Need more mayors to be as vociferous 

 

 

Disclosure: I HAVE NO EXTENSIVE TRAIN KNOWLEDGE

 

I went and checked out the new Stories On High at the new Hilton tower last night, and while I was looking out from above, I got to thinking if there might be any alternative sites to a train station other than what has already been proposed.  Driving the road that runs underneath the Hyatt/Convention/Hilton by the current tracks, it seems very very tight down there for platforms.  I'm sure it can be done, but still wanted to ponder if there's any ability for another site.

 

Looking out, you can see the recently cleared out land next to Kemba Live and the baseball stadium along Neil Ave.  The track run right along there.  It's just a stones throw away from the current proposal but seems to offer much more space.

 

Second site, given the recent announcement that Spaghetti Warehouse will be starting a new modern life downtown, could there be any ability to put a station in the space where their current building is?  Tracks run along both sides of the property, and will become more and more accessible as the LinkUS rapid bus line gets put along Broad Street.

 

Again, I have very limited knowledge of the logistics of any other site working, but was just having fun thinking about alternatives as I looked at Columbus from above.

 

 

Edited April 13, 20232 yr by Gnoraa

Look for a station on the red line (likely start-up routing for 3C). It avoids making back-up moves and significant additional capital costs. Maybe someday 3C might be routed to one of the yellow routings to avoid as much freight as possible and operate at up to 110-125 mph. But that would only happen if we're seeing 6-10 round trips per day and a lot more political support and resources available.

 

 

 

Also, I've attached some images from the 2011 3C environmental document.

 

 

1 hour ago, Gnoraa said:

Disclosure: I HAVE NO EXTENSIVE TRAIN KNOWLEDGE

 

I went and checked out the new Stories On High at the new Hilton tower last night, and while I was looking out from above, I got to thinking if there might be any alternative sites to a train station other than what has already been proposed.  Driving the road that runs underneath the Hyatt/Convention/Hilton by the current tracks, it seems very very tight down there for platforms.  I'm sure it can be done, but still wanted to ponder if there's any ability for another site.

 

Looking out, you can see the recently cleared out land next to Kemba Live and the baseball stadium along Neil Ave.  The track run right along there.  It's just a stones throw away from the current proposal but seems to offer much more space.

 

Second site, given the recent announcement that Spaghetti Warehouse will be starting a new modern life downtown, could there be any ability to put a station in the space where their current building is?  Tracks run along both sides of the property, and will become more and more accessible as the LinkUS rapid bus line gets put along Broad Street.

 

Again, I have very limited knowledge of the logistics of any other site working, but was just having fun thinking about alternatives as I looked at Columbus from above.

 

 

Train stations should be placed where they maximize pedestrian usage. The Columbus station being at the Convention Center, and therefore also near the arena, plus right at HighSt for bus connections, is far more useful than the other sites you’ve identified.

 

There are so many conventions just for Ohioans - the station at the Convention Center makes it so easy for everyone who lives along the 3C&D corridor to attend (something like 60% of Ohioans). Same with games and other events at the arena. It’s ideal to not have to get a taxi / Uber when arriving.

RL Banks & Assoc did the station write-up for the 3C enviro report. This is what they had about Columbus.....

 

 

Probably can save $400,000 by eliminating the surface parking lot. Is this meant for passengers? Plenty of parking close by....

Why I'm not hopeful about getting Ohio on board passenger trains. Our legislators decided that saving lives at railroad crossings wasn't worth a measly $100 million. So they cut it, which would cause the federal dollars they would attract to go elsewhere. See the following from our friends at the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers & Trainmen:

 

Re: State Budget Cuts to Rail Safety and the Ohio Rail Development Commission:

Legislative Action Alert:

 

Please reach out to your Ohio State Senators ( https://www.ohiosenate.gov ) and ask them to restore funding for the Ohio Rail Development Commission (ORDC) to Governor DeWine's original proposal. This week is the deadline for amendments to Substiture House Bill 33 (the Operating Budget) and ORDC funding is critical to our safety mission and to rail growth among our short line divisions.

 

The Governor proposed annual funding of $10 million and a one-time grade crossing separation fund of $125 million to leverage federal dollars from the Infrastructure Improvement and Jobs Act (IIJA). The House version of the budget reduced the annual funding to $6 million and completely eliminated the grade crossing funding. Our request is that the Senate amend HB33 to restore the Governor's requested funds.

 

Talking Points:
ORDC projects added over 3,300 permanent industrial jobs in Ohio between 2015 and 2022. This doesn't include temporary construction jobs and permanent support jobs, such as rail crews that service the new facilites. Funding the ORDC has a direct link to job growth in Ohio.

The grade crossing separation fund provides an opportunity for municipalities to apply for federal dollars to separate road and rail in critical locations. Grade crossing separations cost in the tens of millions of dollars, and are simply not attainable for most smaller cities. The $125 million fund suggested by the Governor allows these smaller cities to leverage IIJA funding. If Ohio doesn't claim the money in the IIJA, another state will and when it's gone, it's gone. This is a once in a generation chance to bring these funds into Ohio.

 

###

Key changes to ORDC enabling legislation in the state transportation bill.  Thanks to @KJPfor passing this along:

 

the Ohio transportation budget bill that was signed into law March 31 (and goes into effect in 12 days)? 

 

https://search-prod.lis.state.oh.us/solarapi/v1/general_assembly_135/bills/hb23/EN/06/hb23_06_EN?format=pdf

 

It changes the makeup of the ORDC board (see Page 58).

 

On the next page, it has this change that we've wanted for a long time and which helps interstate rail projects -- and removes an excuse by the ORDC to do nothing:

 

The Ohio rail development commission shall prepare a plan for the construction and operation of an intercity conventional or high speed passenger transportation system in this state. The system shall be constructed and operated by the commission or its designees. The plan for construction and operation shall be based on existing studies, and shall state that the (system's initial route) system will connect (Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati and) any  points in (between those cities) Ohio and nearby states as determined by the (authority) commission.

I showed the strikethroughs (deletions) in parenthesis but the additions that were underlined didn't show up. So this is what that section now reads as:

 

"The Ohio rail development commission shall prepare a plan for the construction and operation of an intercity conventional or high speed passenger transportation system in this state. The system shall be constructed and operated by the commission or its designees. The plan for construction and operation shall be based on existing studies, and shall state that the system will connect any points in Ohio and nearby states as determined by the commission."

 

Previously, when we asked ORDC to consider low-hanging fruit like the extension of Amtrak service from a neighboring state like New York, Pennsylvania or Michigan, ORDC said they couldn't do it because their enabling legislation required that they pursued 3C first. Now they don't have that excuse anymore.

After a week back home in New England, I can’t help but be angry at the lack of good intercity transportation in Ohio.

 

I grew up in a town under 10,000 people in the most rurally-populated state in the country. I was no more than a 20 minute walk from a station with multiple trains a day to Boston (the ONLY major metro on the line) in addition to a bus service with connections to a major international airport. There is absolutely no reason why 3 urban areas in such close proximity, each with millions of people, should have anything less than frequent, reliable rail service let alone a spotty bus line that can’t be bothered to maintain preexisting downtown stations.

 

3C+D can’t be built soon enough.

Well said. Unfortunately when you have grown up in this monomodal, monolithic transportation situation, you don't recognize how bad it is.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

Well said. Unfortunately when you have grown up in this monomodal, monolithic transportation situation, you don't recognize how bad it is.

It would not be a terrible thing to give every American teenager a trip to a foreign country -- South America, Asia, Africa, Europe -- that would open some eyes.  Too many Americans have never been anywhere outside the US other than Mexican and Caribbean resorts and Canadian casinos.   Brightline in Florida is going to open a lot of eyes to what train travel can be like -- something few Americans have experienced.

4 hours ago, Foraker said:

It would not be a terrible thing to give every American teenager a trip to a foreign country -- South America, Asia, Africa, Europe -- that would open some eyes.  Too many Americans have never been anywhere outside the US other than Mexican and Caribbean resorts and Canadian casinos.   Brightline in Florida is going to open a lot of eyes to what train travel can be like -- something few Americans have experienced.

 

Could be. We have Acela and the Northeast Regionals overlaid on top of frequent commuter rail services, but too many people say that the Northeast Corridor is a different world with its 56 million people in 500 miles. And sure, it is. But if we have their rail service per capita as the Northeast Corridor, the Great Lakes' basin's 35 million people (with the core from Milwaukee to Montreal, or 1,000 miles) should have 25 trains a day in each direction. We're actually pretty close, with the Hiawathas, Wolverines, the Lake Shore/Capitol, Empire Service, and VIA's corridor services from Windsor to Montreal. Add a half-dozen more round trips in there with better connectivity with the Canadian services and we've got something. All the more reason why we need 5-6 additional trains each way on the Lake Shore Limited route.

A potentially significant complication to the Amtrak Connects US plan in Cleveland

 

 

Cross posted from AAO thread:

Ohio passenger rail enthusiasts, I have good news - Columbus Foundation Awards Grant to All Aboard Ohio To Study Economic Impact of Passenger Rail

Columbus, Ohio (July 18, 2023) -- All Aboard Ohio (AAO) has been awarded an almost $17,000 grant by the Columbus Foundation for the purpose of conducting a detailed economic impact study of the proposed revival of passenger rail service in the Cleveland-Columbus-Dayton-Cincinnati rail corridor. The Columbus-based policy analysis company, Scioto Analysis, has been hired to do the study with the aim of showing what the reintroduction of multiple daily trains in the 3C&D Corridor can generate in terms of business development, jobs and other community economic benefits for both the major cities and other station-stop communities like Crestline, Delaware, Springfield and Hamilton.

“We are grateful to the Columbus Foundation for this grant and excited about what positive economic benefits this study can determine,” says All Aboard Ohio Board Chair Erin Rosiello. “When you introduce good, frequent and reliable service, passenger rail on state-supported corridors is already demonstrating significant economic growth in and around station stops in states like Illinois, Michigan, Virginia, North Carolina, Vermont, Maine and California,” says AAO Executive Director Stu Nicholson. “It is also giving people a good option to driving a car or the hassles of flying to do business or connect with jobs, education, health care and more. And given growing climate change concerns, we certainly need more and greener option.”

 

The study is expected to take slightly more than two months once it gets underway.

 

https://www.allaboardohio.org/_files/ugd/903aba_f98f859c94bf4310a43affd92decd3c5.pdf

 

There is a fairly new website to create custom transit and metro networks called Metro Dreamin. It's very barebones, which makes it great on mobile and tablet but difficult to fully customize. For example, you cannot designate if a line is grade separated and instead just uses a broad generalization for transit mode to estimate travel time.

 

Anyways, I recreated the proposed 3C+D network on it. I had to make some assumptions, especially with station placement so let me know if something is off. I stuck with the existing Amtrak station in Cleveland but might change it based on KJP's suggestions. Interestingly enough, it estimates the travel time would take only 3 hours and 46 minutes.

3 minutes ago, Dev said:

There is a fairly new website to create custom transit and metro networks called Metro Dreamin. It's very barebones, which makes it great on mobile and tablet but difficult to fully customize. For example, you cannot designate if a line is grade separated and instead just uses a broad generalization for transit mode to estimate travel time.

 

Anyways, I recreated the proposed 3C+D network on it. I had to make some assumptions, especially with station placement so let me know if something is off. I stuck with the existing Amtrak station in Cleveland but might change it based on KJP's suggestions. Interestingly enough, it estimates the travel time would take only 3 hours and 46 minutes.

Stations are correct (Crestline, Delaware and Hamilton) plus add Sharonville or nearby for north Cincy. I’m a little surprised that Amtrak made a commitment to a station in Hamilton and thus far has not made a commitment to Middletown, but that is what they did. There is no chance that the initial service will be 3:46 (although it’s straightforward with substantial additional investment). With the proper infrastructure upgrades, 5:15 is achievable in the near term. 

37 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Stations are correct (Crestline, Delaware and Hamilton) plus add Sharonville or nearby for north Cincy. I’m a little surprised that Amtrak made a commitment to a station in Hamilton and thus far has not made a commitment to Middletown, but that is what they did. There is no chance that the initial service will be 3:46 (although it’s straightforward with substantial additional investment). With the proper infrastructure upgrades, 5:15 is achievable in the near term. 

I used the map that was previously released this year so that's why I did not include Sharonville or Middletown. I'll update it once there's more information.

 

If you don't mind, I added your caveat about the travel time to the description.

 

Call to action: the FRA had its most recent meeting to discuss the Long Distance Rail Study right here in Cleveland a few weeks ago. One thing we learned is that the FRA has NOT heard from enough Ohioans requesting more long distance rail service (as compared to other regions). No Ohio city made the list of most requested cities! We need to make our voice heard! Please fill at the survey at the bottom of this page (where you can also learn more about this program, which is separate from the Corridor ID program for routes under 750 miles):  https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org or email you comments to: [email protected] . FRA is requesting feedback by August 21 (Monday!)

 

Please submit the long distance passenger rail services you'd like to see! Make sure to include city names.

 

Here's what I submitted:

Dear FRA,
Thank you for collecting input on the Long Distance Passenger Rail Service. I live in Northeast Ohio. My number one request is daytime service in Cleveland. I believe that the most impactful long distance rail service improvement would be to increase service on the existing routes through Cleveland. I believe that the Lakeshore Limited should be served four times per day, the Capital Limited should increase to 2x daily, and the Pennsylvanian should be extended to Cleveland and on to Chicago with multiple daily trips. (Alternative to the Pennsylvanian extension would be new Chicago - Toledo - Cleveland - Pittsburgh - Harrisburg - Philadelphia service to connect the Midwest to the Northeast Corridor, and at 759 miles would just meet the new long distance guidelines.)
Increasing service on existing routes would make adding new stations more worthwhile. I think stations in Mentor (Ohio) to serve eastern Cleveland suburbs, Hudson (Ohio) to serve Akron and southeast Cleveland suburbs, and near Cleveland Hopkins airport would be extremely valuable, but probably only make sense when more service is added.
I would also love to see Ohio better connected to future Chicago - Atlanta - Florida routes. A new Buffalo - Cleveland - Columbus - Cincinnati - Louisville - Nashville - Atlanta service would enable connections to Florida, a very popular destination for Ohioans.
Furthermore, any long distance route including Cleveland - Toledo - Detroit would get the latter connected to the long distance network, opening up a major population center to add riders to the East coast.
Thank you

 

 

Thanks for the link!  I took this and adapted it for Cincinnati-specific needs.

Also just submitted some comments supporting Cardinal and Lake Shore service improvements!

28 minutes ago, JYP said:

Also just submitted some comments supporting Cardinal and Lake Shore service improvements!

Ditto!  My email stressed the importance of the Lakeshore corridor and it's connection to a 3 C line 

I specifically called out restoration of the Pan-American route for Cincinnati. Probably a low priority compared to other options but I still would like to see some analysis of what it would/could take.

18 minutes ago, Dev said:

I specifically called out restoration of the Pan-American route for Cincinnati. Probably a low priority compared to other options but I still would like to see some analysis of what it would/could take.

Pan American (Cincy-Louisville-New Orleans) is under consideration because it would enable Ohio connections to new Chicago-Atlanta-Florida routes. Even better would be extending Pan America through Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland and maybe even on up to Buffalo to better connect all those cities to service to the Southeast. I wonder a bit if our best chance at 3C&D is leveraging a long distance route that includes that route.

3 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Even better would be extending Pan America through Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland and maybe even on up to Buffalo to better connect all those cities to service to the Southeast. I wonder a bit if our best chance at 3C&D is leveraging a long distance route that includes that route.

Is that allowed under the authorizing legislation? Like how many edits can they make to the predefined routes?

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Is that allowed under the authorizing legislation? Like how many edits can they make to the predefined routes?

Yes! FRA long distance study is enabled to consider ALL potential long distance routes, whether they’ve been served historically or not! It just has to be more than 750 mile routes. Corridor ID is a separate program for routes under 750 miles.

 

Oh one edit: new routes must be on existing, maintained (freight) track. No new track for long distance routes, even in existing RoW. I don’t know enough about freight to know what all that eliminates. FYI @Dev

I’m not the most knowledgeable when it comes to routes and such, but I did voice that I’d like to expanded service for Cleveland, a rail stop in Mentor (for selfish reasons), and the 3 C’s corridor.

12 minutes ago, JB said:

I’m not the most knowledgeable when it comes to routes and such, but I did voice that I’d like to expanded service for Cleveland, a rail stop in Mentor (for selfish reasons), and the 3 C’s corridor.

Mentor station would be great if we’re able to get respectable frequency on CLE-Buffalo service. 

I'd add a stop at Mentor if we got just one new daytime round-trip CLE-BUF. And I'd build it on that new road North of Great Lakes Mall.

 

Either way, be sure to tell FRA, regardless of what you want. Gotta submit more Ohio service requests. 

55 minutes ago, KJP said:

I'd add a stop at Mentor if we got just one new daytime round-trip CLE-BUF. And I'd build it on that new road North of Great Lakes Mall.

 

Either way, be sure to tell FRA, regardless of what you want. Gotta submit more Ohio service requests. 

 

Plaza Blvd extension would be a good spot for a new station.  Also, the old station just east of 615 doesn't seem to be occupied at the moment.  Maybe it could be returned to its original purpose.

9 hours ago, jam40jeff said:

 

Plaza Blvd extension would be a good spot for a new station.  Also, the old station just east of 615 doesn't seem to be occupied at the moment.  Maybe it could be returned to its original purpose.

I want to say a bar occupies that building.

 

3 hours ago, JB said:

I want to say a bar occupies that building.

So passengers could pre-game while waiting for the train? Sign me up!

On 8/15/2023 at 2:14 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

Pan American (Cincy-Louisville-New Orleans) is under consideration because it would enable Ohio connections to new Chicago-Atlanta-Florida routes. Even better would be extending Pan America through Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland and maybe even on up to Buffalo to better connect all those cities to service to the Southeast. I wonder a bit if our best chance at 3C&D is leveraging a long distance route that includes that route.

 

Very interesting!

14 hours ago, JB said:

I want to say a bar occupies that building.

 

I believe the bar, All Aboard, only occupies the smaller, eastern portion next to the volleyball courts.  I'm pretty sure the main part of the building that had been a restaurant and later an event space (Gatsby's when I was growing up and recently Deeker's) is vacant.

 

EDIT:

 

Looking at street view, maybe my memory is failing me.  The building seemed much bigger as a kid, so maybe All Aboard is using the whole building, especially since the parking and only entrance is opposite from where the outdoor bar (old platform) and volleyball courts are.

 

I still think a train station could figure out a way to tie in with the bar there.

Edited August 18, 20231 yr by jam40jeff

On 8/15/2023 at 2:14 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

Pan American (Cincy-Louisville-New Orleans) is under consideration because it would enable Ohio connections to new Chicago-Atlanta-Florida routes. Even better would be extending Pan America through Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland and maybe even on up to Buffalo to better connect all those cities to service to the Southeast. I wonder a bit if our best chance at 3C&D is leveraging a long distance route that includes that route.

Back in the day there were through sleepers from Buffalo and Cleveland to Florida...

On 8/14/2023 at 10:40 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

Call to action: the FRA had its most recent meeting to discuss the Long Distance Rail Study right here in Cleveland a few weeks ago. One thing we learned is that the FRA has NOT heard from enough Ohioans requesting more long distance rail service (as compared to other regions). No Ohio city made the list of most requested cities! We need to make our voice heard! Please fill at the survey at the bottom of this page (where you can also learn more about this program, which is separate from the Corridor ID program for routes under 750 miles):  https://fralongdistancerailstudy.org or email you comments to: [email protected] . FRA is requesting feedback by August 21 (Monday!)

 

Please submit the long distance passenger rail services you'd like to see! Make sure to include city names.

 

Here's what I submitted:

Dear FRA,
Thank you for collecting input on the Long Distance Passenger Rail Service. I live in Northeast Ohio. My number one request is daytime service in Cleveland. I believe that the most impactful long distance rail service improvement would be to increase service on the existing routes through Cleveland. I believe that the Lakeshore Limited should be served four times per day, the Capital Limited should increase to 2x daily, and the Pennsylvanian should be extended to Cleveland and on to Chicago with multiple daily trips. (Alternative to the Pennsylvanian extension would be new Chicago - Toledo - Cleveland - Pittsburgh - Harrisburg - Philadelphia service to connect the Midwest to the Northeast Corridor, and at 759 miles would just meet the new long distance guidelines.)
Increasing service on existing routes would make adding new stations more worthwhile. I think stations in Mentor (Ohio) to serve eastern Cleveland suburbs, Hudson (Ohio) to serve Akron and southeast Cleveland suburbs, and near Cleveland Hopkins airport would be extremely valuable, but probably only make sense when more service is added.
I would also love to see Ohio better connected to future Chicago - Atlanta - Florida routes. A new Buffalo - Cleveland - Columbus - Cincinnati - Louisville - Nashville - Atlanta service would enable connections to Florida, a very popular destination for Ohioans.
Furthermore, any long distance route including Cleveland - Toledo - Detroit would get the latter connected to the long distance network, opening up a major population center to add riders to the East coast.
Thank you

FRA long distance study comment period deadline is tomorrow. If you haven’t yet, please submit your comments per the above post. 

this meme is for dennis kucinich 😂

 

 

 

I was just in Barcelona last month. While Spanish cities are obviously much more dense than Midwest cities, there is no rationale to go from the incredible level of service Spain has to what the Midwest offers, which is basically nothing. We certainly deserve something more than that.

 

 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

I was just in Barcelona last month. While Spanish cities are obviously much more dense than Midwest cities, there is no rationale to go from the incredible level of service Spain has to what the Midwest offers, which is basically nothing. We certainly deserve something more than that.

 

 

Toll all interstates to reduce traffic and pay for rail. 

4 hours ago, westerninterloper said:

Toll all interstates to reduce traffic and pay for rail. 

 

It will be considered a violation of Ohio Constitution, Article XII Sec. 5a. Many other states have a similar prohibition including Michigan but it considers railroads a form of public road. In Ohio, as long as the road-derived revenues are spent for highway purposes, such as improving traffic flow or safety, it can probably be used for rail legally. Federal funds do not have such a prohibition. So if the feds imposed a toll on interstate highways, the revenues from the toll could legally be used on non-highway purposes. There will be other legal challenges however, including by those claiming "double taxation." 

18 hours ago, KJP said:

 

It will be considered a violation of Ohio Constitution, Article XII Sec. 5a. Many other states have a similar prohibition including Michigan but it considers railroads a form of public road. In Ohio, as long as the road-derived revenues are spent for highway purposes, such as improving traffic flow or safety, it can probably be used for rail legally. Federal funds do not have such a prohibition. So if the feds imposed a toll on interstate highways, the revenues from the toll could legally be used on non-highway purposes. There will be other legal challenges however, including by those claiming "double taxation." 

Very interesting - thanks for the background. My comment was a bit facetious, but upon reflection, it seems that every country with a robust rail system also tolls their freeways. It's difficult to imagine a fare-based train system and free highways side-by-side. 

On 9/7/2023 at 10:40 AM, KJP said:

I was just in Barcelona last month. While Spanish cities are obviously much more dense than Midwest cities, there is no rationale to go from the incredible level of service Spain has to what the Midwest offers, which is basically nothing. We certainly deserve something more than that.

 

 

What's missing from this map is the "last mile" urban systems. All of the Spanish cities have dense cores and extensive rail systems; outside of Chicago, only MSP, STL, CLE and PIT have any urban rail (I don't count the streetcars in CIN and MIL), and then not nearly the density one would find in Madrid, Barcelona or even smaller Spanish cities. It's a generational investment in urban living. 

Pittsburgh also has an extensive system of dedicated busways. Milwaukee's streetcar is becoming a system as is Kansas City's. And while Detroit's streetcar is relatively short, it does provide the last-mile connection from the Amtrak station at New Center into downtown. I'm hopeful those systems will help encourage and support more density and be available as links to additional intercity trains operating at higher speeds. It's an evolutionary process.

58 minutes ago, KJP said:

It's an evolutionary process.

This is why 3C+D needs to start, even if it is slow at first.

 

9 hours ago, KJP said:

 

That's the spirit!!!

Edited September 10, 20231 yr by neony

I'm researching the issue of liability as it relates to passenger railroads.  I was digging into the Ohio Revised Code, but didn't find much about liability.  I did; however, find this outdated state law limiting passenger fares to 3 cents per mile! 😄

 

Yes, this website lists state laws that are currently in effect:

 

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4965.50

So what you’re saying, @gildone, is that not only will 3C+D be a game changer for passenger rail in this state/country, but it’ll also have super affordable tickets? ;-) 

 

Seriously, what a cool thing to dig up.