Everyone knows this needs to go to downtown Cinci.

 

Apparently, the grand poobahs in DC missed the memo.  So much for the dream of getting off the train in Cincy and seeing the sights via streetcar in the next couple years.

Is any of this "leaving cincinnati out" argument based on real facts, or is it just speculation from the funding announcement?  To me, it appears to be the latter. 

I can't believe the poo pooing going on because it isn't going to make the final 10 miles right off the bat.  Everyone knows this needs to go to downtown Cinci.

 

I doubt you would say the same thing if the roles were reversed and Cleveland was left off the map.

 

I'd like to believe the people working on this know a hell of a lot more about it than me or most others in the forum.  If they think this is the best they can do with $400m to get this thing started then I'm pretty sure this is the best they can do.  Hell it's a START.

 

You're right.  The work that has been done by people like KJP, All Aboard Ohio and the other organizations has been incredible.  We got a large amount of money, and while it would have been nice to get $100M more to complete the 2-CS Corridor the actual 3-C Corridor, there should still be congratulations given to those who have led this effort and landed $400M for our state to restart rail service within our own state.

 

Great work, now lets get back to planning out how we can include a CUT station right now.  If we don't I fear major backlash will come from the Cincinnati metro when future votes for funding are held.

Is any of this "leaving cincinnati out" argument based on real facts, or is it just speculation from the funding announcement?  To me, it appears to be the latter.

 

Ken Prendergast from All Aboard Ohio was quoted as saying that to make up the difference we could refurbish old rolling stock instead of buying new, and also make Sharonville the southern terminus and wait to extend to CUT until the money is there.

Rando you're making several good points.  In Cleveland's defense I would note that it's right between NYC and Chicago, a busier corridor than any which passes through Cincinnati.  I must agree with you about Dayton.

 

I understand that there are merits to Cleveland, but those merits aren't that much greater than Cincinnati's.  Cincinnati is right in between Washington D.C. and Chicago.  Cincinnati is also the Midwest gateway to the Southeast.  And Cincinnati's MSA is basically identical to Cleveland's...and according to recent estimates actually larger.

 

I'm with you though 327, it just doesn't make sense to turn this into the 2-CS Corridor and miss out on one of the state's biggest markets.

 

I think the problem is you're stuck thinking the options are - given the $400 million budget - (1) have the rail line end "close" to downtown Cincinnati and end in downtown Cleveland or (2) have the rail line end in downtown Cincinnati or "close" to downtown Cleveland.

 

Those aren't the choices.

 

The choices are (1) have the rail line end "close" to downtown Cincinnati and end in downtown Cleveland or (2) have the rail line end in downtown Cincinnati and somewhere near Columbus leaving all of Northern Ohio out.

 

The cost of extending to Cincinnati is the issue - not a choice between the two cities.

 

Thank You!

Nobody else seems to see the obvious logic...  Except 327 and McCleveland

Rando you're making several good points.  In Cleveland's defense I would note that it's right between NYC and Chicago, a busier corridor than any which passes through Cincinnati.  I must agree with you about Dayton.

 

I understand that there are merits to Cleveland, but those merits aren't that much greater than Cincinnati's.  Cincinnati is right in between Washington D.C. and Chicago.  Cincinnati is also the Midwest gateway to the Southeast.  And Cincinnati's MSA is basically identical to Cleveland's...and according to recent estimates actually larger.

 

I'm with you though 327, it just doesn't make sense to turn this into the 2-CS Corridor and miss out on one of the state's biggest markets.

 

I think the problem is you're stuck thinking the options are - given the $400 million budget - (1) have the rail line end "close" to downtown Cincinnati and end in downtown Cleveland or (2) have the rail line end in downtown Cincinnati or "close" to downtown Cleveland.

 

Those aren't the choices.

 

The choices are (1) have the rail line end "close" to downtown Cincinnati and end in downtown Cleveland or (2) have the rail line end in downtown Cincinnati and somewhere near Columbus leaving all of Northern Ohio out.

 

The cost of extending to Cincinnati is the issue - not a choice between the two cities.

 

Thank You!

Nobody else seems to see the obvious logic...  Except 327 and McCleveland

 

While your logic is correct, the opponents of this won't see it that way. They will trumpet the fact that Cincinnati was left out, people will be pissed, and there goes any further support of ANY rail in Ohio from Cincinnatians.

 

It seems nobody else seems to see the obvious political implications... Except Rando and Sherman.

Basically your saying it needed to be the whole amount or nothing... Wishful thinking yes.  Was it likely, not really. 

 

Wow you guys seem rational.

 

No, we're saying that the project was sold to the state as being the 3-C Corridor with high-speed rail.  Instead we're getting regular speed trains and the 2-CS Corridor.

 

Not following through on political promises always costs you at the polls the next time around.  Had Dayton been left off after they were promised a station those voters would be pissed.  The same can be said for Columbus or Cleveland.

 

This is a political thing as much as it's a transportation thing...and you MUST understand that there are political repercussions for the decisions made in this process.  If the logic says we must leave Cincinnati out, then understand that the Cincinnati voters who were promised to be a part of the 3-C Corridor will feel betrayed and no longer extend their support to the project.  This is not a unique mentality to Cincinnatians...this is how politics work.

Great news about the $400 million.  Now, we have to make sure that small handful of GOP ideologues in the Ohio Senate don't succeed in finding a way to derail this thing (no pun intended).

 

Great work, now lets get back to planning out how we can include a CUT station right now.  If we don't I fear major backlash will come from the Cincinnati metro when future votes for funding are held.

 

Instead of creating a "backlash", the smartest thing for those in Cincinnati to do would be to work through their state legislators to get some state funds to extend the trains to CUT.  I don't think anyone else in the state who supports this project would oppose that. 

 

Remember also that a couple of the key ideological anti-rail state legislators are in the Cincinnati area.  Don't give them an excuse to be obstructionist.  Cincinnatians have the primary responsibility to work on these folks in this regard.  This is a representative democracy and they are your legislators. 

 

 

Im not sure what you expect to happen.

The Enquirer has a poll: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100128/NEWS0108/301280062/1055/NEWS/Ohio+trains+back+on+track

Instead of creating a "backlash", the smartest thing for those in Cincinnati to do would be to work through their state legislators to get some state funds to extend the trains to CUT. I don't think anyone else in the state who supports this project would oppose that.

 

Remember also that a couple of the key ideological anti-rail state legislators are in the Cincinnati area. Don't give them an excuse to be obstructionist. Cincinnatians have the primary responsibility to work on these folks in this regard. This is a representative democracy and they are your legislators.

 

This is great advice and is something that I had planned on doing. You can be sure I'll be promoting that all throughout Cincinnati. But do understand, it won't take the creation of a backlash...there will just be one as a result. You can't promise one thing, and do another and not expect the voters impacted to be upset.

Quite frankly, if stopping short 11 miles out of DT Cincinnati is going to cause such a kerfuffle from Cincinnatians that they would kill future improvements for rail, then good for them.  Cincinnati can cut itself off, and they can start the line in Columbus and use the savings on increased frequency.  Or better rolling stock.  Or how about speed?  In the end, if Cincinnatians want to hold the whole state hostage over whatever, 11 miles or so, then fine, leave them out and do 2-C right rather than 3-C half-assed.

Instead we're getting regular speed trains and the 2-CS Corridor.

 

No one in ORDC or the governor's office sold this project as anything but a "start-up" plan at 79 mph-- a FIRST step toward higher speeds.  If you have followed the discussions on UO, no one here sold it as anything different either.  There has been much discussion in these threads about why the project is starting out at 79 mph.   

 

You want real high speed rail right now?  Tell us how we are going to come up with $25-$40 million/per mile?  True HSR has been done incrementally throughout the world.  We're choosing the proven path here:  Start with conventional speeds and increase them from there.

Help me because I want to understand... if you took the train to Cleveland from elsewhere in the state, why would your destination be Cleveland's airport?  Didn't you just get here?

 

To catch a long distance flight somewhere else.  It's called intermodal connectivity :wink:

 

Then those slots that are being used to fly people between Cleveland and Cincinnati or Cleveland and Columbus can be used for a longer distance flight that will actually make money for the airlines. 

I give up.  If you guys don't want to come to the realization that there are political implications for any political action then we just need to accept that and move on.

 

You can believe what you want, but if something is promised in politics and isn't delivered, then there will be payback at the polls.  It could be for healthcare reform (Obama), spending (W. Bush), or whatever.  In this case it's a project that will require future state-wide support to get additional funding to bring the "Quick Start" plan up to better service and speeds.  To think that Cincinnatians won't be upset when they learn that they have been dropped from the map is delusional.

I might see the "political side" differently if there were some way to blame Cleveland for the fact that Cincinnati doesn't already have passenger rail infrastructure.  Cleveland can't force Cincinnati to become some liberal pinko People's Republic that prepares itself ahead of time for a massive public works project like this. 

 

Again, the local politics of Cincinnati are NOT the fault of its UO contingent... but it's also not fair to watch Cleveland spend its own money for decades to maintain a local rail system, and then expect everything to be equal when DC finally decides it's Rail Time.  It seems like this is an important discussion to be having WITHIN Hamilton County.  And it seems like Cleveland might have been right about something.

You're right rando.  Let's not vote for Obama next term because he didn't give Ohio all $8b of the rail money so we could have a true world class high speed rail system from the start.

 

I guess someone show me where it was "promised" we were going to have a completely finished high speed rail system right from the start.

I guess someone show me where it was "promised" we were going to have a completely finished high speed rail system right from the start.

 

Every single story out today describing the system is still calling it the 3-C Corridor and is stating that it will run from either downtown Cincinnati or Lunken Airfield to downtown Cleveland with stops in Sharonville, Dayton, Columbus, and suburban Cleveland.  Yet at the same time, the very person who helped put all this together is saying that Sharonville is now going to be the southern terminus.

 

I understand that tough choices have to be made since we didn't get the full amount requested, but all I'm saying is that there is political payback for that as well.  If you skipped Dayton to get to CUT the same thing would happen, or if you skimped on Cleveland it would happen there.  It's just a reality.  I'm not championing the idea, just stating the fact and letting those on this board (some of which are intimately involved with the project) know that this is bound to occur.

 

I just hope it's been accounted for, because the last thing I want is for this thing to fail politically even though it is successful in its application.  A political failure at the start of this project would set the whole effort back a generation.

I guess someone show me where it was "promised" we were going to have a completely finished high speed rail system right from the start.

 

Every single story out today describing the system is still calling it the 3-C Corridor and is stating that it will run from either downtown Cincinnati or Lunken Airfield to downtown Cleveland with stops in Sharonville, Dayton, Columbus, and suburban Cleveland.  Yet at the same time, the very person who helped put all this together is saying that Sharonville is now going to be the southern terminus.

 

I understand that tough choices have to be made since we didn't get the full amount requested, but all I'm saying is that there is political payback for that as well.  If you skipped Dayton to get to CUT the same thing would happen, or if you skimped on Cleveland it would happen there.  It's just a reality.  I'm not championing the idea, just stating the fact and letting those on this board (some of which are intimately involved with the project) know that this is bound to occur.

 

I just hope it's been accounted for, because the last thing I want is for this thing to fail politically even though it is successful in its application.  A political failure at the start of this project would set the whole effort back a generation.

 

Political backlash from what?  Not getting enough federal money?  Honestly, I think it stinks that AT THIS TIME it doesn't look like it will be feasible to go into downtown cincinnati.  But a couple of you are allowing your anger of that to get in the way of rationally looking at the big picture.  This is a HUGE day in Ohio.

Political backlash from what?  Not getting enough federal money?  Honestly, I think it stinks that AT THIS TIME it doesn't look like it will be feasible to go into downtown cincinnati.  But a couple of you are allowing your anger of that to get in the way of rationally looking at the big picture.

 

There's no more I can say to you if you still don't understand the rational I've presented for what I see to be an unavoidable political backlash.

 

This is a HUGE day in Ohio.

 

Yes it is. Now lets start working together on a plan to connect to CUT quickly before this gets out of our control.  If the news goes mainstream that corridor is no longer coming to Cincinnati (forget Sharonville), there will be bad press and bad voter sentiments...and that's the last thing any of us want.

^Says the person who lives in a city with light rail, adequate Amtrak service, and inclusion in the (apparently) 2-C Corridor. 

 

We've been fighting for any form of rail transit in Cincinnati for years, so it sucks that we're now getting cut out of the plans.  Also, to those out there who claim this is just temporary... that is possible, but temporary situations that arise due to budget concerns quite often become permanent, so please excuse Rando and I if we don't share your optimism.

Whoa.  This thread has gotten messy.  I am glad that funding was allocated for most of this corridor; some is better than none.  It is a shame that downtown Cincinnati wasn't able to make the cut this go-around.  But I supposed 10 miles to a Sharonville station is better than Akron's 35 mile trek to Puritas/W-150th station; or Toledo and Youngstown's current non-existence.  This is just the start, however!  But for now, Yay Ohio! :)

Again, is this just message board speculation or is it now official?

Ditto Rando and good job to all those who fought for this victory (KJP, All Aboard Ohio, etc.)

 

Seriously though, the Feds don't have enough money to connect the 3Cs but the interests in Florida get $1.25 billion for just Orlando-Tampa? I knew Florida would be a bigger winner than Ohio when I heard Obama would announce it there. There can be arguments made that Florida is bigger (18.5 million people) and Ohio only has 11.5 million people. But FL still wins out per capita and when you consider Ohio is pretty much just the 3C's compared to how small Orlando-Tampa is in the scheme of FL (see image below), it is pretty pathetic that Ohio wasn't used an example in how rail can rejuvenate an entire state.

 

Cincinnati got b!tch slapped and to a lesser extent, so did Ohio. Not like I'm biased toward Cincy and Ohio though...

 

Tampa-Orlando's $1.25 billion vs. 3C's $400 million

 

 

//EDIT: Duplicate post.

Again, is this just message board speculation or is it now official?

 

Ken Prendergast was quoted as saying that in order to make up the $100+ million gap that we'll have to probably use refurbished rolling stock and make Sharonville the southern terminus for now until there is more money for an extension to CUT.

 

This is from an All Aboard Ohio press release:

Yet another possible savings could come from making Sharonville the temporary southern terminus for 3C trains until plans and funding are in hand to extend trains to Cincinnati Union Terminal. The original proposal was to terminate trains at Lunken Field which was not the favored Cincinnati terminus based on public input given at hearings last year. Instead, Union Terminal was favored but cannot be immediately afforded. Making Sharonville the temporary southern terminus could save about $30 million.

 

There are a variety of savings options on the table and none have been officially selected, but it would seem that most of those savings measures will have to be employed in order to make up a $100M gap.

Whoa.  This thread has gotten messy.  I am glad that funding was allocated for most of this corridor; some is better than none.  It is a shame that downtown Cincinnati wasn't able to make the cut this go-around.  But I supposed 10 miles to a Sharonville station is better than Akron's 35 mile trek to Puritas/W-150th station; or Toledo and Youngstown's current non-existence.  This is just the start, however!  But for now, Yay Ohio! :)

 

Cincinnatians can call on the state legislature to add enough funds to bring the trains into CUT.  The rest of the state would support that.

Again, is this just message board speculation or is it now official?

 

Is what speculation?  That Ohio has been given stimulus money for the 3-C?  No, it's not speculation.  It's official.

 

Is any of this "leaving cincinnati out" argument based on real facts, or is it just speculation from the funding announcement? To me, it appears to be the latter.

 

Ken Prendergast from All Aboard Ohio was quoted as saying that to make up the difference we could refurbish old rolling stock instead of buying new, and also make Sharonville the southern terminus and wait to extend to CUT until the money is there.

 

Again, is this just message board speculation or is it now official?

 

It is speculation. No decisions have been made on what components should be scaled back. I have made suggestions based on All Aboard Ohio member input and what was said at the public hearings. All of you can and should make suggestions, too. And I'm grateful that you are.

 

BTW: please don't forget that I also suggested the proposed $55 million train maintenance and inspection facility at Cleveland also be scaled back.

 

So what will ODOT/ORDC decide to do? Polish your crystal balls, everyone, but keep the suggestions coming!

Looking at the other states/regions, if they couldnt afford a full Ohio system there are places the money could have went to upgrade to true high-speed service, especially Chicago/Milwaulkee or Chicago/Milwaulke/Madison.  It seems like the money going t Illinois will buy true 110 MPH service between Chicago and St Louis.  Another route would have been Chicago to Indianapolis, which would be a great high-speed connection.

 

Looks like California was the big winner in this.

 

 

For immediate release

January 28, 2010                                         

Contact: Dan Williamson, Mayor’s Office, 614-645-5300

 

Mayor Coleman Applauds Federal 3C Rail Funding

 

(Columbus)  After months of advocacy and discussion, today’s Federal ARRA Stimulus announcement of $400 million for the State of Ohio’s 3C Rail plan moves Columbus closer to connecting with Cleveland, Dayton and Cincinnati, and the national rail system, with high speed trains in the future.

 

“Our sincere thanks go out to President Obama, Governor Strickland, Congresswoman Mary Jo Kilroy and all those who have spoken out for improving Ohio’s transportation network with rail through Columbus,” said Mayor Coleman.  “We will work with ODOT and ORDC to make sure the station in downtown Columbus is a success not only for travelers, but also as a key to further economic development.  Columbus is ready for transportation alternatives, and we need to leverage this moment to create more rail options and multi-modal development.”

 

The Mayor joined the Governor, Mayor Mark Mallory of Cincinnati, Representative Kilroy, and hundreds of others today to receive the official word of the project funding from U.S. Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis at a Statehouse rally.

 

“Today, we are seeing the beginning of a new way to travel, and this new way to travel has left the station and is bound for Ohio,” said Governor Strickland.  “The 3C project will create jobs, jumpstart economic development and make transportation easier for people in Columbus and across the state. Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman and Congresswoman Mary Jo Kilroy have been two of our largest passenger rail advocates, and I thank them for their efforts to bring back rail to Ohio.”

 

President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden today announced that the U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) is awarding $8 billion to states across the country to develop America’s first nationwide program of high-speed intercity passenger rail service.  Funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), these dollars represent an historic investment in the country’s transportation infrastructure, which will help create jobs and transform travel in America.  The announcement is one of a number of job initiatives the President will lay out in the coming weeks that follow up on the continued commitment to job creation he discussed in last night’s State of the Union Address. 

 

Full list of the awards: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/hsr_awards_summary_public.pdf

 

“Through the Recovery Act, we are making the largest investment in infrastructure since the Interstate Highway System was created, putting Americans to work rebuilding our roads, bridges, and waterways for the future,” said President Obama. “That investment is how we can break ground across the country, putting people to work building high-speed rail lines, because there’s no reason why Europe or China should have the fastest trains when we can build them right here in America.”

Does anyone know how many miles of rail each state is getting and how fast?

 

Chris Matthews on Hardball quoted the NYT as saying Florida's Tampa-Orlando train will go 168mph.

Ohio's planned 3C rail corridor awarded $400 million in federal money

By MARK DODOSH

 

1:34 pm, January 28, 2010

 

...However, the award was not welcomed by state Sen. Jon Husted, who said construction and operation of the rail line could serve as one of the biggest money pits in Ohio history.

 

I predict that start-up costs will be greater than estimated, fewer people will ride it than projected, and the public subsidy to operate it will be greater than is being reported, Sen. Husted said.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100128/FREE/100129818

^

Husted is setting up the rationale for the GOP to pull the plug on the operating subsidy after a "decent interval". 

 

Chris Matthews on Hardball quoted the NYT as saying Florida's Tampa-Orlando train will go 168mph.

 

This is, I think, going to be the 'demonstration project' since they are building the line from scratch, or at least a part of it, since the article talks about new tracks.  This makes sense form a PR point of view since Orlando gets a lot of tourists to Disney, and Tampa/St Petes is also a vacation area (more St Petes and the beaches). 

 

So you can see this being marketed in Florida amost as a tourist attraction (such is the novelty of modern train travel in the US).

 

 

 

 

Being a Cincinnatian, I would much rather see the track stop in Sharonville than have no connection to Cincinnati at all. At least it makes the train more accessible to northern Cincinnatians and Hamiltonians who would otherwise not go for driving down 75.  ....just seeing the glass half full here

Husted is setting up the rationale for the GOP to pull the plug on the operating subsidy after a "decent interval". 

 

It's too bad that ideologues like Husted really oppose this because it's a Strickland/Democrat/Obama led initiative.  Pure politics.  He's making a "prediction" with out any evidence on which to base it. 

 

The partisan division that's choking Congress and our state legislatures is one of the things that's destroying America.  Some of these guys don't care about anything except political power and trying to win elections.

Husted is setting up the rationale for the GOP to pull the plug on the operating subsidy after a "decent interval".

 

It's too bad that ideologues like Husted really oppose this because it's a Strickland/Democrat/Obama led initiative. Pure politics. He's making a "prediction" with out any evidence on which to base it.

 

The partisan division that's choking Congress and our state legislatures is one of the things that's destroying America. Some of these guys don't care about anything except political power and trying to win elections.

 

Which was a big point in the state of the union address last night.  In one ear and out the other. 

KJP maybe you can help me with this.... I have been reading up about high speed rail systems proposed throughout different regions in the USA and the one in Ohio is by far the slowest. Why is this?

 

...I should say the rail system in the midwest appears to be the slowest.

So you can see this being marketed in Florida amost as a tourist attraction (such is the novelty of modern train travel in the US).

That's what I thought...plus, it ends at Disney World so that completes the novelty.

From cleve.com

 

Ohio rail fans cheer, but questions remain about $400 million train line

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/01/ohio_rail_fans_cheer_but_quest.html

 

"The trains will reach a top speed of 79 miles an hour, but average about 40 miles an hour, Prendergast said."

 

40 mph is high speed? We don't have this already? I am NOT trying to be a pessimist about this, I AM A GREEN LOVIN, TREE HUGGER for god sakes and I want this to work badly, but I am not seeing the light yet...

RAIL FAIL

KJP maybe you can help me with this.... I have been reading up about high speed rail systems proposed throughout different regions in the USA and the one in Ohio is by far the slowest. Why is this?

 

...I should say the rail system in the midwest appears to be the slowest.

 

Ours is the only one starting from scratch. Like I've said before, all new rail services start modestly.

No decisions have been made on what components should be scaled back. I have made suggestions based on All Aboard Ohio member input and what was said at the public hearings. All of you can and should make suggestions, too. And I'm grateful that you are.

 

BTW: please don't forget that I also suggested the proposed $55 million train maintenance and inspection facility at Cleveland also be scaled back.

 

With a $117 million gap to fill wouldn't there have to be both of those cutbacks?  Or is there going to be more money coming from another source?

Not sure. ODOT is hesitant to discuss what, if any, changes would have to be made. We'll have to wait and see.

Fair enough.  What do you think would be best for Cincinnatians to do in order to help ensure that a connection to CUT is included in this?  Anything beyond contacting their representatives?

It's too bad that ideologues like Husted really oppose this because it's a Strickland/Democrat/Obama led initiative.  Pure politics.  He's making a "prediction" with out any evidence on which to base it.

 

If Strickland wanted to play hardball he would pull the Dayton and Riverside stations as "cost saving moves" and reallocate $$$ to the CUT (or wherever downtown) extension as political payback, since Husted represents the Dayton area.

 

 

Fair enough. What do you think would be best for Cincinnatians to do in order to help ensure that a connection to CUT is included in this? Anything beyond contacting their representatives?

 

Participate in the All Aboard Ohio local meetings in Cincinnati and Dayton and help set the agenda. You don't have to be a member (but I hope you all do -- we need youth, new ideas, money :) etc). The next one for the Dayton area is coming up next week......

___________

 

Dear All Aboard Ohio member,

 

Good morning.  I am writing to you today to invite you to the first meeting of the 2010 calendar year for the All Aboard Ohio Southwest region.  Jim Wellman and I have reserved the Riverside Council Chambers (location listed below) from 7:30-8:30 p.m. Wednesday February the 3rd.  Please attend if you can.  We will be brainstorming the tangible and realistic goals that we can meet this year.

 

If I have forgotten anyone please send them the invitation as well.

 

Riverside Council Chambers

1791 Harshman Road

Riverside, OH 45424

 

Best regards,

 

Ryan Korchinski

Work - 937.222.3611

Cell - 937.470.1736

 

Also contact:

Jim Wellman

Home - 937-233-8333

Cell - 937-416-1819

Personally I would rather see a service upgrade on the train lines that already serve Cincinnati.  We already have trains going to Chicago and DC, and if those could be made high speed, and with more regular service, I would take that any day over a train to Columbus and Cleveland.  I mean, how many people actually travel between the 3C's anway? There might be a decent amount between Cincinnati and Columbus, and Columbus and Cleveland, but I can't see there being a ton of demand for people going to Cincinnati from Cleveland or vice versa.

40 mph?  Why would someone go on a train that wont giet them there faster than driving?  Im sure there are just as many people who want to be efficient with their time than there are people who cant afford to drive/want to help the environment.

 

As for Cleveland, why is the rail commencing at W. 150/Puritas?  I envisioned a nice little terminal area downtown, where other routes can stem from.  WHen i think of rail, i think termini in Rome, or St. Pancras in London (obviously Cleveland doesnt compare to those), but still it enhances the foot traffic and crowds.  W. 150 and puritas?