Here is the specific quote, I'm trying to locate a video clip of it somewhere...

 

"Tell me how spending $8 billion in this bill to have a high-speed rail line between Los Angeles and Las Vegas is going to help the construction worker in my district' date='"[/quote']

 

God, I HATE BOEHNER!!!!!

 

Why don't we create a thread dedicated to all of the stupid things he does?

 

In fact, I think I'll do that, because not supporting this is digusting.

...Nonetheless, there is aspect of the individual freedom that the highways can provide that takes at least a couple paragraphs to make work for high speed rail ...

Nobody is going to feel very free when the world can only produce 10 million barrels of oil per day and it will cost you five thousand dollars to drive five thousand miles per year.

I would like to email or otherwise lobby my state representatives for the 3C rail plan (that can be funded by the new stimulus money).  I would like to tell them that they could make good use of it traveling from the metro Cleveland area to the capitol in Columbus every week.  Save fifty bucks in gas and pay fare instead.  Legislators stay in hotels near the capitol for Monday-Thursday while the legislature is in session, so they could travel sans car.  They would leave their personal cars at the Cleveland Amtrak parking lot.  Save on Columbus parking, too, hey! 

 

I would presume that the Columbus station would be at the location of the Union Station about ten blocks north of the capitol.  Is there a good circulator/transit bus to move people to the capitol?  Even better would be if there was a special bus sent there to meet the train when it arrived.  There would be a large number of legislators, staff, lobbyists, and suppliers who could use such connections to the Ohio capitol , the Vern Riffe building, and various law and interest group buildings on that block.

 

For that matter, it would be nice if there was a regularly scheduled shuttle to take students, faculty, and staff up High Street to various point on campus.  Would any rail promoters here like to take a stab at this?

The "freedom of the open road" is a myth perpetuated by the autmoakers.  Look at the bulk of their advertising: the 2009 Belchfire flying down a desert highway or through a mountain pass with nary a stray rabbit, much less a car or semi, in sight.  When's the last time any of us were able to drive tlike that?.... or do power turns and drifts on an equally deserted downtown street.... yeah, I do that at Broad & High all the time.  :roll:

 

Freedom on a train: fast, frequent, room to move and walk around.... beer in the bar car.

 

How's that for less than two paragraphs?

Probably way too early to ask, but is the assumption here that the 3-C corridor will be limited to the (I think federal) law saying 79 mph is the speed limit for trains where there are crossings?  

 

The speed limit of passenger trains is limited by the maintenance standards of the tracks and trains, and the type of traffic control system governing the movement of trains. Thus, even if you have the finest track and trains available, they cannot exceed 79 mph if a certain type of traffic control system is available. To exceed 79 mph requires the presence of a signal system that automatically interacts with the train's braking system. Thus if the train enters a segment of track where a caution or stop signal is displayed and the locomotive engineer doesn't slow or stop the train, the signal system will trigger the train's brakes.

 

In Canada, trains can travel up to 95 mph without such a system available. In the UK, 125 mph is the cutoff point. It was rumored that some highway advocate in the 1950s required the USA to institute such a low speed limit of 79 mph in the absence of an interactive signal system.

 

As a sidelight, the Congress passed a law last fall which requires that any railroad line which hosts passenger trains or the regular shipment of hazardous materials must have installed by 2015 an interactive signal system, often dubbed Positive Train Control. Thus, the 3-C Corridor will need such a system. On segments where there is lighter-density freight traffic or an additional track is laid for passenger trains, plus there are improvements made to timing circuits for gates/flashers at road crossings, it is highly likely that a top speed of 90 mph for 3-C Corridor passenger trains could be achieved.

 

In fact, I consider it so likely that we ought not to be talking 79 mph 3-C trains from the outset of service, but 90 mph trains.

Please do e-mail them. See:

 

http://www.allaboardohio.org/cms/index.php

 

The basic message to your state legislators:

 

Please support ODOT’s request for an authorization to pursue funding for start-up of modern passenger rail service in the 3-C Corridor, which will set the table for expanded service statewide. Ohio desperately needs options to its drive-only transportation system to promote new jobs, greater mobility, economic development, environmental improvement and energy efficiency. Ohio cannot afford to miss this opportunity!

 

To find out who your state representative is and how to contact them (NOT your U.S. Congressperson):

http://www.house.state.oh.us/index.php?option=com_displaymembers&Itemid=58

 

To find out who your state senator is and how to contact them (NOT your U.S. senator):

http://www.senate.state.oh.us/senators/

This is what I found to describe the location of the Columbus terminal.  Truly brief--no mention of who they are trying to serve and my questions of how to get to the capitol:

 

This study assumes that the downtown Columbus station would be located between High

and Front Streets. There is an alternative station site slightly farther west along the

Buckeye line in the approximate vicinity of the CP Hocking rail junction. Any station

location along the Buckeye Line between High Street and Neil Avenue may require

reconfiguring and/or reconstructing the Convention Center roadway and pedestrian

overpasses. Finally, a rail station directly under the Civic Center as planned in the early

1980’s High Speed rail studies may also be a possibility, but because of the tight space

restrictions east of CP-138, a passenger station there would probably be feasible only if

all daytime freight trains were rerouted out of the downtown area.

 

http://www2.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/Ohio%20Hub/Website/ordc/Ohio_Hub_Final_Docs/Final_Document_Rev_12_06_07/Chapter_3_Operating_Strategies_Station_Locations_and_Fleet_Requirements.pdf

Thanks for the answer. 

 

^So then, what is the speed limit of a new, standard (if one exists), Amtrak diesel-powered train, assuming positive train control is in place, and the track condition and track "geometry" isn't limiting? 

I'm not so worried about the top speed of these trains -- having more trains per day would make them more useful.  There are 5 daily trains between Portland and Seattle.  The combined metro populations of those two MSA's is a little over 5 million.  The combine metro populations of Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus, Akron, and Cleveland is approximately 8 million. 

Thanks for the answer.

 

^So then, what is the speed limit of a new, standard (if one exists), Amtrak diesel-powered train, assuming positive train control is in place, and the track condition and track "geometry" isn't limiting?

 

Likely 90 mph.

 

Jake is right, though. I've said it a million times before. The average traveler's hierarchy of need is, in order of importance:

 

1. Cost

2. Frequency

3. Reliability

4. Speed

^yes, I know what good transit options look like.  I was merely curious about what was possible with current rolling stock.  If it came down to choosing 1) 120 mph system + 2 trains a day vs 2) 90 mph system + 4 trains a day, I'd go with 2).

There are few good locations in downtown Columbus for a train station. The best location, from a passenger standpoint would at High St, at the site of the old Union Station. However, the Convention Center, overpasses and road/bike path at trackside have severely constricted this area. If I had my way, I'd demolish the overpasses (which are not used for much) and shear off about 60 ft off the southernmost edge of the Convention Center. That would be costly and you still need to keep passenger and freight trains from interfering with each other.

 

The area between High and Front Streets have the same problem. New construction limits what can be done here.

 

West of that site is some open land, just east of the Neil Ave overpass. A station could be built here and it would tie in well with nearby attractions.

 

There is a fly in the ointment concerning these last two sites: You must either build a new bridge over the Scioto River to connect with the 3-C main, or have backup moves. If there is no bridge any train from Cleveland would pull into the station head-on and then have to back up to the junction under High St, before heading to Cincinnati. Not desireable.

 

When the cost of building this bridge is factored in, it might be more cost-effective to revamp the Convention Center, which would give it the advantage of having trains serving it directly. That's unusual in this country.

 

That said, i would not worry too much about this right now. it's more important to let your elected officials know you want the trains. The details will be resolved later.

The "hierarchy" part of my posting was directed at the comments of others. Sorry for any confusion.

A little off topic, but is there a reason why there are three threads for basically the same thing? (3-C Corridor, All Aboard Ohio, and Ohio Hub). It seems like much of the content could be combined.

Yea, I've had the same question. What gives?  8-)

3-C Corridor is a project, like the I-71 third-lane project.

 

Ohio Hub is a plan, like Access Ohio which spurred the I-71 third lane.

 

All Aboard Ohio is an advocacy group, like the Ohio Contractors Association which pushed for the third-lane project.

 

But All Aboard Ohio is just one advocacy group pushing 3-C. It also has other priorities including West Shore Corridor, Fix-It First/Ohio Stations project, etc. which don't have much to do with 3-C.

 

Also, someone who lives in Toledo or Youngstown probably doesn't care much about 3-C Corridor, but the Ohio Hub plan does affect them, as does All Aboard Ohio's efforts.

KJP I agree reliability and frequency are the priority.  If you miss a New York train in Boston, there's another one in 90 minutes.  If you miss a connection on Greyhound, you might be sitting there for the next 8 hours.  Two trains a day is a good start, and I'm not sure that 3 is much of an advantage over that, but when you get to having 5+ trains a day, then this route could become a big part of Ohio's mental landscape.  Also I tend to think that having stops in the smaller towns makes sense starting out and that express runs can be added later. 

Mansfield official urges Jordan toward rail

By LINDA MARTZ • News Journal • February 18, 2009

 

MANSFIELD — A group of regional officials hopes to get U.S. Rep. Jim Jordan on board supporting a high speed rail system for Ohio.

 

Read more at:

 

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20090218/NEWS01/90218022

 

I don't think was posted here yet....

________________

 

http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/WDTN_Ohio_rail_travel_coming_to_Dayton

 

Ohio rail travel coming to Dayton

The first trains could roll through Dayton by 2010

Updated: Thursday, 05 Feb 2009, 6:10 PM EST

Published : Thursday, 05 Feb 2009, 6:10 PM EST

 

Reported by Sonu Wasu, WDTN

DAYTON, Ohio (WDTN) - You may soon be able to travel in Ohio by jumping on a rail system.

 

The Governor's on board with the rail plan that would stop in Ohio's three largest cities, including Dayton.

 

Rail advocates with All Aboard Ohio said for the first time in 40 years, rail travel is not just an idea that has been chugging along, its dream supported by Governor Ted Strickland, and that means a lot.

 

....

Please, please, please make the rail puns stop.  At least we're not Chattanooga. 

Very nice, and pleasant to see the governor is behind this. A shame that it won't be high speed.

I do think they need dedicated rail lines and no at grade crossings.

SanduskyRegister.com Front Article

 

U.S. Rep. Kaptur wants high-speed train to arrive at Sandusky station

By TOM JACKSON

Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:10 AM EST

SANDUSKY

 

A high-speed train could soon roll down the track to Sandusky.

 

The new economic stimulus bill that President Barack Obama signed Tuesday contains $8 billion to develop high-speed passenger rail service.

 

And it looks like this area'slegislators are prepared to fight for a high speed rail that connects in Sandusky.

 

Read more at:

 

http://www.sanduskyregister.com/articles/2009/02/19/front/1165703.txt

 

*****************************************

 

February 18, 2009

Mansfield official urges Jordan toward rail

 

By LINDA MARTZ

News Journal

 

MANSFIELD — A group of regional officials hopes to get U.S. Rep. Jim Jordan on board supporting a high speed rail system for Ohio.

 

Read more at:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20090218/NEWS01/90218022/1002/NEWS01

Guys, we're at the stage when the mud-choked roads in America's countrysides were getting paved starting after the 1916 Good Roads bill passed Congress. Going to high-speed rail is like building the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and that didn't come until 1940 -- a 24-year advancement timeline. We might be able to accelerate that a bit with high-speed rail development, but California will be the first one to build it. Yet even though voters there passed a $10 billion bond issue last fall, they still have years of environmental impact analyses and engineering work to do. They're at least 10 years from turning a wheel on a high-speed train.

Map Of Potential High-Speed Rail Built By The Stimulus http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/map-of-potential-high-spe_n_167804.html

In a last-minute change, the total quantity of funds available was increased. But there's no special plan for Las Vegas. The money will be spread all across the country. As it happens, I think an LA-Vegas HSR line is a perfectly reasonable project. But in practice the areas that will get a leg up should be the Federal Railroad Administration's officially designated high-speed rail corridors. As it happens, LA-Vegas doesn't make the cut. But guess who does have such a corridor? Ohio!

Odd they don't connect the east coast and Chicago networks.  Is that a misprint?  It's so much better than what we have now it seems stupid to complain, but it also seems stupid to build all that and not connect Cle with Pitt.

^Or Cleveland to Buffalo.  Houston to San Antonio or Dallas. Tulsa to Kansas City. Sacramento to Eugene.

 

I'm sure they would be connected by standard speed lines, but it would be nice to have a whole interconnected network from Texas to Maine.

^^^October 2005??? 

 

Is that the latest???

Those corridors/projects were not submitted for federal high-speed rail designations. The HSR designations program was started in the late-1990s under Clinton. It's still law, but wasn't updated in the last eight years. Care to guess why?

W

No Detroit to Toledo either.  I remember trying to take Amtrak from Detroit to Youngstown, and they told me I had to go via Chicago.  Suddenly the Greyhound station looked 10x nicer.

No Detroit to Toledo either. I remember trying to take Amtrak from Detroit to Youngstown, and they told me I had to go via Chicago. Suddenly the Greyhound station looked 10x nicer.

 

Actually, there is connecting bus service from Detroit directly to the Amtrak station in Toledo. The trains go east to Cleveland, Alliance and Pittsburgh and beyond. But it is physically impossible to move a train directly from Cleveland to Youngstown due to the absence of a 1-mile track connection in Ravenna. I've often dubbed it the "missing link."

And California is nearly out of business and a frozen credit market.

And California is nearly out of business and a frozen credit market.

 

lets hope those californias move East.  Although most will be broke since they cannot sell their homes but if they do sell they can afford to move here.

It's a hoot that Riverside is taking a big interest in this.  We may see serious planning for Dayton's suburban station before the city steps up.  The fortunate thing for them is that the rail line will run right next to a redevelopment project they are working on. 

Theres' nothing to say that there cant be two stations in Dayton and both of them in the suburbs. 

 

Dayton South, in Moraine, as the center of a new urbanist or "EuraLille" kind of development on the site of the GM plant parking lots. 

 

 

Dayton East, in Riverside,

 

 

NBC-TV24

 

http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=262528

 

See the VIDEO at:

http://www.toledoonthemove.com/news/video.aspx?id=262528

 

High-speed passenger rail service for Toledo?

 

Thursday, February 19, 2009 at 4:46 p.m.

 

TOLEDO, OHIO -- There is a growing consensus in Ohio that new federal stimulus money money may put the state on track for major improvements and expansion of its passenger rail service.  This includes a future high-speed rail system that could connect Toledo with Cleveland and Columbus.

 

.......

And California is nearly out of business and a frozen credit market.

 

lets hope those californias move East. Although most will be broke since they cannot sell their homes but if they do sell they can afford to move here.

Sounds like its Ohio's time to shine.  "Give me your poor, your hungry, your huddled masses..."

Here is the response I got back from Senator Seitz in regards to the letter I sent out to my state representatives.

 

Dear Mr. Simes:

 

Thanks for your email. The Ohio Hub is indeed an intriguing issue. As a legislator who regularly travels by car from Cincinnati to Columbus, I would probably be very interested in a good rail connection as it would free up my time to do work while traveling. Among the issues (besides cost) that we will have to examine on this proposal are whether the passenger rail connection would interfere with existing freight train lines and where the terminus point(s) would be in each of the cities. If the terminus is not at the right place (for example, if the Columbus terminus was at the airport) then it may not work since rail travelers would have to spend extra to get downtown, which would limit the attractiveness (and timeliness) of the rail alternative.

 

Sincerely,

William J. Seitz

Dear Senator Reitz, the train station will not be at Port Columbus Airport.

 

Signed, Geography.

^^That is one of the most idiotic responses I have ever read.

 

Dear Citizen X,

 

While the train issues is certainly an interesting one for Cleveland, I would like to note that if the terminus is located in Bay Village, it might end up not being too convenient for the citizens of Cleveland, as they would have to travel an extra 25 minutes just to get downtown.

 

NO KIDDING  :shoot: :whip: :wtf: :drunk:

He could have summed it up in two words: I'm skeptical.

^Yes.  Don't make up some absurd worry.

3-C Corridor Summit/SW Ohio is TOMMOROW!

 

NOTE NEW LOCATION!

 

Southwest Ohio All Aboard Ohio members and other supporters of developing passenger train service in the Cleveland - Columbus - Dayton - Cincinnati (3-C) Corridor will meet at 10 a.m. Feb. 21 at Mad River Middle School, 1801 Harshman Road, a half-block north of the Riverside City Hall and on the same side of the street. The school is located immediately north of Harshman's interchange with State Route 4. Riverside is just east of Dayton near the 3-C tracks.  Coffee and doughnuts will be provided.

 

Attendees will hear from Stu Nicholson, Public Information Officer at the Ohio Rail Development Commission which has contracted with Amtrak to plan for the implementation of 3-C Corridor passenger trains. Mr. Nicholson will provide an update on the planning work, now under way. All Aboard Ohio will organize local support for state and federal funding of 3-C trains and recruit new members to help All Aboard Ohio's efforts. All Aboard Ohio President Bill Hutchison will discuss All Aboard Ohio's efforts to organize support from citizens, organizations, cities and businesses to get state legislators to approve funding for 3-C Corridor trains.

 

See the following 3-C Corridor presentation on why Ohio should invest in passenger rail development (1mb):

http://members.cox.net/neotrans2/3-C%20Brochure.pdf

I love the comments after the article. Idiocy loves anonymity....

 

http://www.marionstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009902190305

 

Marion officials supporting rail project

By JOHN JARVIS • The Marion Star • February 18, 2009

 

MARION - Money made available for required environmental studies has spurred a coalition of elected officials to seek the support of their congressman for a high-speed rail project.

 

The group of representatives of communities in the 4th U.S. House District including Marion, Lima and Mansfield will meet with members of U.S. Rep. Jim Jordan on Friday morning in Kenton.

 

Their objective is to persuade Jordan to help Ohio secure the approximately $7 million that it's estimated federally required programmatic environmental studies would cost. The Passenger Rail Investment and Improvement Act of 2008 provided about $13 million for Amtrak and passenger-rail funding.

 

.......

Here is the response that I got back from State Representative Jay Goyal:

 

Andrew:

 

Thank you for your letter regarding the inclusion of a new Ohio Railway system in the current budget. This is an innovative program which undoubtedly holds benefits for our state.

 

The Governor’s current budget plans are supportive of this new initiative. I am hopeful that it will remain in the final budget. Linking Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland has the potential to open up new areas of economic development. We must remember that this is a difficult time for our state, and though projects like this cost money, they also create jobs.

 

Thank you again for your letter. Please do not hesitate to contact my office if there is anything I can do to help you in the future.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jay P. Goyal

State Representative

District 73

 

And then the response I got from State Senator Bill Harris:

Dear Andrew:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence in regards to Governor Strickland’s proposed budget.  I appreciate you taking the time to express your concerns.

 

The budget bill is currently pending in the Ohio House Finance & Appropriations Committee where it has had several hearings.  The House Finance Committee will hear testimony on the provisions of the bill from interested individuals and organizations.  Members of the House of Representatives will likely offer amendments to the bill before it is voted out of the Finance Committee and out of the House.  If you have not already done so, I encourage you to contact your State Representative to share your concerns or questions.

 

After the budget bill has passed the House of Representatives, it will then move to the Senate for consideration.  I will be sure to keep your thoughts in mind as I carefully consider all aspects of the budget.

 

Again, thank you for contacting me.  If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact me again.

 

Sincerely,

 

Bill Harris

Senate President

Ohio Senate

Glad to hear Rep. Goyle is supportive. But I was hoping for something more substantive from the senate president. Let's work together to change that....

 

You are invited to join All Aboard Ohio, the Ohio Sierra Club, the Ohio Environmental Council and others March 3 to ask your Ohio representative and senator in Columbus to support Governor Strickland’s funding requests for expanded passenger rail services.

 

To register for the RAIL LOBBY DAY, click here.....

http://ohio.sierraclub.org/Documents/TransitLobbyDayRegistrationForm.doc

 

Testimony given by All Aboard Ohio to the Ohio House's Transportation Subcommittee on Feb. 18, 2009 can provide you some tips on messages to give to your state representative and senator.

 

To view All Aboard Ohio's testimony, click here......

http://members.cox.net/corridorscampaign/Testimony-AAO-ODOT-021809.doc

It's actually spelled Goyal..... and, yes, he's very rail-friendly.... as opposed to the non-answer from Sen. Harris.

^Fixed. Also, every response that I get from Senator Harris is always like that. Tells me some random information and then promises to keep my thoughts in mind but never tells me whether or not he supports the issue at hand.

 

 

In your next letter, try ending it by saying "my vote depends on your answer."

 

Seriously, we need to let "electeds" know that creating more transportation choices like passenger rail is important for more than just the train ride itself (creating economic development, jobs, better access to education and health care, enlarging our business options, etc)....and that if they want your vote whenever the next election occurs, that vote hinges on a thoughtful, substantive answer (unlike what Sen. Harris wrote).

 

One can still write a polite letter and  still make this point at the close.