January 22, 20241 yr 16 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: I wonder if the NFL could end the regular season a little earlier so the playoffs can occur before the weather gets really bad? Maybe start the season earlier. Maybe eliminate the bye week. i think you know the answer to that ! $$$$$$$$$$$$
January 22, 20241 yr 21 hours ago, surfohio said: is anyone watching the Lions vs. Bucs taking note of how pathetically dark and dreary it looks inside Ford Field? It makes me wonder if they’re using discounted fluorescent lighting. I would hate to see the Browns forced indoors in a fixed roof stadium especially when half the season the weather is pretty great. Actually, what I noticed was that I saw trainers on the sidelines in shorts and fans looking comfortable without heavy coats. I sat through the cold at the Right-Red 88 game and other late season games and playoffs where my feet went numb. At my age, I would certainly prefer comfort as a fan.
January 22, 20241 yr I think asking taxpayers to pay for a dome is too much. We'll never get ROI on that. I am curious to see what the state chips in for this effort whenever there is some movement, but right now Cleveland and Cuyahoga County are potentially paying most of the bill. Only 30% of county residents attend home games and far less Cleveland residents. I believe it's worth it to make sure the Browns stay in Cleveland, but there have to be limits. I saw the Bills estimated a dome being at least $400M more in cost. That's $100M more than the CHEERS project. What could we do with that money for education or health services? The idea that we'll lure more events to use the building is highly unlikely. Taylor Swift performed in many open-air stadiums during her recent tour, and from what I read her not coming to Cleveland had nothing to do with the building itself.
January 22, 20241 yr 9 minutes ago, coneflower said: I am curious to see what the state chips in for this effort whenever there is some movement, but right now Cleveland and Cuyahoga County are potentially paying most of the bill. This. From the new bills stadium wiki page- an interesting turn, the stadium will be owned by the state and not the county. Imagine how different these talks would be if the state ponied up instead of the city/county. From Wiki: New York State will contribute $600 million in funding with Erie County contributing $250 million, the Bills contributing $350 million, and the National Football League via a G-4 loan $200 million. In addition the Bills signed a 30-year lease, with a buyout option after 15 years.[30] The stadium would be owned by New York State, a change from the current stadium which is owned by Erie County. Of that $600 million funding, $418 million will come from funds seized from the Seneca Nation of New York for funds overdue as part of the compact to operate the Seneca Niagara Casino, Seneca Allegany Casino and Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino.[31] The state will also contribute $100 million over a 15-year period for maintenance and $6 million per year over the course of the lease for capital improvements, both figures to be adjusted for inflation according to the Consumer Price Index.[31] It'd be a different world if Ohio picked up the majority of the bill instead of cash strapped Cleveland/Cuyahoga. Edited January 22, 20241 yr by GISguy
January 22, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, TMart said: Actually, what I noticed was that I saw trainers on the sidelines in shorts and fans looking comfortable without heavy coats. I sat through the cold at the Right-Red 88 game and other late season games and playoffs where my feet went numb. At my age, I would certainly prefer comfort as a fan. As long as we can talk about preference, wouldn't you also prefer a roof that could open when it's inevitably 70 deg at kickoff? That's my preference. If the only option is dome or open air my strong preference is for open air UNLESS we can show it makes financial sense to do otherwise. And again, there's no discernible pressure from the Convention Center folks to do so. The open air stadium doesn't at all seem to hurt attendance in cities like GB, Pitt, Cincy, Buffalo or Cleveland. Maybe that changes in the future, but I don't think it will.
January 22, 20241 yr If it not financially feasible to build a stadium with a retractable roof, how about building an open air stadium designed to accommodate a retractable roof in the future?
January 22, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, coneflower said: I think asking taxpayers to pay for a dome is too much. We'll never get ROI on that. I am curious to see what the state chips in for this effort whenever there is some movement, but right now Cleveland and Cuyahoga County are potentially paying most of the bill. Only 30% of county residents attend home games and far less Cleveland residents. I believe it's worth it to make sure the Browns stay in Cleveland, but there have to be limits. I saw the Bills estimated a dome being at least $400M more in cost. That's $100M more than the CHEERS project. What could we do with that money for education or health services? The idea that we'll lure more events to use the building is highly unlikely. Taylor Swift performed in many open-air stadiums during her recent tour, and from what I read her not coming to Cleveland had nothing to do with the building itself. Everyone only thinks of concerts as additional events that could take place in a dome/retractable roof stadium but there is much more than that. You could get concerts year round (not just May - Aug/Sept), Monster Jam (I know RMFH has events but these are tiny compared to a full show), SuperCross (indoor motorcross circuit), Super Bowl, Men's Final 4, NFL Draft, NFL Combine (I know this is in Indy right now but I have a feeling the NFL will starting moving this like they do with the draft, it is such a huge media event these days), etc. Depending how much money the city, county and state kicks in to help build a new stadium I think the ROI is probably closer than what people expect. Plus if a new stadium is built off the lakefront, instead of a massive renovation of a poorly built stadium, then the ROI should include any additional sales, buildings, and sales and income tax that would be generated from unlocking the most valuable land within the city.
January 22, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, coneflower said: I think asking taxpayers to pay for a dome is too much. We'll never get ROI on that. I am curious to see what the state chips in for this effort whenever there is some movement, but right now Cleveland and Cuyahoga County are potentially paying most of the bill. Only 30% of county residents attend home games and far less Cleveland residents. I believe it's worth it to make sure the Browns stay in Cleveland, but there have to be limits. I saw the Bills estimated a dome being at least $400M more in cost. That's $100M more than the CHEERS project. What could we do with that money for education or health services? The idea that we'll lure more events to use the building is highly unlikely. Taylor Swift performed in many open-air stadiums during her recent tour, and from what I read her not coming to Cleveland had nothing to do with the building itself. Not to nitpick, but the number is that 30% of Browns games attendees live in Cuyahoga county, not that 30% of the county attends the games. 30% of the county is 375,000 people and the stadium fits 67,400~. Total home attendance was 610,295 in 2023 according to ESPN. Which I say only to agree with your point - the city of Cleveland and the county foot the bill for a very small percentage of the population who use the space. https://www.clevescene.com/news/only-30-of-fans-at-browns-home-games-live-in-cuayhoga-county-data-shows-42158860 It’s hard to draw a lot of conclusions without seeing the data itself, which Scene doesn’t link to. For example, are attendees primarily from Lake, Summit, and Lorain counties? Do out of state visitors make up a big chunk? But it doesn’t inspire confidence that the city’s taxpayers should pay for much of this. Going back to the ESPN attendance data, we have 610,295 people in 2023. 15% of them live in Cleveland. That means over the course of the season only 91,544 people who live in Cleveland go - and these aren’t individual visits, the number of unique visitors is definitely much smaller because one person could go to all the home games and get counted repeatedly.
January 22, 20241 yr 35 minutes ago, Stang10 said: Depending how much money the city, county and state kicks in to help build a new stadium I think the ROI is probably closer than what people expect. I hear your perspective but taking Lucas Oil Stadium as an example, in 2024 they have roughly one non-NFL event a month. Is that worth $400M more? I think folks can disagree in good faith. To me it's not worth it.
January 22, 20241 yr I'm sure I'm oversimplifying, but it is my understanding that the current stadium was built very poorly in a location that was readily available. I.e. how quickly and cheaply can we build a stadium on land we already have in order to get a team as quickly as possible. The result seems to have been very little if any spin off development and a stadium that no one really seems to love, and one that needs to be replaced after only 30 years. Very sad. My ONLY hope for the stadium now is that it's something the City can and will build around. Something that's going to last for awhile, and create spin off development. So in 30 years the City can continue adding to a growing district instead of starting from square one again. After that, i don't really care if it's new or renovated, domed or open air, or if it's on the lake or somewhere else (although I would be a little sad if it wasn't in or near downtown).
January 22, 20241 yr Roof aside, does anyone know the extent of how poor the condition of the stadium is? All I've ever heard (anecdotally) over the years is that the stadium was a rush job in order for the team to be reactivated by 1999, and that in addition to the visible rust and concrete deterioration, that the "guts" of the building's infrastructure are in rough shape as well. I'm genuinely curious about if the studies they have been doing behind the scenes will reflect 1. the extent of the renovations needed for both the aesthetics and the infrastructure of the stadium, and 2. if the aesthetic renovations are worth doing if the condition of the stadium infrastructure is poor.
January 22, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, coneflower said: The idea that we'll lure more events to use the building is highly unlikely. Taylor Swift performed in many open-air stadiums during her recent tour, and from what I read her not coming to Cleveland had nothing to do with the building itself. Until ALL stadiums have domes you won't see many winter stadium shows. The exception would be a Metallica at Ford Field in Detroit, but they only do like 30 shows spaced out over a year, and that is rare. Most artists can't afford this due to the economy of scale of touring multiple dates in a row.
January 23, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, coneflower said: hear your perspective but taking Lucas Oil Stadium as an example, in 2024 they have roughly one non-NFL event a month. Is that worth $400M more? I think folks can disagree in good faith. To me it's not worth it. This is misleading and false data, and contributes to the reason some see an enclosed stadium as an expense and not an investment. In fact Lucas Oil Stadium is a very busy place according to Inside Indiana Business: Lucas Oil Stadium hosts more than 200 events per year, The schedule is so busy it poses a challenge when seeking open dates for concerts. The Colts have top priority in the building, People can directly access the convention center via tunnesl without stepping outside And yes, Taylor will be playing there again The stadium is scheduling conventions more than a decade into the future So with 10-11 Colts games per year there are actually nearly16 non-NFL events per month at Lucas Oil Stadium, not "roughly one." I'd love to see CLE build a competitive retractable-roof stadium and snatch some of the revenues and jobs that come with those events.
January 23, 20241 yr 33 minutes ago, jbdad2 said: This is misleading and false data, and contributes to the reason some see an enclosed stadium as an expense and not an investment. In fact Lucas Oil Stadium is a very busy place according to Inside Indiana Business: Lucas Oil Stadium hosts more than 200 events per year, The schedule is so busy it poses a challenge when seeking open dates for concerts. The Colts have top priority in the building, People can directly access the convention center via tunnesl without stepping outside And yes, Taylor will be playing there again The stadium is scheduling conventions more than a decade into the future So with 10-11 Colts games per year there are actually nearly16 non-NFL events per month at Lucas Oil Stadium, not "roughly one." I'd love to see CLE build a competitive retractable-roof stadium and snatch some of the revenues and jobs that come with those events. Google turns up this link which I'm guessing where you copied that from: https://www.insideindianabusiness.com/articles/swift-victory-how-lucas-oil-stadium-became-a-stop-on-historys-biggest-tour#:~:text=Lucas Oil Stadium hosts more,3%2C 2024. It doesn't mention the nature of the events. How many of those are weddings, corporate events, or other gatherings better served somewhere other than a $2 billion dollar stadium.
January 23, 20241 yr I am going off the events webpage for the stadium where you can buy tickets. Looking at US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis for another data point, they have 10 events scheduled through the end of August, 5 of which are spring/summer concert tours, similar to the Beyoncé and T.Swift tours last year. Just checking Kenny Chesney and Morgan Wallens’ schedules, many of their other dates are in open stadiums. To be fair, Cleveland Browns stadium only has 1 event listed (the Stones) which is pretty sad. I don’t know enough about how these events pick locations to understand why that is but the building itself doesn’t seem like a strong reason. But I’m open to other perspectives! edit: actually going slightly deeper on Google Lucas Oil Stadium seems to be co-located/marketed with Indiana Convention Center. That seems a little different of a situation from us. Edited January 23, 20241 yr by coneflower
January 23, 20241 yr 9 hours ago, coneflower said: I am going off the events webpage for the stadium where you can buy tickets. Looking at US Bank Stadium in Minneapolis for another data point, they have 10 events scheduled through the end of August, 5 of which are spring/summer concert tours, similar to the Beyoncé and T.Swift tours last year. Just checking Kenny Chesney and Morgan Wallens’ schedules, many of their other dates are in open stadiums. To be fair, Cleveland Browns stadium only has 1 event listed (the Stones) which is pretty sad. I don’t know enough about how these events pick locations to understand why that is but the building itself doesn’t seem like a strong reason. But I’m open to other perspectives! edit: actually going slightly deeper on Google Lucas Oil Stadium seems to be co-located/marketed with Indiana Convention Center. That seems a little different of a situation from us. I think co-marketing with the convention center would be essential if we're going to go through the effort to dome the stadium in the current location. The proposed land bridge would hopefully have an enclosed portion of the walkway and the distance from the existing convention center to Browns Stadium would be about a quarter mile. That distance is probably prohibitive for most shows, but I think it would be OK for really big ones, and having the ability to attract much larger conventions would definitely be a positive.
January 23, 20241 yr 13 hours ago, jbdad2 said: This is misleading and false data, and contributes to the reason some see an enclosed stadium as an expense and not an investment. In fact Lucas Oil Stadium is a very busy place according to Inside Indiana Business: Lucas Oil Stadium hosts more than 200 events per year, The schedule is so busy it poses a challenge when seeking open dates for concerts. The Colts have top priority in the building, People can directly access the convention center via tunnesl without stepping outside And yes, Taylor will be playing there again The stadium is scheduling conventions more than a decade into the future So with 10-11 Colts games per year there are actually nearly16 non-NFL events per month at Lucas Oil Stadium, not "roughly one." I'd love to see CLE build a competitive retractable-roof stadium and snatch some of the revenues and jobs that come with those events. How many of these events use the full stadium, though? There are plenty of events at the current browns stadium, but they're tiny, much like I'm sure a lot of these "200 events per year" are. For instance here's some of the spaces that Lucas Stadium markets (https://www.lucasoilstadium.com/host-an-event/event-space-locations/), compare that to the Browns: https://clevelandbrownsstadium.com/host-an-event/ and unless you're using the field, they're relatively the same. Also, unlike Ohio with 3+ convention centers vying for events, Indianapolis' is branded Indiana Convention Center & Lucas Oil Stadium, aka massive investment and commitments from the state which, frankly I doubt we'll get. RE:concerts - we're sandwiched between Detroit, Pittsburgh, and (a stretch, but also) Toronto, three powerhouses for major tours (with more favorable economics/disposable income than NEO - aka TSwift didn't avoid Cleveland because of our stadium...). Also worth considering: major promoters/tours won't allow an artist to play within x miles/hours from a previous date, it's something to keep in mind with Detroit pretty much next door. We're already redoing/expanding the Medical Mart to Convention Center space and (it's not great), but still have the IX Center, do you really think a handful of events are worth $300-500M from already struggling Cleveland and Cuyahoga residents? It'd be different if it was a massive investment from the state, but we live in Ohio. Edited January 23, 20241 yr by GISguy
January 23, 20241 yr 18 hours ago, TMart said: Actually, what I noticed was that I saw trainers on the sidelines in shorts and fans looking comfortable without heavy coats. I sat through the cold at the Right-Red 88 game and other late season games and playoffs where my feet went numb. At my age, I would certainly prefer comfort as a fan. I was at the 50 front row when the evil event occurred, in a hoodie and Browns T shirt, though I may have been using different anti-freeze. I also had an 18 year old liver. Still, I favor the open air stadium because of the natural turf and the potential home field advantages. Rain as well as s***. When I was playing I much preferred the latter to the former when it was cold.
January 23, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, E Rocc said: Rain as well as s***. Careful with the self censoring. We don't want people to get the wrong idea about what falls from the sky in our fair city!
January 24, 20241 yr https://fox8.com/news/major-concert-coming-to-cleveland-browns-stadium/amp/ Is it par for the course for Bibb and a “representative of the Haslam Sports Group ” to announce a concert?
January 24, 20241 yr Maybe they are reviving the "World Series of Rock" concerts that were held at the old stadium in the 70s.
January 24, 20241 yr On 1/23/2024 at 10:57 AM, X said: Careful with the self censoring. We don't want people to get the wrong idea about what falls from the sky in our fair city! Or worse, the right one.
January 24, 20241 yr 14 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Maybe they are reviving the "World Series of Rock" concerts that were held at the old stadium in the 70s. The President of the Rock Hall being there suggests that one or more older rock bands is involved. My guess is that AC/DC is involved. There have been rumors. This would be 45 years (!) after they played perhaps the most infamous WSOR show. The Foo Fighters are supposed to tour as well. The Struts, the Foo Fighters, and AC/DC? Edited January 24, 20241 yr by E Rocc
January 24, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, E Rocc said: The President of the Rock Hall being there suggests that one or more older rock bands is involved. My guess is that AC/DC is involved. There have been rumors. This would be 45 years (!) after they played perhaps the most infamous WSOR show. The Foo Fighters are supposed to tour as well. The Struts, the Foo Fighters, and AC/DC? Aerosmith?
January 25, 20241 yr On 1/23/2024 at 6:32 AM, GISguy said: How many of these events use the full stadium, though? There are plenty of events at the current browns stadium, but they're tiny, much like I'm sure a lot of these "200 events per year" are. For instance here's some of the spaces that Lucas Stadium markets (https://www.lucasoilstadium.com/host-an-event/event-space-locations/), compare that to the Browns: https://clevelandbrownsstadium.com/host-an-event/ and unless you're using the field, they're relatively the same. Also, unlike Ohio with 3+ convention centers vying for events, Indianapolis' is branded Indiana Convention Center & Lucas Oil Stadium, aka massive investment and commitments from the state which, frankly I doubt we'll get. I've been making this same argument on here for years. However--the older I get I would appreciate a dome stadium. I was at the Steelers at Buffalo game a few weeks ago and that was brutal. I could stand a roof and 65 degrees. I just don't delude myself that we would get more events because of it.
January 25, 20241 yr Put in a dome or roof with a fancy new stadium so long as we get a significant revenue-sharing benefit. Cleveland/Cuyahoga County get paid back in about 20 or 30 years, Jimmy and Dee get their subsidized SoFi downtown. Win win. It's not hard Jimmy. Beats going to prison or hiring a serial sexual predator. Edited January 25, 20241 yr by TBideon
January 25, 20241 yr On 1/22/2024 at 7:31 PM, jbdad2 said: This is misleading and false data, and contributes to the reason some see an enclosed stadium as an expense and not an investment. In fact Lucas Oil Stadium is a very busy place according to Inside Indiana Business: Lucas Oil Stadium hosts more than 200 events per year, The schedule is so busy it poses a challenge when seeking open dates for concerts. The Colts have top priority in the building, People can directly access the convention center via tunnesl without stepping outside And yes, Taylor will be playing there again The stadium is scheduling conventions more than a decade into the future So with 10-11 Colts games per year there are actually nearly16 non-NFL events per month at Lucas Oil Stadium, not "roughly one." I'd love to see CLE build a competitive retractable-roof stadium and snatch some of the revenues and jobs that come with those events. How do they define an event? No way they have even 80% of the stadium occupied 200 days of the year.
January 25, 20241 yr This February there are two Monster Jams and two NBA All-Star events, in March there's one event (whatever Monster Energy AMA Super Cross is), in April two nights with Morgan Wallen and other people I don't know, In May one night with George Strait and other people I don't know, June is pretty busy with 18 US Team Swimming trials, nothing in July, four Drum Corps events in August, nothing in September, Pink and Sheryl Crow in October, some tight end's girlfriend singing for three nights in November, and the Big 10 Championship in December. I'm guessing the remaining are private and corporate "events" that take up a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the stadium. Hurray, we got 30 people to attend a party. That counts as one! Edited January 25, 20241 yr by TBideon
January 25, 20241 yr 10 hours ago, Henke said: How do they define an event? No way they have even 80% of the stadium occupied 200 days of the year. They typically include weddings, bar mitzvahs etc that are held in the stadium dining spaces. CBS does do a decent amount of business with this as well, but probably not as much as a state capital with an attached convention center.
January 25, 20241 yr 36 minutes ago, GISguy said: Don't worry a $1.5-2B dome will certainly get us better acts! lol We will get Taylor Swift either way. Just need a home game against the Chiefs (and Kelce not to break up with her). 😜
January 25, 20241 yr About as likely as the Medical Mart, or whatever it's called now, starts landing, well, anything.
January 26, 20241 yr 6 hours ago, TBideon said: About as likely as the Medical Mart, or whatever it's called now, starts landing, well, anything. Try to keep up on what's going on there. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 27, 20241 yr Fixed roof stadium = artificial turf. I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet, that playing on turf apparently causes more injuries: In summary, they found that there are "a higher rate of foot and ankle injuries on artificial turf compared with natural grass on both old- and new-generation turf," and that "elite-level football athletes" were more predisposed to knee injuries on synthetic turf. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38624943/inside-nfl-turf-debate-injuries-safety-measures-more
January 27, 20241 yr That’s not always true, real grass is possible in domed stadiums Raiders as one example
January 27, 20241 yr 9 hours ago, BoomerangCleRes said: That’s not always true, real grass is possible in domed stadiums Raiders as one example With a roll-in turf field like in Vegas or Glendale, you need lots of extra space on site. So the lakefront would not be ideal for this method. I also wonder if it would be possible in our climate. I suppose the field "tray" would have to be heated, other wise you'd be rolling in a a dead, frozen field.
January 27, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Cleburger said: With a roll-in turf field like in Vegas or Glendale, you need lots of extra space on site. So the lakefront would not be ideal for this method. I also wonder if it would be possible in our climate. I suppose the field "tray" would have to be heated, other wise you'd be rolling in a a dead, frozen field. Not saying it’s in the budget but soccer have already figured out underground storage so it’s possible.
January 28, 20241 yr On 1/27/2024 at 8:15 AM, Cleburger said: With a roll-in turf field like in Vegas or Glendale, you need lots of extra space on site. So the lakefront would not be ideal for this method. I also wonder if it would be possible in our climate. I suppose the field "tray" would have to be heated, other wise you'd be rolling in a a dead, frozen field. The grass survives now exposed in this climate, just like everyone else's grass. Why would it not survive if it was occasionally moved outside?
January 28, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said: The grass survives now exposed in this climate, just like everyone else's grass. Why would it not survive if it was occasionally moved outside? True--but it currently doesn't move in and out from two different climates in the matter of minutes.
February 5, 20241 yr It's a shame we get way too much snow for a roof like this one in Frankfurt. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzjUyLkO_Kq/?igsh=bnFrOG5rMzYwY3Nz
February 7, 20241 yr 😮 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 7, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, GREGinPARMA said: @KJPis a bomb incoming? The new dome stadium is going to be built in Ashtabula, in the shape of a covered bridge.
February 7, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, zbaris87 said: Its definitely an incoming 💣, that's for sure... A good bomb or bad bomb? Also, when will the bomb hit?
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