1 minute ago, GREGinPARMA said:

If this becomes reality, how much of this becomes attached to Bibbs resume? I would sure hate losing the Browns on my resume. 

These past few years of dragging feet and back and forth negotiations at a snails pace and nothing constructive coming out of it after four-five years is ridiculous.

Good for the Haslams.

Its not good currently, but if the Lakefront and River plans work out, no one would really care.

The thing is this. If he secures funding for the Brookpark stadium and it has a lot of private funding (I doubt Brookpark can swing this on their own), then why couldn't he do the same for Cleveland

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1 hour ago, ryanfrazier said:

This is good news for the city of Cleveland.  The city's better off with that lakefront land as a 24/7 mixed use neighborhood than a giant structure used 10 days a year.  

I strongly disagree. Part of the excitement of attending a Browns game was going to downtown Cleveland. I love the atmosphere and dining/drinking downtown or in The Flats. I imagine thousands of others feel the same. I was really hoping somehow a new stadium could be built north of Playhouse Square, though I think it could have stayed on the lakefront. Good luck with something meaningful happening with that lakefront land. Seems like there are miles of lakefront that could be developed that hasn't been. Hopefully something does happen there. I doubt I will be alive to see it. So now there is less of a reason for me to visit Cleveland or attend Browns games. It's really a shame.  

Browns release statement 

They should have just given them that huge chunk of land on the eastern part of downtown like they wanted. There’s barely anything over there anyways. This is a huge loss for the city.

Don’t we get the final analysis from Bibb for the lakefront this month or next? 

15 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

If this becomes reality, how much of this becomes attached to Bibbs resume? I would sure hate losing the Browns on my resume. 

These past few years of dragging feet and back and forth negotiations at a snails pace and nothing constructive coming out of it after four-five years is ridiculous.

Good for the Haslams.

Personally regardless of the effort he’s putting in for the riverfront I think that the praise is more with bedrock than Bibb himself so I think he’ll go down as another mayor that lost the browns only difference is in exchange we got another bridge 

Not a KJP level scoop, (and no I can't DM details lol) but I just heard someone involved with the organization that there is an alternative use in mind for the Brook Park parcel. The sole purpose of the purchase was not a stadium 

Nothing against Brookpark but I really cannot think of a more depressing (and noisy) spot to put a stadium complex, no matter how elaborate, and no matter how many ancillary attractions are built around it.  

 

Second, how many major "entertainment districts" can NE Ohio support?  Haslam is already planning another one in Berea.  Supposedly the Indians and Cavs want one downtown next to the ballpark and arena, and the Riverview project will encompass another, not to mention all the mini "gathering spots" already in existence in Cuyahoga county (E 4th, the Flats, an expanding W 25th, Pinecrest, Crocker Park- just to name a few) We are not LA with the population and the tourists.  Overbuilding will just result in the failure of one or more.

 

Third, as suggested above, if this is the spot Haslam wants, it is a 2 billion dollar complex that he is going to have to build with his own money.  Brookpark certainly cannot offer anything major and I cannot imagine the county having the capacity or desire to offer much either on the Lakefront and especially not on this site as they would not want to piss off Cleveland officials by supporting it.  Maybe a little (and believe me it will just be a little) from the state of Ohio.  If the Haslams can afford to do it on their own, why are the negotiations with the city so contentious? 

 

It is going to be interesting to see how the city and other media outlets respond and report Ken's scoop.

Edited February 8, 20241 yr by Htsguy

6 minutes ago, JB said:

They should have just given them that huge chunk of land on the eastern part of downtown like they wanted. There’s barely anything over there anyways. This is a huge loss for the city.

This was the absolute perfect location. But the city stood pat with their refusal. Such a shame.

Just now, YABO713 said:

Not a KJP level scoop, (and no I can't DM details lol) but I just heard someone involved with the organization that there is an alternative use in mind for the Brook Park parcel. The sole purpose of the purchase was not a stadium 

So a mega practice facility stretching from berea 

2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Nothing against Brookpark but I really cannot think of a more depressing (and noisy) spot to but a stadium complex, no matter how elaborate, and no matter how many ancillary attractions are built around it.  

 

Second, how many major "entertainment districts" can NE Ohio support?  Haslam is already planning another one in Berea.  Supposedly the Indians and Cavs want one downtown next to the ballpark and arena, and the Riverview project will encompass another, not to mention all the mini "gathering spots" already in existence in Cuyahoga county (E 4th, the Flats, an expanding W 25th, Pinecrest, Crocker Park- just to name a few) We are not LA with the population and the tourists.  Overbuilding will just result in the failure of one or more.

 

Third, as suggested above, if this is the spot Haslam wants, it is a 2 billion dollar complex that he is going to have to build with his own money.  Brookpark certainly cannot offer anything major and I cannot imagine the county having the capacity or desire to offer much either on the Lakefront and especially not on this site as they would not want to piss off Cleveland officials by supporting it.  Maybe a little (and believe me it will just be a little) from the state of Ohio.  If the Haslams can afford to do it on their own, why are the negotiations with the city so contentious? 

 

It is going to be interesting to see how the city and other media outlets respond and report Ken's scoop.

I still can’t find a place to eat without a 2hr wait with our current entertainment districts that said I don’t think I will be traveling to brookpark to put my name in

2 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

This was the absolute perfect location. But the city stood pat with their refusal. Such a shame.

 

What location are you talking about that's owned by the city? 

2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Nothing against Brookpark but I really cannot think of a more depressing (and noisy) spot to but a stadium complex, no matter how elaborate, and no matter how many ancillary attractions are built around it.  

 

Second, how many major "entertainment districts" can NE Ohio support?  Haslam is already planning another one in Berea.  Supposedly the Indians and Cavs want one downtown next to the ballpark and arena, and the Riverview project will encompass another, not to mention all the mini "gathering spots" already in existence in Cuyahoga county (E 4th, the Flats, an expanding W 25th, Pinecrest, Crocker Park- just to name a few) We are not LA with the population and the tourists.  Overbuilding will just result in the failure of one or more.

 

Third, as suggested above, if this is the spot Haslam wants, it is a 2 billion dollar complex that he is going to have to build with his own money.  Brookpark certainly cannot offer anything major and I cannot imagine the county having the capacity or desire to offer much either on the Lakefront and especially not on this site as they would not want to piss off Cleveland officials by supporting it.  Maybe a little (and believe me it will just be a little) from the state of Ohio.  If the Haslams can afford to do it on their own, why are the negotiations with the city so contentious? 

 

It is going to be interesting to see how the city and other media outlets respond and report Ken's scoop.

I brought this point up a long time ago in the Flats thread. With the size of our population, all these separate entertainment districts will just bleed attendance from the others and cause multiple business closures.

5 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Not a KJP level scoop, (and no I can't DM details lol) but I just heard someone involved with the organization that there is an alternative use in mind for the Brook Park parcel. The sole purpose of the purchase was not a stadium 

 

Amazon warehouse as passive income to help pay for Watson?

16 minutes ago, KJP said:

Browns release statement 

The more I reread this the more it comes off as we “appreciate” the effort to analyze a renovation but we want a brand new stadium and we’re willing to do that anywhere in NEO 

Edited February 8, 20241 yr by BoomerangCleRes

4 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

What location are you talking about that's owned by the city? 

From Kens article from 2022:

 

Peter John-Baptiste, senior vice president of communications for the Browns and Haslam Sports Group, said in a brief phone interview that NEOtrans was “a little too far out in front of the story” right now and was not prepared to comment on it. He said the Haslams are continuing to do feasibility studies on the potential of developing up to 70 acres of mostly city-owned lakefront land west of North Coast Harbor and East 9th Street, east of West Third Street and north of the bluff overlooking the railroad tracks. The city is working exclusively with Haslam Sports Group to develop that land.

16 minutes ago, KJP said:

Browns release statement 

Ken you truly are the 800lbs gorilla in NEO’s real estate reporting.  Thank you for all your hard work in keeping us informed.

They build in Brook Park they can pay for it themselves. There is absolutely no return on investment for the tax payer out there. 

Edited February 8, 20241 yr by snakebite

1 minute ago, Sapper Daddy said:

Ken you truly are the 800lbs gorilla in NEO’s real estate reporting.  Thank you for all your hard work in keeping us informed.

 

Omg Ken don't listen to him I think you're in great shape!!! 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

The reason why I don't think it is a leverage move is because no one from the city seemed to know about it. There was also no indication from city hall insiders that the mayor and his chiefs were scrambling to respond. Why make a leverage move and not tell anyone? I suppose anything is possible but it just doesn't sound like it.

Well, something like this may resonate with businesses downtown that will be negatively impacted. This may be the catalyst that gets them involved in persuading the city to work to keep the Browns downtown. 

8 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Not a KJP level scoop, (and no I can't DM details lol) but I just heard someone involved with the organization that there is an alternative use in mind for the Brook Park parcel. The sole purpose of the purchase was not a stadium 

I really don't think that your scoop is that far out there.  The entire time I was reading Ken's article I was thinking that this purchase was for another venture-just a gut feeling-not based on anything other that the Haslams are business people with their fingers in a lot of pies.  Also flush with cash now due to their recent sale.  I am certainly no expert, but might even be a tax move.

they should probably go ahead with the landbridge even if the stadium eventually moves elsewhere. it could be win win. the stadium comes off the lake and developers get much improved access to one of the best waterfront sites in the country to play around with.

2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I really don't think that your scoop is that far out there.  The entire time I was reading Ken's article I was thinking that this purchase was for another venture-just a gut feeling-not based on anything other that the Haslams are business people with their fingers in a lot of pies.  Also flush with cash now due to their recent sale.  I am certainly no expert, but might even be a tax move.

 

Yeah I don't like speculating on these things. It's pointless until we know more info. This could be any number of things and not what everyone just assumes like it's fact. Remember when everyone was upset Sherwin was moving from Cleveland before they built their tower?? These are businesses and we don't know their end goal it's all just leverage or negotiating. 

 

Again not worth speculating I think it's a nothingburger until we get some definitive details. 

1 minute ago, mrnyc said:

they should probably go ahead with the landbridge even if the stadium eventually moves elsewhere. it could be win win. the stadium comes off the lake and developers get much improved access to one of the best waterfront sites in the country to play around with.

Agreed just feels like the economics of the bridge completely changes w/o fan traffic 

24 minutes ago, JB said:

They should have just given them that huge chunk of land on the eastern part of downtown like they wanted. There’s barely anything over there anyways. This is a huge loss for the city.

 

That's not how it works.  There's no huge chuck of land on the eastern part of downtown for the City to just "give" away.

I like to think it was Ken’s repost here that made the browns put out an official statement 

4 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

they should probably go ahead with the landbridge even if the stadium eventually moves elsewhere. it could be win win. the stadium comes off the lake and developers get much improved access to one of the best waterfront sites in the country to play around with.

My thoughts as well.  It would make me sad to see the Browns outside of Cleveland as I would attend far fewer (if any) games, but I'm not convinced that it actually makes sense for them to be downtown or on the lakefront.  

7 minutes ago, X said:

 

That's not how it works.  There's no huge chuck of land on the eastern part of downtown for the City to just "give" away.

Most of what they wanted was city owned land and they balked at selling it. Did you actually think I meant just give it away?

1 minute ago, X said:

 

There's no huge chuck of land on the eastern part of downtown for the City to just "give" away.

Which huge chunk of land of we talking about - the site of the old CEI plant?

19 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

From Kens article from 2022:

 

Peter John-Baptiste, senior vice president of communications for the Browns and Haslam Sports Group, said in a brief phone interview that NEOtrans was “a little too far out in front of the story” right now and was not prepared to comment on it. He said the Haslams are continuing to do feasibility studies on the potential of developing up to 70 acres of mostly city-owned lakefront land west of North Coast Harbor and East 9th Street, east of West Third Street and north of the bluff overlooking the railroad tracks. The city is working exclusively with Haslam Sports Group to develop that land.

 

Okay, that's the north coast harbor area where the stadium is right now. This is the comment you replied to:

 

"They should have just given them that huge chunk of land on the eastern part of downtown like they wanted. There’s barely anything over there anyways. This is a huge loss for the city."

 

There is no massive city owned land east of downtown for them to just "give away".

2 hours ago, ryanfrazier said:

This is good news for the city of Cleveland.  The city's better off with that lakefront land as a 24/7 mixed use neighborhood than a giant structure used 10 days a year.  

Losing the browns via poaching by yet another suburb for the last 70 years has not, is not, and never will be "good news for the city of Cleveland"

Tell me about how losing Voss, medical mutual has been good for Cleveland? 

How freaking long did it take to develop Scranton peninsula? 

Your naive if you think further undeveloping of the lakefront is "good news for Cleveland"

30 minutes ago, BoomerangCleRes said:

Personally regardless of the effort he’s putting in for the riverfront I think that the praise is more with bedrock than Bibb himself so I think he’ll go down as another mayor that lost the browns only difference is in exchange we got another bridge 

Hey, if he refuses to be blackmailed by that criminal, then Bibb gets a thumbs up from me. It would suck to see the Browns play elsewhere, but Cleveland will survive as it does the 355ish days the Browns aren't playing there.

2 hours ago, ryanfrazier said:

This is good news for the city of Cleveland.  The city's better off with that lakefront land as a 24/7 mixed use neighborhood than a giant structure used 10 days a year.  

Losing the browns via poaching by yet another suburb for the last 70 years has not, is not, and never will be "good news for the city of Cleveland"

Tell me about how losing Voss, medical mutual has been good for Cleveland? 

How freaking long did it take to develop Scranton peninsula? 

Your naive if you think further undeveloping of the lakefront is "good news for Cleveland"

Bibb has really been quite something. 

Medical Mutual. Losing out on Parker. Great Lakes Brewing is getting ready to high tail it out of here all the way to Avon. And now the Cleveland Browns. In addition to work from home, downtown is really starting to lose its footing in terms of activity with Bibb. 

 

One other thing. The county and state should no way in hell give Haslam any support for this move. If he wants to go to the 'burbs, let him pay for it. 

4 minutes ago, Mendo said:

 

Okay, that's the north coast harbor area where the stadium is right now. This is the comment you replied to:

 

"They should have just given them that huge chunk of land on the eastern part of downtown like they wanted. There’s barely anything over there anyways. This is a huge loss for the city."

 

There is no massive city owned land east of downtown for them to just "give away".

And all I replied was that it was the perfect location. I did not acknowledge the "give it away" part. You wanna keep going pal?

1 minute ago, GREGinPARMA said:

And all I replied was that it was the perfect location. I did not acknowledge the "give it away" part. You wanna keep going pal?

@Mendono s**t the city wouldn't just "give it away". There was no point in replying to that part. And from what I remember, that location was the Haslams first choice and they tried buying that land and the city refused.

2 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Bibb has really been quite something. 

Medical Mutual. Losing out on Parker. Great Lakes Brewing is getting ready to high tail it out of here all the way to Avon. And now the Cleveland Browns. In addition to work from home, downtown is really starting to lose its footing in terms of activity with Bibb. 

 

One other thing. The county and state should no way in hell give Haslam any support for this move. If he wants to go to the 'burbs, let him pay for it. 

When they leave, will the last institution that made Cleveland such a great city turn off the lights? :(

I am going to look at this as glass half full

 

If this owner of the Browns is frustrated with the government support offered to him he’s going to move within Cuyahoga county not to another Metropolitan area.

 

I just can’t see how this isn’t a “ just in case” plan B or C.  

 

Maybe the price of the property was worth buying as an insurance policy.  Maybe it’ll just be the worlds largest pilot truckstop [Awkward smile]

 

 

7 minutes ago, GREGinPARMA said:

And all I replied was that it was the perfect location. I did not acknowledge the "give it away" part. You wanna keep going pal?

 

I just asked what location east of downtown you were talking about. You quoted something talking about the north coast harbor, which is not east of downtown. Maybe there was some other site you guys were talking about.

Edited February 8, 20241 yr by Mendo

I'm kind of losing my mind here.

 

On 92.3 Daryl Ruiter is saying one of the reasons to move to Brook Park is that the current stadium "has nothing" around it. He's also saying Haslam wants a roof so that the stadium can host a lot more events. Wouldn't a theoretical stadium with roof that hosts a lot more events be best located on the lakefront by our other attractions?

 

A counter to this is of course that subtracting the stadium opens up that huge area for development. I just don't have a ton of faith the powers that be can do that right way. That's why I think better integrating the stadium to its future surroundings is the best way to go.  

The Haslam's may be trying to gain leverage. They are still assembling land for the Brown's practice facility and entertainment venue. Besides, if they somehow manage to get a new "domed" stadium built, then were probably looking at maybe another couple of years before shovels are in the ground and an additional 2 years of construction. there are still a whole lot of moving parts that would have to fall into place before we start to panic. Worst case scenario is that we get a shiny new domed stadium that is 12 miles from downtown with good highway & public transportation connections. Best case scenario is that when the new stadium is built then that would make way for the old stadium to get knocked down to make room for housing, hotels, public parks and other entertainment options. Look at it this way. Between the Guardians, Cavs, the concerts and other events that happen downtown annually. we'll, that's over 230 or more events a year. Additionally, you can include Playhouse sq. into that metric as well and then there is also Cleveland States immanent construction of their new all-purpose arena on its campus which also is not only the home of the CSU Vikings sports teams but also the Cavaliers G-league team the "Charge".  And the " cherry on top" is that there are serious discussions about of the possibility of getting a new professional women's soccer team and stadium built somewhere downtown as well. Cleveland will win out either way!

I think this whole sequence of events is leading up to what many of us thought several months ago....that regardless of final location, that the current stadium's renovation pricetag is too steep to make financial sense, all to continue being left with an older (relative to other markets) open-air stadium that's taking up valuable lakefront real estate. I think (or at least hope) that other Cleveland proper locations are being considered. 

this is a dumb question so I don’t mind being smacked down.

 

Is there any feasibility to this land purchase being able to accommodate air traffic from Burke?

 

If this is possible, then maybe a land swap might be an option.

 

(to bring it back to the conversation - the only land east of downtown I can think of is Burke) 

 

 

10 minutes ago, surfohio said:

I'm kind of losing my mind here.

 

On 92.3 Daryl Ruiter is saying one of the reasons to move to Brook Park is that the current stadium "has nothing" around it. He's also saying Haslam wants a roof so that the stadium can host a lot more events. Wouldn't a theoretical stadium with roof that hosts a lot more events be best located on the lakefront by our other attractions?

 

A counter to this is of course that subtracting the stadium opens up that huge area for development. I just don't have a ton of faith the powers that be can do that right way. That's why I think better integrating the stadium to its future surroundings is the best way to go.  

It is my understanding that the current stadium will not support the weight of a roof.

I would love if Mary Kay Cabot, whom says she has seen the plans for the stadium, could way in where and how the preliminary design is heading. 

Basically if it is an entirely new build or incorporating th existing stadium site could provide insight.

10 minutes ago, 3 Dog Pat said:

this is a dumb question so I don’t mind being smacked down.

 

Is there any feasibility to this land purchase being able to accommodate air traffic from Burke?

 

If this is possible, then maybe a land swap might be an option.

 

(to bring it back to the conversation - the only land east of downtown I can think of is Burke) 

 

 

SoFi Stadium, in Los Angeles, had to be built into the ground to accommodate the height restrictions from LAX flight patterns. I don't know if that site has height limitations.

4 minutes ago, 3 Dog Pat said:

this is a dumb question so I don’t mind being smacked down.

 

Is there any feasibility to this land purchase being able to accommodate air traffic from Burke?

 

If this is possible, then maybe a land swap might be an option.

 

(to bring it back to the conversation - the only land east of downtown I can think of is Burke) 

 

 

 

afaik the burke land is not suitable for development.

 

what are all the sites in play? could someone make a list of them for us? maybe with both known and possible sites?

 

like certainly something along the opportunity corridor would work, no? is the site where the police hq was going to go big enough? any other possible sites along there? or maybe somewhere in midtown?

 

just like the cei site you could more easily build stadium neighborhoods around those places and they could use the big boost.

 

i recall something about at the tri-c rapid stop site was another, no??

 

 

2 hours ago, KJP said:

The reason why I don't think it is a leverage move is because no one from the city seemed to know about it. There was also no indication from city hall insiders that the mayor and his chiefs were scrambling to respond. Why make a leverage move and not tell anyone? I suppose anything is possible but it just doesn't sound like it.

Someone knew. That's why the ped bridge suddenly got funding...

15 minutes ago, ctown60 said:

The Haslam's may be trying to gain leverage. They are still assembling land for the Brown's practice facility and entertainment venue. Besides, if they somehow manage to get a new "domed" stadium built, then were probably looking at maybe another couple of years before shovels are in the ground and an additional 2 years of construction. there are still a whole lot of moving parts that would have to fall into place before we start to panic. Worst case scenario is that we get a shiny new domed stadium that is 12 miles from downtown with good highway & public transportation connections. Best case scenario is that when the new stadium is built then that would make way for the old stadium to get knocked down to make room for housing, hotels, public parks and other entertainment options. Look at it this way. Between the Guardians, Cavs, the concerts and other events that happen downtown annually. we'll, that's over 230 or more events a year. Additionally, you can include Playhouse sq. into that metric as well and then there is also Cleveland States immanent construction of their new all-purpose arena on its campus which also is not only the home of the CSU Vikings sports teams but also the Cavaliers G-league team the "Charge".  And the " cherry on top" is that there are serious discussions about of the possibility of getting a new professional women's soccer team and stadium built somewhere downtown as well. Cleveland will win out either way!

Planes are loud. Very loud. Seems foolish - and they will HAVE to dome the new one with all that noise.