On 2/20/2023 at 11:04 AM, LibertyBlvd said:

The Monsters are playing there on March 4th.  It's nice to see other events at FES besides Browns football.

Well, at least that was the plan. 

 

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/cleveland-monsters-outdoor-clasic-delayed/95-6e6de8c2-2acd-4823-a32c-64ca5fb51deb

What an utter disappointment. I've been to a lot of sporting events over the years, but I've rarely seen people this angry. It's amazing that so many people signed off on a 1pm start time. In no world should a 1pm start time be approved for an uncovered outdoor rink. You could maybe get away with that early of a start time in January or early February, but not this late into the winter. 

 

Sun was in the forecast for awhile - they should've made the call earlier in the week, or even earlier on Saturday. But no, they waited for thousands of people to drive down, walk to the stadium, buy concessions, and wait for ~1/2 an hour in the stadium before they made the call and brought the tarp out. 

 

Even after the postponement, there were multiple delays for ice repair in the same exact place as the OSU game. 

 

Once underway, it was a god game with a very unique and enjoyable atmosphere. A sizeable portion of fans understandably didn't return after the postponement (including many who made the drive from Columbus and PA), but there was still a good crowd that stayed all the way to overtime, some 9 hours after the scheduled start time.

 

• 3rd Highest attended AHL game of all time
• Monsters get the OT win - now 4 points out of a playoff spot 3/4 into the season
• Brett Gallant's 300th game with the Monsters - (after the Love buyout Brett is the last professional athlete playing in Cleveland who has won a championship here)

yea, we left after the postponement 

Mother Nature is unpredictable.  The Guardians will probably have snow for their home opener next month.

A game was delayed due to sunshine? That's a new one to me.

 

April 7th is a high of 51 at the moment. And we're playing, my god, Mariners STILL?  It'll be like Santana is on the Indians again.

Are you saying someone has a forecast for April 7 -- more than one month away? Why??

Accuweather has it up. Don't know if its estimates based on previous years or they have some legit forecasts

 

Brent Larkin claims that a domed stadium is "no longer being considered."  

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2023/03/hold-onto-your-wallets-taxpayers-the-browns-owners-are-about-to-come-knocking-brent-larkin.html

 

He's right. A retractable roof stadium is. 

Probably, a dumb question: A retractable roof is cheaper than a domed stadium?

6 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Probably, a dumb question: A retractable roof is cheaper than a domed stadium?

 

No idea.

14 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Probably, a dumb question: A retractable roof is cheaper than a domed stadium?

Moving components are generally (much) more expensive than non-moving components, so I would assume the opposite, but this isn't my area of expertise either. 

Which is what I assumed, and what I got from the article was the domed stadium is off the table due to the high expense…

so Ken were you saying a new stadium with a retractable roof or renovating FE stadium with a retractable roof. Or is the article just assuming expense was the issue with going for the dome?

48 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Moving components are generally (much) more expensive than non-moving components, so I would assume the opposite, but this isn't my area of expertise either. 

I would concur with your assessment.  Especially in a climate like Cleveland with wind and snow load factors to consider. 

If what he says is true I think essentially maintaining the status quo is a mistake. For that much money ($1 Billion) I’d rather see it moved somewhere else and a “ballpark village” be started. Granted they can do the same on the lake, the FAA restrictions will limit its potential.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

No idea.

Retractable roofs are more expensive, Alot more. The mechanics and tech involved is immense. Simple domed/enclosed stadiums are hundreds of millions cheaper.

Edited March 13, 20232 yr by 646empire

52 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Which is what I assumed, and what I got from the article was the domed stadium is off the table due to the high expense…

so Ken were you saying a new stadium with a retractable roof or renovating FE stadium with a retractable roof. Or is the article just assuming expense was the issue with going for the dome?

 

The people I've spoken to said the Browns want a retractable roof stadium and want renderings of it by the end of the year.

2 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

The people I've spoken to said the Browns want a retractable roof stadium and want renderings of it by the end of the year.

How if at all does this tie end with the $5 million worth of engineering and environmental studies‘s that are supposed to be completed by the end of this year and which were initiated by the interest of the Haslam‘s in spearheading Lakefront renewal?

23 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

The people I've spoken to said the Browns want a retractable roof stadium and want renderings of it by the end of the year.

Wow will be interesting to see the financing. A retractable roof stadium will run 1.5/1.6 Billion minimum.

Edited March 13, 20232 yr by 646empire

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

How if at all does this tie end with the $5 million worth of engineering and environmental studies‘s that are supposed to be completed by the end of this year and which were initiated by the interest of the Haslam‘s in spearheading Lakefront renewal?

 

Lots of land to be developed on the lakefront whether that includes renovating the existing stadium which the Browns hate or building a new stadium which the Browns wants. The public's response will determine which way things go. But if the Browns don't like the public's option, then they leave and someone else will have to develop the lakefront. 

Great.  Let’s start from scratch again with another developer that then won’t get the job done.

I think it will be an enormously hard sell to ask the public to finance another stadium given the team’s record over the past two decades… IF they don't at least get to the playoffs or even the AFC this year.  

And we all know how hard that will be.

2 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Great.  Let’s start from scratch again with another developer that then won’t get the job done.

 

That's one option. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

I think it will be an enormously hard sell to ask the public to finance another stadium given the team’s record over the past two decades… IF they don't at least get to the playoffs or even the AFC this year.  

And we all know how hard that will be.

 

My understanding is that the Browns are going to propose a mostly privately financed stadium. I don't know what that actually means but I suspect that they wil ask thar the sin tax be continued and that there will be some state funding involved.

 

40 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

That's one option. 

 

 

 

My understanding is that the Browns are going to propose a mostly privately financed stadium. I don't know what that actually means but I suspect that they wil ask thar the sin tax be continued and that there will be some state funding involved.

 

I can’t imagine the Haslams mostly privately financing this stadium after the purchase of The Milwaukee Bucks for 3.5 Billion, They are very rich but not that rich. If I had to guess maybe 1/3(400-600 Million) and the rest (Billion dollars) coming from the public? For example The Bills new open air stadium is 1.35 Billion and the public local and state is putting in a whopping 800 million of that cost. That State of Ohio will be very conservative much more than New York State on Stadium funding I’m sure.

 

 

Public Foots Most of the $1.4 Billion for a Stadium. Buffalo Fans Cheer.

Critics have savaged the deal, which would use $850 million in state and local funds. But many in the city say keeping the Bills in Buffalo is good for civic pride.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/16/nyregion/new-buffalo-bills-stadium.html

Edited March 14, 20232 yr by 646empire

18 minutes ago, 646empire said:

I can’t imagine the Haslams mostly privately financing this stadium after the purchase of The Milwaukee Bucks for 3.5 Billion,

They did not spend 3.5 billion on the bucks. They bought a percentage of the bucks, and the purchase price set the valuation of the franchise at 3.5 billion.

1 hour ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

I think it will be an enormously hard sell to ask the public to finance another stadium given the team’s record over the past two decades… IF they don't at least get to the playoffs or even the AFC this year.  

And we all know how hard that will be.

Not sure it matters how far they get they have the best attendance home and away in the nfl and in the top 50% of in terms of revenue. buffalo isn’t even close in either of those either of those stats and they’re getting a 1.4b stadium

32 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

They did not spend 3.5 billion on the bucks. They bought a percentage of the bucks, and the purchase price set the valuation of the franchise at 3.5 billion.

They spent just over 800million

39 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

They did not spend 3.5 billion on the bucks. They bought a percentage of the bucks, and the purchase price set the valuation of the franchise at 3.5 billion.

Ohhhhh gotcha. Just looked it up, they purchased 25% or 850 million still a pretty penny. Add in the Columbus Crew and stadium and your at a Billion plus.

12 hours ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Not sure it matters how far they get they have the best attendance home and away in the nfl and in the top 50% of in terms of revenue. buffalo isn’t even close in either of those either of those stats and they’re getting a 1.4b stadium

 

it helps the bills when the state governor is a buffalonian. 

1 hour ago, mrnyc said:

 

it helps the bills when the state governor is a buffalonian. 

I had to re-read that, as my lazy skimming mind interpreted it as "our state governor is a buffoon."

Crains is reporting that the Haslams will renovate rather than replace First Energy Stadium.  No dome as part of the renovation.  Asserting this will be part and parcel of developing the lakefront.  Renovations are 4-5 years away (starting not completion).  Talking to reporters at NFL meetings.

10 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Crains is reporting that the Haslams will renovate rather than replace First Energy Stadium.  No dome as part of the renovation.  Asserting this will be part and parcel of developing the lakefront.  Renovations are 4-5 years away (starting not completion).  Talking to reporters at NFL meetings.

I wonder if there is pressure from the state or county on renovation given that 1) Progressive has undergone a number of renovations in its history, and 2) They are doing the renovation route in Cincinnati at Paycor rather than replacement. 

14 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Crains is reporting that the Haslams will renovate rather than replace First Energy Stadium.  No dome as part of the renovation.  Asserting this will be part and parcel of developing the lakefront.  Renovations are 4-5 years away (starting not completion).  Talking to reporters at NFL meetings.

Here’s the key quote. 
 

"Cleveland would benefit tremendously from the development of the waterfront," Jimmy Haslam said on Monday, March 27. "Having the stadium down there seems to be in everybody's best interest. So we're committed to redoing the stadium. In all likelihood, it's not going to have a dome, but it'll be a substantial remodel of the existing facility and we're probably three, four, five years away from that happening."

 

3 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I wonder if there is pressure from the state or county on renovation given that 1) Progressive has undergone a number of renovations in its history, and 2) They are doing the renovation route in Cincinnati at Paycor rather than replacement. 

Perhaps.  I also think the Deshaun Watson decision has sent the view of the Browns from neutral to negative by many of the nonsports fans in Cleveland which in turn may have made an expensive new stadium unlikely to garner majority support.

^I would argue that the Browns record since 1999 is much more of a reason by non-sports fans in Cleveland to garner support for the stadium.  The Deshaun Watson decision may be negative now but depends completely on if the team produces winning records and playoff runs in the future.  That decision was made within the last year, versus 20 years of sadness and misery, with plenty of 4-12, 5-11 seasons along with the 1-15, and the second 0-16 season in NFL history mixed in.

Edited March 28, 20232 yr by Oldmanladyluck

This makes zero sense to me.  We are told repeatedly that Cleveland Browns Stadium construction was slapdash at best and that the damn thing is falling apart. What is the point of spending 300+ million, on top of the 140+ million, to still not have an up to date stadium?

I take it the 2013 rennovations didn't cut it then. $120 million doesn't get you much these days.

 

As for additional renovations, if Jimmy and Dee can afford the Bucks, then I'm sure they can find ways of financing stadium improvements beyond hiring an unapologetic sexual predator.

 

 

1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

I wonder if there is pressure from the state or county on renovation given that 1) Progressive has undergone a number of renovations in its history, and 2) They are doing the renovation route in Cincinnati at Paycor rather than replacement. 

Not surprised by this news. I was a little shocked a few weeks ago when reports talked about a brand new retractable roof stadium for the browns. The price tag is so enormous 1.6 Billion plus I just couldn’t see how the financing would work without a massive public subsidy which is just not in the cards especially on the State level. 

1 hour ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

This makes zero sense to me.  We are told repeatedly that Cleveland Browns Stadium construction was slapdash at best and that the damn thing is falling apart. What is the point of spending 300+ million, on top of the 140+ million, to still not have an up to date stadium?

Have the browns done a true top down inspection on the stadium like the bengals have done? If they can keep the renovation in the 600-800 million range and get another 20 years or so out of it I think it’s worth saving the extra Billion (Cincinnati’ is looking at about 700 Million for structural and entertainment upgrades and repairs). Below talks about Cincinnati’s report from LA based Gensler. Cleveland needs to do the same to see if the structure is worth even saving first. Nashville did one and theirs said Nissan Stadium wasn’t worth renovating which is why they are about to break ground on a new venue.

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/i-team/bengals-fans-must-wait-til-2023-to-see-paycor-stadium-upgrade-plan-and-what-it-may-cost-taxpayers?_amp=true

Edited March 28, 20232 yr by 646empire

I thought there were other issues with FES, such as the concourses being too small. I doubt they will be able to do anything about that.

1 hour ago, 646empire said:

Have the browns done a true top down inspection on the stadium like the bengals have done? If they can keep the renovation in the 600-800 million range and get another 20 years or so out of it I think it’s worth saving the extra Billion (Cincinnati’ is looking at about 700 Million for structural and entertainment upgrades and repairs). Below talks about Cincinnati’s report from LA based Gensler. Cleveland needs to do the same to see if the structure is worth even saving first. Nashville did one and theirs said Nissan Stadium wasn’t worth renovating which is why they are about to break ground on a new venue.

 

https://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/i-team/bengals-fans-must-wait-til-2023-to-see-paycor-stadium-upgrade-plan-and-what-it-may-cost-taxpayers?_amp=true

Nashville also was able to lock their stadium financing in place before interest rates went haywire. Now, bonds are much more expensive to issue and it may not make the same economic sense to issue them today as it did a year or two ago.

Haslams planning to renovate, not replace, FirstEnergy Stadium

 

 

When it comes to FirstEnergy Stadium, Cleveland Browns owners Jimmy and Dee Haslam said they're looking for a makeover, not a do-over.

Speaking to local reporters at the NFL owners meetings in Phoenix, the Haslams said the Browns are leaning toward renovating the stadium as part of a larger plan to develop the lakefront. The stadium's 30-year lease expires at the end of 2028 and there have been reports that the Haslams preferred replacing FirstEnergy with a domed stadium further inland.

"Cleveland would benefit tremendously from the development of the waterfront," Jimmy Haslam said on Monday, March 27. "Having the stadium down there seems to be in everybody's best interest. So we're committed to redoing the stadium. In all likelihood, it's not going to have a dome, but it'll be a substantial remodel of the existing facility and we're probably three, four, five years away from that happening."

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/sports-business/browns-owner-jimmy-haslam-aims-renovate-firstenergy-stadium

Maybe the city threatened taking away his development rights for the lakefront if he moved? Not sure how that works, but sure seems like this is a big about-face for someone who commissioned a study to prove how terrible the current stadium is/justify a new build.

I think the Mayor and the city want a new stadium with a dome. Haslams do too but aren't willing to pay what city/county officials want them to. So Haslam is making these comments via the media as a coy way of threatening to just renovate the stadium no one wants to maybe get more leverage in talks with the city.

 

No way in hell is Haslam seeing all these teams on the forefront with their beautiful new stadiums (Vegas, LA, Vikings and now Buffalo) and doesn't want in on that action. He is a billionaire and they all have egos. He absolutely wants a shiny new jewel.

1 hour ago, GREGinPARMA said:

I think the Mayor and the city want a new stadium with a dome. Haslams do too but aren't willing to pay what city/county officials want them to. So Haslam is making these comments via the media as a coy way of threatening to just renovate the stadium no one wants to maybe get more leverage in talks with the city.

 

No way in hell is Haslam seeing all these teams on the forefront with their beautiful new stadiums (Vegas, LA, Vikings and now Buffalo) and doesn't want in on that action. He is a billionaire and they all have egos. He absolutely wants a shiny new jewel.

Ummm I don’t know if it makes sense to put out renovation intentions if in fact your true aim is actually for a brand new building. I think that would be counter productive from a PR standpoint. Also every owner wants a brand new stadium every 20 or so years but economics and politics are what they are in each home market. Also the general mood that I’m getting from most mid size cities is the public would prefer for these stadiums lives to be extended as much as possible unless the building is just absolute trash like the situation in buffalo or the old place in Minneapolis.

Edited March 28, 20232 yr by 646empire

48 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Ummm I don’t know if it makes sense to put out renovation intentions if in fact your true aim is actually for a brand new building. I think that would be counter productive from a PR standpoint. Also every owner wants a brand new stadium every 20 or so years but economics and politics are what they are in each home market. Also the general mood that I’m getting from most mid size cities is the public would prefer for these stadiums lives to be extended as much as possible unless the building is just absolute trash like the situation in buffalo or the old place in Minneapolis.

Then why actively look at multiple sites for a new stadium? And even try buying multiple parcels immediately east of downtown, which was rejected by the mayor?

22 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

Then why actively look at multiple sites for a new stadium? And even try buying multiple parcels immediately east of downtown, which was rejected by the mayor?

Land Banking is a real pastime for the wealthy and I hate it. They buy all kinds of land with no real plan for developing it at least not anytime soon. Owners will “Actively” look at options all the time but it doesn’t mean a new venue is going to be the option they roll with for various reasons. My point is for all we know they could be in the early stages of banking land for a new stadium in the late 2030s or early 2040s after the lease extension on a renovated stadium is coming to a end. Assembling land for projects way out in the future is very common. Considering the conflicting reports over the past few weeks both can be true, the browns may want a new stadium but for reasons maybe financial or other have settled on another renovation instead that can get them into the 2030s, we simply don’t know at least not yet.

Edited March 29, 20232 yr by 646empire

Land Banking is a real pastime for the wealthy and I hate it. They buy all kinds of land with no real plan for developing it at least not anytime soon. Owners will “Actively” look at options all the time but it doesn’t mean a new venue is going to be the option they roll with for various reasons. My point is for all we know they could be in the early stages of banking land for a new stadium in the late 2030s or early 2040s after the lease extension on a renovated stadium is coming to a end. Assembling land for projects way out in the future is very common. Considering the conflicting reports over the past few weeks both can be true, the browns may want a new stadium but for reasons maybe financial or other have settled on another renovation instead that can get them into the 2030s, we simply don’t know at least not yet.

Fair points and well said. I’m just being selfish and want a new stadium, I hate that pile of junk we currently have lol better than nothing though I suppose


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

5 minutes ago, Stang10 said:

This is the thread, just a few pages back (Page 101 I think), that Ken posted his article for Haslam's desire to build a new stadium, so this thread was perfectly fine to post on. Seems the Haslam's switched gears pretty quickly on that front unless Ken was given bad information for one reason or another.

 

I'm considering writing another article, including to make a few points I didn't make in my last article.

 

Browns, city want you to rule out FES renovation
By Ken Prendergast / March 30, 2023

 

A COMMENTARY

 

“I stand by my sources.”

 

I write that after this week’s statement from Browns owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam which followed NEOtrans’ most recent article about the Browns’ desire for a new all-purpose stadium for Cleveland. At the National Football League’s (NFL) Annual Meeting, the Haslams said “They remain committed to upgrading the Browns’ stadium — with the primary goal of renovating FirstEnergy Stadium in accordance with the City of Cleveland’s plans to upgrade waterfront area between Lake Erie and downtown.”

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2023/03/30/browns-city-want-you-to-rule-out-fes-renovation/