February 7, 20241 yr 11 minutes ago, marty15 said: The new dome stadium is going to be built in Ashtabula, in the shape of a covered bridge. In that case, I might have to move back to Conneaut.
February 7, 20241 yr 28 minutes ago, TMart said: In that case, I might have to move back to Conneaut. Former Cabrini Knight here.
February 7, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, WindyBuckeye said: This may be related to the bomb. I really like Morgan Trau's reporting normally but including those two random residents critiquing the plan before it's public distracts from what exactly is happening.
February 7, 20241 yr Wasn't funding for the bridge/lakefront proposed in past legislation and then it was deleted? I don't get too excited about such things unless the bill actually passes, especially when it comes to the the legislature giving anything to Cleveland.
February 7, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, coneflower said: I really like Morgan Trau's reporting normally but including those two random residents critiquing the plan before it's public distracts from what exactly is happening. Also confused by this quote and question its relevancy… “It's way more convenient to Uber or drive,” even if you Uber or drive the bridge can act as the last .25 mile walk from your car or get dropped off by an Uber at the malls
February 7, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Wasn't funding for the bridge/lakefront proposed in past legislation and then it was deleted? I don't get too excited about such things unless the bill actually passes, especially when it comes to the the legislature giving anything to Cleveland. Yes and it was 60mil then!
February 7, 20241 yr 10 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said: Also confused by this quote and question its relevancy… “It's way more convenient to Uber or drive,” even if you Uber or drive the bridge can act as the last .25 mile walk from your car or get dropped off by an Uber at the malls Yeah the added commentary was weird. You can't Uber/Lyft to the stadium anyway because of geofencing. The closest you can get from the south is Lakeside. The land bridge would make a third entry/exit point to stadium area.
February 7, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, TMart said: In that case, I might have to move back to Conneaut. Read this as Connecticut and was about to say you're already here!!
February 8, 20241 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, KJP said: should i stay up and wait or is it going up in the morning? unprecedented late night bomb. don't know what to do. Edited February 8, 20241 yr by nokoeeee
February 8, 20241 yr Morning. Just letting the night owls know. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 20241 yr Browns owners buying 176 acres in Brook Park By Ken Prendergast / February 8, 2024 The owners of the Cleveland Browns football team have reportedly reached a purchase agreement to acquire a large piece of land in the Cleveland suburb of Brook Park, leading to speculation that the Browns could leave the city of Cleveland for the second time in the team’s 78-year history. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/02/08/browns-owners-buying-176-acres-in-brook-park/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 20241 yr Fantastic reporting as always, Ken. Thank you for your work on this and providing all of the different perspectives regarding this. This news definitely comes with mixed-emotions. On an infrastructure point, this location makes sense, and having the airport right there would help with more year-round use of things like parking garages and (possible) hotels outside of game and concert days. Can definitely see them being mutually beneficial. Leaving the city itself though is still a tough pill to swallow, even with its few uses throughout the year and prime location. Will need to let this one marinate for awhile, especially if it's looking more like a distinct possibility.
February 8, 20241 yr This is good news for the city of Cleveland. The city's better off with that lakefront land as a 24/7 mixed use neighborhood than a giant structure used 10 days a year.
February 8, 20241 yr Pros: Convenient for SOME suburbanites to get to the stadium. Convenient for people travelling into town for the game from the airport. Close to the practice facility & offices. you can use the land downtown to better connect to the lake (assuming it would actually get done and not just be an idea). Easiest way to get a dome. Cons: This sucks for downtown businesses on Sundays during the season. That location is ugly af. Would be super embarrassing to see aerial shots during broadcasts. I really don't want a nice glass stadium in a sea of parking.
February 8, 20241 yr This location could feature a new integrated Red Line station AND new Cuyahoga West / airport station for Amtrak 3C+D and westbound trains. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
February 8, 20241 yr 9 minutes ago, rollercoasterjoe said: This news definitely comes with mixed-emotions…Will need to let this one marinate for awhile Agree 100%. I’m like… My hovercraft is full of eels
February 8, 20241 yr My issue with this is it seems pretty plausible the current stadium site will sit unused like RFK in DC.
February 8, 20241 yr 4 minutes ago, coneflower said: My issue with this is it seems pretty plausible the current stadium site will sit unused like RFK in DC. Aside from the flyover shots that would suck, this is exactly my concern. I think this is a pressure tactic but if not, it's a nightmare if it actually comes true. Although potential options that exist without it are interesting, the likely scenario is an unused decrepit stadium taking up space for a decade or more. Edited February 8, 20241 yr by downtownjoe
February 8, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, coneflower said: My issue with this is it seems pretty plausible the current stadium site will sit unused like RFK in DC. If the lakefront site were to remain unused that would be a terrible outcome, but that's something local policy makers can control. The comparison to DC doesn't really hold up because the RFK land is owned by the federal government and by law has to be used for an athletic facility or recreation. Local government can't redevelop it however they choose. But most likely it'll end up being the site of a new stadium in a few years.
February 8, 20241 yr If this is purely due to financing, I’m having a hard time seeing what Brook Park could be bringing to the table that Cleveland isn’t.
February 8, 20241 yr When thinking about these kinds of projects, I like to imagine if the locations were reversed. If the stadium were right now in the Brook Park location, right by the airport, with direct redline access and Haslam announced a desire to move the stadium to the lakefront, how would we feel about that? I think I'd have mixed feelings about that move just like I have mixed feelings about moving from the lakefront to Brook Park. All that aside, this is a very sensible location in many ways. Right by public transport and right by the airport. Is any other major sports stadium anywhere in the U.S. THAT close to an airport? You could presumably walk from the airport into a domed stadium without ever setting foot outside. That's honestly pretty appealing in the winter. As far as a suburban location goes, I can't think of a better one. EDIT: also timewise, this would work out great with the proposed renovation of Hopkins. Depending on how nice everyone wants to play with each other, we could have lots of cool integrations between the airport, the stadium, and the stadium district that Haslam presumably wants. That could be a really unique and awesome urban center. Edited February 8, 20241 yr by LlamaLawyer
February 8, 20241 yr I'm in favor of getting the stadium off of the lakefront, but I'd really like it to remain in Cleveland, near downtown. It seems like this Brookpark property could be better used for airport landside operations, hotels and such. Edited February 8, 20241 yr by LibertyBlvd
February 8, 20241 yr One thing I’m trying to wrap my head around is what Brook Park could do financially to assist a new build costing over $1 billion when it’s not like they’re in a different county? The county itself has major costs which need to be addressed in the next few years, including the new county courthouse which could cost close to $1 billion. Where is all of the extra money supposed to come from if the Browns move to Berea and the County can’t come up with much to help finance a new build? I could see the City of Cleveland financing a portion of the cost through the Port (and being able to afford paying it back). Is Berea in the same boat if the cost required for a new build from the city totaled, say $200 million? Even at a term of 30 years, that’s a huge chunk of change for Berea to swallow out of their general fund. Edited February 8, 20241 yr by Oldmanladyluck
February 8, 20241 yr My sense is that this is just the Haslams doing their due diligence and showing the City of Cleveland they aren't playing around. I feel this is completely a move to gain leverage in negotiations.
February 8, 20241 yr Just now, GREGinPARMA said: My sense is that this is just the Haslams doing their due diligence and showing the City of Cleveland they aren't playing around. I feel this is completely a move to gain leverage in negotiations. I hope so. I think this great for the lakefront but terrible for downtown businesses and hotels. I can’t imagine the economics being in the cities favor if this were to go through.
February 8, 20241 yr Very silly question, but if this were to happen, would another land swap deal/annexation be a consideration? Or would this essentially be the Browns saying they want out of Cleveland proper? I also find it hard to believe Brook Park would be able to have stronger financial muscles than Cleveland.
February 8, 20241 yr 8 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said: My sense is that this is just the Haslams doing their due diligence and showing the City of Cleveland they aren't playing around. I feel this is completely a move to gain leverage in negotiations. Yeah I’m not buying it either, my sense is this is just leverage for more money in an extensive renovation BUT may be the site of the next* stadium way off in the future.
February 8, 20241 yr This seems like a ripe location for professional women’s soccer stadium that just had earmarked money in Ohio budget.
February 8, 20241 yr The reason why I don't think it is a leverage move is because no one from the city seemed to know about it. There was also no indication from city hall insiders that the mayor and his chiefs were scrambling to respond. Why make a leverage move and not tell anyone? I suppose anything is possible but it just doesn't sound like it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 8, 20241 yr I can see the benifits of moving off the lakefront IF it is then fully developed with a landbridge connecting to a large residential/bar/restaurants/recreational area. That is actually a better use of valuable lakefront. But, that only works for me if the Browns then build a new stadium downtown. The biggest problem with moving out of downtown is it dilutes regional activity. Every dollar spent in Brookpark building hotels and restaurants, every dollar spent in those facilities is money not spent downtown. If we were a growing area the loss would not be significant. Business would not be harmed. But at this point we are not growing and moving activity/dollars to Brookpark will hurt downtown hotels and existing restaurants. It also hurts the Flats. In spite of the billions invested downtown and there have been successes, downtown is still struggling. The jury is still out. If you care about the life of downtown this is not the answer.
February 8, 20241 yr 9 minutes ago, KJP said: The reason why I don't think it is a leverage move is because no one from the city seemed to know about it. There was also no indication from city hall insiders that the mayor and his chiefs were scrambling to respond. Why make a leverage move and not tell anyone? I suppose anything is possible but it just doesn't sound like it. An interesting point although keeping it under wraps is the best form of a shock and awe leverage move. Your point about the city not scrambling to respond may also point to them calling bluff as well. But hard to say either way.
February 8, 20241 yr At this point I don't care. If they move here the positive is that it would free up land to use for other things to create a true neighborhood (Navy Pier like). Also since the businesses couldn't depend on the Browns for business I feel that it will force Cleveland to think outside the box and reignite these underutilized/declining neighborhoods such as the Lakefront and the WHD.Sometimes I do feel like when you know that you have a certain revenue stream coming in (in this case the Browns Games) people start getting comfortable and content and aren't motivated to do much else. Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk
February 8, 20241 yr I think it can work and feel like it is a great site for a dozen or so games per year. Why is this option so terrible for downtown hotels? Is it possible that an out-of-town fan stays downtown and just hops on the Rapid to visit stadium on gameday? Just in a reverse direction to what they might do today? Heck the hotels will clean up on express luggage service charges to the airport. (PS: I really, really dislike the present stadium site, so my bias is showing)
February 8, 20241 yr 13 minutes ago, KJP said: The reason why I don't think it is a leverage move is because no one from the city seemed to know about it. There was also no indication from city hall insiders that the mayor and his chiefs were scrambling to respond. Why make a leverage move and not tell anyone? I suppose anything is possible but it just doesn't sound like it. What do you mean they didn't tell anyone? They leaked it to you.
February 8, 20241 yr 17 minutes ago, KJP said: The reason why I don't think it is a leverage move is because no one from the city seemed to know about it. There was also no indication from city hall insiders that the mayor and his chiefs were scrambling to respond. Why make a leverage move and not tell anyone? I suppose anything is possible but it just doesn't sound like it. I do fear the timeline/logistics. feels like we’re running out time 2027 is only 3 years away, feels like a new location seems to be the only solution otherwise where would they play during “extensive renovations” that would seem like would it would take more than an offseason according to reports of disrepair of the current stadium. and unfortunately this land acquisition may have been one of the few available/possible especially if the city turned down the possibility of lakeside Ave 😢 Edited February 8, 20241 yr by BoomerangCleRes
February 8, 20241 yr 19 minutes ago, KJP said: The reason why I don't think it is a leverage move is because no one from the city seemed to know about it. There was also no indication from city hall insiders that the mayor and his chiefs were scrambling to respond. Why make a leverage move and not tell anyone? I suppose anything is possible but it just doesn't sound like it. Ken, do you care to speculate on the financial rationale for a potential move to Brook Park? If it’s a given that the Haslams are looking for a handout to help build a new stadium, how in the world does the city of Brook Park bring a financial incentive better than what Cleveland could? The only thing I can think of is maybe the Haslams want to control and profit from the spin-off development opportunities like hotels, restaurants, etc. to an extent that they feel they can’t in the lakefront location.
February 8, 20241 yr Well, you can't go wrong with Amber's Cabaret, Secret Gentleman's Club, and the Crazy Horse being minutes away.
February 8, 20241 yr Some insight on this motive and reasoning by the Browns: Haslam has a very close relationship with Jerry Jones and Stan Kroenke. Both of them privately financed stadiums outside of downtown, where they control all of the real estate. SoFi and AT&T Stadium and Dallas have had wild success with no downside being out of downtown. SoFi's proximity is within a mile of LAX and has landed every major event. The Haslam's are simply following the model of both of these owners. The key is controlling all of the real estate, retail, hotel and all other revenue. This is very real and much more lucrative for the Haslams
February 8, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, zbaris87 said: Some insight on this motive and reasoning by the Browns: Haslam has a very close relationship with Jerry Jones and Stan Kroenke. Both of them privately financed stadiums outside of downtown, where they control all of the real estate. SoFi and AT&T Stadium and Dallas have had wild success with no downside being out of downtown. SoFi's proximity is within a mile of LAX and has landed every major event. The Haslam's are simply following the model of both of these owners. The key is controlling all of the real estate, retail, hotel and all other revenue. This is very real and much more lucrative for the Haslams Only thing I challenge here is sofi’s proximity to the airport it doesn’t matter where that was built, it would get the events it would no matter what just because it’s in LA,in the same way MetLife is getting the World Cup final. its proximity to a major city is the only factor.
February 8, 20241 yr Agree with @zbaris87 This is more than a leverage move. Control of the overall site is surely the Haslams goal. They can build a couple new hotels, new restaurant facilities and possibly retail creating a ballpark village of sorts and fully control the design. plus, the stadium will be all- new, not a refurbishment and I believe that is the preference for the Haslams. I also do not understand the finances and can only assume that the Haslams are willing to invest more significantly in this site if they have more room to develop profitable enterprises on their new land in the way they prefer. It’s going to suck to hear those TV announcers saying “From Brookpark Ohio..,,instead of from downtown Cleveland”. I also feel a sense of sadness that the energy of Sundays in the fall that you feel downtown will be lost - and, no doubt, a blow to downtown restaurants and bars - and probably the hotels as well. The opening of the lakefront land is the one potentially “winning” aspect for Cleveland - but that still will require someone to actually come up with a plan and eventually the financing to create the new lakefront district that will have to follow. But how long will that take? Edited February 8, 20241 yr by CleveFan
February 8, 20241 yr I only see a potential move to Brook Park as a negative. Not calling it doom and gloom but I really can’t find an upside for Cleveland proper. •Approximately 1 million fewer visitors to downtown YOY. Downtown hotels, entertainment, restaurants and bars will almost certainly be impacted negatively. •Jock tax not being collected by the city for hundreds of well paid athletes and league + team staffers. •No guarantee the lakefront site flourishes without the Browns there. Unknown if the current plan can even move forward without them.
February 8, 20241 yr I can imagine there being a decent amount of demand for modern hotel rooms at various price points around the airport, far above what is driven by game days. But it’s hard to see that being enough to move the needle toward paying for a ~$2 Billion stadium. So we shall see eventually I guess. As a side note, if this happens at the same time as the airport terminal rebuild, that whole area is going to be a mess for several years. Edited February 8, 20241 yr by JohnSummit Correction
February 8, 20241 yr 11 minutes ago, Sapper Daddy said: I only see a potential move to Brook Park as a negative. Not calling it doom and gloom but I really can’t find an upside for Cleveland proper. •Approximately 1 million fewer visitors to downtown YOY. Downtown hotels, entertainment, restaurants and bars will almost certainly be impacted negatively. •Jock tax not being collected by the city for hundreds of well paid athletes and league + team staffers. •No guarantee the lakefront site flourishes without the Browns there. Unknown if the current plan can even move forward without them. Cleveland Scene & Co. are finally getting what they want, I guess.
February 8, 20241 yr If this becomes reality, how much of this becomes attached to Bibbs resume? I would sure hate losing the Browns on my resume. These past few years of dragging feet and back and forth negotiations at a snails pace and nothing constructive coming out of it after four-five years is ridiculous. Good for the Haslams.
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