And dueling Ferris wheels! (Except, isn't Cincinnati's temporary?)

 

$40 Million Music Venue Coming to Newport's Ovation Site

 

The first phase of the Ovation development in Newport will include what developers are calling "a world class music venue". An announcement took place at the riverfront site late Thursday morning. Covington-based Corporex, which owns the long-dormant site, reached an agreement with AEG Presents/PromoWest to construct the $40 million venue.

It doesn't really have anything to do with our city's music scene...these are venues for national touring artists.

 

And I hope that this announcement puts some doubt in the minds of MEMI (combined with the issue of having to move Hilltop Concrete) and causes them to pull the plug on that venue.

 

Cincinnati is really, really good at squandering opportunities.

3 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Can our city support 3 music venues? (The banks, Riverbend, Ovation among the various other concert venues in Cincy)...

 

I wasn't aware our city was experiencing such massive unexpected growth in the music scene. 

Seems to me that is MEMI's problem to step up and fix. PromoWest will bring acts in that are new to the area, and saw enough of a demand for those acts that they wanted to come here and provide us a place to see them. Doesn't matter to them whether that was Cincinnati or Covington, but it sure seemed to matter to the people in MEMI.

Has anyone seen the acts MEMI has been booking in the past 18 months? Y'all are acting like they've got the Moody Blues coming up here... 

7 minutes ago, taestell said:

It doesn't really have anything to do with our city's music scene...these are venues for national touring artists.

 

And I hope that this announcement puts some doubt in the minds of MEMI (combined with the issue of having to move Hilltop Concrete) and causes them to pull the plug on that venue.

 

Cincinnati is really, really good at squandering opportunities.

 

Wouldn't that be a bad look for city officials/Hamilton county to back out of the banks music venue? If I was a city official this would be more motivation to get the banks project moving forward. 

Edited May 9, 20196 yr by troeros

Gotta think this would only benefit music fans. A little competition never hurt.

 

Unfortunately it might hurt places like Bogarts.

To be honest i was expecting PromoWest to build something near the FCC stadium and that all the shadiness about the land expansions and unseen development renders had something to do with that. Maybe it did at some point but they found Newport easier to work with so they jumped ship. I hope they do well there, perhaps this will help the Banks just as much as it being on the Ohio side with the benefit of having perhaps two concerts at once or staggered between the two event centers for even more people in the area. Much more of a win for The Banks than a PromoWest center in the West End.

1 minute ago, tonyt3524 said:

Gotta think this would only benefit music fans. A little competition never hurt.

 

Unfortunately it might hurt places like Bogarts.

 

Maybe, but I think they have a niche with their college student base. 

 

I don't know, I think our city is growing and has a lot of momentum right now. I'm definitely happy we are not Cleveland... That city feels so depressed right now and there consistent population decline isn't helping. 

 

Hopefully 3 venues can be successful in Cincy. This sure as hell isn't your circa 2000 Cincy that was a dump and nothing to do except Mt Adams and Fountain Square stuff.

 

3 minutes ago, tonyt3524 said:

Gotta think this would only benefit music fans. A little competition never hurt.

 

Unfortunately it might hurt places like Bogarts.

 

PromoWest has similarly-sized venues in Columbus, Pittsbugh, and now Cincinnati (in addition to owning the Bunbury music festival). They will likely offer artists a package deal to play at all three venues on their tour.

 

This new venue doesn't really compete with Bogart's. Bogart's has a capacity of 1,500 and is indoor-only. The new PromoWest venue will have an outdoor capacity of 7,000 and an indoor capacity of 2,800. The MEMI venue (if built) and PNC Pavilion each have a capacity of about 4,000.

30 minutes ago, taestell said:

It doesn't really have anything to do with our city's music scene...these are venues for national touring artists.

 

And I hope that this announcement puts some doubt in the minds of MEMI (combined with the issue of having to move Hilltop Concrete) and causes them to pull the plug on that venue.

 

Cincinnati is really, really good at squandering opportunities.

 

Porque no los dos? 

 

Edited May 9, 20196 yr by Chas Wiederhold

3 minutes ago, Chas Wiederhold said:

 

Porque no los dos? 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. Isn't this common for large cities, to have a pelethora of music venue options?

 

NKY is basically Cincinnati anyways. We should embrace our options and take pride in the fact that Cincy is slowly growing out of this image of sleepy little rustbelt city...

It doesn't make any sense for Cincinnati and Newport to have twin indoor/outdoor music venues directly across the river from each other. All it's going to do is split the market. Each of the venues will sit empty for about half the year or more. This is why retailers are not surviving at The Banks or Newport on the Levee! We need to fill our city with mixed-use developments. Instead we seem to have developed an obsession with adding more and more entertainment venues.

Just further proof the the banks steering committee and the blue bloods that run Cincy are a bunch of idiots.  I hope the banks music venue still gets built but I bet it won't.  So we'll have more land at the banks sit empty because Castellini and company wanted to be stupid homers.  Even Cranley was smart enough to know PromoWest was a much better option then MEMI.  

2 minutes ago, taestell said:

It doesn't make any sense for Cincinnati and Newport to have twin indoor/outdoor music venues directly across the river from each other. All it's going to do is split the market. Each of the venues will sit empty for about half the year or more. This is why retailers are not surviving at The Banks or Newport on the Levee! We need to fill our city with mixed-use developments. Instead we seem to have developed an obsession with adding more and more entertainment venues.

 

I thought the banks was almost 90 percent leased and has been quite successful lately? 

 

I can't necessarily speak for weekdays, but on weekends the restaurants their are always packed and so are the bars. The new Galla night club always has a line stretching onto the street. 

 

I always see rows of family in line by the ferris wheel and kids playing by the river edge and in the parks...

 

So I'm a bit confused on that bit...

5 minutes ago, taestell said:

It doesn't make any sense for Cincinnati and Newport to have twin indoor/outdoor music venues directly across the river from each other. All it's going to do is split the market. Each of the venues will sit empty for about half the year or more. This is why retailers are not surviving at The Banks or Newport on the Levee! We need to fill our city with mixed-use developments. Instead we seem to have developed an obsession with adding more and more entertainment venues.

I was hoping for some mid rise apartment buildings with some restaurant and retail space. Looks like now all we’ll see is townhomes and maybe some low rise apartments buildings. Pretty disappointed in all the hype I was having.

1 minute ago, Cincy513 said:

Just further proof the the banks steering committee and the blue bloods that run Cincy are a bunch of idiots.  I hope the banks music venue still gets built but I bet it won't.  So we'll have more land at the banks sit empty because Castellini and company wanted to be stupid homers.  Even Cranley was smart enough to know PromoWest was a much better option then MEMI.  

 

This forum is terribly depressing at times. 

 

Competition is good, not a bad thing. 

 

Also, who cares if promo West is in newport? It's basically cincinnati anyways. 

Was their any other renderings or news other than the concert hall?

Did they release how many units they are planning?  If any?

Edited May 9, 20196 yr by oakiehigh

1 minute ago, troeros said:

I can't necessarily speak for weekdays, but on weekends the restaurants their are always packed and so are the bars. The new Galla night club always has a line stretching onto the street. 

 

That's exactly the point. If The Banks is packed on weekends and game days but dead on weeknights, that's not healthy. It needs a mix of uses to survive. It should have more residents and office workers, and more businesses that cater to residents and office workers, not just entertainment venues and bars that cater to people visiting those entertainment venues. The whole point of The Banks was that it was going to be a continuation of Downtown Cincinnati, not a Suburbanite Party Zone.

the competition created between competing music venues in the city is one thing, and a worthwhile discussion....but having just moved out of the Newport's East Row, after living there for ~7years,  I can tell you that i could stand in my back yard and hear bunbury, and the macy's music festival. Those things  were tolerable because they are one-off type of events and it was kind-of cool, halfway between a perk and a consequence of living in the city. An outdoor concert venue surrounded by what amounts to a largely single family residential type urban settings seem to be a fairly precarious proposition, and is going to have to wrestle with the implications of that. Promowest's developments in columbus and pittsburgh are urban, but are not situated in the type of setting as this one will be in Newport. should be interesting to watch.

4 minutes ago, troeros said:

This forum is terribly depressing at times. 

 

Competition is good, not a bad thing. 

 

Also, who cares if promo West is in newport? It's basically cincinnati anyways. 

 

I think you are missing the point of why people are frustrated.

Just now, taestell said:

 

That's exactly the point. If The Banks is packed on weekends and game days but dead on weeknights, that's not healthy. It needs a mix of uses to survive. It should have more residents and office workers, and more businesses that cater to residents and office workers, not just entertainment venues and bars that cater to people visiting those entertainment venues. The whole point of The Banks was that it was going to be a continuation of Downtown Cincinnati, not a Suburbanite Party Zone.

 

I mean to be fair otr is pretty dead on weekdays as well (at least compared to the weekend). Our core as a whole from the banks, CBD, otr, west end, Mt Auburn, etc can use more residents. 

Didn't Southgate house close a year or two ago? Would this project essentially replace some of the acts that went there?

6 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

This forum is terribly depressing at times. 

 

Competition is good, not a bad thing. 

 

Also, who cares if promo West is in newport? It's basically cincinnati anyways. 

I hope the banks music venue still moves forward but I'm not betting on it.  They could have just picked the right operator from the beginning and this wouldn't be a problem.  And no Newport is not bascially Cincinnati.  It is in a different state.  The city makes zero money off this music venue in Newport whereas they would have made lots of money if the venue was at the banks.  There's a reason why Cincy and Kentucky have competed with each other for business for all of history.  They are two separate entities that have two separate agendas.  

1 minute ago, troeros said:

I mean to be fair otr is pretty dead on weekdays as well (at least compared to the weekend).

 

Disagree. Ziegler Park, Washington Park, Vine Street, Main Street ... all filled with activity on weeknights (as long as the weather is decent). People who live in the area are coming and going to and from work, running errands, eating at restaurants, walking their dogs, going for a run ... tons of activity.

 

Total contrast with the Banks. 

1 minute ago, taestell said:

 

I think you are missing the point of why people are frustrated.

 

Congrats promowest is heading to nky (which is cincinnati with the name KY in front of it). 

 

Also congrats, ovation is replacing the once promised dense towers full of residential and retail options with a music venue and low rise buildings. With Newport on the Levee suffering this is a bigger blow for that region in the long run.

 

No one is upset that PromoWest is investing in Newport. Again, you are missing the point about why people are frustrated.

1 minute ago, Cincy513 said:

I hope the banks music venue still moves forward but I'm not betting on it.  They could have just picked the right operator from the beginning and this wouldn't be a problem.  And no Newport is not bascially Cincinnati.  It is in a different state.  The city makes zero money off this music venue in Newport whereas they would have made lots of money if the venue was at the banks.  There's a reason why Cincy and Kentucky have competed with each other for business for all of history.  They are two separate entities that have two separate agendas.  

 

Im sorry but I consider someone who lives in northern KY more of a Cincinnatian than someone who lives in west Chester or Mason. 

 

Kentucky as a whole recognizes the fact that northern KY is a compete outcast to the rest of the Kentucky region.

4 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Didn't Southgate house close a year or two ago? Would this project essentially replace some of the acts that went there?

They moved to 6th street and the old venue became Thomspon House. Not really since those places typically book bands with smaller draws than the size of a Promowest or PNC Pavillion crowd.

5 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

That's exactly the point. If The Banks is packed on weekends and game days but dead on weeknights, that's not healthy. It needs a mix of uses to survive. It should have more residents and office workers, and more businesses that cater to residents and office workers, not just entertainment venues and bars that cater to people visiting those entertainment venues. The whole point of The Banks was that it was going to be a continuation of Downtown Cincinnati, not a Suburbanite Party Zone.

First of all I don't at all agree that the banks is dead on non gamedays.  I walk through it to and from work everyday.  When it's nice out the park and restaurants are crowded on weeknights even if there isn't something specific going on.  Putting the music venue there would have only increased the crowds. 

 

I agree more residential, office and hotel space should be built there but it's not like there is a shortage of space.  The banks isn't even halfway built out yet.  For some reason the city and county continue to sit on their hands and make this the slowest development.  Why have they not started building something on the area south of GE?  The parking deck is already built and a company proposed development over a year ago.  Instead the stupid banks steering committee just sit and wait for the perfect opportunity to come up while the rest of the city and country is in full development mode.

2 minutes ago, taestell said:

 

Disagree. Ziegler Park, Washington Park, Vine Street, Main Street ... all filled with activity on weeknights (as long as the weather is decent). People who live in the area are coming and going to and from work, running errands, eating at restaurants, walking their dogs, going for a run ... tons of activity.

 

Total contrast with the Banks. 

 

I've seen all of this activity at the banks on weekdays before. Again, not sure what your talking about...it's almost as if your saying the banks is a total ghost town on weekdays with not a soul in sight. That's absolutely not true. I see kids, I see families at smale, I see people walking their dogs, I see people on red bikes and lime scotters, I see people eating at taste of beglium, etc...Your making the banks sound way worse off than reality.

8 minutes ago, dlueg said:

the competition created between competing music venues in the city is one thing, and a worthwhile discussion....but having just moved out of the Newport's East Row, after living there for ~7years,  I can tell you that i could stand in my back yard and hear bunbury, and the macy's music festival. Those things  were tolerable because they are one-off type of events and it was kind-of cool, halfway between a perk and a consequence of living in the city. An outdoor concert venue surrounded by what amounts to a largely single family residential type urban settings seem to be a fairly precarious proposition, and is going to have to wrestle with the implications of that. Promowest's developments in columbus and pittsburgh are urban, but are not situated in the type of setting as this one will be in Newport. should be interesting to watch.

I think the sound is a huge issue. When I worked for Bellevue there as a barge transfer terminal across the river that we could hear unloading pretty well even halfway up the hill. 

 

Point is that sound in the basin bounces around more than most realize. While everyone can handle some temporary disruption, if these outdoor venues are both going at full blast, it's going to reduce the desirability of downtown living. 

7 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Congrats promowest is heading to nky (which is cincinnati with the name KY in front of it). 

 

Also congrats, ovation is replacing the once promised dense towers full of residential and retail options with a music venue and low rise buildings. With Newport on the Levee suffering this is a bigger blow for that region in the long run.

 

Where did they make any mention of low rise buildings?  Besides the music venue and parking garage all I've seen mentioned is "When completed, the site is expected to include a mix of apartments and condos, restaurants, entertainment venues and hotels."  They also have a rendering of Ovation with some pretty big buildings but I think that's been round for a while.  Just not sure what you're getting disappointed about since they seem to be very general in what the rest of the development will be. 

1 minute ago, Cincy513 said:

Where did they make any mention of low rise buildings?  Besides the music venue and parking garage all I've seen mentioned is "When completed, the site is expected to include a mix of apartments and condos, restaurants, entertainment venues and hotels."  They also have a rendering of Ovation with some pretty big buildings but I think that's been round for a while.  Just not sure what you're getting disappointed about since they seem to be very general in what the rest of the development will be. 

 

Twitter news anchors reported that the site plan has changed. Obviously promo West Concert Venue is anchor but previous tower developments have been scaled back according to news bit tweets I've read.

I  In the big picture, if this allows the area to turn into a vibrant neighborhood, it will be a win for the region.

Article said there would be a pedestrian bridge over KY 9 connecting this venue to the rest of the Ovation site.  I don't really understand where put it.  Does that mean the music venue is going in east of the new traffic circle in between 3rd and 5th?

 

 

Also, concerning outdoor concerts in the basin, the Casino quit doing their outdoor concerts on the lawn.  I don't really know why as they seemed to draw well.

call it The Columbus since The Newport is in Columbus and owned by the same people

Just now, GCrites80s said:

call it The Columbus since The Newport is in Columbus and owned by the same people

 

I actually love this. "The Columbus Pavilion."

Quote

The 38,000-square-foot indoor concert venue will hold 2,800 people, and an outdoor amphitheater with more than an acre of lawn will seat 7,000, Stienecker said. The concert venue will be built on a 550-space parking garage.

 

This thing isn't going to be very big.  The PNC Pavillion at Riverbend holds 4,100 people under the roof.  The main Riverbend facility has seating for 6,000 under the roof and a total of 20,000 including the lawn.  

 

As someone above mentioned, this is going to have a similar impact to the casino's concerts, which is to say not much.  

 

PromoWest owns a lot of venues of various sizes around Columbus, from a few hundred people up to 5,200. There's a lot of different venues around town really and it ends up working. Hell, we built two arenas at almost the same time!

So if MEMI music venue doesn’t happen, the county will have to pay to move Hilltop Concrete and build a parking garage base at the Banks lot before they can start on a low rise residential or office building where the venue would have gone. That project is never going to pencil out.

Edited May 9, 20196 yr by thebillshark

If the MEMI music venue doesn't happen, they can focus on developing the block immediately to the south of GE/Radius where the parking garage podium has already been built. The whole issue with tailgating and whether Hilltop needs to move can be pushed out another 5 years or so.

55 minutes ago, troeros said:

Kentucky as a whole recognizes the fact that northern KY is a compete outcast to the rest of the Kentucky region.

 

Not in this thread but I'd love to hear your research on this.

3 minutes ago, taestell said:

The whole issue with tailgating and whether Hilltop needs to move can be pushed out another 5 years or so.

 

Right when the Bengals are renegotiating their lease on PBS, great.

9 minutes ago, Rabbit Hash said:

 

Not in this thread but I'd love to hear your research on this.

 

 

yankees

There’s a chance both of these could coexist.  What I liked about the MEMI choice was it gave them a chance to do more creative, artistic, or local things that Promowest would not be interested in. So maybe having both would create a good variety.

 

Theres also a (large) chance that the entertainment dollar of the market size only goes so far, and “concert fatigue” will set in leading to one outcompeting the other or having two underutilized venues limping along. 

 

There is also a chance the culture changes abruptly and the current concert business model disappears completely in 10 years.

Hamilton county leaders as well as CSO officials have said the promo West will not deter the banks venue on Twitter today. Denise Driehaus also commented over Twitter stating that the banks venue is still on and will just add healthy competition for the 2 venues. 

14 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

There is also a chance the culture changes abruptly and the current concert business model disappears completely in 10 years.

Due to how hard it is to make money via spotify and streaming services, I don't think this is likely. Outside of the Taylor Swifts of the world, most bands NEED to tour and do live shows to make money. 

 

Based on the acts their other venues bring in, MEMI will bring in the B list country stars and nostalgia based acts that can't sell out Riverbend. PromoWest will bring in the medium sized indie bands that are too big for the Madison/Bogarts but too small for US bank. I can see both succeeding with little overlap, except for the events that would have ended up in Taft Theater, but that has it's own historic theater aesthetic that some tours seek out. 

32 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

 

There is also a chance the culture changes abruptly and the current concert business model disappears completely in 10 years.

 

Yeah.  Old rappers don't draw anyone, and EDM DJ's aren't even doing anything other than pressing play on their laptops.  Who in 2035 wants to go see a 55 year-old press play on his laptop?

 

25 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Yeah.  Old rappers don't draw anyone, and EDM DJ's aren't even doing anything other than pressing play on their laptops.  Who in 2035 wants to go see a 55 year-old press play on his laptop?

 

That's why the smart EDM artists wear masks.

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

Yeah.  Old rappers don't draw anyone, and EDM DJ's aren't even doing anything other than pressing play on their laptops.  Who in 2035 wants to go see a 55 year-old press play on his laptop?

 

 

Old rappers don't draw anyone? Yea, that's not even remotely true. Snoop, Ice Cube, Nas, Jay-Z, Andre 3000, Eminem, Wu-Tang, DMX, etc. all out here still selling out arenas.