Not bad. If they threw in there the possibility of tapping a 100-percent federal grant to pay for it, the decision should be a no-brainer.

Don't know why they didn't get the "stimulus" $$$$ angle, as they (the Dispatch) knew it was in the Governor's "ask" to Congress.  But a great editorial for the normally conservative "D".

Wed 2/18 12:00 – 1:15 @ ACC – Regular Wednesday Lunch Forum

 

“Real Reasons for Rail” featuring Chester Jourdan, MORCP; with Gene Krebs, Greater Ohio; and Bill Habig, Transportation Matters.

 

To attend, click on the link:

 

http://www.columbusmetroclub.org:80/Default.aspx?pageId=49313&eventId=41676&EventViewMode=EventDetails

ODOT/ORDC are not seeking anything unusual. In fact, I would argue that we need the 3-C Corridor to enjoy the success of other states. This is just one of them....

 

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=2487581163844444274&hl=en&fs=true

High-speed rail group wants Jordan on board

 

February 15, 2009 - 7:02 PM

Heather Rutz

Published Feb. 16, 2009

LIMA - With support from Gov. Ted Strickland and President Barack Obama, high-speed rail appears to be at a tipping point.

 

A group of regional officials hope to get U.S. Rep Jim Jordan, R-Urbana, on board.

 

The newly formed 4th Congressional District Rail Task Force meets with staff from Jordan's district and Washington offices Friday. They will lobby for support of funding environmental impact studies, the next step in developing the high-speed trains, routes and stations.

 

Read more at:

 

http://www.limaohio.com/news/rail_34225___article.html/speed_high.html

Good luck getting Jordan on board. This is what he said to me when I asked him about why he voted against rail (HR 6003).

 

This was hopefully posted in another thread on UrbanOhio, but I think it's relevant here...even though this news piece is mostly about light rail -- I'm thinking about the policy aspect here.  I see the mayor of Charlotte and the head of North Carolina DOT in this news piece, and it makes me wonder what Ohio is up to.  Can Strickland be an advocate like Pat McCrory of NC or can he be even better?  How do people who follow Ohio politics more than me think he stacks up? 

 

http://theoverheadwire.blogspot.com/2009/02/pbs-program-now-talks-transit.html

 

or direct from: http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/507/index.html

Jordan will understand the issue a lot better, I suspect, after enough of his constituents speak up... and vote him out of office.

Jordan will understand the issue a lot better, I suspect, after enough of his constituents speak up... and vote him out of office.

 

I LOL'd and said...

 

 

 

Jordan will understand the issue a lot better, I suspect, after enough of his constituents speak up... and vote him out of office.

 

Too bad no one of any substance has ran against him (well, not in 2008 at least). I am thinking about registering back in Richland (I registered in Portage when I started KSU) so I can keep on hounding him about rail and public transportation in general.

Jordan will understand the issue a lot better, I suspect, after enough of his constituents speak up... and vote him out of office.

 

I'm in total accord with the sentiment.  The question is: has our mass media bought into the idea of State passenger rail enough to actually cause the populace to put heat on cavemen like Jordan?  I wonder, when the State's largest newspaper, the Cleveland Plain Dealer seems to view the world through ODOT eyes: roads, roads and more roads... This city and other cities and regions in this state have suffered too many rail/transit tragedies at the hands of one hard-headed, backwards man... Just recall the one of lastest victims: Cincy and its starter regional rail plan of a few years ago...

"The question is: has our mass media bought into the idea of State passenger rail enough to actually cause the populace to put heat on cavemen like Jordan?  I wonder, when the State's largest newspaper, the Cleveland Plain Dealer seems to view the world through ODOT eyes: roads, roads and more roads."

 

Can't speak for the P-D...but here's what the Columbus Dispatch ran for an editorial today...

 

http://dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2009/02/16/RAILed.ART_ART_02-16-09_A8_6NCSVC3.html?sid=101

Jordan will understand the issue a lot better, I suspect, after enough of his constituents speak up... and vote him out of office.

 

Too bad no one of any substance has ran against him (well, not in 2008 at least). I am thinking about registering back in Richland (I registered in Portage when I started KSU) so I can keep on hounding him about rail and public transportation in general.

 

The problem is not necessarily Jordan, but his constituents.  He represents the most conservative portion of Ohio and he really is doing what the people of his district want him to do.  Fiscal conservatives have a lock on that district unless someone (Obama) does something to change their minds.

But the delegation meeting with him (a mix of D's & R's) represents a broad cross-section of those very constituents... including county commissioners, township trustees, mayors, city council members ....and they were all elected by those same people from "the most conservative portion of Ohio".  If Jordan takes them lightly, he deserves whatever he has coming when he runs for re-election.

 

And if his opponent in that election has any smarts, he/she will use Jordan's li-service about rail against him. Jordan is nothing more than an idealogue: so tied to his political view that he can't stray from it, even when it's something that can benefit his district.

Jordan is nothing more than an idealogue: so tied to his political view that he can't stray from it, even when it's something that can benefit his district.

 

This is true. In the letters I have sent him about rail he always maintains the, "I am a fiscal conservative and my party doesn't want to subsidize rail," line. Nevermind the fact that highways are more costly than rail and we subsidize those. I was really hoping that a strong opponent would challenge him in 2008, however, that didn't happen. I can't blame the people in the 4th congressional district for choosing Jordan over his opponent. Hopefully I can convince some other people in his district to contact him and tell him how we all want rail and think that it could benefit our region (and Mansfield in particular).

 

And Hootenany, I am pretty sure that the mayor of Mansfield and several city council members support rail and want it in Mansfield (the majority of them being Democrats). As for the rest of the 4th district; it is historically conservative (I don't think that a democrat has won the district since the 1920's).

Clearly, there is much work to be done in the Ohio general Assembly...read on:

 

Legislators not sure now is right time for rail plans

Columbus Dispatch

 

With Ohio's economy losing steam, perhaps it's best to put on hold plans to connect the state's three largest cities by passenger rail, some state representatives said in a budget hearing last week.

 

Rep. Ross McGregor, R-Springfield, asked Transportation Department chief Jolene Molitoris whether the state should spend money on rail service at a time when an I-90 bridge in Cleveland is too dilapidated to carry trucks.

Speaking in a finance committee hearing on the state transportation budget, McGregor called trains "quite a romantic notion" but perhaps not the most practical thing in a recession.

 

Read more at:

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/02/17/CAPNOTES_ART_02-17-09_B12_69CUMNH.html?sid=101

Um, it's a romantic notion because we don't HAVE it .. we've placed priority on gas-guzzling cars that rail has fallen by the wayside. Stupid.

http://www.allaboardohio.org/cms/index.php

 

This is VERY urgent.

 

See the article below for background. I need you to call, e-mail or fax a brief letter TODAY to your state legislators (representative and senator) who represent you in Columbus, not just the committee chairs. The Ohio Department of Transportation is asking for statutory authority to invest state funding in passenger rail in case it cannot get 100-percent federal money from the stimulus bill to develop Ohio passenger rail service by the end of 2010. ODOT has 60 days to make that request to the U.S. DOT. No dollar amount is specified at this time since the implementation study won't be finished until September.

 

There is $8 billion in federal funding at a 100 PERCENT federal share available exclusively for passenger rail development, but there is always a chance Ohio will not be able to get all the federal funding it wants. It needs the back-up ability of state funding. Yet there will likely never be another time when the terms will be so favorable to Ohio. We can catch up to 23 competing states which financially support regional and intercity passenger rail -- 15 of which have less population density than Ohio. If the 3-C Corridor startup costs $100 million, Ohio would see 2,400 new jobs result with an increase in annual incomes of $50 million, according to U.S. Department of Commerce data. This is not about nostalgia or even about running trains. It's about creating jobs, providing mobility at one-third the cost of driving, travel productivity and comfort, as well as protecting the environment and our exposure to future oil price spikes. We cannot let this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity slip by.

 

<b>The basic message to your state legislators:</b>

 

Please support ODOT's request for an authorization to pursue funding for start-up of modern passenger rail service in the 3-C Corridor, which will set the table for expanded service statewide. Ohio desperately needs options to its drive-only transportation system to promote new jobs, greater mobility, economic development, environmental improvement and energy efficiency. Ohio cannot afford to miss this opportunity!

 

 

To find out who your state representative is and how to contact them (NOT your U.S. Congressperson):

http://www.house.state.oh.us/index.php?option=com_displaymembers&Itemid=58

 

To find out who your state senator is and how to contact them (NOT your U.S. senator):

http://www.senate.state.oh.us/senators/

 

____________________________

 

 

 

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/02/17/CAPNOTES_ART_02-17-09_B12_69CUMNH.html?sid=101

 

Legislators not sure now is right time for rail plans

 

With Ohio's economy losing steam, perhaps it's best to put on hold plans to

connect the state's three largest cities by passenger rail, some state

representatives said in a budget hearing last week.

 

Rep. Ross McGregor, R-Springfield, asked Transportation Department chief

Jolene Molitoris whether the state should spend money on rail service at a

time when an I-90 bridge in Cleveland is too dilapidated to carry trucks.

 

....

Legislators not sure now is right time for rail plans

 

There will be plenty more stimulus bills for funding in the future.  :roll:

Ahhh.. I wonder if Reps. McGregor & Grossman wax romantic about pain at the pump?  These people are so out of touch with the fact that people want more options to always having to drive.

Well said. Or as someone else noted in his e-mail to his state legislator this morning, he wrote:

 

Each dollar that Ohio does not receive for this project will be used for intercity rail service in another state.

 

This is the relevant section of the stimulus bill which was signed into law today. Please note the timeframes of the $8 billion pot of money and that all of this is relevant and applicable to Ohio, but only if we apply for it...

___________________

 

Division A, Title XII-Transportation.

 

The Federal Railroad section has two items:

 

1. Amtrak $1.3 billion:

<$450 million is for Amtrak capital security grants>

<$850 million for Amtrak>

+ Priority for equipment rehab;

+ No use for operating;

+ Money to Amtrak within 30 days;

+ Projects completed within 2 years;

+ Supplement not supplants;

+ Written agreement and compliance;

+ 60 percent in the NEC; and

+ $5 million to the Amtrak Inspector General.

 

2. Capital Assistance for High Speed Rail Corridors and Intercity Passenger Rail Service $8 billion:

They have combined three programs all found in PRIIA (PL110-432).  Those programs are High Speed (501), Intercity Corridors (301), and Congestion (302). 

 

+ The funds are available until Sept 30, 2012.

 

No fixed amount is specified for the individual programs.  Rather, a process is established to develop an orderly implementation of the provision:

 

+ Within 60 days USDOT OST must provide a strategic plan outlining how the funds will be used;

+ Within 120 days US DOT OST must provide interim guidance to applicants provided for each of the three types of grants;

+ US DOT OST shall waive the requirement of a state rail plan;

+ 100 percent federal funds;

+ Labor protection and other requirements; and

+ 1 percent for US DOT oversight.

There is no mention of any TIP requirement.

 

PLUS......

 

Passenger and Freight Rail Projects are Eligible for Highway Funds-Surface Transportation Funds (USC 23 section 133)

 

Passenger and Freight Rail Projects are Eligible under the US DOT Secretary’s Discretionary Program

 

+ Funded at $1.5 billion

_____________

 

Thus, I encourage all of you in various Ohio communities along passenger rail routes, either current or proposed, to learn the policies and procedures of the stimulus funding, especially the $8 billion pot. Again, this is 100 percent federal funding. You may never see this opportunity again.....

I think Ohio and Michigan should get more funding than the any of the faster growing states like NC, GA, Arizona or Nevada.

^ Agreed.

 

However, just a quick question:

 

Will this have a stop in Mansfield?

Sent my letter to Seitz, Driehaus, Mecklenborg, and one other guy.  Here is what it said for other Cincy people looking to send something Cincy specific.

 

I would like to ask for you to support ODOT's request for an authorization to pursue 100-percent, rail-only federal funding for start-up of modern passenger rail service in  the 3-C Corridor, which will set the table for expanded service statewide. Ohio desperately needs options to its drive-only transportation system to  promote new jobs, greater mobility, economic development, environmental  improvement and energy efficiency.

 

The proposed 3-C Corridor project will have profound impacts on the Cincinnati region as it will connect Cincinnati with Dayton, Columbus, Akron and Cleveland with modern high-speed rail.  It will also open the door for the Cincinnati region to be connected with the much larger Midwest Regional Rail Plan that would make Cincinnati one of a few select hubs.  Please support this request as it has tremendous value for our region and your constituency.

I sent an e-mail to my state representative and senator in Portage as well as the ones in Richland. This is what I sent to Senator Bill Harris (R-Ashland):

 

Please support ODOT's request for an authorization to pursue 100-percent, rail-only federal funding for start-up of modern passenger rail service in the 3-C Corridor, which will set the table for expanded service statewide. Ohio desperately needs options to its drive-only transportation system to promote new jobs, greater mobility, economic development, environmental improvement and energy efficiency. Ohio cannot afford to miss this opportunity!

 

I would also like to add that I live in Mansfield, but I go to Kent State University and I am registered in Portage County. So, this essentially means that you are not my state senator. However, I care a lot for the future of Ohio and the future of Mansfield and the surrounding area. I believe that a rail connection on the 3-C corridor could be very beneficial (whether it be in Galion or Mansfield) to the region. I ask you to put your party bias aside and think about the benefits rail could have for our region and state as a whole. Thank you for your time.

 

Also,

Will this have a stop in Mansfield?

 

I was wondering that as well. I know that you said that it depends on if it goes through Akron or not, but one of the graphics that you provided confused me. It showed the Akron alternative, but it looked like the stop would still be in Galion.

 

"With Ohio's economy losing steam, perhaps it's best to put on hold plans to connect the state's three largest cities by passenger rail, some state

representatives said in a budget hearing last week." What? This is exactly the kind of project Ohio needs to position itself for future growth.

It is likely that the Mansfield-area station will be in Galion. But we should know more in the coming months as Amtrak's implementation study progresses.

I heard John Boehner (R - West Chester, OH) make a comment the other day about HSR funding.  It was something along the lines of:

 

"We're spending $8 billion to build a pet project for Senator Reid to connect Las Vegas and Los Angeles with high-speed rail.  What is that going to do for the construction worker in my district?"

 

I was immediately enraged due to the fact that the 3-C Corridor runs right through his damn district.  He was either relaying the talking points meant to be conveyed and wasn't aware of the 3-C Corridor plan, or he was flat out posturing while totally ignoring the positive implications of this funding on the 3-C Corridor.

If he is your legislator, then please call or write to him and tell him you're enraged and why.

^Thank goodness he isn't.  Steve Driehaus represents me now, and I'm proud to say he is a support of rail/mass transit.

Ignorance...such as this should not be tolerate for an instant. They need to hear other viewpoints from their constituents and others.

Quote from Rep. Boehner:

 

"We're spending $8 billion to build a pet project for Senator Reid to connect Las Vegas and Los Angeles with high-speed rail.  What is that going to do for the construction worker in my district?"

 

Let's turn that back on him. What is HE doing to support the construction worker in HIS district? He's nothing more than an obstacle to progress and one with a big mouth to boot. :x

Here is the specific quote, I'm trying to locate a video clip of it somewhere...

 

"Tell me how spending $8 billion in this bill to have a high-speed rail line between Los Angeles and Las Vegas is going to help the construction worker in my district' date='"[/quote']

Quote from Rep. Boehner:

 

"We're spending $8 billion to build a pet project for Senator Reid to connect Las Vegas and Los Angeles with high-speed rail.  What is that going to do for the construction worker in my district?"

 

Let's turn that back on him. What is HE doing to support the construction worker in HIS district? He's nothing more than an obstacle to progress and one with a big mouth to boot. :x

 

Amen...it's about time to start holding Boehner and others accountable for the astoundingly ignorant positions they are spouting regarding passenger rail funding.  We don't need idealogues...we need leaders.

The Boehner's and Jordan's of this state remind us how Ohio got into it's current state of spending so little for transit and being one of the few Midwest states that gives no local subsidization for state passenger rail.  Too many backwards, balkanized districts that behave as though they aren't even a part of the State; they embolden yahoos like those R's quoted in the above Dispatch article.  Even with the State failing economically, these pols can sit back and vote against their own constituents interest in attacking bills like TARP and the new Stimulus bills, and now Amtrak.  I'd like to be optimistic that a few harsh letters from enlightened UOers and others will do the trick, but... If these pols can get away with this crap in these tough times, there's really no stopping them ... and our State will continue to regress with, as others have noted, the Stimulus & Amtrak $$ going happily to other more progressive states.

 

Again, I ask, can we really get our major newspapers, bloggers and other local media to buy into the 3-C's plan?  I don't mean a nicey, nicey editorial here and there about the benefits of Amtrak & passenger rail -- Hello!, if people merely open their eyes, and maybe visit somewhere else once in a while -- I think they already know that-- I mean one attacking these holdout, troglodyte Republican congressmen to the extent of seriously threatening their seats in 2010?  I feel this is what it's going to take to affect serious and real change around here.

When I lived in Oxford, Boehner was my representative.  In the 2000 elections the Dems actually ran someone against him but I never heard a peep from a campaign.  Hopefully that changes. 

Well, I think Boehner and others of his ilk should hear from us, starting with All Aboard Ohio.

The Boehner's and Jordan's of this state remind us how Ohio got into it's current state of spending so little for transit and being one of the few Midwest states that gives no local subsidization for state passenger rail.  Too many backwards, balkanized districts that behave as though they aren't even a part of the State; they embolden yahoos like those R's quoted in the above Dispatch article.  Even with the State failing economically, these pols can sit back and vote against their own constituents interest in attacking bills like TARP and the new Stimulus bills, and now Amtrak. ...

 

Again, I ask, can we really get our major newspapers, bloggers and other local media to buy into the 3-C's plan?  I don't mean a nicey, nicey editorial here and there about the benefits of Amtrak & passenger rail -- Hello!, if people merely open their eyes, and maybe visit somewhere else once in a while -- I think they already know that-- I mean one attacking these holdout, troglodyte Republican congressmen to the extent of seriously threatening their seats in 2010?  I feel this is what it's going to take to affect serious and real change around here.

The automobile, oil, and highway construction lobby have wielded considerable influence and made Ohio a very automobile-dependent state.  Even Democratic legislators were responsible for this situation.  My hunch is that they did not understand the issue.  They were more concerned with other issues.  Never heard of peak oil.

 

Airlines lobbied to kill rail funding, too.

 

Boehner is a jerk.

What we need is to put the Republicans who do support rail -- and there are a lot of them -- in positions of leadership among rail advocates. Their visibility will show that rail and transit are bipartisan -- actually NONpartisan -- issues. It will make it harder for the other, head-in-the-sand Republicans to dismiss rail.

If it is true that the $8 billion for high speed rail is for a pet project -- Las Vegas to Los Angeles -- does Ohio hope to see any of it? Or is this just an urban legend?

It's an urban legend. Read the Politico piece that came out in the last few days and was posted at http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,14971.msg369152.html#msg369152.

 

Given the large amount of money, the wide time frame and the other less strenuous limitations on the high-speed/passenger rail funding compared with other stimulus components, I'd say Ohio has as good a chance as any other state/project to receive funding. Therefore it is up to us to win it.

If it is true that the $8 billion for high speed rail is for a pet project -- Las Vegas to Los Angeles -- does Ohio hope to see any of it? Or is this just an urban legend?

Video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29245227

KJP you might be able to answer this...

 

I was looking at California's high-speed rail plans and they are planning for "bullet trains" that will run at 200+mph.  Why is the Ohio Hub, and 3-C Corridor, only planning for trains that will top out at something like 120mph?  Is it the existing rail stock, price tag, grade separation issues?

 

I'm just thinking that this is our chance to do high-speed rail, so we might as well do it right.  I think a lot more people will be sold on a HSR system that runs at 200+mph than one that outpaces their car by about 40mph.

Ya gotta learn to walk before you can run.  California has developed a highly-sophisticated conventional speed (79 MPH) system of state-supported passenger trains: effectively creating a market for higher-speed service by giving people exposure to what good passenger rail service can do.

 

It's going top take that same incremental approach in Ohio to build a foundation for better, faster trains...even beyond what is planned in the Ohio Hub (which is 110 MPH service).  But we won't advance an inch unless we convince our legislators that this is a wise investment that will pay off in jobs, new business and other benefits. 

Probably way too early to ask, but is the assumption here that the 3-C corridor will be limited to the (I think federal) law saying 79 mph is the speed limit for trains where there are crossings? 

Ya gotta learn to walk before you can run. California has developed a highly-sophisticated conventional speed (79 MPH) system of state-supported passenger trains: effectively creating a market for higher-speed service by giving people exposure to what good passenger rail service can do.

 

It's going top take that same incremental approach in Ohio to build a foundation for better, faster trains...even beyond what is planned in the Ohio Hub (which is 110 MPH service). But we won't advance an inch unless we convince our legislators that this is a wise investment that will pay off in jobs, new business and other benefits.

 

So assuming that we start with 79 mph trains, would upgrading to something faster (like the 200mph+ trains that Rando referenced) be as simple as just swapping out the trains themselves?  Or would there be other infrastructure changes like power and track that would require modification?

Everything would have to be rebuilt.  There would need to be exclusive right-of-way aside from the city approaches, concrete ties, cantenary, superelevated curves, etc.  True TGV-style high speed rail operates on track that is regularly inspected to ensure proper gauge and no shifting of the ballast.  The Acela was designed to travel as fast as possible on existing rail.   

Honestly, we only end up with Euro/Japanese high speed rail, if it turns out that we have become a social democracy and have abandoned any pretense to be a market economy.

Huh?  Then how did we end up with the worlds largest public work project ever built- the Interstate Highway System?  Free Markets?

No, we were a social democratic state at that point, which we disassembled for bad and good reasons since the mid-70s. Nonetheless, there is aspect of the individual freedom that the highways can provide that takes at least a couple paragraphs to make work for high speed rail (there is a kind of freedom rail travel provides but it isn't as initially clear especially w/o an integrated transit system).