Is the track between Cincy and Dayton already laid?  What are the odds of looping in Hamilton?

 

By the way, AirTran to DC is $39.  Too bad the train isn't that convenient.

Great letter KJP !

Thanks, Nooz.

 

Is the track between Cincy and Dayton already laid? What are the odds of looping in Hamilton?

 

By the way, AirTran to DC is $39. Too bad the train isn't that convenient.

 

Most of the tracks already exist from Cincinnati to Dayton. Some new sections of passing track are needed and other stretches of track need improvement.

 

As for AirTran, that's a great fare for an advanced purchase with no refund or changes. Once those limited availability seats are gone, coach seats to D.C. sell for $256, $310 and $342, per their website.

Is the track between Cincy and Dayton already laid?  What are the odds of looping in Hamilton?

 

By the way, AirTran to DC is $39.  Too bad the train isn't that convenient.

 

I wonder how long AirTran could continue that fare if airports and the Air Traffic Control system received the same level of taxpayer support as intercity passenger rail.

e-mail to Mr. Mandell:

 

Hi Brad,

 

Comment from you about the 3-C that someone posted on Urban Ohio.com:

 

Comments:

Since you have not included NWO, I will be sure to do everything in my power to sink this project. My media company reaches over 2 Million people in Ohio on a monthly basis, and I plan on letting all of them know what a bad idea this is.

 

While I respect your opinion, you lack a few basic facts that I think you should be aware of before you form one:

 

1.  Northwest Ohio has not been left out.  I would suggest you read about the Ohio Hub plan at www.ohiohub.com.    The Ohio Rail Development Commission has secured $7-million to begin the required environmental assessment of 4 high-speed rail corridors...including Detroit to Toledo to Columbus and Toledo to Cleveland and Pittsburgh.  The environmental work will begin within the coming month and should be completed about the same time as the first 3C trains begin running (assuming the state gets the stimulus money and the project goes forward).

 

2.  State law requires that the first intercity passenger rail corridor in Ohio be the 3-C and the 3-C is just the FIRST step toward the broader Ohio Hub plan that most definitely includes Northwest Ohio.  You can't go from zero to satisfying everybody in one step.  The 3-C is the backbone of the proposed Ohio Hub.  If you want passenger rail to succeed in Northwest Ohio, we need to start with the densest route in the state that will have the highest ridership--the 3-C-- and build upon it from there.  The 3-C ties the whole proposed Ohio Hub system together.  If you want passenger rail in NW Ohio to be successful and you want public funds to be used wisely, this is the way to go.

 

3.  Regarding Greyhound:  Greyhound keeps eliminating service to small and medium-sized cities (most recently the NW Ohio city of Sandusky).  At full build-out, the Ohio Hub will serve many such cities.  Furthermore, one might be able to travel from Cleveland to Columbus and Cincinnati on Greyhound, but their schedules are horrible.  Business travelers can't use it because their schedules don't serve the needs of business travelers.  They don't even serve leisure travelers well.  The only time Greyhound has ever been any use to me when I want to go to Columbus from Cleveland, for example, is when my trip involves an overnight stay.

 

4.  I would strongly suggest you look at the other states that are already doing with state-funded passenger rail corridors what Ohio is proposing.  States like North Carolina, Wisconsin, Michigan, Maine, Washington, etc.  There are 14 in all.  Every one of the intercity passenger rail routes these states fund has been a success.  They all started out taking longer than driving and most still do.  The state of North Carolina found out the travel time vs. driving was #4 on the list of concerns for their riders-- and the ridership on their trains has increased sharply over the last decade.  Talk to the guy who oversees North Carolina's passenger rail corridors.  His name is Patrick Simmons and he works for NCDOT.

 

5.  Your subsidy-per-passenger figure is meaningless-- and it's not even the standard metric in the transportation industry (subsidy per passenger mile is the standard metric).  Every time we use a road, airport, ferry, public transit, or bike path, we're using subsidized transportation.  No mode of transportation meant to serve the general public  covers all of its costs.  And no form of transportation is subsidized more than our roads.  Gas taxes and license fees have never covered all of the costs (at best 2/3-- but that's declining), and those are subsidies anyway because it is cheaper to raise financial capital through government taxation than it is to raise the money on the private financial markets.  It's not the subsidy that matters but the economic payback of the transportation investment/expenditure.  See comment #8

 

6.  Total vehicle miles traveled in the United States has been on the decline since  2002 or 2003 despite the fact that our population is still growing.  This is US Census data... look it up.  Vehicle ownership is also on the decline.  Meanwhile, ridership on intercity passenger trains has been on the rise for several years-- particularly on the state-funded corridors.

 

7.  More and more young professionals are showing a preference for cities that allow them to avoid the expense and hassles of car ownership.  They want to be able to sit back "plug-in" more and  sit behind the wheel less.  If Ohio is going to stop its decades-long problem of brain drain, one of the things we need to do is take a different approach to transportation (yes there are others, too, but this is one of them).

 

8.  I would also suggest that you read the Economic Impact Analysis of the Ohio Hub.  Then look at existing state-funded corridors and research the economic paybacks those corridors have provided.  Talk to people like Patrick Simmons.  Contact Maine DOT about the Downeaster Corridor or Frank Busalacchi with the state of Wisconsin (Hiawatha Corridor) and talk to them about the economic paybacks of their passenger rail investments.

 

9.  This country very much needs alternatives to car-dependency for a variety of reasons.  Energy security is probably the most important one.  We've gotten a reprieve on gas prices because of the economic downturn, but the price volatility will return. It's only a matter of time.  States that have alternatives will be in a much better economic position than the ones that don't.  What are you going to tell people when gas hits $4 a gallon or worse?  That your narrow self-interest was more important than beginning the process of offering Ohioans alternatives to the gas pump by starting with the 3-C project?

 

I could go on, but this is enough for now.

 

Best regards,

 

EDIT on 1/24: Now I'm wondering if he's just going to twist some of the things I tried to explain to him out of context so he can rant some more

According to a recent, badly worded poll question, 52% of likely voters oppose the "3C Transportation Corridor" http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100125/NEWS01/1250301

 

Here is the actual text of the question that was asked of the survey respondents:

 

"Do you favor or oppose investing money in the 3C Transportation Corridor Plan?"

 

If you google "3C Transportation Corridor Plan" there are no results found.

 

I would have to imagine that calling the project by a name that it had never been called before and not mentioning what kind of transportation it was probably skewed the poll.

Who paid for the poll? All Aboard Ohio looked at using the University of Cincinnati's polling center a number of years ago. The cost is affordable because an organization can write and submit poll questions to be asked along with other questions submitted by the major newspapers. But that 3C question is so badly worded that I find it hard to believe that it was written by the newspapers.

 

In fact, it is so badly worded that I could use it to slam investing in highways or airports in the 3C Corridor.

 

I suspect that since the backers of the Tubular Rail concept are so prominently mentioned that they were ones who sought the question. Tubular Rail's (Spinelli & Co.) next train they build -- be it a prototype or HO guage model -- will be the first one built. Why? Because it does not work. Yet they keep hoping people will buy their snake oil.

looks like Florida has early signs.  does this help or hurt our chances?

Who paid for the poll? All Aboard Ohio looked at using the University of Cincinnati's polling center a number of years ago. The cost is affordable because an organization can write and submit poll questions to be asked along with other questions submitted by the major newspapers. But that 3C question is so badly worded that I find it hard to believe that it was written by the newspapers.

 

In fact, it is so badly worded that I could use it to slam investing in highways or airports in the 3C Corridor.

 

I suspect that since the backers of the Tubular Rail concept are so prominently mentioned that they were ones who sought the question. Tubular Rail's (Spinelli & Co.) next train they build -- be it a prototype or HO guage model -- will be the first one built. Why? Because it does not work. Yet they keep hoping people will buy their snake oil.

 

That is true.  The way the question is worded, the majority of those sampled favor no investment in transportation running from Cincinnati to Columbus to Cleveland.  As the phrase "3C Transportation Corridor Plan" had apparently never been used in any context on the internet prior to this poll (and I cannot imagine a single phrase in the popular lexicon that does not exist on the internet), the phrase is open to such interpretation. 

 

KJP, I suggest you write an op-ed to all of the newspapers who sponsored this poll highlighting this fact.

here is a link to the questions: http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/politics/strickland-trails-kasich-in-race-for-governor-poll-shows-508367.html

looks like Florida has early signs.  does this help or hurt our chances?

 

Hard to say. Wisconsin also thinks it is getting $800 million.

 

A number of these states are also putting up some of their own money, too, even though they don't have to. So it's not just $8 billion in federal funds being spent, but closer to $10 billion in state and federal funds combined -- not including California. If you include the Golden State, then the amount getting invested in passenger rail jumps to $20 billion. And that doesn't include another $2.5 billion in federal transportation funds for passenger rail in 2010 which requires a minimum 20 percent non-federal match to leverage. So that $2.5 billion becomes $3.15 billion. And Amtrak got $1.5 billion to rebuild its trains, stations and infrastructure. So the total to be spent on passenger rail in the next couple of years is at least $24.65 billion. This doesn't even include some of the $29 billion in stimulus funds for general infrastructure which can also include rail and for which 3C is also eligible to receive.

KJP, I suggest you write an op-ed to all of the newspapers who sponsored this poll highlighting this fact.

 

I encourage everyone to contact the newspapers to highlight this fact. One person can be ignored. Many cannot.

Apparently the recent Ohio Poll (conducted by UC) shows lack of support in investing in 3C

 

 

Do you favor or oppose investing money in the 3C Transportation Corridor Plan?

 

Favor: 41%

Oppose: 52%

Not Sure: 6%

 

This was asked in the context of other budget/economy questions so might indicate that those polled think we cant afford it in the context of the dire condition of the state budget/economy/tax revenue.

According to a recent, badly worded poll question, 52% of likely voters oppose the "3C Transportation Corridor" http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100125/NEWS01/1250301

 

Here is the actual text of the question that was asked of the survey respondents:

 

"Do you favor or oppose investing money in the 3C Transportation Corridor Plan?"

 

If you google "3C Transportation Corridor Plan" there are no results found.

 

I would have to imagine that calling the project by a name that it had never been called before and not mentioning what kind of transportation it was probably skewed the poll.

Naturally COAST is running wild with this latest "poll"

Even though the Ohio Poll numbers are in the negative, it only reflects the opinion of those who may or may not object to state dollars being used....and not the overall support for passenger rail being started in the 3C.

 

It was interesting to see State Rep. Blessing express "surprise" that 41 % still favor the project, even with state dollars being used. And when you look at the breakdown of respondents....there was still support among Dems (52%) and Independents (56%).  The naysayers were Republicans (63%).

 

The poll fails to mention that covering the annual operating costs could also include such revenue sources as naming rights to trains & stations, advertising rights and fees, franchise fees for on-board and station services, wi-fi rights, etc.... all of which could be put out for bid.

 

I have also seen KJP make reference to covering the operating revenue gap (that which is already not covered by the farebox) with induced savings to the public and business by not having to drive a car.

 

Also, keep in mind that the March 2009 Quinnipiac University Poll showed 64% of Ohioans support a passenger rail start-up in the 3C.  That poll is still less than a year old and still holds some validity.

 

There's one thing that the poll question fails to mention:  rail.

 

Thus, any attempt to cast this as an anti-rail statistic is meaningless. Who wrote and paid for the question's inclusion in the Ohio Poll?

In case you want to know who Spinelli is.......

 

John Michael Spinelli

Columbus Government Reporter

Examiner.com

http://www.examiner.com/x-23537-Columbus-Government-Examiner

614-578-1237

Fax: 413-410-9064

 

Director, Ohio Operations

Tubular Rail Inc.

www.tubularrail.com

 

[email protected]

www.spinco.biz

http://www.linkedin.com/profile?viewProfile=&key=21804946&trk=tab_pro

 

John's column on people, politics and government -- SPINELLI ON ASSIGNMENT --can be found here: http://spinellionassignment.blogspot.com/

 

Find previous reports here:  (http://thejournal.epluribusmedia.net/index.php/state-news/34-ohio-news).

 

Older archives are here: (http://discuss.epluribusmedia.net/blog/538)

 

Accompanying his travel blog is Buckeyes in Europe, John's pictures, hosted by Picasa Web Albums, at: http://picasaweb.google.com/spincohio/BUCKEYESINEUROPEALLSTAREDITION

Interesting that Spinelli doesn't disclose his connection to Tubular Rail in any of his "reports".  So much for his credibility.

No mention of it in the State of the State from Strickland, right?

http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/poor_poll_question_offers_no_insight/

 

Poor poll question offers no insight

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE — January 27, 2010

 

Contact:

Ken Prendergast

All Aboard Ohio Executive Director

(216) 288-4883

[email protected]

 

Representatives of All Aboard Ohio today questioned the results of a poorly worded poll question which supposedly indicates opposition to a proposed passenger rail service. The question, buried amongst other issues dealing with Ohio’s long-stagnant economy and budgetary problems, asked: “Do you favor or oppose investing money in the 3C Transportation Corridor Plan?”

 

The question did not refer to any specific mode of transportation. Nor were there any facts given preceding the question to give the respondent an opportunity to provide an informed opinion. Such information should have included facts that Ohio is seeking a statewide, modern, proven passenger rail network starting with a basic Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati service that would allow the state to achieve a net cost savings. Further, the proposed passenger rail service linking Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati would yield an economic benefit to Ohio of $232 per rail passenger (see All Aboard Ohio's Sept. 25, 2009 press release).

 

“The way the poll question was worded left the responses wide open to all kinds of interpretation,” said All Aboard Ohio Executive Director Ken Prendergast. “Some could use the responses to say Ohioans oppose investing in highways and airports serving Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati. But when poll questions in the recent past specifically asked whether people supported the development of passenger rail in Ohio, the results were very positive.”

 

For example, an Ohio State University poll asked: “Ohio officials have considered promoting the development of passenger train services. Do you strongly favor, favor, neither favor nor oppose, oppose, or strongly oppose state efforts to develop passenger train service in Ohio?” In response, 80 percent said they favored or strongly favored the state's development of passenger trains.

 

Quinnipiac University also asked a poll question on passenger rail recently: “Governor Strickland is proposing passenger train service between Columbus, Cincinnati, Cleveland and Dayton. Do you think this is a good idea or a bad idea?” Despite the poll being statewide, 64 percent said it was a good idea. Only 29 percent said it wasn’t. And even though it was a statewide poll, 46 percent said it was “somewhat likely” or “very likely” they would use the 3C trains.

 

More support:

 

++ Ohioans took the time to communicate 15,000 calls and e-mails in support of 3C trains to their state legislators last spring during debate over the Ohio Department of Transportation’s budget.

 

++ Another 2,300 letters were sent via http://www.linkingohio.com to Congress in the past month in support of federal funding for 3C trains. Please visit LinkingOhio.com to see the latest tally.

 

++ Furthermore, dozens of organizations, corporations, colleges/universities and Ohio leaders penned letters or resolutions of support for Ohio’s 3C “Quick Start” passenger rail plan, many of which are posted at http://3cisme.ohio.gov.

 

Ohio’s 3C “Quick Start” plan will create 11,000 jobs, produce savings to travelers and promote economic benefits far in excess of the public costs. In fact, the 3C trains will allow the State of Ohio to save millions of dollars that can be used to support the trains and to help restore state funding cuts to public transit in Ohio. For more details, see All Aboard Ohio’s Nov. 17, 2009 news release and report: “"Operation: Sustain Transit" at: http://209.51.133.155/cms/index.php/news_releases/more/all_aboard_ohio_releases_report_operation_sustain_transit/

 

“I encourage Ohio’s media to ask more specific poll questions if they want to discover if Ohioans continue to support passenger rail so strongly,” Prendergast said. “This is essential for creating good public policies that foster First World transportation systems, including rail, enjoyed by other states and nations with which Ohio must compete in the 21st century.”

 

END

AP and the Washington Post are reporting that 13 corridors serving 31 states will receive money. Based on that, I'd say Ohio has a VERY GOOD shot at getting at least some money for 3C.

 

Obama and Biden will announce all recipients tomorrow in Florida.

There are only 11 Corridors on this map by my count (3C makes 12)

The Chicago Hub will likely be broken down into multiple corridors and therefore multiple recipients ... Hiawatha Corridor (Chicago - Milwaukee - Madison), Wolverine Corridor (Chicago - Detroit/Pontiac), Lincoln Corridor (Chicago - St. Louis), Missouri River Runner (St. Louis - Kansas City), Chicago - Iowa City, and Chicago - Ft Wayne - Toledo - Cleveland. All those have stimulus funding requests pending.

 

Texas is not likely to receive funding and the Northeast Corridor may not either.

 

So if you figure $8 billion divided among 13 corridors, that's an average of $615 million per corridor. Florida and California are asking for more than $2 billion each, while Indiana's priority request is for just $71 million and Iowa's is for only $32 million. States like Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin are seeking in the vicinity of $800 million each. If Ohio gets money, it may be pretty close to what it originally asked for ($564 million).

^We should have asked for more in that case.  :wink:

It still blows my mind that there is to be no hi-speed connection between the east coast network and the rest of it.  It would be different if the map purported to describe "practical possibilities" or something like that... but no, we don't even have Cle-Pitt or Cle-Buff within our "Vision."  If you want to go to Pittsburgh or points east, you have to use "other pasenger rail."  Why?

Sent by e-mail.........

 

American Public Transportation Association

Praises the Obama Administration for

Its Vision on High-Speed Rail

 

“This Is the Beginning of a New Era”

Statement by APTA President William Millar

 

“With the pending announcements of the first federal grants for high-speed rail, I praise the Obama Administration for taking this historic step toward bringing the vision of high-speed passenger rail to fruition in America. It is the beginning of our nation’s journey in implementing high-speed rail and higher-speed rail and creating a world-class, multi-modal transportation system.  This time will be remembered as the beginning of a new era in transportation.

 

Investing in high-speed rail is essential for our country’s future.  Not only will high-speed rail provide faster and quicker travel, but it will create American jobs now while building a new industry with hundreds of thousands of long-term, sustainable jobs.

 

While ensuring that America remains an economic engine with good, “green” American jobs, high-speed rail is also essential so that we can move toward a sustainable, modern transportation system that meets the environmental and energy challenges of this century.

 

These grants for high-speed rail mean that we are much closer to a world-class transportation system that demonstrates the vision of a connected America.  They put us on the right track to connecting our transportation network so that people can take high-speed rail and easily transfer to local public transportation services to reach their destination.

 

As long-time advocates for high-speed rail, APTA and its membership are enthusiastic about the coming high-speed rail grant announcements.  There is a lot of work ahead and we look forward to the challenge of making high-speed rail a reality.”

 

APTA has created a Center for High-Speed Rail to advance and promote high-speed rail in the United States.  The website for the Center for High-Speed Rail is www.highspeedrailonline.org.

It still blows my mind that there is to be no hi-speed connection between the east coast network and the rest of it. It would be different if the map purported to describe "practical possibilities" or something like that... but no, we don't even have Cle-Pitt or Cle-Buff within our "Vision." If you want to go to Pittsburgh or points east, you have to use "other pasenger rail." Why?

 

Good points.  I think http://nationalgateway.org/ addresses that point, though I think connecting St. Louis to Pittsburgh via Louisville, Cincinnati and Columbus is the best way to connect the Plains/Midsouth/Midwest to the NE.

 

Thanks for the info KJP.  I think FL is going to be a total transportation transformation tomorrow.

Ohio getting $400 million in federal rail money

Obama will announce grants Thursday in Florida

Wednesday,  January 27, 2010 3:25 PM

Updated: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 05:51 PM

By Jonathan Riskind and James Nash

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

Ohio's long-planned passenger rail corridor is about to get a $400 million federal boost.

 

President Obama is going to Florida on Thursday to reveal how his administration will divvy up $8 billion in high-speed rail funding, but the good news will whistle all the way up to the Buckeye State, say Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, and Rep Mary Jo Kilroy, D-Columbus.

 

Ohio's plan for passenger rail service linking Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Dayton is going to get a significant share of that funding, said Brown, though he said he didn't know precisely how much.

 

But a separate, well-placed federal source told The Dispatch this afternoon that the figure will be $400 million.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/01/27/ohio-high-speed-rail-money.html?sid=101

From the article:

 

Ultimately, state officials hope the medium-speed rail will spur interest in a faster line, averaging 71 mph, that would cost $1.53 billion. The faster trains would attract more than three times as many passengers, according to the Amtrak study.

 

Officials have said that if Ohio gets federal funding for its medium-speed rail project, the trains could be up and running by the middle of next year.

 

Let's do whatever we can to get the faster trains.  This is good news; I'm glad Ohio wasn't left out of the pot of gold.

This isn't a construction project. It's a cultural evolution, and those take time. California's and Illinois' rail-evolution began in the 1970s. Wisconsin's and Oregon's began in the 1980s. North Carolina's, Michigan's and Maine's began in the 1990s. Virginia's, Pennsylvania's, New York's and Oklahoma's began in the 2000's. They are all now moving into the next levels up.

 

Ohio is trying to get to the first level. Let's applaud them for taking a step forward -- something that Georgia, Colorado and other states have yet to do.

A Columbus-Pittsburgh and a Cincinnati-Louisville-St. Louis really make sense once the 3C is up and running.

 

"something that Georgia, Colorado and other states have yet to do"

 

Interesting that you picked two states that are each dominated by a single city.

 

Notice that most of the proposed rail lines serve two or more cities within the same state? If Cincinnati had been developed on the Kentucky side and Cleveland ended up in Pennsylvania somehow, I don't think we would be talking about the 3C line even though the only difference would be the border location.

 

 

Another article.

 

Ohio 'virtually certain' to get rail funds

By Peter Urban, Cincinnati Enquirer, January 27, 2010

 

WASHINGTON - Labor Secretary Hilda Solis is expected to join Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland at a press conference Thursday in Columbus to announce that the state will get about $350 million in federal stimulus money to connect the state's largest cities by rail.

 

Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown said Wednesday that he is "virtually certain" that Ohio will receive the $350 million in stimulus funding to establish medium-speed passenger train service between Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus and Cleveland.

 

"something that Georgia, Colorado and other states have yet to do"

 

Interesting that you picked two states that are each dominated by a single city.

 

Notice that most of the proposed rail lines serve two or more cities within the same state? If Cincinnati had been developed on the Kentucky side and Cleveland ended up in Pennsylvania somehow, I don't think we would be talking about the 3C line even though the only difference would be the border location.

 

 

What about Colorado Springs in CO, its metro population is about 600,000, and the drive between Denver & the Springs is brutal, 2-lanes all the way.  And Georgia.., it wouldn't be nice to have a train down to Florida?

From the PD:

 

Gov. Ted Strickland says Ohio will get $400 million for 3C rail project

By Aaron Marshall, The Plain Dealer

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Passenger rail service linking Ohio's major cities -- the so-called 3C Corridor -- could be up and running by the end of 2012, thanks to a $400 million infusion of federal funding to be announced Thursday by the Obama administration, says Gov. Ted Strickland.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/01/gov_ted_strickland_says_ohio_w.html

 

Congrats to all that worked tirelessly on this!  Great thanks to you!

From the PD:

 

Gov. Ted Strickland says Ohio will get $400 million for 3C rail project

By Aaron Marshall, The Plain Dealer

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Passenger rail service linking Ohio's major cities -- the so-called 3C Corridor -- could be up and running by the end of 2012, thanks to a $400 million infusion of federal funding to be announced Thursday by the Obama administration, says Gov. Ted Strickland.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/01/gov_ted_strickland_says_ohio_w.html

 

 

not to be down on the announcement, but there is still a 154m gap if the state gets 400m.  where will this come from and is there support to make that happen?  NOACA's amendment from last year would move the project from tier iii to tier i, only if the entire amount was given.  there could be some interesting negotiations in the coming months to get this implemented.

 

--

 

FTW, did anyone see the rendering of the Diesel Multiple Unit locos? Pretty nice and very efficient.

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Rail/Programs/passenger/3CisME/Pages/default.aspx

this is good news. i hope that in the state's attempt to lower expenses, the frequency of service is not cut. part of the success of a train is the frequency of service--like one an hour--the 308, the 408, etc. four trips a days is already pretty sparse....3 a day may doom it to failure.

 

Also (and I realize this is the 3-C thread), was the line CLE-Toledo-Chicago line was not funded?

The Cincinnati Enquirer article made it seem like everything is definite and work is going to start asap..even with a quote from Strickland saying service will start possible in a year and a half or so. Any truth to this?

Ohio can do this project for $400 million by going with rebuilt or leased trains, making Sharonville the temporary southern terminus until they get the funding to go to Cincinnati Union Terminal and scaling back on a train maintenance and inspection facility in Cleveland. Much of the routine locomotive and rail car maintenance could be done at Amtrak's Beech Grove facility in Indianapolis. Who knows, maybe we'll get better train service between Cincinnati and Chicago as a result?? :)

 

Point is, this project can be done for $400 million.

Obama and Biden will unveil their high-speed rail program at the University of Tampa Thursday beginning at 12:30 p.m. Check your local TV listings....

3C has to be done right. Rail/Ohio can't afford a black eye on this.

OK, let me rephrase. Ohio can have an attractive, usable 3C passenger rail service for $400 million. But no state started out with their ideal service right off the bat.

The White House has posted a summary list of corridor projects that will be awarded part of the $8 billion ARRA funding. Every Midwestern state that applied is scheduled to receive some funding and the Midwest as whole will receive over $2.6 billion.....

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/files/documents/100128_1400-HSRAwards-Summary_FRA%20Revisions.pdf

 

Note that the Cleveland - Toledo - Chicago corridor also got $204 million ($71 million in Indiana, $133 million in Illinois) -- it got it because it shares the last 40 miles into Chicago with the Detroit-Chicago corridor! This will enable faster, more reliable service on the existing four daily Amtrak trains across northern Ohio, and allow for future expanded service to Bryan, Toledo, Sandusky, Elyria and Cleveland!

 

There is also an Ohio-specific document easily found on the White House web site regarding Ohio winning $400 million for the 3C Corridor.....

 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/fact-sheet-high-speed-intercity-passenger-rail-program-cleveland-columbus

U still see the big hang-up being the state legislature.  If I recall right that is where the big political opposition will come from, if they vote down an operating or capital expenditure apporporation for it. 

 

I guess Strickland can get it going with just the quick start money, not having to go to the statehouse???

$400 MILLION FROM FEDS

Money for rail bound for Ohio

State hoped for more, but it's enough to start 4-city passenger route

Thursday,  January 28, 2010 3:29 AM

By Jonathan Riskind, James Nash and Mark Niquette

 

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

 

The $400 million federal grant should allow Ohio to re-establish rail service between Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus and Cleveland.Ohio's long-planned passenger rail corridor will get a $400 million federal boost today.

 

President Barack Obama is going to Florida to reveal how his administration will divvy up $8 billion in high-speed-rail funding, but the good news will whistle all the way up to the Buckeye State, say Gov. Ted Strickland, Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, and Rep. Mary Jo Kilroy, D-Columbus.

 

Ohio's plan for passenger rail service linking Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Dayton is going to get a significant chunk of the $517.6 million that state officials say they need to improve existing freight rail lines to passenger standards and to buy trains.

 

Full story at: http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/01/28/ohrailbux.ART_ART_01-28-10_A1_O2GE7CV.html?sid=101

I noticed that they plan a stop at 150th and Puritas.  They really need to explore the possibility of running the train through the airport (can it be part of the RTA airport station?).  This would make it easier to feed pax into CLE from CMH northward. 

I noticed that they plan a stop at 150th and Puritas. They really need to explore the possibility of running the train through the airport (can it be part of the RTA airport station?). This would make it easier to feed pax into CLE from CMH northward.

If I recall correctly they can't do this because of the way the Airport RTA station is built, something about it being built as a dead end by some not so forward thinking planners way back when. Though I'm certain there are more knowledgeable people here that can better explain it.

Even with just $400 million, the state could launch a "very attractive" rail service, said Ken Prendergast, executive director of All Aboard Ohio, a pro-rail group. The state could trim costs by using rebuilt, rather than new, passenger cars and by ending the route in downtown Cincinnati rather than at a planned site 6 miles away, he said.

 

Dear Dispatch reporters: That's not what I said. What I said was the southern terminus could temporarily be in Sharonville rather than at Lunken Field. Then, when there is enough money, the trains could go to Cincinnati Union Terminal. Ugggh....

 

 

I noticed that they plan a stop at 150th and Puritas. They really need to explore the possibility of running the train through the airport (can it be part of the RTA airport station?). This would make it easier to feed pax into CLE from CMH northward.

 

A totally new right of way would need to be built through the airport grounds. The cost would be too great. A railroad passenger train has a heavier buffer strength than a Rapid transit train, so if a railroad passenger train collided with a Rapid transit train, the Rapid would be shredded. So they are incompatible and must be kept separate.

 

If the priority was to serve the airport, a better solution would be to extend an overhead walkway from the airport long-term parking deck to a station on the east side of SR237. But even that would not be cheap and would cause potential conflicts with freight rail traffic between NS's Rockport Yard and Berea. Further, the data shows that more passengers would come from a convenient linkage with the Rapid and the convenient parking area that's easily accessible from I-71/I-480.