Corporex moving forward on next $45 million piece of Ovation

 

Corporex, the master developer of Ovation in Newport, is moving forward with the next phases of development of the riverfront property.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/06/01/exclusive-corporex-moving-forward-on-next-45m.html

 

All the charm of Tyson's Corner.  There's nothing at street level whatsoever.  It's basically this:  https://goo.gl/maps/RjeEue9x7TMewTBh9 

And a skywalk over the brand new but totally pedestrian-unfriendly street!

42 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

 

 

The bands get to look out at that courthouse annex.  

 

 

They have absolutely no idea what they’re doing. This is what you get when banks design cities. 

I love that in the article, Corporex brags about a development in Denver that they started in 2009.  As far as I can tell, it is less than half developed to this day, although something may have just started in November 2019. 

https://goo.gl/maps/PSAmKZHH2uaamr3P6   

Hilarious.  

 

Quote

 

Tom Banta, managing director of Corporex, said now might seem like a crazy time to be moving forward on a large-scale development project, but the company has historically had a lot of success starting work on major projects during a recession. Back in the heart of the Great Recession in 2009, Corporex started the $100 million Fitzsimons Village project in Denver, and Banta said they had a great experience with it.

“Building when no one else is building has real economic advantages to it,” Banta told me. “It’s hard to finance, you have to put more capital in, you’ve got to have the resources. But if you can do it, it’s a great time to be building.”

 

 

3 minutes ago, nicker66 said:

I love that in the article, Corporex brags about a development in Denver that they started in 2009.  As far as I can tell, it is less than half developed to this day, although something may have just started in November 2019. 

https://goo.gl/maps/PSAmKZHH2uaamr3P6   

Hilarious.  

 

 

 

Yeah but to Corporex, that is developed! They are slime balls. The only reason they went out to Denver, was because no one locally wanted to work with them anymore. The cheapskate crap they use to pull on architects, engineers, and contractors. This Ovation site would be better developed by someone else. Ovation should be renamed Fort Newport, The whole site is off the street grid and up in the air two stories. 

2 hours ago, savadams13 said:

They are slime balls. 

 

The Ascent was a complete debacle:

https://www.fox19.com/story/7859878/lawsuit-filed-against-corporex-over-the-ascent/

 

Also, they lost The Baldwin to foreclosure during the recession.  

06/19/20 Update:

On 6/1/2020 at 3:27 PM, ColDayMan said:

Corporex moving forward on next $45 million piece of Ovation

 

Corporex, the master developer of Ovation in Newport, is moving forward with the next phases of development of the riverfront property.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/06/01/exclusive-corporex-moving-forward-on-next-45m.html

 

This is arguably the same thing that they're doing at The Banks -- development is only over a certain height to deal with floodplain/insurance issues. It just... sucks for pedestrians all the time. What Cinci did right is that the street level is also elevated above garage, although that's obviously insanely expensive compared to... this.

44 minutes ago, jebleprls22 said:

This is arguably the same thing that they're doing at The Banks -- development is only over a certain height to deal with floodplain/insurance issues. It just... sucks for pedestrians all the time. What Cinci did right is that the street level is also elevated above garage, although that's obviously insanely expensive compared to... this.

 

It is but then again, it's not. Newport has a flood berm that is elevated to withstand a 500-year flood. This part of Ovation is behind that berm so floodplain regulations do not apply since the land is protected by the berm.

 

This is just bad planning. 

^So are there actual insurance issues, despite the fact that the site is located behind a giant levee system that has never been compromised?

 

Manhattan Harbor's home lots are outside Bellevue's levee but high enough that they likely never will be menaced by flood waters.  

What the heck is up with that lane configuration? Are the middle lanes express lanes? 

9 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

What the heck is up with that lane configuration? Are the middle lanes express lanes? 

 

Basically.  It's a disaster zone.  This plus the traffic circles make the whole place pedestrian and bike unfriendly.  

3 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

What the heck is up with that lane configuration? Are the middle lanes express lanes? 

 

In a way yes, since no turns are allowed.  The frontage/access roads on either side have parking and access to the various properties.  The tough part is that to drive from one access road to the other (legally) requires you to go to the roundabouts at the Taylor Southgate Bridge or the 4th Street Bridge and loop all the way around. https://goo.gl/maps/5BomYUeNE9Tcs5xP6 I actually find it ok for biking, as you just use the service road, but there's no way to bypass the roundabouts and the merge back onto the "main" road requires a lot of neck craning, whether in a car or on a bike.  

 

Regarding flooding, if you draw a line due south from the Taylor Southgate Bridge roundabout, everything west of there to the Licking River is in what FEMA calls an "area of reduced flood risk due to levee."  So there's still flood risk issues.  In fact, the Ovation site looks to be in a high risk A area whereas it goes to B and C the farther south you go.  This may be due not so much to risk from levee failure or river flooding, but in a 100 year event stormwater behind the levee may not be able to be pumped out fast enough.  

7 minutes ago, jjakucyk said:

 but in a 100 year event stormwater behind the levee may not be able to be pumped out fast enough.  

 

When I lived in Athens, there was often flooding behind the levee system due to drainage/sewer problems.  A bike path tops the levee...there were times when the big box stores and strip malls had to close because their parking lots flooded:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Athens,+OH+45701/@39.3372152,-82.0690836,1705m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88487a8a2843c5d3:0x30b0012f06624a2b!8m2!3d39.3292396!4d-82.1012554

2 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

^So are there actual insurance issues, despite the fact that the site is located behind a giant levee system that has never been compromised?

 

Manhattan Harbor's home lots are outside Bellevue's levee but high enough that they likely never will be menaced by flood waters.  

 

Flood insurance isn't required in an area protected b a certified levy, but it is "strongly recommended" by FEMA. They could develop the ground level and leave it uninsured, but they'd be taking on a moderate risk. They'd probably insure it, which drives up the overall investment.

 

I've designed a few buildings in flood plains and the cheapest/easiest option for those has been to... pile up dirt until the site is high enough to be above the 1% flood plain.

 

 

4 hours ago, BigDipper 80 said:

What the heck is up with that lane configuration? Are the middle lanes express lanes? 

 

I think this has become a popular street configuration in places where a New Urbanist development gets squeezed around a medium/high traffic arterial — here's a similarly designed street in Bothell, WA. It's an attempt to satisfy everyone's wants (limited access high speed lanes for thru traffic + "business access" lanes with tons of parallel parking that also double as bike lanes) but results in a really wide and ugly street.

18 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

I think this has become a popular street configuration in places where a New Urbanist development gets squeezed around a medium/high traffic arterial — here's a similarly designed street in Bothell, WA. It's an attempt to satisfy everyone's wants (limited access high speed lanes for thru traffic + "business access" lanes with tons of parallel parking that also double as bike lanes) but results in a really wide and ugly street.

 

It's like the Champs-Élysées (at least before the access roads were turned into sidewalks) but without quite achieving the proper scale of buildings or sidewalks in comparison to the huge amount of space dedicated to cars and bio-swales.  Still, I'd say the Bothell, WA designers did a lot of things right, considering that would otherwise be a 13-lane monster.  Newport's street has the advantage of being smaller, but it's completely barren.  There's no trees in the planting strips, and there's also no accommodation for trees at the parallel parking bays or sidewalk, so it might just as well be an 8-laner for all the opportunities they're squandering.  

Does anyone know or heard rumblings about the next phase of Ovation? Driving the AA highway yesterday there was piling drilling happening pretty far from the already built pedestrian bridge and I hadn't seen anything talking about the next phase of Ovation actually happening.

 

It was close to the 4th street bridge so it might be infrastructure or riverfront commons related, but again I can't find anything about it. With the concert venue, office and hotel still pretty far from completion I would be very surprised to see the next phase already starting.

Dueling music venues nearing completion in Cincinnati, Newport

 

Both of the indoor/outdoor music venues that are under construction near the Ohio River are expected to be completed soon.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/12/16/dueling-music-venues-nearing-completion-in-cincinn.html

 

26 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

Dueling music venues nearing completion in Cincinnati, Newport

 

Both of the indoor/outdoor music venues that are under construction near the Ohio River are expected to be completed soon.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/12/16/dueling-music-venues-nearing-completion-in-cincinn.html

 

Honestly the Newport Venue is pretty ugly.

^They've already got the barrier set up to keep the juggalo's off the stage. 

The Newport venue has a terrible architectural and urban design, but will have a great operator and attract better talent. The Cincinnati venue is architecturally beautiful and well-integrated with The Banks and Smale Park, but will be managed by the group that destroyed MPMF.

34 minutes ago, taestell said:

The Newport venue has a terrible architectural and urban design, but will have a great operator and attract better talent. The Cincinnati venue is architecturally beautiful and well-integrated with The Banks and Smale Park, but will be managed by the group that destroyed MPMF.

The Cincinnati venue is going to be extremely busy with events that are not concert related as well. So I think they both can be successful.

Edited December 17, 20204 yr by 646empire

3 hours ago, 646empire said:

Honestly the Newport Venue is pretty ugly.

The entire Ovation developement is (going to be) pretty ugly.

When is the office and hotel on the western end supposed to be added? 

4 hours ago, taestell said:

The Newport venue has a terrible architectural and urban design, but will have a great operator and attract better talent. The Cincinnati venue is architecturally beautiful and well-integrated with The Banks and Smale Park, but will be managed by the group that destroyed MPMF.

omg! I'm so glad someone else remembers that too.  I will never forget midpoint, favorite music festival I've ever been to.  There was still a mpmf website a year ago i think, no idea why though because it hadn't been updated at all...

9 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

When is the office and hotel on the western end supposed to be added? 

I haven't heard anything in a LONG time

The pedestrian bridge was being put in place this weekend, and there is now a continuous concrete footing that follows base of the earthen levee for hundreds of feet with drilled caissons under it.  Despite nothing being stated publicly, money is being spent on the ovation site for first time since they demolished all public housing. 

 

This is a bad picture, but you can kind of see the footing along the levee wall. 

Ovation has vertical concrete. I'm still skeptical since this site has sat empty for nearly two decades but it's definitely moving along. I really hope this addresses the street and not just the levee walk but with the skywalk connecting over to the music venue I'm not confident. 

11 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Ovation has vertical concrete. I'm still skeptical since this site has sat empty for nearly two decades but it's definitely moving along. I really hope this addresses the street and not just the levee walk but with the skywalk connecting over to the music venue I'm not confident. 

What is the purpose of this concrete? 

11 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Ovation has vertical concrete. I'm still skeptical since this site has sat empty for nearly two decades but it's definitely moving along.

Does anybody have the latest renderings? It's been so many years in the works, I can't recall what the latest design is. 

As far as I know this is the still the current site plan (below). I think this vertical concrete wall is just to avoid building on the levee wall itself. But I can't tell if it lines up with the front edge of the smaller residential in yellow or the taller mixed use buildings in orange. The gap between the wall and the levee has to be filled with something, unless Corporex is only building up to this new concrete wall and letting/making the city and army corps of engineers do the levee work which would explain why that's all labeled as "future riverfront park". 

19 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

Hotel and office building are going in right now.This could be a new pad for another project phase though.

https://www.rcnky.com/articles/2020/06/09/hotel-office-space-part-next-phase-newports-ovation

19 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

 

As far as I know this is the still the current site plan (below). I think this vertical concrete wall is just to avoid building on the levee wall itself. But I can't tell if it lines up with the front edge of the smaller residential in yellow or the taller mixed use buildings in orange. The gap between the wall and the levee has to be filled with something, unless Corporex is only building up to this new concrete wall and letting/making the city and army corps of engineers do the levee work which would explain why that's all labeled as "future riverfront park". 

 

3 hours ago, ucgrady said:

As far as I know this is the still the current site plan (below). I think this vertical concrete wall is just to avoid building on the levee wall itself. But I can't tell if it lines up with the front edge of the smaller residential in yellow or the taller mixed use buildings in orange. The gap between the wall and the levee has to be filled with something, unless Corporex is only building up to this new concrete wall and letting/making the city and army corps of engineers do the levee work which would explain why that's all labeled as "future riverfront park". 

 

I've been over there looking at it. They have a bunch of the white manufactured soil fill blocks (you experts probably know what that stuff is called) on site. I think what they are doing is constructing the wall up to the height of (or just above) the levee in order to create a "front yard" effect. The soil fill blocks are cheaper hats hauling in clean fill, I assume. Basically it becomes a flat plateau on the top of the level instead of it closing back down. Doing it this way probably relieved them of ACE approvals as they are not excavating into the levee, just fortifying the backside. (???)

Re: the skywalk - To me what they are doing is establishing the height of the levee as "ground level" so that there is a strong ped connection form the river/levee to the music venue. Goven where the office and hotel parcels are located in relation to the already constructed skywalk, I think it will actually work out well. The section of "future/potential building is the spot most likely to fail in the street presence category. It mentions plaza level retail...barf. This part is the next phase to be built so we should find out soon.

 

Here are more pics and info:

https://www.corporex.com/our-real-estate-portfolio/mixed-use-development/

 

Thoughts?

 

Edited May 21, 20214 yr by Rabbit Hash
Added link to Corporex.

I was just driving by so I didn't notice the geofoam blocks you are describing but what your saying makes a lot of sense. And I agree with you on the idea of the levee height being the new ground plane, my problem with that is that Newport on the Levee already does that and at some point they need address the city too. It's just going to be weird to have two disparate insulated developments that are internally facing like that with no relation to each other or to the city behind them. 

 

Here's my assumption of the construction based on your note of the geofoam with the flat yard being the light fill to keep the levee mostly as-is. 

This project is large, it’s strange that it hasn’t gotten much of any publicity after such a long hiatus. Also unless they add a fence you’ll be able to see the outdoor stage for free

I get an 80's Dutch feel here.

 

 

https://www.corporex.com/our-real-estate-portfolio/mixed-use-development/

2 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

I get an 80's Dutch feel here.

 

Rottendam

The garage platform for the area I circled in red is out for bid now.  The area I circled in blue does not have a garage platform so I assume that is how they make the effort to bring things back down to street level. 

 

It appears they will follow the Banks strategy to build a massive parking platform and then build on top in phases as needed.  My guess is that the apartment buildings will go right away, and the office space is only built if they have the traditional amount of signed tenants to proceed.  

Edited May 24, 20214 yr by nicker66

the Ovation/Newport street modifications always remind me of a brittle star...  random swoopy legs inching across the grid.  unfortunate.

On 5/21/2021 at 2:21 PM, ucgrady said:

I was just driving by so I didn't notice the geofoam blocks you are describing but what your saying makes a lot of sense. And I agree with you on the idea of the levee height being the new ground plane, my problem with that is that Newport on the Levee already does that and at some point they need address the city too. It's just going to be weird to have two disparate insulated developments that are internally facing like that with no relation to each other or to the city behind them. 

 

Here's my assumption of the construction based on your note of the geofoam with the flat yard being the light fill to keep the levee mostly as-is. 

Not bad for a rookie at this stuff, eh?  

 

One random thought: Hopefully this development is clearly visible on TV during Reds broadcasts. I think of the newer stadia that have been built and the changing out field views they've had...and then there's Cincinnati. 

Edited May 24, 20214 yr by Rabbit Hash

1 hour ago, Rabbit Hash said:

 

 

One random thought: Hopefully this development is clearly visible on TV during Reds broadcasts. I think of the newer stadia that have been built and the changing out field views they've had...and then there's Cincinnati. 

This is not a good look, though. It looks like an Embassy Suites trying to disguise itself as giant houses.

22 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

This is not a good look, though. It looks like an Embassy Suites trying to disguise itself as giant houses.

 

It'll still look cool at night. But yea, don't love the architecture.

1 hour ago, DEPACincy said:

 

It'll still look cool at night. But yea, don't love the architecture.

The front buildings do not look too bad but yes the back residential looks like crap. Hopefully they’ve realized and by the time they get started on construction it’s a different look. 

5 hours ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

The front buildings do not look too bad but yes the back residential looks like crap. Hopefully they’ve realized and by the time they get started on construction it’s a different look. 

This is Corporex we're talking about. The Ascent is the only halfway decent structure I've ever seen them build. 

^I had an interview with them in 2007 for an analyst position and all people did when I told them about how I talked to them was crap on them. I was like, "I work in a carpet warehouse right now, this would be 1000X better" but I guess other people didn't understand my predicament.

9 hours ago, Rabbit Hash said:

Not bad for a rookie at this stuff, eh?  

 

One random thought: Hopefully this development is clearly visible on TV during Reds broadcasts. I think of the newer stadia that have been built and the changing out field views they've had...and then there's Cincinnati. 

 

It's tough when a lot of times the camera points straight at the river. At least Cincinnati doesn't get the steam off the river that smells like come like Portsmouth does.

19 hours ago, DEPACincy said:

 

It'll still look cool at night. But yea, don't love the architecture.

 

 

Yeah. Fingers crossed. I know we joke a lot about some of these developments in our core and how they are more suited for the West Chester/Mason throwaway corporate architecture scene but in this case that criticism seems to fit too well.