 12th? On 14th? How/where do the streetcars serve CUT? The #1 bus rounds the front drive but I'm not sure that the streetcar can or should do that. Do the streetcars instead turn around in front of the fountain? Do we reduce exhibit space in order to reactivate the old streetcar tunnels? Does the streetcar instead serve CUT in the Dalton St. tunnel and a new staircase in front of the fountain or maybe even beneath it to the main concourse? Does the streetcar instead travel to the back of CUT so as to link almost directly with the Amtrak platforms? For example, the tracks could travel down Hopkins St. and drop passengers off here: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1096637,-84.5380243,74m/data=!3m1!1e3
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